DF Penalty

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

The context is you're holding the group hostage. If you don't have the patience to deal with less adept party members, then don't do roulettes. There's other ways of leveling if you don't want to help others.

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I see some mention the healer is holding the group hostage. But on the other hand, if the group's that bad and refuse to abandon, aren't they holding the healer hostage in some kind of "nightmare" also? You can say it all you want but there are always 2 sides on one coin.

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

I see some mention the healer is holding the group hostage. But on the other hand, if the group's that bad and refuse to abandon, aren't they holding the healer hostage in some kind of "nightmare" also? You can say it all you want but there are always 2 sides on one coin.

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No one held hostage or have to deal with a nightmare, they can either try to deal with or leave the party.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Not really you rather be stubborn and risk getting suspended/ban from the whole game then take a 30 minute penalty from just a dungeon and still be able to play the rest of the game.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

No one held hostage or have to deal with a nightmare, they can either try to deal with or leave the party.

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Which, come back to OP post, being "punished" for doing nothing wrong :)

meh, if I end up in a DF I dont want to do or is going bad I'll leave and take the 30 minute penalty unless someone else does first. rather take a 30 minute hit than deal with some hassles

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

I see some mention the healer is holding the group hostage. But on the other hand, if the group's that bad and refuse to abandon, aren't they holding the healer hostage in some kind of "nightmare" also? You can say it all you want but there are always 2 sides on one coin.

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If the team doesn't want to abandon, that's them wanting to continue. If one person wants to call it quits and three that want to keep going, I don't really see how that's not fair.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

I can reverse that argument just as easily. If you\\'re not good at your class, maybe you should queue with friends or FC mates and get personal help instead of causing others to have to deal with it. And don\\'t give me that "But there are people who have no friends". This is an MMO. Massive MULTIPLAYER online. It\\'s expected that you at least socialize and get connections in game and not do the whole thing by yourself.

The roulette is Duty Roulette: Leveling. Not Duty Roulette: Teach the incompetent how to play their jobs. So don\\'t tell me what the roulette is for.



And I consider sticking around, giving tips to people for 5+ wipes plenty of patience. It\\'d be one thing if I left immediately after like one failure. But spending 15+ minutes on one boss? With no advancement? Wiping at the same % each time? Yeah, no. You can only help people so much in a dungeon.

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When the roulette was implemented, it was stated that it was for helping others. You can always go do FATEs or temple leves. Those are much faster and less hassle than the leveling roulette anyway.

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

Which, come back to OP post, being "punished" for doing nothing wrong :)

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There are times where a party is extremely bad yes but for the most part usually not the case. Been in a lot of less then ideal parties but none where I was like this going to longer then what the 30 minute lock would be.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I don\\'t really see how that\\'s not fair.

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Then let that person have an opt out without a penalty.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That\\'s what these dead end groups are, insane. Any normal person would be insane to want to continue to bang their head on a wall over and over again.

And don\\'t say "well you could help them get better" because I\\'ve tried that. I\\'ve given people a whole rotation to do before (I\\'ve had too many "spam flash and RIOT blade paladins" that continue to lose hate, or " blizzard only " BLMs that cause failures of DPS checks).

It\\'s one thing if the dungeon run is just going slow. As long as progress is made. I\\'ll complain internally but won\\'t try to leave until it\\'s apparent that the group isn\\'t getting anywhere regardless of how hard they try. If you fail to see that then you\\'re asinine.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Then let that person have an opt out without a penalty.


Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That\\'s what these dead end groups are, insane. Any normal person would be insane to want to continue to bang their head on a wall over and over again.

And don\\'t say "well you could help them get better" because I\\'ve tried that. I\\'ve given people a whole rotation to do before (I\\'ve had too many "spam flash and RIOT blade paladins" that continue to lose hate, or " blizzard only " BLMs that cause failures of DPS checks).

It\\'s one thing if the dungeon run is just going slow. As long as progress is made. I\\'ll complain internally but won\\'t try to leave until it\\'s apparent that the group isn\\'t getting anywhere regardless of how hard they try. If you fail to see that then you\\'re asinine.

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I can kinda see where you're coming from, but the alternative is those with short queue times abandoning any group at the slightest hint of trouble. I'd definitely consider the current system the lesser of two evils.

Also on a side note, what's with all the back-slashes in your posts? Does it mean something?

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Then let that person have an opt out without a penalty.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That\\'s what these dead end groups are, insane. Any normal person would be insane to want to continue to bang their head on a wall over and over again.

And don\\'t say "well you could help them get better" because I\\'ve tried that. I\\'ve given people a whole rotation to do before (I\\'ve had too many "spam flash and RIOT blade paladins" that continue to lose hate, or " blizzard only " BLMs that cause failures of DPS checks).

It\\'s one thing if the dungeon run is just going slow. As long as progress is made. I\\'ll complain internally but won\\'t try to leave until it\\'s apparent that the group isn\\'t getting anywhere regardless of how hard they try. If you fail to see that then you\\'re asinine.

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Lets remember why there a 30 minute penalty it cause it didn't use to be there and people abused being able to pop in and out of dungeons with no penalty of what they considered bad parties or a dungeon they didn't want to run. Thank all those people for you being "punished"

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

I usually just sit there then. I'm the healer, they can't really proceed without me.

They can either agree to vote abandon or kick me. A bad group is a bad group.

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See, I love it when healers (and tanks) do this. Most players have something other than FFXIV that they would like to do at any given time, so, every time this has happened in a DF I'm in, I've managed to convince the entire rest of the party to AFK with the healer and do that something else for a while. I also tell them to keep a loose eye on the screen in case progression can continue due to the healer getting over themselves, which has happened a few times. Usually, though, the healer comes back within 10 minutes, sees that they haven't been kicked and that we're all AFKing alongside them, and starts to rage all over chat.

At that point, the healer has two choices: sit there until time runs out, or leave and eat LESS of a penalty. A fair few of them try to call the bluff and actually do sit there until time runs out, the poor saps. The rest of them leave, having wasted an additional 10 or so minutes atop of their now 30-minute queue lock.

I get a perverse enjoyment from poking at people's egos. Poetic justice is sweet justice.
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Anyway, snark aside, I see your point about being punished as the one who has done nothing wrong. When you're the only one fulfilling their class role, it can suck having to suck it up and take one for the team you've come to lose all respect for.

But here's the fact of the matter: at least 2 people aside from yourself decided that the dungeon was worth continuing; the vote to abandon would have passed, otherwise. That means that it is not the majority of the group that thinks the dungeon insurmountable in current conditions. You can ask to be kicked, but you might be denied. At that point, you can choose to leave. If you do, you are not punished for doing something wrong in the dungeon, but are punished for leaving a group in progress that was not disbanding, which you did.

The system is working as intended.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

Also on a side note, what's with all the back-slashes in your posts? Does it mean something?

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I've been noticing this, too. It's similar to an escape character in programming or web design - note how they're all before apostrophes. I wonder if he/she's a programmer and it's some sort of habit.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I can kinda see where you're coming from, but the alternative is those with short queue times abandoning any group at the slightest hint of trouble. I'd definitely consider the current system the lesser of two evils.

Also on a side note, what's with all the back-slashes in your posts? Does it mean something?

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The suggestion someone made of having the penalty exempt for 30 minutes of a dungeon run would be adequate for me. A "good" group can get through any dungeon in about that time so any group that was struggling would have to use up at least that much. That would prevent instant leaves.

The back slashes are because if my post gets rejected due to character limit and I have to edit it. I'm on my phone. For some stupid reason, it adds back slashes to every apostrophe I put whenever it takes me to that edit page.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

The suggestion someone made of having the penalty exempt for 30 minutes of a dungeon run would be adequate for me. A "good" group can get through any dungeon in about that time so any group that was struggling would have to use up at least that much. That would prevent instant leaves.

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I don't think anything needs to be changed. Even if something should be changed, it shouldn't be this. What this change would allow is people to hold parties hostage until the point where they can leave with 0 risk of wasting their own time.

I'm not being contrary just for the sake of it, either. There's just no reason to change a working system into something more easily abusable.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

The back slashes are because if my post gets rejected due to character limit and I have to edit it. I'm on my phone. For some stupid reason, it adds back slashes to every apostrophe I put whenever it takes me to that edit page.

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Oh, that's interesting. Heh. The forum software might actually be adding the escape characters it uses for apostrophes right before them due to some incompatibility with the phone software. XD

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Yeah well too bad I can't make my own group for Leveling roulette or else I would. Solo queue only.

The very least people could do is have common courtesy to vote abandon. The reality exists that there are groups that are basically ",no-win" groups. The odds that another healer would take my place and then manage to clear it is basically 0 in most cases

And that's assuming the group even stays there. That's the messed up part about it. Because I leave since the group refuses to abandon or kick, THEY CAN THEN LEAVE RIGHT AFTER ME WITH NO PENALTY EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR FAULT THAT THE DUNGEON RUN IS A FLOP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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such ego. much pride. wow :D
and I love how this is such a one sided story without any proof :p

oh and

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

I can reverse that argument just as easily. If you\\'re not good at your class, maybe you should queue with friends or FC mates and get personal help instead of causing others to have to deal with it. And don\\'t give me that "But there are people who have no friends". This is an MMO. Massive MULTIPLAYER online. It\\'s expected that you at least socialize and get connections in game and not do the whole thing by yourself.

The roulette is Duty Roulette: Leveling. Not Duty Roulette: Teach the incompetent how to play their jobs. So don\\'t tell me what the roulette is for.

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pssst

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Yeah well too bad I can't make my own group for Leveling roulette or else I would. Solo queue only.

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Saying "dodge all mechanics" to explain a fight where the boss exclusively uses AoEs with no indicator really doesn't help, you know. You could have said "DPS move to the side when the boss turns to face you" and "tank run away when he starts casting Swing or Swipe."

Language barriers can make that hard though, I guess =\

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Language barriers can make that hard though, I guess =\

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that's when you break out the mad auto-translate skills xD
I once explained the cerberus fight using all auto-translate words and apparently it got through judging by the number of commends I got afterwards.
well it's either that or they just felt sorry for me for trying to use auto translate to explain a fight >_>

Honestly, there is no reason why someone should be penalized for leaving a dungeon or trial after 30 minutes have passed. That's long enough to give the duty a good try, and at that point it should be clear that the party either does or doesn't have the ability to clear whatever it is they're in. There's a difference between "helping" and "beating your head against a wall" and sometimes you really do get stucks with groups that are the latter.

Vote abandon. It's a thing designed for just that situation.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Did you not try to vote abandon before leaving? Considering how the group was going I doubt they would've opposed the vote

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I dislike the idea of a vote for abandon option as it is open to abuse. I think people who don't want to do any dungeon/trial/whatever should just leave on their own. Vote to abandon just makes the people who might need it (to progress the story for example) suffer longer. They already have the option to leave so they should use it without forcing it on others.

I myself when leveling my first class to 60 was forced to suffer a vote to abandon on both Bismark and steps of fate which made me waste more time then I should have completing them.

Ahaha, tell that to the people who vote abandon A4 at the first wipe, or used to vote abandon WoD on the final fight after one wipe.

Sometimes groups just do not gel, but sometimes there's an honest mistake at play as well. What usually happens is someone requests a vote abandon after one wipe, the rest of the group declines, the person who initiated leaves in a huff, and the person who replaces them gels better with the group and we go on to a win.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease but it also means it was probably the one with the rust on it.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

I usually just sit there then. I'm the healer, they can't really proceed without me.

They can either agree to vote abandon or kick me. A bad group is a bad group.

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This is rude and and awful. What are you, five years old? I usually report people like this if I know they're doing it to avoid the penalty.
I'm patient, I can wait for you to leave on your own. If you want out so bad then just leave the dungeon and eat your penalty.

The last person that wanted to not heal 2 new people (my friends, properly geared/skilled for the content mind you) and myself through a dungeon finally ate the 30 min penalty about an hour after we AFK'ed next to him/her and started watching Red Letter Media videos on YouTube.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I dislike the idea of a vote for abandon option as it is open to abuse.

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People only "abuse" the vote to abandon option in this way because the penalty is too heavy-handed. I think 30 minutes is too long. Either 15 minutes in or after 2-3 wipes. If your group has wiped x times you should absolutely be able to leave that group without penalty and without forcing the rest of the team to vote an abandon.

Folks, sometimes you are going to get people that troll you. It's unfortunate but it's a fact of life and once upon a time gamers just dealt with reality. laughed and moved on. This whole idea of shaping the system to eliminate that one troll while making life harder for the ten or so non-trolls that just want to leave a frustrating dungeon is, in my opinion, a sad symptom of this overly sensitive world we live in today.

It WAS 15 minutes in early 2.0, but people still abandoned parties because 15 minutes meant nothing to them until the devs doubled the timer. I also don't agree with giving people a free pass if they wipe a few times because it would either encourage people to be even more toxic if there's X wipes or people will become even lazier knowing if they screw up a few times, they can just leave without penalty and do it all over again in another party. It's getting rather silly seeing so many people trying their darndest putting in so much effort just to avoid a few minutes of sitting out of DF.

Did OP explain to others what they could do differently? Were they newbs?

I don't see any reason WHY SMN and BLM stand next to bosses. Or why tank was dragging boss close to OP.

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Originally Posted by Naliee

Did OP explain to others what they could do differently? Were they newbs?

I don't see any reason WHY SMN and BLM stand next to bosses. Or why tank was dragging boss close to OP.

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She said she did, somewhat, but being on a JP server meant she was dealing with a language barrier.

AV is a necessary learning curve.

Doesn't mean i like it.

The coincounter is far less forgiving, than other cyclops type/mechanic/reskins that appear in the game. *cough* fractal, snowcloak, halatali(hm). It's like AV is a catastrophe that even the dev's want to forget. So they don't even attempt to go back and rebalance it.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

It WAS 15 minutes in early 2.0, but people still abandoned parties because 15 minutes meant nothing to them until the devs doubled the timer. I also don't agree with giving people a free pass if they wipe a few times because it would either encourage people to be even more toxic if there's X wipes or people will become even lazier knowing if they screw up a few times, they can just leave without penalty and do it all over again in another party. It's getting rather silly seeing so many people trying their darndest putting in so much effort just to avoid a few minutes of sitting out of DF.

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Could you elaborate on exactly how this would make people *more* toxic? It seems like it would do the opposite. If you wipe a few times that player who normally would start talking trash because he knows he will eat a penalty for leaving\will troll and not participate until kicked\will purposely give the rest a hard time by pulling adds would just... leave. That would be the end of it.

I think you overestimate the number of people who are queuing for dungeons without the intention of actually doing the dungeon. Like I said before, you're getting rid of 1 troll, but at the expense of 10 legitimate players who should have every right to bail on a group that just doesn't mesh well.

There's ways to structure the queues without a bunch of overly harsh *punishments* but gosh, that's what this community likes I guess. It's no wonder there's so many complaints of toxic players in dungeons when literally the entire system is designed to make people as toxic as possible.

yes i have left b4 its not against the tos i cant be bothered with some dungeons

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

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It's mostly the tanks or healers that get this attitude because they have practically nothing to lose from bailing on a dungeon if they don't get a penalty to it, due to instant queues. DPS on the otherhand, are waiting for 25+ minutes to get their dungeon queue. If you were to allow them to leave without a penalty after dying a few times, what's stopping those individuals from purposely dying to trash pulls then calling it quits, and leaving the party stranded without a tank/healer. And in-progress tank/healers are a rarity unless you have someone in the FC/LS that's willing to come in; It's as good as abandoning the duty if you lose the tank/healer.

And there's been an increasing amount of these individuals from my experience, it's a lot more than I'd like to admit tbh even compared to the likes of WoW or a moba. I've actually had an encounter where someone couldn't vote kick because they had previously done it before in the same day for the same reason.

Am I the only one who wishes SE would (drastically) increase the penalty for leaving? Personally I think the penalty should be whatever time was remaining on the timer when you left (so might be as high as 90 minutes or two hours depending on what instance it was). 30 minutes just isn't long enough to inconvenience people for leaving, especially when it's not just them that's affected. Obviously in most cases it wouldn't take that long to complete the dungeon, but that's the incentive to stay, because the penalty for leaving will definitely take up much more time.

If a tank/healer bails at the start of the dungeon that effectively wastes everyone else's time until someone else does a join in progress which may/may not be for a while. I feel most sorry for the DPS who had to wait to get in, have to wait some more now and then have to wait might have to wait even more if they have to requeue because everyone else leaves.

If the group gets part way through and it's really not working, they have the option to vote abandon. It only needs half the people (so 2/4) to agree for it to go through. So if it's just one person who wants to quit they have to either decide to keep at it, or give up and take the penalty.

Obviously though with 8 person instances that scales up so it'd need 4 people for it to pass, but if people were to then go on strike/refuse to play until they were kicked, then they also risk being reported...

A lot of people don't seem to not understand a roulette is random from the whole list in that group. It's not "random choice of dungeons from the ones I don't mind doing". If you don't want to do a specific dungeon in that group, then don't pick the roulette.

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Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang

The coincounter is far less forgiving, than other cyclops type/mechanic/reskins that appear in the game. *cough* fractal, snowcloak, halatali(hm).

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I always found it MORE forgiving than the Coerthas Central super-FATE boss, personally. I think it's all the adds, and the slopes messing up swing dodging.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Am I the only one who wishes SE would (drastically) increase the penalty for leaving?

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Yes.

There's no need to raise the DF penalty. 30 minutes is plenty to inconvenience people who abuse it while not overly penalizing people who leave to get out of a toxic situation or because of a short emergency. If you are so revenge-obsessed that you want to severely punish people who leave your group, you really need to learn to calm down, get over it, and let that anger go. Raising the penalty would only encourage people to vote-kick random folks anyway, possibly starting arguments/hostility with the party to get the other folks to kick one or the other, so they can avoid the penalty.

If the penalty was going to be two hours, and something happened where I'd have to go afk for 15-20 minutes unexpectedly, I'd afk in the duty instead of just leaving. How is that better? No one (with a soul) is going to report someone who goes "brb, family emergency," and it's not like it's going to take two hours to change a diaper or even put out a small kitchen fire.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

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To add onto what Rice said, you're basically telling people that we can only wipe 2 or 3 times and then any of us can just ditch you because I can find another party without a penalty. This means you've set an unnecessary goal post where now everyone HAS to do the content with minimum wipes or everyone will just take their ball and go home and that's usually from the more impatient people. It's actually quite rare for me to see an entire group not working well together, but it's a lot more common to see one person who is just not doing what they're supposed to do, making them easy to kick out and get a replacement. If someone refuses to leave because they wanted to be kicked out and avoid a penalty, I am quite sure that falls on the grounds of harassment, which can be reported.


If the entire group is falling to pieces, that's what vote abandon is for. If one person is holding everyone back, kick them out. People don't need be quitting just because one person is being a jerk. Remember, 15 minutes wasn't enough to deter people from quitting so chronically and the abuse of fishing for in progress duties was high before the withdraw penalties were added. 30 minutes is not going to kill anyone; you aren't going to get bored any faster waiting 30 minutes to cap your esoterics so that you can run on the forums to complain that there's nothing to do.

Hey everyone,

What I can propose, for those that don't have the patience to teach, or the other end of the stick, those who don't care and do whatever they want and then not listening after they die 2 times:

Make it so that if you die 4 times on a trial/dungeon/whatever, to be kicked out automatically AND suffer the 30min penalty, to reflect upon what you could have done to prevent it.

So if the entire group fails and wipe 4 times on the same boss (excluding raids of course), it means they were not able to communicate, improve, and they deserve to abandon it by force, as it proves they wouldn't have made it anyway, even with 90 mins available.

so instead of wasting 60 mins, everyone gets a 30mins penalty.

Perhaps then people will start to think twice before engaging, and once inside.. communicate.

I did Fractal yesterday (about my 3rd attempt) and at the beginning I state that I'm still new to it (I don't do my Roulettes every time I play, out of time.) Things are smoother and no one seems to complain, and we finish it.

So there you have my proposition.

Like it or hate it, people that just rant without trying to give others a little text, explaining a bit this boss, instead of 'Last try', the community might git gud, which points at the OP as well.

Sad cause I'm the type that will take 90 mins to complete it if it comes to it, but the community is sooo.. impatient, that we did Praetorium in 15 mins with my GF, and it was her first time. Did she enjoyed it? No need to tell you.

Thank you for reading.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

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So anyone in a learning party for EX primals and Alexander/Coil will get kicked out by the system very frequently for wiping so much, even though they're communicating with others. Surely nothing bad will come out of that!

BTW, your idea is terrible.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

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DF = Bunch of mixed people who don't care one cent about you.

PF = is your friend, for creating what you want, learning parties and others.

My idea was for DF. *And I typed: excluding raids.

My point was to make sure that those who enter anything, don't do it blindly and not caring about other's time. I find the Votekick very rude, so instead having this option that I proposed would disable the votekick.

People can still leave if they want to.

*Did Nabraela Trial yesterday (Roulette) Half of them had their kill, for.. standing on the ground, 0 HP, even when you see the Healers sending them a Raise. Shame.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So anyone in a learning party for EX primals and Alexander/Coil will get kicked out by the system very frequently for wiping so much, even though they're communicating with others. Surely nothing bad will come out of that!

BTW, your idea is terrible.

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He did say excluding Raids.

And EX primals are still PF only right now, this discussion is DF stuff

It's still a bad idea to begin with and it sounds like you're just mad over the handful of bad runs in DF. If someone is sucking that badly, a simple kick is all you need to do to get rid of them. Stop making "do or die" scenarios that help no one but getting yourself some sort of smug self satisfaction that "justice" was served.

And while current EX primals are not in DF, past EX primals are, along with coil and Alexander normal, so the point still stands.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

It's still a bad idea to begin with and it sounds like you're just mad over the handful of bad runs in DF. If someone is sucking that badly, a simple kick is all you need to do to get rid of them. Stop making "do or die" scenarios that help no one but getting yourself some sort of smug self satisfaction that "justice" was served.

And while current EX primals are not in DF, past EX primals are, along with coil and Alexander normal, so the point still stands.

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You got me wrong, I'm one of those that don't mind spending the entire time allowed to clear anything, even when everyone (including myself) can suck ;)

And once again, your impaired judgement is blinding you. Wonders who have the sense of justice ^^

I don't need anything to feel besides having a good time with people who tries their best but still fails.. BUT NEVER GIVE UP no matter what, until the timer runs out.

Have fun in the game ^^

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

You got me wrong, I'm one of those that don't mind spending the entire time allowed to clear anything, even when everyone (including myself) can suck ;)

And once again, your impaired judgement is blinding you. Wonders who have the sense of justice ^^

I don't need anything to feel besides having a good time with people who tries their best but still fails.. BUT NEVER GIVE UP no matter what, until the timer runs out.

Have fun in the game ^^

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But, your suggestion goes against that. If you get kicked after 4 wipes, you won't even stick around for the timer. And now it shifts around; a single individual could sabotage the entire party and force them all to eat the penalty with malicious intent.

Outside of that, you won't even get those "we definitely got it this time" moments if you get hard kicked after 4 wipes.

i will never take a 30 min penalty for a bad party, ever!

I will try a vote abandon, vote kick the player who is too busy watching tv / is not doing their job, or just go afk.

too many times its some kid who is too drunk or stoned to focus on the dungeon, or they just are too casual to bother with learning their job... these are deliberate actions (They chose to drink/smoke/watch tv), and inaction (they chose to do something else with their time instead of learning the content/job, dodging, paying attention) is in itself an action. i find these actions to be harassing in nature, as they are inferring that it is the rest of the party and my responsibility to carry them. They deliberately are wasting my time because they could not spend theirs in alignment with the rest of the party/player base.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harassment
(1) : to annoy persistently (2) : to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct

Wiping on crap content annoys me, and if you cannot press the right buttons at the right time, then your physical conduct is not welcomed.