Void Ark... Players are getting sick of Palette Swap Gear.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Everyone who didn't like the extremely stylized Syrcus Tower sets. Or most of the PvP sets. Or those who don't have a hard-on for Blizzard's aesthetics.

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http://i.imgur.com/oR3gyNm.jpg

Aesthetics are a matter of opinion. WoW has a glamour type system too, and I use it extensively. Most of my sets are old gear. Oh, and on the goat with the axe? She's a caster using a staff. Yay transmog.

AND DIABLO as a boss? We're waiting for how long for this patch and it's just regurgitated content. Even the minion 'arena' is a joke. You made a giant room and then are reusing minions to facilitate a team. It's just very disappointing. All of it is just lazy.

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Originally Posted by rblyell

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It has being said that diabolos will have a return.

Honestly im really happy with this, and the gears looks awesome. I see no reason hy everything is saying that is dissapointing

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

It has being said that diabolos will have a return.

Honestly im really happy with this, and the gears looks awesome. I see no reason hy everything is saying that is dissapointing

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If Diabolos is a boss and has a phase change that makes his appearance change similar to this, I'm perfectly fine with it. But if he's a boss and has the exact same model except his horns pointing up, I'll call lazy on this one. We get 4 bosses only, to reuse an entire boss is lazy in my book.

I don't mind palette swaps in the slightest as long as the armors themselves look good, and the Void set looks good to me. I'm glad they're keeping it simple, too. I can't stand the aesthetics of games where the armor looks like foam-core cosplay bait.

I just...I just want healer gear that isn't white. So many sets seem to be white versions of caster gear, and half the time the caster version just looks way better.

The Question to the Item Team Lead thread is still taking questions; feel free to ask them why they keep making healers and casters just a lazy palette swap for gear.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Aesthetics are a matter of opinion. WoW has a glamour type system too, and I use it extensively. Most of my sets are old gear. Oh, and on the goat with the axe? She's a caster using a staff. Yay transmog.

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I'm aware that's the case. I fall in with the people who don't enjoy the Blizzard Aesthetic though. Ergo, I like the simplistic (but still unique) style of the Void Ark sets. Much like I enjoyed the WoD sets, but didn't care for the ridiculous ST/CT sets. With a few exceptions in the later.

I too wish for a more extensive glamour system. Although I don't think glamouring weapons across jobs is something I'd like. Or feasible.

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Originally Posted by From another thread

I don't want this game to be full of old costumes when we can have new original ones.

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Top kek. Well, at least it's new I suppose.

Got tired of palette swaps ... oooooooh I don't even remember anymore. Several patches before 2.x even concluded. So yeah, too long ago. -_-
And

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Originally Posted by Cidel

The Question to the Item Team Lead thread is still taking questions; feel free to ask them why they keep making healers and casters just a lazy palette swap for gear.

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...it's not like we have to ask them why. I think everyone understands why it's good from a dev/design point of view, that's not the point here. The point is that it should stop (or at the very least, decrease), but it likely won't exactly because it's easy to do, takes less time, eases the workload on the small dev team, etc - those old chestnuts, y'know.

I'm bored with healer and caster outfit. They keep making curtain robe until now... (And yet, dungeon item still not dyeable) :mad:

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

I think everyone understands why it's good from a dev/design point of view, that's not the point here. The point is that it should stop (or at the very least, decrease), but it likely won't exactly because it's easy to do, takes less time, eases the workload on the small dev team, etc - those old chestnuts, y'know.

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I like these sorta "boo-hoo the poor dev team" style posts. Tell me, what sort of compensation are you willing to offer in exchange for overworking them?

And this doesn't apply to you only. Everyone, feel free to have a go.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Tell me, what sort of compensation are you willing to offer in exchange for overworking them?

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... My subscription fee?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

... My subscription fee?

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You're already paying for what you get as far as the Devs are concerned. Or do you mean you're willing to pay more?

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

You're already paying for what you get as far as the Devs are concerned. Or do you mean you're willing to pay more?

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Sometimes I wonder just how much of a grasp some people have on what maintaining data centers and development teams entails. Not to mention all the peripheral costs of a global business and such.

That sub doesn't go quite as far as some may think it does.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

I like these sorta "boo-hoo the poor dev team" style posts. Tell me, what sort of compensation are you willing to offer in exchange for overworking them?

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And I like this sort of "you're not entitled to get anything" style posts.

No, but bickering aside - are you seriously not tired of all the excuses we've been served since ... launch, pretty? Hardware this, small team that, too much work, no time to focus on - that's pretty much the list, and these things come up again and again, with about every (second) thing we dare to suggest or request. Honestly. It boggles my mind - we pay our subs, it's their job to work on this game, they get paid for it... And yet so many times we hear crying about how much they have to work, and nobody's bothered by it?
Sure the schedule might be too punishing, Japanese work ethics might be too over-the-top - but those are not things we can affect. Those are things they should work out for themselves. Those shouldn't be reasons for us to have to question where our money's going to. If it's simply not enough - say so. If they need more money - increase the sub fees (as I've already said in another thread).

As for data centers and global business costs - again, those should not be our concerns. That's what the suits higher up are for, they should be the ones to figure those out.

I never see them crying. I see them asking for their player base to understand their position. Which everyone who whines about not getting a unique snowflake set (for all 12 classes in every implementation of new armor) doesn't seem to.

Your expectation is for them to work longer/harder for the same pay they already receive. That isn't feasible.

And expenses for server maintenance aren't our concern? Really? Considering us playing the game and our idiotic player migration habits are the reasons many servers and data centers get over taxed, I'd say it is our concern.

And raising sub fees isn't necessarily an option. The point of this game existing is to make money for Square Enix as a whole. If increasing the price drives a bunch of players away, that has the potential to only break even. Or even lose money. Which places them in a worse situation, potentially resulting in budget cuts.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

I never see them crying. I see them asking for their player base to understand their position. Which everyone who whines about not getting a unique snowflake set (for all 12 classes in every implementation of new armor) doesn't seem to.

Your expectation is for them to work longer/harder for the same pay they already receive. That isn't feasible.

And expenses for server maintenance aren't our concern? Really? Considering us playing the game and our idiotic player migration habits are the reasons many servers and data centers get over taxed, I'd say it is our concern.

And raising sub fees isn't necessarily an option. The point of this game existing is to make money for Square Enix as a whole. If increasing the price drives a bunch of players away, that has the potential to only break even. Or even lose money. Which places them in a worse situation, potentially resulting in budget cuts.

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Can't say I expect them to increase their work hours, just to hire more staff. Tell me, why has their development team size remained exactly the same, while their profits increased over with the increase in subscriptions, cash shop and the release of Heavensward? FFXIV and their mobile games have singlehandedly made SE profitable again, why do we not see further investment into this game? Because they're off throwing money away on senseless 10 year projects that will do nothing but disappoint. I hope SE doesn't wander why they're almost always in the red.

Making SE profitable? Not really. They were deep in the red due to 1.0's horrendous failure. XI was basically keeping them afloat. And actually still provides a decent source of income. Everything successful since then was recovery. XIV is still currently making up for the cost of 1.0 and 2.0's production.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Making SE profitable? Not really. They were deep in the red due to 1.0's horrendous failure. XI was basically keeping them afloat. And actually still provides a decent source of income. Everything successful since then was recovery. XIV is still currently making up for the cost of 1.0 and 2.0's production.

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Well for one, who's to blame for 1.0's failure? SE's management for rushing it out the door in order to "compete" with WoW's cataclysm. Oh how well that worked out for them, I think they've learnt from that. I was going to post about the approximate amount that they've made, but considering we have no reliable subscription numbers I can't do that. Here's an article with enough information so we can get the idea that yes, FFXIV is what's now keeping them afloat.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Making SE profitable? Not really. They were deep in the red due to 1.0's horrendous failure. XI was basically keeping them afloat. And actually still provides a decent source of income. Everything successful since then was recovery. XIV is still currently making up for the cost of 1.0 and 2.0's production.

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Baseless speculation.

Neither you nor I know how much was spent on remaking XIV nor how much it has brought in for profits/expendatures. What we do know for a fact is that despite it's lower subscription base FFXI has been quoted by Square Enix to be one of it's most profitable games period.

Hell SE has posted PROFITS the last two years I'm unsure where your cooperate appolagist "We are in the red" is coming from.

It costs 200-300k a year for the electricity just to keep a single blade server running 24/7....and that is a conservative figure based on only 330watts. That doesn't account for added cost of cooling, man-hours for maintenance, licensing or other contracts (like renewable service contracts with a company like IBM or something).

There is a long laundry list of things that factor into the costs incurred to keep large scale server FARMS online 24/7. It is FAR from a trivial point to be made in the scope of our $13-15 a month. I pay 3 times that for my freaking 15meg internet connection FFS. My car wash club is $35 a month and that is considered a BARGAIN down here.

Just saying...such arguments about subs should more than cover new development are never put in the proper perspective.

It doesn't matter who's to blame. The fact of the matter is, it's money that needs to be made back. End of story.

Keeping them afloat doesn't mean it's making actual profit. That article mentions nothing about where that money is being directed. I doubt much, if any, is going into the companies reserve coffers.

Saying they're making profit is like saying the United States is making a profit while they're still billions of dollars in debt.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Baseless speculation.

Neither you nor I know how much was spent on remaking XIV nor how much it has brought in for profits/expendatures. What we do know for a fact is that despite it's lower subscription base FFXI has been quoted by Square Enix to be one of it's most profitable games period.

Hell SE has posted PROFITS the last two years I'm unsure where your cooperate appolagist "We are in the red" is coming from.

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Last time this discussion came up SE was still down over the longer term though. As of close of FY 2014, they were still down something like 20% or so from close of FY 2010.

Haven't looked at their 2015 numbers yet....but statistically over a longer view there is an argument to be made for them being in the red from an investor's perspective

So until they fully recover in the long view of things, they will likely continue to try to run as lean as possible.

The data is out there through their holding site if you want to go digging for it. May be some mid-term slides and PDF's released soon with 2015 data if it isn't already up.

Edit:. Just glancing at the August data, they were showing gains and were projecting north of 30% gains by 03/16. But that is only based on 3 months of data into this FY...and they still haven't climbed out of the massive hole they dug in 2013 (they posted big losses that year...wonder why?). And who knows if or how accurately the EU server farm is factored into the operating cost projections either. But, based on the posted data, it does look like they are poised to finally offset 2013 this year though. But...even then they are still behind on the 5 year scale. So our monthly sub's don't appear to hold as much value as some like to assign to them.

Why is everyone getting mad about the gear now? They showed previews for several sets in their last live letter, it was pretty apparent the gear sets were all going to be very similar, but no one said anything.

Now it's far too late for anything to be done.

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Originally Posted by Selli

They showed previews for several sets in their last live letter, it was pretty apparent the gear sets were all going to be very similar, but no one said anything.

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I remember liking the sets they showed in the Live Letter (I believe it was caster, DRG or tank, and the apparent BRD/MCH one), and I still like those in particular. My issues are with the sets we didn't see. NIN and MNK are again palette-swaps of one another (and rather lackluster outside of that), and the healer set is a palette-swap of the caster set. Palette swaps are going to be inevitable in any MMO, but it would be nice for the swaps to get passed around a bit more often.

DRG has often gotten a unique or at least partially unique set (the Void Ark set looks like a modified version of the tank set, what without the skirt and all), while NIN almost always shares a set with either MNK or BRD/MCH (and sometimes both), and healer and caster are almost always shared. (DRG does seem to be sharing with tank more often in HW, admittedly, but they had a number of unique sets in ARR.)

While we're on the topic, though it's probably too late for it now, can we have pants on the tank set please? Do not want dresses on tank gear. They toned back on the buttcapes at least and went for long coats/robes this time, but I really am not fond of the dress. I will say I particularly enjoy the helmet though.

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Originally Posted by Selli

Why is everyone getting mad about the gear now? They showed previews for several sets in their last live letter, it was pretty apparent the gear sets were all going to be very similar, but no one said anything.

Now it's far too late for anything to be done.

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To be fair not everyone saw the live letter, not every player watches those things. Also, the previews we got now showed all of the sets as opposed to the live letter that only showed some.

I'm not that bothered tbh.

if they give them all different designs the player will just complain that x looks better then y, y wants to quit because of that etc.

everytime the same nonsense, glamour it if you dont like the style =w=

I want different looking gear for all Jobs , especially for MONK ! *write it down on your hand SE*

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

if they give them all different designs the player will just complain that x looks better then y, y wants to quit because of that etc.

everytime the same nonsense, glamour it if you dont like the style =w=

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Because they're not already complaining now? If they don't want players to complain, make it a token based system and let any class glamour any other set that they can't equip. Don't like the Monk/Ninja gear? Equip the DRG one. For gear that's worthless on your main and a patch that brings no major progression to the table other than glamour, I'd appreciate glamour choices that I actually liked the look of.

The palette swap is a good point, but the black theme of the gear fits with the Void Ark, so that's okay with me. Not like every gear that SE comes out with is always black.

Despite not caring for how the gear sets look, my complaint is not towards that. It is making simply palette swaps for roles like Scouting - Striking or Casting - Healing. Reusing palettes is perfectly fine for dungeon gear, however for major content people will be spending weeks to months to obtain (24 main raid and 8 man raids), you really should be putting a little more effort to make sure each gear set looks unique in it's own right. At best for HW, the end game gear seems fine but uninspired. Only AF so far truly stands out.

Also as someone has pointed out, there are starting to become multiple jobs per one gear set now. Most aiming gear is definitely designed with BRD's in mind. MCH are also part of this now and the only real notable MCH looking gear so far is the AF itself and the ilvl160 gear. Not saying to go the other extreme, but they should take into mind that there are multiple jobs to this set.

You do know it isn't always Scouting-Striking. Scouting tends to be palette swaps of Striking or Aiming, but it also happens that Aiming sometimes palette swaps with Maiming or Striking. The point is there's always been palette swaps as far back as 1.0 (Darklight says "Hi") and yet so few actually complain about it. The biggest complaints I've seen are reusing armor models and they've been doing a pretty good job keeping the sets unique enough that they aren't incessantly reusing assets. And no, the leveling sets in Heavensward doesn't count because those were mostly glamour bait.

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Originally Posted by Einheri

IMO there are too many sets bogging down the loot tables. One set of class specific armor is fine per season.
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That's 6 sets of armor. Currently they would need to make 13 sets for each class to have there own.

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Well, that's not really the point of this thread. Plus, they already have separate gearsets (apart from casters, tanks, healers and ranged having shared gearsets)... it's just that visually a lot of them look the same apart from colour.
Caster and healer gearsets share the same look.
MNK and NIN gearsets share the same look -- though sometimes it's been MNK and DRG or even MNK and NIN and DRG.

And now with Void Ark, it seems tanks share the same look (apart from the skirt) as DRG.

Having different looks for all seven gearsets doesn't mean they bog down the loot tables any more than they do today.

I understand the need to save valuable time, especially as I've heard that Japanese work ethics kind of don't care how long it takes to get something done, as long as it gets done by a certain date -- if that means overtime and loads of stress, it doesn't matter as long as they get the desired result. If that's true (and not just horror stories), then I can certainly understand wanting to take shortcuts. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean that said shortcuts -- like easy palette swaps for various gearsets, instead of designing an entirely separate gearset -- doesn't get annoying every time they happen ^^;

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Originally Posted by Eul

I'm bored with healer and caster outfit. They keep making curtain robe until now... (And yet, dungeon item still not dyeable) :mad:

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This time it is long coats, not robes

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2qukd1y.jpg

Search the forums guys, this "layziness" has been frowned upon by the community for years (including threads of yours truly). I believe we got a vague response once. They basically don't have time to design gear because of the patches that have to drop every 3ish months.

I just hope SE will give us more exciting gear. The recycle-method is real unfortunately. It needs to stop.

I am not sure if i recall correctly, but they had plans to create a system so we could use parts from other classes into our own, to create more 'unique' sets..

Then the problem would be solved!

Would love to see my PLD with a Jet Black Hoodie ^^

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Search the forums guys, this "layziness" has been frowned upon by the community for years (including threads of yours truly). I believe we got a vague response once. They basically don't have time to design gear because of the patches that have to drop every 3ish months.

I just hope SE will give us more exciting gear. The recycle-method is real unfortunately. It needs to stop.

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I agree with you, they have to hire one more person to that gear design department, he'll have 3 months to think about new clothes for all jobs. in 5 years that will be clothes for 50 different jobs, so he might ask for a raise lol

Like I said, glamouring the Orison set for the rest of my FFXIV life.