Adventurer in Need in Roulette, do you think it needs to change up a bit?

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

SE doesn't really pick the adventurer in need though... we do! If there were more tanks queueing for roulette more of the time, then it would change to something else. It's only there to try and get those missing roles to be filled in to help decrease our queue times.

If they're going to start changing that to something other than what is actually needed, then they need to rename it as well (like "Bonus Role" or something).

Personally I think they to boost the bonus more although I doubt that'd encourage more people to tank (or just be the missing role, but like you said, it's pretty much always tank).

Edit: People just don't want to do roles they don't want to do, so unless it's a massive bonus they're not going to (and if it was there would be threads complaining about how the tank gets too much of a bonus all the time etc)

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Totally agreed here. Unfortunately, the tank and healer roles are heavy with responsibility and burden. In order to get more people to take it up, the benefits would need to be unbelievably good (by comparison to DPS), as you've said. I'd say maybe.. a minimum of half (ideally full) what is currently offered as a daily expert reward given would be enough to motivate some change quickly and meaningfully. It's just like real life. If you want people to properly take on more responsibilities, they need to be properly incentivized. Raising someones pay by a dollar to do twice the work isn't exactly going to be something employees will line up for.

Of course, this also means that the highest tier tome of the time would have to be uncapped, in order to benefit from this and not make it worse (due to being able to faster hit said cap). I think that's a change a lot of folks wouldn't mind having, despite apprehensions. They could always go the route of some random reward based on RNG giving you something meaningful at a low chance. Like maybe mounts, minions, glamour, etc. Imagine the bag having a possibility for the Alex mount, Fenrir, or some very expensive minion. That might influence a decent amount of people to queue more often without a need to uncap tomes. The impact may not be as much as the tomes thing though. People will always complain because the grass is always greener. Take for example this entire topic. Even with the petty rewards, it comes to light lol.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

So... because offering a reward isn't attracting a large amount of tanks into the queue you're suggesting removing the reward entirely to stop the remaining tanks who actually do take advantage of it from bothering to queue?

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When something fails its intended purpose its time to modify it, change it, get rid of it, whatever. I personally could care less what it does. As mentioned before once you max level it no longer gives exp, just gill and seals. I've capped seals a thousand times over and the gil bonus, whatever. I could do a FATE get more seals and probably sell what ever I got from a monster drop for about the same. Its not productive if it doesn't produce positive results.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

When something fails its intended purpose its time to modify it, change it, get rid of it, whatever.

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So long the role in need bonus attract at least 1 tank and don't increase the amount of classes not in need it fulfill it purpose. To increase the amount of attracted needed classes the reward have to increase, not the system have to get rid so it decrease the amount of needed classes in the queue even further.

Maybe an additional bonus like doubled normal daily reward (of course also only once each day) minus the roulette exp.

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Originally Posted by Felis

So long the role in need bonus attract at least 1 tank

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Adding to the cesspit known as the DF. A real tank is going to que it anyways. A person playing tank just for the bonus then in turn probably is sub-par as it is not their main adding to the DF attitude, adding to why there are countless posts about why people don't que the DF anyways. I only run dungeons as a tank but if I didn't, I would rather have someone tanking that wants to be there and isn't just there for the bonus.

So... going on that thought, yes dump the bonus, it attracts undesirables to the class and it may give the real tanks a bad image...oh wait......

When heavensward came the Adventurer in Need was DPS for quiet a while. Why? Because no one wanted to play MCH but many people focused on the remaining new classes: tank and healer. When the excitement died down, things went back to normal and Tanks were the Adventurers in Need again.

I don't have a tank but my SO plays tanks and refuses to tank for DF. Why? because more often than not, the groups suck. I am not talking about learning your class and new skills, I am genuinely talking about sucky players: 1-2-3 DPS, healers that are too busy dps-ing or don't have their priorities set and most of all BAD TANKS.

The bad tank influx was especially noticable during the beginning of heavensward. Players suddenly wanted to play Dark Knights because they are the dark and emo characters - but they had never touched a tank before. My SO and me leave dungeons more often than not because the tank sucks and unless you have neverending patience and like abuse, many tanks will not touch DF.

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Originally Posted by Chessala

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Good tank can carry whole group. If your SO is good he/she should play tank, if he/she is not that leave it as its now.

Why?
I am maining healer but when I do expert as always come as warrior.

Because?
I can make dungeon fast paced.
I can improve dps of whole party a lot (I tend to do even more dps as dpses there :D)
As warrior master race I can even heal myself if healer is bad.
In the end I must say that I never had problem in df dungeon when I go as tank.

So tell your SO that maybe not only group suck, group can suck, but if YOU are tank, everything is allright in df dungeons.

Anyway healers are capable of dps, there is almost nothing to heal in dungeons, so healing is usually boring when you dont dps. Maybe if your SO playing tank he/she should also look into defensive cooldown rotation and usage. In the end you can download ACT and if you are died you can check your death report and you will see last 9 second of your life = incoming heals and incoming damage, so you can exactly see if there was heals on your or no.

Honestly I dont care what you throw at me (Okay maybe 1mil gil a run lol) I refuse to tank for DF unless I am in a really good mood. Otherwise it is for FC only and even then its all the 50 or less stuff as I havn't leveled my Warrior past 50.

Maybe OP thinks there's a conspiracy with the adventure in need bonus going on.


Its its not true I tell you you can believe me.


(maybe)

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Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

Good tank can carry whole group. If your SO is good he/she should play tank, if he/she is not that leave it as its now.

Anyway healers are capable of dps, there is almost nothing to heal in dungeons, so healing is usually boring when you dont dps. Maybe if your SO playing tank he/she should also look into defensive cooldown rotation and usage. In the end you can download ACT and if you are died you can check your death report and you will see last 9 second of your life = incoming heals and incoming damage, so you can exactly see if there was heals on your or no.

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Of course the tank can suck as well (that was one of the points I made). My SO is a good tank (good for me: keeps aggro without issues, doesn't run around like a chicken, sets a good pace) but why would my SO have to carry 2 sucky dps through the dungeon (I am usually the healer)? I know I wouldn't do it. Learn to play before you queue (in higher lvl content).

For the healer: yes, healers are capable od dps-ing but not every healer is capable of handling both. They get so locked into dps-ing that they miss when healing is needed. That is what i talk about. A good healer can judge when healing is necessary and when dps-ing is possible. A bad healer doesn't have that ability.

The dps DO get a bonus.
It's called 'Faster Queue Times'.

Fact is the bonus in roulette is inconsequential and likely does very, very little to attract healers and tanks. It doesn't work.

Rather than reward gil, xp and tomes, I'd suggest a new classification of reputation be rewarded for participating as a needed adventurer (maybe in addition to the existing awards). At certain thresholds, these could be exchanged for glamour-type rewards, a special mount or minion, etc.

People don't queue as tank because of the community and because the role carries a lot of responsibility.
Healers are not quite as rare, but if there were more tanks around, they'd be the best candidate to get the bonus.

DDs? Not so much.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Fact is the bonus in roulette is inconsequential and likely does very, very little to attract healers and tanks. It doesn't work.

Rather than reward gil, xp and tomes, I'd suggest a new classification of reputation be rewarded for participating as a needed adventurer (maybe in addition to the existing awards). At certain thresholds, these could be exchanged for glamour-type rewards, a special mount or minion, etc.

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If they did this I'd be tanking up a storm in DF. Glamour and minions are motivations that shouldn't be undervalued :D

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

When something fails its intended purpose its time to modify it, change it, get rid of it, whatever. [...] Its not productive if it doesn't produce positive results.

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Would it be possible for you to share the data that you've collected that indicates that the Adventurer in Need bonus does not reduce queue times?

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Fact is the bonus in roulette is inconsequential and likely does very, very little to attract healers and tanks. It doesn't work.

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At the 50 cap, the Adventurer in Need bonus was always the determining factor as to what job I queued with when running roulettes.

It will be at 60 also, once I have something other than a tank leveled.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Would it be possible for you to share the data that you've collected that indicates that the Adventurer in Need bonus does not reduce queue times?

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Sure, you wanna come over and hang out, we'll get some beers and discuss it. I don't believe I said it reduced que times. I think someone else mentioned it was there to get more people to play as a tank (don't feel like going back and reading all the posts) In which I responded it is not really working as tanks are always needed because no one is queing them. Then it was mentioned about people just queing as a tank to get the bonus which again is a fail. People who aren't really tanks playing and making the DF even more hostile, something like that anyways.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

it is not really working as tanks are always needed because no one is queing them.

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I facetiously asked to see your data, because this is 100% speculation on your part.

Let's say I have ten groups that need tanks, so the AiN bonus is for tanks. Five people queue as tank as a result. Now I have five groups that need tanks, so even though the AiN bonus worked (five people queued as tank because of it), I still need five more tanks, so the AiN bonus is still for tanks.

It's possible to have the bonus be working perfectly (reducing queue times over all) and to still have a single role be the needed role.

>__> honestly the AiN bonus is where I get my gil. After furnishing my house I've stopped gathering/playing the MB and rarely have more than 300k XD

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Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

Good tank can carry whole group. If your SO is good he/she should play tank, if he/she is not that leave it as its now.

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Can I carry a group? Sure. Do I want to? Hell no. My back hurts. People should at least try to pull their own weight. The number of DPS that I've seen in DF that just aren't even trying is sad. You have the easiest role and you even want to be crappy at that. Okay.

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Originally Posted by kazeandi

People don't queue as tank because of the community and because the role carries a lot of responsibility.
Healers are not quite as rare, but if there were more tanks around, they'd be the best candidate to get the bonus.

DDs? Not so much.

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Pretty much this. Tanks can't win even with gear. VIT gear? "Wow scrub, get STR gear." STR gear? "God put on some VIT gear so I can DPS." Melded gear? "Lol look at this dumbass with his i150 crap. Must be nice to have more gil than sense." People in general are so needlessly vitriolic that I don't like queueing tank for DF unless I'm in at least a partial premade.

I think people should be able to class change in dungeon assuming that class hasn't been filled. I have a DPS, Tank, and a healer leveled. I can't count how many times I wanted to switch class just so we could continue a dungeon. I'd assume others would have done the same if able. Its a lot easier to find a dps in need.

In terms of the reward, I think it should be higher for grand company seals. It's fairly high already for leveling roulette which is great. Those seals are IMO best reward. Not to mention a ton of them are required for relic upgrade.

Looks like it's already been brought up a few times, but it bears repeating.

There is one and only one case in which the Adventurer in Need bonus should change to DPS or Healer.

When the adventurer most needed is DPS or Healer.

That's it. The AiN bonus is intended to encourage folks to queue on those types of jobs because there aren't enough of those types of jobs queued up. Randomizing it so that sometimes AiN goes to a role that the queues are already glutted with makes no sense at all. There's nothing fair or unfair about it: AiN is usually tanks, because tanks are usually the most needed. That's it.

You don't usually see DPS in need, because DPS are typcially not in need. There's plenty - way too many, to be honest!

This isn't rocket science! I'm fine with the idea of randomly rewarding one role or another just for funzies, but that should be a seperate bonus. Adventurer in Need, should go to the adventurer we need, not to the adventurer we don't need.

When HW was first released, the first 5 days DF said AIN was DPS. You should have took advantage of those 5 days, as we wont see that again until they make a new tank/healer job.

DPS have the least responsibility in the group and you want to reward them for AIN even though they arent AIN. Thats just silly.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

I facetiously asked to see your data, because this is 100% speculation on your part.

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Of course it is, so isn't the majority of posts that make up this forum, opinions. So no on the beer then? Though the obvious fact is the game lacks DF tanks, we know this and it seems no amount of bonus will get the better tanks to que it. So the weekend warriors fill those ranks for a measly "bonus". I guess I could try and take a poll to see how many DF tanks que it just for the bonus and if it wasn't there would they still que. I'll just speculate in my mind the answer though mainly because it actually makes no difference to me since I main a tank and don't have to put up with weekend warriors anyways.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

I facetiously asked to see your data, because this is 100% speculation on your part.

Let's say I have ten groups that need tanks, so the AiN bonus is for tanks. Five people queue as tank as a result. Now I have five groups that need tanks, so even though the AiN bonus worked (five people queued as tank because of it), I still need five more tanks, so the AiN bonus is still for tanks.

It's possible to have the bonus be working perfectly (reducing queue times over all) and to still have a single role be the needed role.

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Honestly though, I'd wager that the AiN, how it is right now, is the equivalent of giving a dollar to someone in the community and claiming you've made a change for your entire community as a whole lol. That dollar is going to be put in circulation, stimulating the economy. It's doing the intended purpose, but the impact is severely lacking. It's really not much different than how it was before AiN. I think that'd be the proof you need, at least from a general community basis. Again, it might have impacted the overall AiN role presence by a few seconds, but I really don't consider that significant or a meaningful improvement, which is the point of adding a feature like that.

Not sure if this was brought up, but why not make the AiN demand "personal" for each player?

For example I get to do my first run as a tank, but then for another it asks me to go dps, and in another to go healer: this could perhaps be randomized for each player after the completion of their run, so when I get dps my friend gets Tank or healer, and another gets another type. It could help out making each player "play" their alts more often I guess?

On top of that they should ramp up the rewards because for 5k extra gil it's not really a big deal: maybe they could give a fixated amount of commendations, like 10 per each time you switch class on demand or something, JUST something more than a few more tomes and gil.

I think vanity items are the way to be for ain.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Not sure if this was brought up, but why not make the AiN demand "personal" for each player?

For example I get to do my first run as a tank, but then for another it asks me to go dps, and in another to go healer: this could perhaps be randomized for each player after the completion of their run, so when I get dps my friend gets Tank or healer, and another gets another type. It could help out making each player "play" their alts more often I guess?

On top of that they should ramp up the rewards because for 5k extra gil it's not really a big deal: maybe they could give a fixated amount of commendations, like 10 per each time you switch class on demand or something, JUST something more than a few more tomes and gil.

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Because bribing people to go in as DPS isn't going to solve the tank shortage in duty finder.

Make adventurer in need ten esos for lvl60 or 10% bonus exp for the whole dungeon and people will queue as tanks in a heartbeat. The problem is the incentive. The reason these types of incentives aren't given is because people would complain about not getting it like the op. Hence the reason we go back to having a small ineffective incentive and dps are stuck waiting around for a queue.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Make adventurer in need ten esos for lvl60 or 10% bonus exp for the whole dungeon and people will queue as tanks in a heartbeat. The problem is the incentive. The reason these types of incentives aren't given is because people would complain about not getting it like the op. Hence the reason we go back to having a small ineffective incentive and dps are stuck waiting around for a queue.

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WoW's incentives used to include bags that had gold, points, consumables in them. There was a small chance at a non combat pet or mount in them. I got plenty of those while leveling tanks and healers.

Enough people bitched and the pets/mounts are no longer in the bags, making it pointless to run for.

I see it about 70% tank 25% healer 5% DPS.


on balmung anyways. Also depends on content. Guildhests. Are 50% DPS and 30% healers.

Here's a question about it's algorythym though. If there are an equal number of tanks and healers in que, say 0, does it prefer tank since the role closest to theleft when you see the status of your group?

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

Here's a question about it's algorythym though. If there are an equal number of tanks and healers in que, say 0, does it prefer tank since the role closest to theleft when you see the status of your group?

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In a very improbable situation like that, it probably goes to the first listed of the flowchart. Given the order of roles we actually see listed, as you mentioned, it's probably tank that gets priority.

Levelling in this game is really not as bad as it could be.

I think any player who picks up a class that will make anyone's queue time quicker is a hero in my book!

BOOST THE REWARD FOR ADVENTURER IN NEED

You know what's hilarious though? Queueing as a tank, with my healer friend, then we had to wait about three or four minutes for dps. It was middle evening. Adventurer bonus was tank in need. Neither of us could believe it.

I saw DPS in need last night for the trial roulette lol. See it go to healer on various ones every so often too (Guildhests seem to be the most common for some reason)

Honestly, if a person's wait time is over 20 minutes, just go ahead and give them the adventurer in need bonus no matter what their job is. >30m queue times are ridiculous, and some old content not attached to roulettes (Crystal Tower) can see 3 hours or more of a wait time.

I think you are missing the point of "adventurer in need" its determined by the most in need role so you get a bonus, doesn't alternate or anything on some set schedule.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Because bribing people to go in as DPS isn't going to solve the tank shortage in duty finder.

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Maybe, but here's what's happening in my mind: I'm a tank and I have no other reason to requeue after doing my daily. Which only requires -one- run. After that the tanks, such as me, and the healers are gone: they don't need that roulette any longer until the rest the next day, and doing a second time gives no longer a bonus and less tomes. See the problem here? (This can also be applied to healers as well)

However if I had more encouragement of doing the roulette after the daily, the shortage could be slowly filled: I just do not have a reason to go back and this was also back in 2.X, because the reward is simply too low. My idea was -A- way that could perhaps help, AND NOT FIX IT, the missing players. But if not, I wish I had more reason to requeue rather than a small bonus in gil and tomes, just JUST something more.

A long time ago in World of Warcraft, I managed to get myself a proto-drake mount from a random satchel I won, because I was motivated to do more and more runs. I didn't expect to win such a rare mount but I did. I actually won a green proto-drake and I was so happy of the reward back then that I just started to fly off in excitement.

Why can't we have some rewards to that degree here?

PS: ...just to make sure, I don't want mounts in a satchel here too. You never know what people will shout at me...

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

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9k gil per dungeon isn't a bad incentive to be honest, especially for people who hate crafting and gathering, like me.

Sometimes when I'm done with everything for the day, I'll run a few roulettes for the gil.

I really hope they don't change the bonus to be anything other than what role is actually needed. It would not help queues for anyone.

Inflating the number of people queuing as DPS and giving no reason for someone to queue as tank for roulettes....the thought of those queues is scary.

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Originally Posted by Adire

9k gil per dungeon isn't a bad incentive to be honest, especially for people who hate crafting and gathering, like me.

Sometimes when I'm done with everything for the day, I'll run a few roulettes for the gil.

I really hope they don't change the bonus to be anything other than what role is actually needed. It would not help queues for anyone.

Inflating the number of people queuing as DPS and giving no reason for someone to queue as tank for roulettes....the thought of those queues is scary.

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Surely 9k isn't bad and I'm one of those who despise crafting and gathering too. Still, it doesn't fix the fact that after doing my daily roulette I really have absolutely no reason to return into the dungeons. I rather play something else, and I'm dead sure I'm not the only person doing this nowadays.

Gear in dungeons cannot be sold for gil: only thing that can be used for is Seals and I'm constantly capped at it. I'm just wasting them for ventures, but otherwise they're useless. Glamour maybe, but I've seen better.

Dungeons also don't give any incentive on redoing them: it's the same run all the time. What about achievements (I hate them, but some love them)? Actual "trial" runs with time (so the speed runners will enjoy themselves?) As of now, I just don't have a reason to go back, except for that single bonus that I dread to run everyday. And on my behalf, money won't help me much since I already have my own house, but for some it might be a different case so I say "no comment" on that.

There's also no incentive on running with fc mates: there's currently no bonus for running with them. Granted, I prefer running alone but it could incite me to run more than once with others. Yet again, I'm rather neutral.

Honestly I dont' blame the lack of tanks or healers: I put the blame on the dungeons themselves, because they just don't offer anything more than the extra gil and tome. I'm pretty sure they won't change anything (sadly), but I do wish that they could change everything else around it. Until then, don't expect many tanks to requeue after doing their dailies.

I surely won't at least.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

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But you do have a reason.

You get 9k gil at 60 every time you run a leveling roulette, even after your daily. That incentive may not be worth it to you personally, but it's gotten me to tank multiple dungeons in a day more than a few times. I'm sure there are others who do the same. And even if it only encourages someone to do it once, it's better encouraging them to do it as a tank than as a dps.

So it is working, even if only a little. But with getting tanks to queue, a little can still help a lot.