There needs to be some adjustments with fending accessories

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Here's what I'd like to see done for Fending accessories:

*Make a VIT:STR ratio of 2:1 and make Slaying accessories available only to jobs with STR as their main stat.

Here's what I'd like to see for tanks jobs, in general:

*Make VIT affect enmity generation (tanks only) and parry/block rate and effectiveness (up to about 50% damage)

*I agree with the idea of making Sword Oath flip VIT/STR values (Defiance/Deliverance effectively does this anyway, so no change is needed there), though that may be trickier than Cleric Stance due to HP drops.

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since when does defiance and deliverance SWITCH damage from vit to str? its never done that so stop talking crap plz.

se has many option to deal with this like was said yet refuses to. instead they already said they plan on handing out enmity buffs to your enmity skills with 3.1 which is basicly a band aid.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

I don't see why they don't put more stuff like Ring of Lasting Shelter on fending accessories: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/dacdfdb4ea4/

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With how limited our inventory space is, I'd rather they *not* add a boatload of resist gear.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

I don't see why they don't put more stuff like Ring of Lasting Shelter on fending accessories: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/dacdfdb4ea4/

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Cause then we'll eventually end up with FFXI DD tank syndrome cause they can just sit there in -50% damage taken and be like I FEEL THE BURNNNNN

edit: I think it'd be ok if the physical resistances started showing up on weapons, but we'd need three weapons every ilvl tier to make it worthwhile. but it could turn into:

A1: idk what the damage type is here for physical.
A2: slash resist sword
A3: blunt resist sword
A4: who cares it's all magic, which one is the most offensive

If anything this is the only thing that makes gearing up interesting.
"Do i buy this fending or slaying accessory?"
I get to ask myself that often. It's actually nice from the cookie cutter change of only having one option.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If anything this is the only thing that makes gearing up interesting.
"Do i buy this fending or slaying accessory?"
I get to ask myself that often. It's actually nice from the cookie cutter change of only having one option.

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The problem is right now there is no reason to ever take the fending accessory over a melded item.

(unmeldable) Fending accessories need a noticeable bonus to a tank's actual toughness, not just their HP pool. Even just phys/magic def on them would be enough to at least give them a reason to exist.

Except people still won't use them because "MOAR DEEPS".

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Originally Posted by Jamez82

Except people still won't use them because "MOAR DEEPS".

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I don't subscrib to that frame of mind, I would use them.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

If you time it properly, it's an automatic block.

It doesn't work *right* now because none of the tank busters can be blocked currently, but it *can* help out the auto attack right after that might be the cause of your tank's death if you're having issues at that point.

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That effectively limits the effectiveness of Sheltron to single targets, since you can only effectively time things against a single target.

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They specifically reduced block effectiveness and parry effectiveness because there are abilities that guarantee both. Can't remember what the warrior one is as I don't play it, but Sheltron is a guaranteed block, and Bulwark ups chance by 60%(not even sure what my block rate percentage *is* since it's not displayed anywhere that I'm finding) which is kinda stupid high with a lot of things hitting you.

Not sure. Paladin used to have one combo and one combo only that was really used regularly, so lower enmity multiplier was okay. Now we have two more, which have higher potencies on the, but no modifier. So Goring Blade and Royal Authority do jack shit for my enmity. If I'm pushing DPS, I *will* lose hate if I'm not careful.

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I can't help thinking the lack of emnity modifier is an oversight.

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Blizzard had something similar going on with World of Warcraft and both shield tanks. Essentially, you wanted to be CTC capped(combat table coverage). Block, dodge and parry at 102.5% meant you could not be hit for full damage. At all.

Then there was the Trial of the Grand Crusader runs on the last boss that summoned a boatload of adds that hit like trucks. We'd go back into old raids to get gear with block rate on it for our Warrior. He'd tank them because he'd take less damage. Blizzard fixed that right up by REMOVING block rate from gear.

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Apllying a modifier based on level difference seems like agood way to moderate a lot of things besides parry and block. But if a tank goes completely buttoned up at theexpense of damage generation, I don'tsee a balance issue since the missing dps has to be made up for by others.

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it causes balance issues. Done right, sure it could be good. Done wrong though.... Yeah.

And I'd still like to see PLD get a damage reflect on block effect.

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A damage reflection - with an emnity mofifier makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Blaz

I've never understood why tanks needed either two sets of accessories, or pentameld.
Don't see healers needing pentamelded accessories with int to be able to do some dps, or a monk needing mind for their self heal, maybe give some strength to all vitality accessories like they did for accuracy on healer gear, before they took all that away. xD

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Because stupidly high DPS checks
All accessories increase DPS for their respective jobs/roles except tank (str/dex/int for DPS and mnd which increases healer dps) so they don't need it.
ACC for healers increases their DPS so they do that

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That effectively limits the effectiveness of Sheltron to single targets, since you can only effectively time things against a single target.

I can't help thinking the lack of emnity modifier is an oversight.

A damage reflection - with an emnity mofifier makes sense.

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As it is, Sheltron is only good for one block. Very limited usefulness on anything but single targets, though I use it on CD on trash pulls anyways. making it last for a guaranteed duration though makes it too similar to Bulwark, with is 60% for 15s.

The enmity thing I hope is an oversight. We *only* had our enmity combo before. Therefore, threat was fine.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

They changed parry/block effectiveness because it was going to scale too high. They don't want us blocking 30+% damage of each hit every time. Especially with things like Sheltron.

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The side effect of this was to make an already bad stat (parry) worse.


Anyhow, my vote is tank accessories would be changed to STR + VIT both at 75% of current cap (this would be the new cap for fending acc). This would make i190 fending about as strong as the current i150 pentamelds in terms of STR+VIT (with i190 level of secondary stats).

Sadly, while this is better for overall balance between the classes (high level fending gear becomes universally desirable), it also removes the last good thing about crafting that's currently in the game. Crafting needs more useful stuff across the board. It's usefulness for combat classes shouldn't solely be relegated to leveling gear you barely need and grow out of quickly, and one set of accessories (pentamelded STR+VIT accessories) for one role (tanks) that's heavily dependent on possibly the worst system in the game (overmelding).

Gotta remember, Giantbane, they'd originally intended on *breaking* the whole thing.

After what melded accessories did to Coil, they decided crafted gear has to suck.

Though I'd honestly be more agreeable to removing overmelds. Entirely.

Pff screw tanks, I want Acc on healer gear!

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If anything this is the only thing that makes gearing up interesting.
"Do i buy this fending or slaying accessory?"
I get to ask myself that often. It's actually nice from the cookie cutter change of only having one option.

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If you're a Warrior and you're asking yourself "Fending or Slaying", you're not axing the right questions.

Slaying all the way.

A1S trolled my static this week with a Neckband and Wristband of Fending. Luckily the Neckband is one of two Fending pieces I actually use and has decent stats. The Wristband is horrendous and the other tank took it to wear on his WHM in PvP. xD

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The Wristband is horrendous and the other tank took it to wear on his WHM in PvP. xD

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LOL!! But glad to see I wasn't the only one to get trolled. That horrendous wristband dropped for me as well. The other tank didn't even roll on it. I only did because "Why Not?" I guess, even though the secondaries on it are complete crap for tanks.

I rolled a 1 and won it. I felt the number I rolled was also representative on where I would rate that particular piece of gear if I were tasked to assign it a number from 1-100. :)

We should really just toss Fending completely, put a little Vit on all accessories, and let tanks roll on Slaying. And I do mean all accessories. Make the STR/MND/DEX/INT a primary stat, and put some Vit on it, just like they do with the actual armor pieces. Never saw the purpose in having accessories just for Vit anyway.

And before anyone says "What about the parry on Fending?", I want you to stop for a second, and ask yourself why you even care about Parry in the first place.

I think it would be funnier if they just class-restricted accessories the same way they do gear.

The tears from the community would be delicious.

The stats tanks needed in 1.0 were slightly different. Each class had 2 stats that effected their damage.
Warriors attack was determined by STR and VIT
Paladins were STR and MND

Thus making Warriors so much better because they could stack vit and raise their attack and steel cyclone.

So all SE has to do is change it so tanks attack is determined by 50% str and 50% vit similar to 1.0 warriors so then they could use their fending accessories and groups could meet dps checks without having to have their tanks go full on getting str accessories.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Gotta remember, Giantbane, they'd originally intended on *breaking* the whole thing.

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Just because the original version of overmelding was god awful, doesn't mean the current version isn't bad, frustrating and way too dependent on low % RNG.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

So all SE has to do is change it so tanks attack is determined by 50% str and 50% vit similar to 1.0 warriors so then they could use their fending accessories and groups could meet dps checks without having to have their tanks go full on getting str accessories.

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This would make pentamelded accessories give more damage than slaying accessories currently do, making them best in slot in nearly every circumstance (something SE stated they wanted to avoid). I don't think this is the right fix.

Just to throw some other ideas out there, they could go another route with it entirely (rather than buffing fending accessories via further vit/str):
1. Strong tank-unique secondary stats (issue: OT dps, unless including something like... Vigor - a tiny portion of your HP, based on your %HP, counts as AP... though even that would be limitingly OT-only)
E.g. Tenacity - potency taken(/mitigated) gives bonus AP for a short time;
Bastion - bonus healing taken and small AP boost from (bonus) healing received;
Steadfast - reduced knockback, interruption, heavies, and slows, and mitigation builds slight flat bonus mitigation (best vs. AAs and quick spam attacks);
Luck - Attacks that would kill you will instead guarantee the form of active mitigation that most narrowly allows you to survive, consuming a hidden supply of bonus maximum health or 'Luck', but once your luck runs out...;
Vigor - a tiny portion of your HP, based on your %HP, counts as AP

:: Likely all these stats, not just Luck, would need to have an underlying resource so they could be noticeable when it counts without being overpowered.


2. Positional/focus threat - Enemies have a lower enmity maximum; enmity, especially from non-tank sources, is reduced when not attacking from the enemy's line of sight; but a small portion of enmity also stacks positionally (e.g. 3 ranged can fire from the same area in attempt to rip off the tank and move a mob; it will turn and select the highest enmity member as its target). Rather than enemies counting every point of damage from each source (most of which are invisible to them), they mostly just get more pissed, directing it where it most seems to make sense. (Eventually this could also allow players to bait certain tail/leg/defensive missile/whatever mechanics.)

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Though I'd honestly be more agreeable to removing overmelds. Entirely.

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While this is something I can get behind, this would also require changes to materia on some level.

I'm also in favor of changing the itemization on Fending accessories.

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Originally Posted by Velox

I think it would be funnier if they just class-restricted accessories the same way they do gear.

The tears from the community would be delicious.

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Whoa. Calm down there, Satan.

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Though, I guess that's one way to give everyone the expanded armor chests they want so badly. The rings wouldn't all fit in there (especially not if you include crafters and gatherers).

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Well maybe in the next zone of Alex, you will need Vit accessories to survive a tankbuster, and there won't be such tight DPS checks?

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Higher HP don't help much to survive these. Have seen many full VIT tanks die by Akh Morn yet many full STR tanks survived it by properly using their cooldowns. STR accessories are always helpful because they affect your every hit. Extra HP most of the time is not helpful unless you have a bad, bad healer.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

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Btw, what's the JP tank's take on this issue?
Same as ours?
MOAR TANK DEEPS!!@!!? - ?
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I took a look at the JP TANK forums and there are several threads on the first page of the forum about this issue:
About VIT
Please make VIT+STR accessories

There are also threads about PLD being bad in Alex Savage. So, they are talking about the same kind of issues as EN forums.

If this see's the change we're looking for... I'll be so rich lmao :D +1