"Huge lack of tanks and healers in the game"

So I think we all learned that if you go AFK, change to DPS first? :confused:

No need to cite anecdotal evidence when you have real data at this point. There's 3 times as many DPS for every tank or healer.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

No need to cite anecdotal evidence when you have real data at this point. There's 3 times as many DPS for every tank or healer.

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Funnily enough, the eorzea census data is contradictory. If you count and add the number of people player ast + sch + whm, it gives you a larger percentage than that role breakdown graph.

SE doesn't share any info about their methodology in the slightest so it's impossible to say why this might be. But the data isn't very trustworthy.

my main is brd , but after leveling SCH to 60, i heal DR all the time , by the time my bard to finally enters , my healer is leaving the dungeon, its not like i need gear from expert dungeons ....

level a tank or healer and enjoy faster queues ^^ , be the change you want to see in the world of eorzea :p

lots of tanks healers u see online ,before queuing ask in FC chat or LS if any1 wants to join....guess what? usually 5-6 dps say : ME!!!! , invite!!.....

The two tank jobs I cared to level are both 60 now so I don't normally use either one in any roulette where a sub 60 job can get XP. And I usually run EX as dps because who doesn't want to use a space laser (Deathflare)? The queue times aren't bad enough yet to encourage me into running as a healer or tank. I do run Alex normal as tank though, usually with other people in my free company. I really want that panther mount. XD

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

Just sitting there for hours and hours lengthening everyone's que times by doing nothing.

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Can't believe this actually has a like, even if it is just the one. Such entitlement.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Theres no tank shortage.

There IS a shortage of tanks willing to put up with PuGs in the DF though.

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Pretty much this.

I like to heal in this game, it's fun. But i don't like to heal pugs. I can hardly do one a day. It will either be the most stressful part of my week, or a breeze. And i don't like them odds.

I can't even run with my FC because only a handful of them have actually reached 60, the rest just procrastinate.

The only PUGs I run are on my daily roulettes. Other than that I'm running with FC and LS mates. But you won't usually see ME standing around town afk lol. I have alt jobs to level, stuff to craft and gather, and generally too much to do.

I have to agree with the others in this topic if you want tank Que times level a tank that is what I did. This is especially helpful for when they reintroduced old content through dungeon atmas. Although I have to say tanking or healing isn't for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Firepower

You don't get many tanks in duty finder because of this:

Expert roulette - "you are not pulling enough", "wear STR accessories"
Levelling roulette - "don't pull those enemies", "speed up", I want to kill them all", "I'll pull these enemies for you"
Main Scenario - "Don't you know the shortcuts?" "run past these mobs and click that button"

On top of this it is generally accepted that you automatically know every single piece of information about every pull, boss and dungeon even before you have even entered it.

For DPS you just turn up and follow the tank and nobody will say anything to you even if you suck. If the healer stands around and just tops off the tank's HP and does nothing else, it goes a little slower but nobody mentions anything. But as soon as the Tank has a bit extra HP doesn't stance dance or pull every mob in the dungeon even if its their first time they are instantly the worst players in the world. All for maybe 1-3 minutes off the total run time.

It frustrates me when I really want to continue playing DRK but just slowly slip towards going back to MNK because of all the additional frustration caused by the player base towards the role.

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Amen. That guy knows how things goes.

I took a forced break (new family and kids) now i'm coming back in the game playing more often. But I got my lvl 60, doing dungeons one at a time, and when I enter, this is what I type:

"Heya guys, first time in here, please be gentle ^^ "

there shouldn't be a real need to "be gentle" but I was lucky so far to encounter great people and understanding.

also, I hate speed runs.

I'm here to spend my precious free time when I'm not working, not taking care of the kids, and wifey, to play a game, and having fun (got my iLvl180 Sword and Shield that I can dye yesterday, very happy woot!)

In MMORPGs, I was always a Demonologist/Black Mage/Magic-you-name-it type of glass cannon.

This game, when I saw the long queues to get things done, I've soon realized that you must Heal and Tank to get better queues.

Something happened while doing that.

As a DPS, I've learned that every class has it's own potential for mistakes, and the pressure is very different. Even if I'm not the one to blast people unless being treated miserably myself, that gave me more perception towards the game, and why someone does this instead of that etc..

And.. I learned to pretty like the Tank roles! ^^

If someone has never played in this FFXIV all types of Characters, I don't think their opinions counts, except knowing their job (one and only) well.

This is a game, if we are speed running to get all the tomes in one day, where is the fun in it?

For some, that could be their fun.

Respect those in which it ain't so.

No matter the age, we'll get through the trial/dungeon/whatever, even if slower than expected, some are learning and open to new tips to improve, but no one is forced to play the way others want them to be.

Let's have fun everyone instead of being the number one! there will always someone to surpass you at some point, so let's enjoy the ride that this good game deserves!

/Cheer

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Originally Posted by Catwho

SE's own survey results say that there are around 20% healers, 20% tanks, and 60% DPS.

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A role breakdown like that it makes too much sense to start making the dungeons 5 man with 1 tank 1 healer and 3 dps. And 10 man trials with 2 tanks 2 healers and 6 dps. Almost like the 20% 20% 60% would work out just about right. But nah that makes too much sense.

And the responses in this thread show why tanks are hated by a majority of dps. That attitude tanks have of being better than everyone else and dps are below the lowest of scum. I only ever run my dungeons solo in DF for my roulettes and never see the things most tanks will come on here and claim. The tank does big pulls the party adjusts. The tank does small pulls the party adjusts. Usually without saying anything the party just goes with the flow of what the tank is doing. So if you're going into Df with the attitude shown on these forums and in this thread then maybe the problem is you, the tank.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

A role breakdown like that it makes too much sense to start making the dungeons 5 man with 1 tank 1 healer and 3 dps. And 10 man trials with 2 tanks 2 healers and 6 dps. Almost like the 20% 20% 60% would work out just about right. But nah that makes too much sense.

And the responses in this thread show why tanks are hated by a majority of dps. That attitude tanks have of being better than everyone else and dps are below the lowest of scum. I only ever run my dungeons solo in DF for my roulettes and never see the things most tanks will come on here and claim. The tank does big pulls the party adjusts. The tank does small pulls the party adjusts. Usually without saying anything the party just goes with the flow of what the tank is doing. So if you're going into Df with the attitude shown on these forums and in this thread then maybe the problem is you, the tank.

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You are right about attitude. it is everything.

No matter if your are DPS, Healer or tank, the person behind the console/PC is what's scary sometimes.

If everyone would think of this game as an MMO, and think as a Team, things would be more enjoyable for everyone around.

If you want to have bad attitude/not a team player, uninstall and play solo games.

I do PuGs even if I could ask Friends from different FCs, and so far I was lucky to encounter decent people, only a few where a bit edgy.

It has to start somewhere, and a good attitude must start with ourselves.

I'm really sad that Ulathskullsplitter isn't using Warrior. Y'know, with the axe and ogre horned helms and all.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

I'm really sad that Ulathskullsplitter isn't using Warrior. Y'know, with the axe and ogre horned helms and all.

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LOL. That was the plan when I started playing at the beginning of 1.0. Started as a marauder and leveled it to 50 but then SE changed it form a aoe based melee dps into a tank.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

LOL. That was the plan when I started playing at the beginning of 1.0. Started as a marauder and leveled it to 50 but then SE changed it form a aoe based melee dps into a tank.

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I guess Ulath would find dragoon an acceptable alternative. I GUESS.

;)

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

And the responses in this thread show why tanks are hated by a majority of dps. That attitude tanks have of being better than everyone else and dps are below the lowest of scum. Usually without saying anything the party just goes with the flow of what the tank is doing. So if you're going into Df with the attitude shown on these forums and in this thread then maybe the problem is you, the tank.

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This from a #lolDrg smh, anyway, I apologize that us tanks are the epitome of awesomeness (Sit back down PLD! nice try though) and that we are in short supply outside of our FC/LS groups because: 1) we make friends soo easily. 2)The thought of running with random herp derps gives me Delirium Tremens(Latin, look it up #google). In short, why would I want to waste my time in Stranger Danger DF when I can Blitz through it while having a convo with ppl I like?

#ByeFelicia

Having played both tank and healer for extended periods at end game, here is why there is a tank shortage: Running dungeons gets boring. It's oddly refreshing to do world bosses and look for hunts, since those actually capitalize on the community aspect of the game. Something that cannot be satisfied by cross-server dungeon groups.

One of the reasons anyone plays a tank or healer is to be useful to a team of players. There is very little long term benefit to the gratitude gained from a duty finder group.

People can say anything they want, that tanking is boring, it's mind numbing, but at the end of the day the truth is it's the only role that can never slack in a dungeon. Hence why there isn't enough tank willing to risk random players on DF.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

This from a #lolDrg smh, anyway, I apologize that us tanks are the epitome of awesomeness (Sit back down PLD! nice try though) and that we are in short supply outside of our FC/LS groups because: 1) we make friends soo easily. 2)The thought of running with random herp derps gives me Delirium Tremens(Latin, look it up #google). In short, why would I want to waste my time in Stranger Danger DF when I can Blitz through it while having a convo with ppl I like?

#ByeFelicia

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Warrior superior job. We are gods. Obey our orders mortals.

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Originally Posted by Shori

My only answer to anyoen struggling with queue lengths is use party finder or join an FC, or even (*gasp*) level up a tank/heal job yourself.

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The only problem with option 2. I'd ONLY tank/heal for people I knew (I'm probably not the only one) so in the end it wouldn't help solve the problem much either.

Most people that are a tank or healer have actual friends, so that's why you see them standing in town afk and capped and not playing with you.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Most people that are a tank or healer have actual friends, so that's why you see them standing in town afk and capped and not playing with you.

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I think this is more or less the issue. It's no secret that duty finder groups can be extremely unpleasant. Everyone gets criticized, but tanks and healers simply can't skip out on responsibilities or miss a beat without the entire party feeling the reprecussions. DPS have responsibilities as well, but unless you're in the midst of a DPS-check, the party won't suffer because one person made a mistake in their rotation.

So when a tank or healer gets criticized...well, I don't want to say it means more, but it's taken to heart more. And, for the party, it can affect the entire run.

Truth be told, I almost never heal for anyone but my tank. It's not because I don't like healing for random people, but because I've had far too many tanks let me die and then blame me for "stealing aggro" on something in a mob while healing them, even though they never even attempted to snatch the enemy back and I said I needed help the moment I was attacked. I can and will heal for others, but it's mostly to boost my experience as a healer, not because I feel like running with randoms. I can't remember what thread it was, but someone else said, "Unsolicited advice is unwanted advice"*. Unfortunately, that's oftentimes very true. I rarely see players take advice in stride, even if it's something simple, like asking them to use Flash more instead of face-pulling mobs and allowing a healer to pull something away.


*Sorry to whoever said this if it isn't the exact quote.

healers not so much,tanks yes

In previous posts, you have identified yourself as a tank main several times. I have to ask, how much time have you spent spamming roulette dungeons for the sole purpose shortening dos queue times?

Put Esoteric tomes and add a few zeroes on to the gil reward for the adventurer in need bonus for Expert/Leveling, I'll queue on my 60 tank all day in that case! :D

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Put Esoteric tomes and add a few zeroes on to the gil reward for the adventurer in need bonus for Expert/Leveling, I'll queue on my 60 tank all day in that case! :D

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Totally, so would I. Was OP's point that adventure in need bonuses should be buffed? Im not sure that's 100% clear if it is. I'm just not sure i understand why OP believes every other tank is lengthening everyone else's que times by sitting around doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Hewenttojared

Totally, so would I. Was OP's point that adventure in need bonuses should be buffed? Im not sure that's 100% clear if it is. I'm just not sure i understand why OP believes every other tank is lengthening everyone else's que times by sitting around doing nothing.

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I think his point was that he sees tanks and healers hanging out and leveling out in the world all the time and yet they are constantly in need despite his experience being that they are the most numerous. That is my interpretation of his points.

My point is a separate one, I'm saying that the most effective solution to get more tanks and healers to queue up would be to buff the bonus to add more of an incentive for tanks to queue beyond their initial roulette. The Ex roulette and leveling roulette only give their eso bonus once a day and a 5400 gil reward each subsequent run. I'd say increase those rewards drastically would entice more tanks to queue.

This is absolutely ridiculous, this thread exploded out of nowhere. The amount of people that got offended by what I said is insane. Such irony is the fact that tanks aren't queing because of the shit they have to put up with, and then multiple people in this thread give me shit because they think I'm an entitled DPS. To those who didn't get offended, my post is not directed at you.

As you can see, the character I'm posting on is a god damn TANK CLASS. I did not make this post because I'm an entitled DPS, I'm sorry it came off that way. I even clarified in my second post that I wasn't trying to cause any controversy.

The character you see is my very first character I made in this game, and I haven't been on it for a while because I don't really like the Hyur race and gated heavensward content behind the massive amount of 2.1-2.5 story. I've made a couple others on Famfrit and I currently main that male-cat-race-thing with all 3 tank classes leveled up to the max. I love to tank, and I que up for roulettes constantly not just because I'm obsessed with shortening others que times, but just because I love instanced content in the game, at any level. Yes, even tam-tara deepcroft haha. As you can see in my post history, yes I've had trouble tanking before, that was more due to item level discrepancy when I hit 50 more than dealing with bad groups which 90% of the people seem to be having problems with here. Not to mention they were over a year ago when I was still kinda new.

I must be pretty lucky because the worst I got yelled at for was forgetting to turning on Sword Oath once and it didn't even really bother me that much because once I did, he stopped his rude language. I also had a few groups trying to force a speed run but they stopped with nothing more than a mere grumble when they saw it wasn't going to work. I mean who has time to wait for another tank when it would just be faster to finish with this lower geared one right?

But there was one thing that always stuck with me. And that was the fact that I had a healer once blame a DPS for something I KNOW I did wrong as a tank, but I kept my mouth shut. I felt bad for the poor guy, he probably would get flamed for making a post of how the tank screwed up but get slammed by the forums.

"But Holyglassofwater that's just your dumb anecdotes!"

Uhh, yes.. I understand that. I think a lot of you misunderstood why I posted this. Read my second post again. I posted this with a smile on my face and not a red bum. Do you people understand why I put this title in quotes? I expected this thread to go as far as maybe one or two pages of mildly amusing posts, not an entire report of "Tank Struggle: The Truth Behind Tanks and Duty Finder and the Bitchy Entitled OP."

I choose my words wrong, so I thought I would clarify here. Please look at the class this was posted on and don't treat me like I'm one of "those guys," or "just roll a tank of it makes you so mad." I wasn't angry, but after reading some of those overdramatic replies, I may be a little now. Give me a break. Maybe I shouldn't have posted on a tank class. "Blame the tank" am I right guys?

Oh, and my OP is tagged as "impotent rage." Lovely. If you read the OP again in a lighter manner. You probably won't see the rage.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

It's oddly refreshing to do world bosses and look for hunts, since those actually capitalize on the community aspect of the game. ... One of the reasons anyone plays a tank or healer is to be useful to a team of players.

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Personal tastes. To me, world bosses, hunts, FATEs, are all the same. You are like a kitten chasing the red laser pointer across your map, zerging like a horde of locusts, not really doing anything but trying to cause as much agro as possible (tanks role, sure, but, super charged healer AOE heals purely to cause agro?). Not to mention the constant cries of "Please wait!" and everything that follows that. Hard to feel real useful to a team of players when everyone is out to cause as much agro as possible inside the mass zerg with a number of other tanks, instead of trying to do their jobs (tank, heal, DPS) and dealing with any mechanics and such.

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Originally Posted by Amiaze

I rarely see players take advice in stride, even if it's something simple, like asking them to use Flash more instead of face-pulling mobs and allowing a healer to pull something away.

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I follow an easy rule of thumb when I heal. A tank can pull however way they want, but if the mob names are still the default orange (face pulled), instead of turning red (hey he actually got something beyond face pull agro on it) then he doesn't get a heal.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Can't believe this actually has a like, even if it is just the one. Such entitlement.

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Try reading it as if I was laughing, it wasn't supposed to come off as entitled. I'm guilty of doing the same things and I main the Tank job.

After my last run, I struggled to pull myself back into trying duty finder one more time... I mean, I may have had a streak of constant bad luck, but It cant last forever... can it?

Get Lv50 PGL and Lv50 MNK... great... the PGL cant do any dmg to save his life... but w/e, I'll deal, its not that big of an issue to me honestly.

Every time there is a group of enemies, and bomb, i focus on the non bombs, so they can self destruct. (even marking non bombs 1st, so DPS dont try to be stupid and waste time on the bombs)

Sure enough, the MNK wont stop focusing on the bombs... Ok, w/e.
Here comes the self destruct... and he stuns it...
It comes again, and he stuns it again.

Repeats this repeatedly.

He wont let the d*mn things die...

He then complains to me about how he had to stun them...
As if he was of any help to the group, and somehow I was in the wrong.
I'm seriously done with DPS... They had ONE GOD D*MN JOB. "KILL MONSTERS" and they cant even do that.
I dropped group, I cant handle their trolling anymore.

Roulette is never worth the sh*t DPS put us through every single time.

Some would be tanks running with static/fc/ls, others fate tanks. The first you want in your group, the second you don't.
Others probably run as dps, since df can be really annoying to tank/heal with some of the people/egos you run into.

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

... Most often are they afk too. Just sitting there for hours and hours lengthening everyone's que times by doing nothing.

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I think this is what got people started on calling you entitled. After reading your latest post, I went back and re-read the first and it didn't come off as entitled :) The age old, you can't convey tone in text lol
In all the time I've played this game, I've seen the Adventurer In Need as DPS a total of 3 times. There's not a lack of tanks/healers, there's a lack of tanks/healers queueing. Heck, I've left a Titan Ex run as a DPS so I could try to pick up the tank spot for the DF group. Sad thing was, it worked. The tank well was that dry.

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Originally Posted by DisFlavored

I think this is what got people started on calling you entitled. After reading your latest post, I went back and re-read the first and it didn't come off as entitled :) The age old, you can't convey tone in text lol
In all the time I've played this game, I've seen the Adventurer In Need as DPS a total of 3 times. There's not a lack of tanks/healers, there's a lack of tanks/healers queueing. Heck, I've left a Titan Ex run as a DPS so I could try to pick up the tank spot for the DF group. Sad thing was, it worked. The tank well was that dry.

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The way to get around this would probably be emotes. But I didn't even think of that when I was typing this that I would come off the way that I did. It's probably how most texting arguments start too.

That's a funny example you give. Must be why SE thought it would be smart for kicked players to not be able to rejoin the same group lol.

Only in duty finder.

/tank that doesn't have a static because no one needs tanks

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Just sitting there for hours and hours lengthening everyone's que times by doing nothing.

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lol... you're too demanding.

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

Just sitting there for hours and hours lengthening everyone's que times by doing nothing.

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Sorry, wasn't aware I was supposed to be constantly queuing up for shit when I'm online.

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Originally Posted by DisFlavored

I've left a Titan Ex run as a DPS so I could try to pick up the tank spot for the DF group. Sad thing was, it worked. The tank well was that dry.

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If I could just switch to tank in a duty, that'd make me happy (a feature that was possible in RIFT). Because I've had numerous tanks as I'm running leveling or expert dungeons as a dps just bail for no reason. Not a word said, just outsies right after the first boss dies. Then we could at least limp it home with a tank, one dps, and a healer rather than standing around with our thumbs in our asses waiting for a new tank to eventually roll in. People will even so far enough to bitch about the dps that do leave the dungeon in those situations, as if most of the time it's not reasonable to sit in a fresh dungeon queue for about the same time as it would take to wait for a tank to queue in-prog.

On the other hand, I have to agree with a lot of what an earlier poster said regarding DF players in most colorful terms. I have to say that the people are the reason I don't normally queue in the DF. I don't truly mind an underperforming dps or an undergeared healer that might not be able to keep up with me like my FC or savage static can. It's those toxic players who are so stern with "I'll play how I want, and you're going to hell if you try to say otherwise" that simply won't even take the point of "hey, nin, you forgot your poison" but will instead refuse to put it on as if there are any negative impacts to doing so.

@Klamor, then you'd get people queueing as one thing expecting to switch because they don't want to do that role.

WoW did that. So many DPS warriors queueing as tanks...

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

@Klamor, then you'd get people queueing as one thing expecting to switch because they don't want to do that role.

WoW did that. So many DPS warriors queueing as tanks...

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That sort of thing happened occasionally in RIFT as well. Basically someone would queue as tank and then immediately switch to a dps role once inside and just be like "someone else can do it." Obviously, you'll find people like that everywhere. Have you looked out your window lately? lol