Because SE's goal as a company is to generate revenue. If SE can attract a larger player base they'll receive more active subscriptions which is why they're trying to delve into both facets of gameplay: PvE and PvP. Appealing to more players = more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rynia
As of now, FFXIV does not appeal to PvPers. No real ranking or match rating systems. No major tournaments with cash payout prizes. Only one PvP map available at level 60. FFXIV is nowhere near its full potential yet.
It's primarily why Yoshida wants to add a ranking system to WD and it is certainly the reason why he wants to add PvP World championships in the future. Could you imagine the amount of cash this game could earn if it gained popularity in international e-sports? The amount of money and publicity that SE could gain through e-sports is just too hard to ignore at this point.
Okay...so the minion PvP...is getting RANKING!? And regular PvP isn't? What the HELL!
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09-25-2015, 01:10 AMkpxmanifesto
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09-25-2015, 01:15 AMPArcher
I'm 90% sure everyone saying pvp queues are bad are either flames, or queuing at off times. My queues are rarely longer than 20 mins (off times or tuesdays) and often 5-10 mins (which is faster than dps queues for almost everything), even insta-queuing a lot. I'm storm, BTW.
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09-25-2015, 01:54 AMErzaScarlet77even if the game doesnt gain the e-sports traction like LoL/GW2. i think its still nice to show that SE cares for both PvE players and PvP playersQuote:
Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto
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09-25-2015, 01:58 AMNektulos-TuorThis game is NOT a PvP game. It has some of the worst PvP I have ever played. However, if they made the "PvP" part of the game also PvE in some ways, then it would be an amazing game.Quote:
Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto
Like Kumasylum in Tera. Even though players are controlling monsters its still PvP. -
09-25-2015, 02:04 AMkpxmanifestoI understand that it isn't right now but it appears to me that Yoshida is trying to turn it into a game that at least somewhat emphasizes PvP, hence the future WD ranking system and PvP world championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-25-2015, 02:06 AMChessala
PvP is featured in too many games already. I rather the devs work on proper content than focus on PvP.
Really, the setting and the game itself is not aimed at PvPers, you should be happy they even waste any time on this useless feature. Go explore the world instead of killing other people's pixels and feeling good about it.
Leave the PvErs one of the few refuges that still exist in the MMO world. -
09-25-2015, 02:15 AMkpxmanifestoWell I just wanted to point out to you that Naoki Yoshida isn't on board with you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chessala
Yoshida: After all that is implemented we’re going to work on the Wolves Den map, with the large scale PVP we’re trying to get as many people to come in contact with that type of content. A lot of Final Fantasy players have never played PVP or just hearing PVP makes them hesitate on trying to play so we’re trying to get as many people used to that type of content and once we have that in place...
...and in the future we’re hoping to have season matches, where we can do like a World Championship where people can compete for who is the strongest Free Company, or who can get the most points as well.
Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...Expansion.html -
09-25-2015, 02:19 AMkpxmanifesto
Further elaboration on the WD ranking system:
Yoshida: Wolves's den 2(tentative) is planned for patch 3.2. When WD 2 is released they will make adjustments to the ranking system and they are planning to release Rating matches and season matches. The season match is about deciding a champion for each season.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...sus_interview/ -
09-25-2015, 02:37 AMFelisonly if Pokemon count as a RTS gameQuote:
Originally Posted by T2teddy
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/09/18...-of-verminion/ -
09-25-2015, 02:44 AMraelgunIts ranked PVP, thats kinda the whole point is to be competitive and bring the best of the best, dunno what you were expecting. Also, have you seen the prize money blizzard gives for RANKED PVPQuote:
Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...-championship/ -
09-25-2015, 04:12 AMAwfulPeople want PvP just because you don't want it doesn't mean the other 70% of the playerbase doesn't want it. And they could make some PvE elements within a PvP map but that's when we got minion battles to waste even more of the PvP communities time. The developers do want to bring PvP in this game whether you like it or not it is going to be implimented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-25-2015, 04:19 AMAwfulComparing a Moba to an MMO in terms of PvP just no...lol GW2 yes because they're both MMOs. You are missing that there's no competition in this game it's a safe haven where even if you somehow hurt someone's feelings in PvP you're an elitist. "Oh no he killed me twice! Must be a premade elitist egoistic person!" All these talks of people going on a rampage calling each other noobs because the pvp community wants ranking deters people from wanting to actually try PvP. In terms of that it's the opposite people are trying to get more to play PvP matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77
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09-25-2015, 04:23 AMNektulos-Tuor
PvP should be in dungeons with players playing monsters. Its still PvP but it actually fits what the game is all about.
Invading monster castles and having one side play monsters and the other play players with chests and rewards that can be used in PvE. -
09-25-2015, 04:30 AMWelsper59I'd say that's incorrect about how many people actually care. The majority playerbase does not care about PvP for it being PvP. They care about having different/new content to partake in that fulfills some means of accomplishing their goal, which in this case means Eso capping. When 3.1 comes out, expect a longer queue time and less 72man matches. Maybe a month or two later, depending on how the new content works, queue times might return to what they are now, which again isn't a whole lot of people that care that it's PvP (meaning they don't want specifically PvP, just something different from the normal routine). The very low activity of PvP after it's new and the frequency of meeting the same people when you queue again should raise a flag for that fact. Since the two dungeons available have been run so many times as is, some folks are taking to PvP because it is essentially faster and you don't have to even win to get your reward. Some datacenters might have enough for 2 separate groups for PvP active, but most either have one full or barely enough to start at any given time. That's a pretty low representation of players that WANT to specifically PvP, when compared to PvE. Wolves Den is the lowest representation of PvP activity between the two PvP setups, as it almost always is when it comes to ranked small group warfare in any game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awful
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09-25-2015, 05:14 AMSapphicI remember when we PvPd in MMOs because we enjoyed PvP, no rewards just the fun of putting the smackdown. Now it's all about the rewards, not the PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
Also PvP should never be about who has the best gear, should only be about who has the most organised team/better players. -
09-25-2015, 05:22 AMSunakoRewards? There is level sync so gear should not matter much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
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09-25-2015, 06:16 AMAwfulThis game had just PvE in mind which I get that most people just want to PvE as it heavily reinforces PvE rather then PvP. For the data centre i'm in yes I do see familiar faces however it's usually more than just the 2 groups sometimes i'm with the same people other times it's others. I retract my 70% I was just pulling that out of my ass it's lower but still there are people who want it, if you're not one of the people who don't want it then don't bother trying to give others incentive not to even try. That's the whole problem with the community is that there's so much stigma and in today's games that if you're bad you'll get called out, hell I remember when I played my first MMO and had NO CLUE what to do did I care? No. Problem with MMOs today is people are more entitled then what they used to be, i'm guilty of this because I want PvP so throw me in here but for the majority of people who want new glamours, pet battles, useless mini games that's not real content or any enjoyment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
People are so afraid of making mistakes in this game that they don't enjoy it to it's fullest, you can argue that the PvP system is flawed (and yes it is). The point of this thread is to promote people to enjoy PvP more, have fun, get rewards by improving themselves, because hell in this game you get REWARDED for doing the bare minimum. I would love to work for PvP gear for the season rather then sit there, get ranks, exp, and not use the gear but it's not a perfect system nothing is. You may not care as much as someone like myself but i'm not trying to slag anyone down here rated BGs, Ranked Arenas and tournaments are a welcome site and longevity for any MMO however FF14 also has amazing PvE, it's not like GW2 where you PvP till you die, or do the clunky boring PvE. FF14 hasn't found this balance of PvE and PvP yet as PvP wasn't going to be included which is why it's the elephant in the room rather then people actually wanting to promote it. I don't care if you RP, PvE, just do gathering, do it for the story, at least open your options and try it out, at least welcome changes such as this. I'm not saying "you gotta love PvP for what it is" no you're entitled to your own opinion it's not the best system I just hope it gets better in 3.2 because i'm going to continue to PvP rather then running the same dungeons for another 2 months while lvling other classes that interest me in PvP. -
09-25-2015, 06:27 AMNektulos-Tuor
If I got to use the gear I earned through PvP I would like it much better. =)
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09-25-2015, 06:31 AMIagainstiWell I sure didn't get the title "Heliodrome Hero" from player killing. There's Pve content mixed into PvPQuote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-25-2015, 06:31 AMAwfulSame here I would enjoy it tons more and it's one of the biggest gripes about the PvP in this game the gear is virtually useless. Morale needs to do something different instead of increase your ilvl by 10 but I have no ideas how to do that unless it's PvP dmg but they ruined that with how imbalanced it was before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-25-2015, 06:32 AMIagainstiRank up like the rest of us did, nothing is stopping you other than yourself and that negative attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-25-2015, 06:34 AMIagainstiUses:Quote:
Originally Posted by Awful
The stats are exactly what you want for your class in both WD and FL
Glamours
Desynths; the money I've accrued form breaking hellwolf accessories and Pld shields is staggering
Morale is useful in WD. -
09-25-2015, 06:36 AMIagainstiYou are describing Frontlines to a tee. What is your gripe exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
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09-25-2015, 06:38 AMAwfulOr do what most people do and get their off pieces and ilvl 200 pieces that are better and it doesn't make a difference. It is somewhat noticeable but by no means enough. As for desynths it's kind of sad that that's what most people use the PvP gear just solidifying my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iagainsti
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09-25-2015, 06:38 AMNektulos-TuorUh, I will pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iagainsti
I would rather work and do a job that pays me rather then work and grind and do a job that doesn't.
Grinding several hundred matches isn't fun and is very tedious in my opinion. Especially when the PvP isn't balanced.
This game, was not designed at all for PvP. It is a PvE game with PvP tacked on and it has no bonuses or anything that makes it fun or competitive.
The Minion PvP however, might be a different story. It gives the developers a chance to actually make balanced PvP because its separated from the PvE game. -
09-25-2015, 06:45 AMIagainstiSo you consider multiple matches a "grind"? There's your problem there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-25-2015, 06:45 AMWelsper59I disagree with you on the glamour, pet battles, and mini games sort of thing as not being real content. Having played MMORPGs for well over a decade, I've come to have a better understanding of what we wanted before and how it reflects on what we have now. Back in the day, the best looking gear was rare and usually exclusive to endgame raids. It was basically a number of wants packed together in one form of item/content/etc. Today, because of how the times have changed when it comes to GOOD games always available to us, devs need to cater to a wider audience when it comes to general "wants". How they do it or what they focus on is up to their discretion as developers. Whether we choose to support or enjoy that focus is up to us as consumers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awful
The want for those small things becoming a focus is exactly how its always been. These days, those small things like glamour or side events are their own thing. While minor when looked at individually, they're usually provided in a way that makes it its own. Whereas before, it was all just one form of doing something to get one specific thing, and thus it became limited to what you can do for your character aesthetically to avoid relevant gear bloat. That is, endgame stat gear for games that lack aesthetic manipulation, like the Glamour system. Art design is a huge thing to us as consumers, whether anyone choose to believe it or not. I mean, how I reacted back in 2003 and 2004 to seeing people in flashy gear (and wanting it too) in games like FFXI and WoW is no different to how others might react to gear they see today. Again, they're just a minor part of the overall scheme of content, but the meaningful aspect of it is subjective to each person. This determines what's real content or enjoyable. If folks want to focus on doing something simply for glamour or want to experience something different (like pet battles or mini games), then more power to them. These are but small parts of the whole.
The stigma bit though, I definitely agree for the most part. The general populous is more suited to be of mind to what we would consider as carebears back in the day. I'm definitely one of them, simply because while I started off playing games with PvP servers, I enjoyed the PvE aspect a lot more and hated the idea of some d-bag wasting my time. Loved the open world wars though and revenge killing. While this doesn't exist in this games design, it became the way things are for good reason. People are far less understanding and much more negatively vocal these days, at least based on what we're exposed to. I guarantee we'll see a bunch of dipshits doing Void Ark on day 1, and leaving upon the first wipe after calling everyone a "bad". -
09-25-2015, 06:47 AMNektulos-TuorWhen your playing an underpowered class. (Not scholar mind you, I am speaking of my alt. My scholar is actually fun to play in PvP.) and going into PvP where you literally get trashed and feel like you have no effect on the fight then it is a "Grind".Quote:
Originally Posted by Iagainsti
It reminds me in WoW when Death Knights and Paladins were OP and trashing everyone in a few hits and were un-killable.
Now, if it was PvP like RIFT where everyone was unique and different? RIFT also had a rank system, but it wasn't as bad as getting the gear for it and it was removed every season. (3 months.) So PvPers who played a lot still had an advantage but it was short lived.
If PvP is grindy and feels like a job more then fun then its not well designed.
Valerian gear looks extremely cool.. but not dyable,Quote:
Originally Posted by Iagainsti
Valerian gear is far easier to get.
Valerian gear does not have crappy and stupid requirements attached. -
09-25-2015, 06:50 AMIagainstiFor FL, I totally agree that a mix match of 160/170/190/200 gear to exclude acc and parry is more than enough. For those of us looking forward to the ranked WD, we will use the pvp gear, extra wolf marks now that I have my sets(and when I had my i110 set) are an easy dump for desynth, no different than dungeon drops. So by your logic, it's sad that I desynth valerian gear or trade it for seals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Awful
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09-25-2015, 06:54 AMIagainstiYou are all over the place, amigo(I should expect this from you now, my bad really) This does not validate your original point. One, there are no underpowered class in FFXIV, especially in FL(which I know you're not doing WD) Healers, DDs and Tanks all function very well if played right. You need the practice you'd get from "grinding" matches if you're getting thrashed. A couple 100 matches might actually do your skills some good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-25-2015, 07:53 AMAwfulI respectfully agree on these points that you made. There are finer points that are missing but the PvE aspect has no one fighting you wasting hours upon hours world PvP wouldn't suit this game as much. As for Void Ark yeah it'll be much of the same of WoD, wipe once get called bads and noobs, games are evolving and I know everything is bits and pieces where making everyone happy is tough. Thank you though for your honest answers I can relate to a lot of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59