Huge Problem with astro pre buff, is now even worse post buff. ENMITY

How about posting a video so people might actually see whats going wrong or if it's truly "the game".

In order to rationally address the issue you are going to need to know what your HPS is and what your percentage of over heals are currently. If you have someone with a parser in your group (or if you have one yourself) then you should ask them or provide the over rate to us if you know. Saying "overheal is not an issue" really means nothing because with a potency increase the rate of over heal if being played in the same manner will also increase if not checked. This factors huge into enmity.

Also what your tank is doing absolutely matters well beyond just shield oath. Is he using to many dps rotations vs enmity rotations? Shield oath isn't in and of itself a deterrent, it adds a multiplier to the other rotations so it absolutely matters what the tank is doing beyond just being in shield oath. It could very well be the tank, you, or a combination of both.

Whining and insulting people isn't going to fix anything and being a dick isn't helping your cause. Just because you have an issue doesn't mean something is intrinsically wrong with the class. Chances are it's what you and your tank are doing that is causing the issue. You can deny this until you are blue in the face but it won't change anything.

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Originally Posted by RylaiShendelzare

A3s wasnt even cleared 4 weeks ago.

Why are you posting? in fact, why are SO many people posting who have no idea what they are talking about but see, to really not want AST to get a buff, that really is just a fix for a problem that shouldnt exist.

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https://youtu.be/VrzrBnV1Xd4

Why are you posting when you and your group should be getting good at the game? Pls stop with this nonsense. It's okay though. Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about since my group made the decision to run with an AST pre buff.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

https://youtu.be/VrzrBnV1Xd4

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I must say, that double KO is pretty impressive.

Yay DoTs ^^

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I must say, that double KO is pretty impressive.

Yay DoTs ^^

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We actually planned on ending for the night after the run before lol. Everyone was out of Drac pots and disgruntled as you can see in his chat log lol.

Astrologians have the worst enmity management of the 3 healers, period. Why is 'Your tank sucks' even part of this thread? Of course the tank will never lose hate if all he does is 123 enmity combo. That is another case of 'gitgud'. Know how much enmity combo you have to do and instead of sticking to it, do as much as dps combo as possible to spit out a bit more deeps.

OP said it got sorted by talking it out, what is there to bash down on them? Oh I guess everyone already cleared a4s and is just making fun of everyone.

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Originally Posted by Jabtangs

Oh I guess everyone already cleared a4s and is just making fun of everyone.

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Oh, just wait until most people actually pass a3s/a4s. They'll be calling it 'easy' soon enough. Always found it pretty amusing, all content becomes easy once you clear it xP

Not smashing 123 is the whole reason a tank would be good. You manage hate with your enmity combo and do dps when you have control of hate you dps however you see fit. My tanks are obviously doing something right if they're able to do that without having an issue even though we run with an AST even before the buff. It is plainly a case of git gud. Everyone always just wants their job done for them so they can smash dps keys. It's pathetic.

I've yet to hear any complaints from anyone actually using the class outside of this thread, so I'm going to say the problem is between the chair and the keyboard. Not sure WHOSE chair/keyboard, tank player or healer player, but it's one of 'em.

With one of my LS tanks, they usually out DPS any DPS who comes, and holds perfect hate w/o their tank stance. But there is a clear difference in the amount of threat generated by ASTs he says, and occasionally has to use threat combos. (Normally he doesnt, as his dmg is more than enough for any one else)
Plus card buffs (if they hit everyone in an AoE) generates a decent amount of threat, u can get max exp/gold medal in any FATE despite not doing anything else. (Get to a FATE like Gorgimera, and just throw up an AoE card buff to all 8 ppl, and you'll walk away with a gold, and max exp earned, despite doing nothing else.)

So I can agree, mechanically, there is an issue, but it is currently managable, as our tank simply just threw in a few threat combos. (Then again, he wasnt PLD, and Yoshida announced PLD was having issues with threat generation, and may or may not get a fix. (Which it didnt in the update he was talking about))

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

occasionally has to use threat combos. (Normally he doesnt, as his dmg is more than enough for any one else)

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Get out. You just proved my exact point

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

Get out. You just proved my exact point

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I wasnt trying to disprove your point lol.

Just saying they can technically generate more threat than the other healers. Which if there is a strict enough DPS check (I'm not currently in any such content) where healers and tanks were maximizing their dmg, there might be issues. But this is just me speaking hypothetically.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

But there is a clear difference in the amount of threat generated by ASTs he says, and occasionally has to use threat combos. (Normally he doesnt, as his dmg is more than enough for any one else)

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Thank you for being one of the very few that understands the purpose of this thread!

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

With one of my LS tanks, they usually out DPS any DPS who comes

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Not wanting to be mean or anything, but these dps must be hella crap if a tank can out-dps them. Or they're all average bards.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

(Get to a FATE like Gorgimera, and just throw up an AoE card buff to all 8 ppl, and you'll walk away with a gold, and max exp earned, despite doing nothing else.)

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That is actually because the whole group is working their ass off to get the gold. The individual participation needed to get a gold is actually super low compared to the group requirement, to the point where using a single cure is enough as a WHM in a party of 8 if they hard carry you.

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Originally Posted by Jabtangs

Thank you for being one of the very few that understands the purpose of this thread!

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Well, if the tank manages to hold hate simply by "occasionally using threat combos" even w/o the bonus from the tanking stance, I don't think any change to ast is really necessary. I'd just call the higher enmity an ast quirk and call it a day.

Let the fairy heal more? Doesnt impact the SCH's dps..

One last post to try and get people off the track of giving me advice and telling me im bad.


It was a issue pre buff. My PLD was using what he saw a friends PLD do in their a3s,with a whm.
This included more sword oath for dps. We had to adjust after i pulled off him.

Then we had to adjust even more post buff, wasting more unnecessary time we should be spending learning the fight.

People seem to think healer aggro means so little, so why does WHM have a aggro dump? More importantly, what harm is there in giving AST one too? Especially when they currently are the highest hate builders of all the healers.

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Originally Posted by RylaiShendelzare

One last post to try and get people off the track of giving me advice and telling me im bad.

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Maybe if you responded maturely instead of screaming that you're not doing something wrong, people would be more inclined to listen.

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It was a issue pre buff. My PLD was using what he saw a friends PLD do in their a3s,with a whm..

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So you're saying you were having trouble with enmity while healing less than the other two healers? And you think it's a problem with the class and not with your group?

You are in the minority of people who are having enmity issues with AST. That points to it being a problem with either you overhealing or the tank not holding enmity enough. There simply isn't another option, and I'm sorry you'd rather insult people than try to get better at the game.

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Originally Posted by RylaiShendelzare

One last post to try and get people off the track of giving me advice and telling me im bad.


It was a issue pre buff. My PLD was using what he saw a friends PLD do in their a3s,with a whm.
This included more sword oath for dps. We had to adjust after i pulled off him.

Then we had to adjust even more post buff, wasting more unnecessary time we should be spending learning the fight.

People seem to think healer aggro means so little, so why does WHM have a aggro dump? More importantly, what harm is there in giving AST one too? Especially when they currently are the highest hate builders of all the healers.

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I'm sorry to see you're having issues, but there was never a hate issue with AST. I've had Tyla Esmeraude come AST before the buff and after the buff and not once did we have a problem with her taking hate or pulling an incredible amount of hate so there seems to be something wrong on your end or your main tank.

lol sounds like a crybaby!!!

Waah Waah Waah, it isnt working for me so the class must be broken.

In the words of Yoshi, get gud

Actually, now that I'm leveling Astrologian, I'm having a hard time keeping aggro off me when I use a card at the very beginning of a pull. To get the most uptime for my buffs, I want to use Draw pretty much off cooldown every time it's up, but if I buff someone at the beginning of a pull, it's just like I had Regen'd on WHM and I get instant, full aggro.

It's a real annoyance to deal with tbh. >.<

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Originally Posted by Gist

Actually, now that I'm leveling Astrologian, I'm having a hard time keeping aggro off me when I use a card at the very beginning of a pull. To get the most uptime for my buffs, I want to use Draw pretty much off cooldown every time it's up, but if I buff someone at the beginning of a pull, it's just like I had Regen'd on WHM and I get instant, full aggro.

It's a real annoyance to deal with tbh. >.<

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Tell your tanks to stop face pulling.

Draw hardly generate any aggro, it wouldn't be a problem if the tank use his ranged move

I play pld since the beginning. I never got problems with hate. For this turn. Whm is really close to take hate from me :/. I don't understand. I'm on ShO using Halone. My pull is correct. If i got problem with hate, the Dps can be very close too but it's not that. They are far. So I think Whm is overhealing ?

I got a question.
DO You think If i use my Ravana wpns with full Str caracteristics + 2 jewels with Str VERSUS Ilv200 weapon of Whm, i'm not correct ? Do i have to buy esoterics weapons?

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Originally Posted by Wolfas

I play pld since the beginning. I never got problems with hate. For this turn. Whm is really close to take hate from me :/. I don't understand. I'm on ShO using Halone. My pull is correct. If i got problem with hate, the Dps can be very close too but it's not that. They are far. So I think Whm is overhealing ?

I got a question.
DO You think If i use my Ravana wpns with full Str caracteristics + 2 jewels with Str VERSUS Ilv200 weapon of Whm, i'm not correct ? Do i have to buy esoterics weapons?

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Enmity shouldn't be a problem if your WHM is using Shroud early and often, as it cuts their current enmity a significant amount. Otherwise, significant overhealing or overuse of Medica/Medica II, combined with neglecting Shroud could be the problem.

He use it only at the switch form for the boss.

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Originally Posted by Wolfas

If i use my Ravana wpns

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At that time into the 3.05 patch, you should have bought Hauteclaire already. That should have been your very first purchase tbh...

Though it's irrelevant to your question. Your WHM may be not using shroud enough

I got all the left side pieces of stuff. I's ok and ravana got deter + AS where as Hauteclaire got Deter + parry. U win 6 of Str and 8 of Deter. It's not so high.

You get WD too, which owns everything else

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Originally Posted by Wolfas

He use it only at the switch form for the boss.

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Sounds like you guys need a healer who knows how to play his job lol

As someone who actually killed AS3 as an astro and understands what you are talking about, I shall help.

First, the dps rotation of say a Paladin is less threat than a threat rotation. So reducing your agro can help them do more dps.
Second, If your doing all the aoe healing, your doing it wrong. The Other healer (who should be a sch idealy), should be doing very specific heals to reduce the amount of aoe healing you need to do, while also allowing you to stance and dps.
Basically, the highest group dps is the healers alternating who heals the aoe damage and dpsing, thus allowing more tank dps also.

examples of improvements.
On pull, Convo / Mantra / Adlo deploy (right before pull so it doesn't drop) - while you just spam malefic 2 and dots for a bit.
A single aspected helios during the aoe to top people off before the next
Indom on the second aoe heal, plus maybe another single aspected.
Example in our group HGing the first hand slap instead of sharing the cleave, thus no aoe healing.

ect ect. ...
you get the idea, its a group effort.
Also applies to white mage.

As we are currently just starting in A3S, I can't say much to this.

But that there is a difference, was very clear to me.

The fight where I did expect trouble is T9. So the day came, where we did for fun, unsynced, T9 Savage, before AST buff.

In unsync mode there is much less heal needed during golem phase. But it was still enough to get me in trouble to keep the party up and not pulling the boss to me during first heavensfall. I've no real idea, how this should be doable synced to 50 without the ability to reduce the emnity on the boss during the golem phase (healers still build emnity on the boss in that phase).

I have the solution. the one big thing i see is post buff problem, lets just go back to prebuff, aggro problem fixed.

good to see now there are more people who understands the problem.

The idea of an astro or any healer pulling off me is ridiculous. I think your tanks just need to get better.

I'm a bit baffled at this myself. I NEVER have enmity issues as an AST, but after reading this, I think it much of that comes to my favoring of Nocturnal stance up until hitting endgame. I prefer using the buffer verses regens, but hadn't given thought that the regen stacks would build that much aggro as my tanking buds generally outgear me and abuse the CDs.

If the massive DPS needs of a pally in AS3 are doing this to Diurnal Astrologians, then that is a sign that something needs tweaking!

Diurnal Sect Now reduces enmity generation.
Nocturnal Sect Now reduces enmity generation.

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Originally Posted by RylaiShendelzare

Diurnal Sect Now reduces enmity generation.
Nocturnal Sect Now reduces enmity generation.

:cool:

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It also raises threads from the dead it seems...........