so their is no point in playing some jobs?

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10-08-2015, 07:32 AM
Seku

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoodRat

This is probably the funniest thing I've read all week.

Funniest thing because sadly it's true. ='(

Quote:

Originally Posted by rappa

PLD was behind DRK and WAR in Progression with lack of gear.
Now, with all 200/210 items around, bring pld-drk or war is not a big difference.
.

And the entire reason for progression is to get said gear that they lack. Having everyone else get said gear and then go back means that the job has flaws. And no there are still some pretty big differences....
10-08-2015, 08:51 PM
rappa

Instead of Progression i would write "first world/continent" kills.

Party A is doing 6100 dps with team ilvl media: 195 ilvl

Party B is doing 5800 dps with team ilvl media: 202 ilvl

Something is going wrong in Party B. Having a pld instead a drk don't make a 300 dps lost to get the kill.
- One or a few dps is not pulling their weights
- One healer or both healers are not dpsing.
- Tanks are more focused to don't die than stance dance.
10-08-2015, 10:29 PM
RiceisNice

Quote:

Originally Posted by rappa

Instead of Progression i would write "first world/continent" kills.

Party A is doing 6100 dps with team ilvl media: 195 ilvl

Party B is doing 5800 dps with team ilvl media: 202 ilvl

Something is going wrong in Party B. Having a pld instead a drk don't make a 300 dps lost to get the kill.
- One or a few dps is not pulling their weights
- One healer or both healers are not dpsing.
- Tanks are more focused to don't die than stance dance.

Regardless of if it's progression or not, PLD is still objectively the lesser of the two MT to bring into A4S. Whether or not it's contingent on getting a clear (and it shouldn't on relevant gear), the fact remains.
10-08-2015, 11:33 PM
rappa

I don't say the pld is in equal than others tanks. Obviously PLD as job is slacking on damage and more "magic" reduction. But that "penalty" is solved with gear in your others party members.

The excuse "we don't kill a boss because we have a PLD in a encounter as Bismark Extreme/Ravana/Faust/Oppresor/Living Liquid with players wearing Eso wep" is silly and they ignore the main reason of the problem, the dps damage is low than theirs gear could do.
10-09-2015, 03:09 AM
HoodRat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seku

Funniest thing because sadly it's true. ='(

Funniest thing because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
10-09-2015, 08:44 AM
Jim_Berry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viviza

The point is to play a job you enjoy.

Yep! Took me a while to grasp this, since I was trying to please folks. Now, I'm breezy.
10-09-2015, 08:51 AM
Jim_Berry

The thing that bugs me about the "PLD lack damage" is that in other MMOs, many tanks aren't expected to be a damage dealer. In DC Universe, for example, if there is content where people feel they need more damage, they replace the tank role for a dps role. Sadly, this will only grant wipes in FFXIV if you went with a DPS instead of tank.

I just wish this community wasn't so sour. We had good times back in the day. Now, it's "wahh wahh wahh".
10-09-2015, 09:36 PM
Cheraa

That's the issue you will always have, if you have to much Tank jobs. Even if SE Buffs the PLD in 3.1 at the correct spots, the chances are high that then WAR or DRK will fall behind.
Does it matter?
Well, for world/contintent first, sure. For all others? Not so much at all. Even though, that it should be a no-go that Tank and Healer DPS must be considered into Enrage timers.
10-09-2015, 10:17 PM
AeirTalies

Ninja works just fine for me on PC, and PS4. I suffer from no lag at all.
As for the Bard I cant really speak for, but the Paladin is working as intended. It's DPS although the worst of the 3 tanks, I feel like it's the best beginner tanking experience. You have the easiest skill set which allows beginners to the game, and beginners to the role a chance to learn basics of tanking. You're flooded with a ton of Cooldowns to help keep you alive. Although I've yet to do Savage Alexander, I can say that the Paladin hardly suffers. DPS is only a tanks secondary role, and no DPS should ever complain about a tank unless that tank fails to hold hate, which is entirely up to the players skill; not the DPS being dished.
Should you level these Jobs? completely up to you.

Right now it seems Summoner is the god tier of DPS but I must say, playing a Ninja I am constantly complimented on my dps rates in pretty much every daily roulette, trial, and so on so-forth.
10-10-2015, 12:53 AM
Ryythe

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeirTalies

Right now it seems Summoner is the god tier of DPS but I must say, playing a Ninja I am constantly complimented on my dps rates in pretty much every daily roulette, trial, and so on so-forth.

With an i180 weapon, what is your dps like?
10-10-2015, 01:17 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werhusky

MCH - is just horribly weak

Care to elaborate on this? Last I recall MCH do pretty amazing in the DPS department.
10-10-2015, 01:30 AM
fm_fenrir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

Care to elaborate on this? Last I recall MCH do pretty amazing in the DPS department.

MCH is a god for exactly 15 seconds every 90. The rest of the time you just sort of stand there cast-blasting split shot hoping for a proc on slug.
Edit: Why did I reply to this? You already know how it works...
10-10-2015, 01:36 AM
Dante_V

I've seen MCH that put 90% ofthe dps in this game to shame. Classes are only as good as their players, all classes with no player do zero dps.
10-10-2015, 01:47 AM
Ryythe

Quote:

Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

MCH is a god for exactly 15 seconds every 90. The rest of the time you just sort of stand there cast-blasting split shot hoping for a proc on slug.
Edit: Why did I reply to this? You already know how it works...

Extremely inaccurate. You should play the class at a competitive level before you spout this garbage lol.
10-10-2015, 01:53 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

MCH is a god for exactly 15 seconds every 90. The rest of the time you just sort of stand there cast-blasting split shot hoping for a proc on slug.
Edit: Why did I reply to this? You already know how it works...

Whoever plays with this mind set clearly does not know how to utilize their abilities properly.
10-10-2015, 02:39 AM
DarkmoonVael

Quote:

Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

MCH is a god for exactly 15 seconds every 90. The rest of the time you just sort of stand there cast-blasting split shot hoping for a proc on slug.
Edit: Why did I reply to this? You already know how it works...

This is just wrong. Like flat out, misinformed wrong. For wildfire, you have the highest burst of any class in the game currently. When not in wildfire, you have very good sustained dps. Also scary high burst aoe dps when correctly using cooldowns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

Care to elaborate on this? Last I recall MCH do pretty amazing in the DPS department.

I believe, reading their post, Werhusky was giving a very sarcastic responses based on gross reductivism, kind of showing if you boil all the classes down like some people do in the forums, they can all be described with a glowing weakness rather than what they are good at. (I may be absolutely wrong, but thats how it read to me). :).
10-10-2015, 03:37 AM
Kuroyasha

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeirTalies

... DPS is only a tanks secondary role, and no DPS should ever complain about a tank unless that tank fails to hold hate, which is entirely up to the players skill; not the DPS being dished....

Ehhh not exactly. Tanks need to be doing good dps too. "good" for tanks won't be the same number as "good" for dps but it still needs to be good on the progression stuff. Yoshi noted in an interview ( i believe i read the translation on blugartr.com, back when 3.0 was either close to release, or just released) that they tune the boss fights with the tank dps in mind, not just the DPS' dps. They don't, however, include healer dps in the tuning (he stated the reasons why, but I don't remember them clearly enough off the top of my head). Thus, if a tank is doing bad dps, it should be noted, just like anyone else's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante_V

I've seen MCH that put 90% ofthe dps in this game to shame. Classes are only as good as their players, all classes with no player do zero dps.

^ got connections, knows 90% of the dps in the game.
10-10-2015, 04:37 AM
SpookyGhost

Quote:

Originally Posted by rappa

I don't say the pld is in equal than others tanks. Obviously PLD as job is slacking on damage and more "magic" reduction. But that "penalty" is solved with gear in your others party members.

Hey. Hi. You're kinda right here, but you're also largely wrong.

Gear will solve literally any imbalance issue you have, this is true. However WARs could tank T5 in full i90 in 2.0 - does that mean that the balance adjustments weren't necessary in 2.1? In fact, would you deem any job balance change necessary since anything that a job lacks (health, damage, mitigation, healing, etc) will eventually be boosted to average levels with gear (while those that didn't need the gear will only get boosted further)?

The key to balance is having all jobs within a category able to clear X content in the same gear. Currently, PLD can't. So what does PLD need? A buff. Hope that clears things up.

Also, just to clarify, PLD does not give your healers more time to DPS in magical fights, which Savage is literally filled to the brim with. Hallowed is the only +DPS a healer can possibly get out of a PLD, and that's only if they can't get those same GCDs from Living Dead.

All that said, PLD is fine for right now. PLD can do literally anything outside of Savage in the same gear as the other 2 tanks. Savage is the only problem for PLD, and only if you have low gear. This applies to any imbalanced job - have more gear, clear more content.

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