A.Bene is, at best, 2-3 potency more than Adlo on a non-crit. A.Helios is, at best, 15 more potency than succor on a non-crit. You're being very over dramatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
Astrologians were fine the way they were!
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08-26-2015, 03:04 AMEudyptes
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08-26-2015, 03:11 AMLastelliSo what? You're wrong anyway. What's with that 130% bonus? That's only for aspected benefic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
Aspected helios is 300 potency, just like succor. If noct bonus is computed for aspected spells, it's 315 potency. Not a big deal. Also, Aspected helios has a longer cast time. What's your point? Succor<AH, is that it? -
08-26-2015, 03:33 AMSenzorialBoundries"You dont see a flaw in the system as long as it doesnt affect you" i'm not even trying anymore fact remains , they overbuffed a class to cater for the casual playerbase crying a moaning arround, its fine to "fix" something when its broken but not overtune it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
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08-26-2015, 03:34 AMDervy
Is it me, or is everyone forgetting that AST/SCH is, depending on your MND, 3% less overall healing than WHM/SCH, or WHM/AST, no matter what?
3% MND party buff, 1000*1.03 = 1030 mind. Exactly a 3%+ buff on your overall heals.
So, without a WHM in the party with an AST in Regen Mode:
AOE Heals:
Aspected Helios: 600 Potency
Medica II: 721 Potency
ST Regen:
Aspected Benefic: 1030
Regen: 1081.5
ST Heal:
Whatever it's called: 400
Cure: 412
So no matter whatever argument you make for AST being a better healer than a WHM (and replacing it as the "new meta"), its heals will always be less potent without a WHM in the group. You can argue about the 5% increased Haste, but that ain't buffing your HoTs, only your cast times and ST healing.
However, I can definitely see WHM/AST or WHM/SCH being the meta, depending on the turn you're doing.
A1S: WHM/AST
A2S: WHM/SCH
A3S: WHM/AST, simply because of Balance and Spear making DPS checks brainless now
A4S: I have no clue.
Speaking of DPS checks, 3% Mind is also 3% INT when you're in Clerics Stance. -
08-26-2015, 03:38 AMCupcakesuWHMs and SCHs still do their jobs better, but AST can now be an option over the two without gimping your party. That's not overbuffing. That's balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
The one thing AST does better than both SCH and WHM now is buff the party, and that's their niche to begin with.
Seems fine to me. -
08-26-2015, 03:42 AMtechnoleYeah, most numbers I've seen overlook the MND party bonus if AST is replacing WHM in full-party which is about ~28 MND. With the changes to the skill base potencies to equal level, they pretty much said they are sticking to their guns on the job party bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dervy
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08-26-2015, 03:42 AMloreleidiangelo
I assume that if either of your healers produce a 3% overheal (for both; or 6% for one, 0% for the other) that that MND bonus won't matter much in the course of an encounter.
Maths are hard, though, so maybe I'm wrong. -
08-26-2015, 03:46 AMNimueAstolat"Seems fine to me."Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupcakesu
How is doing more burst healing than a WHM "fine". It's broken. -
08-26-2015, 03:51 AMCottonCandyLand
I don't get this screaming for a AST nerf, did you even play the class before the patch? Could you heal in Dungeons and Raids? Of course you could, should you? No! Because his HEALS where way to weak and the Cards where a joke.
Will he replace the other two classes? No, why? Because WHM will always heal more and has way more "oh shit" buttons. Will he replace the SCH? No, because SCH can deal more and longer dps and has the better mp-management. The only thing that changes is that he can be played by people who like the class and want to play it in raids and stuff.
He is now a Option, not a replacement. Just because the AST is on par with WHM and SCH does not mean that those two classes will become obsolete. If you dont play AST it does not even concern you, play your class, play it good and you wont be replaced and thats it.
P.S. I'm sorry if my english isn't perfect, it's not my first language. -
08-26-2015, 03:55 AMDante_V
The AST healing kit should be on par with the others and the other two healers most definitely bring stuff that the AST does not. If you are good at your class this will have zero effect on you realistically. The whole supposing things in a vacuum really holds no weight in reality. All of the healers are viable. People are literally crying because they can't make fun of AST anymore.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UVPacgpIQL...more-tears.jpg -
08-26-2015, 03:57 AMYumi_umi
Ast now confirmed to be the best healer for farm parties.
Look forward to it when content becomes unlocked. -
08-26-2015, 04:03 AMLastelliI gave you numbers and facts, you're giving me rants and made up bs (I'm still waiting for that "130% bonus" thing). AST is not overpowered. It's actually weaker than SCH on almost every level. And it doesn't surprise me that you have yet to level your astro to 60. You have no idea what your talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
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08-26-2015, 04:07 AMNimueAstolatWhy don't you try using Synastry on a target and healing them. You now do more burst healing than a whm, but go ahead keep pushing that they aren't broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
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08-26-2015, 04:11 AMRyouAkizukiAnd...? Whats broken about that. Ast get a burst heal on a CD. I don't see how this is any different than a Sch being able to sacrifice their fairy and then spam Lustrate. Ast now has 2 powerful heals (Even though Synastry requires you to still spend MP) where the others haven't lost any. Not broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:15 AMNimueAstolatHow is the class that's main aspect is buffing now being able to out burst heal the burst healing class not broken? WHM has always been the strong healer, now AST can out burst heal a WHM while still having the ability to buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyouAkizuki
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08-26-2015, 04:22 AMCottonCandyLand
Why do you refuse to get it? The Mainjob for the AST is healing. Not buffing. AST will NEVER be stronger than WHM in raw Healingpower, if you think otherwhise...sorry no one can help you.
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08-26-2015, 04:22 AMLastelliBecause of its design, synastry will probably end up resulting in a lot of overhealing anyway. You can't realistically expect to have to heal the same target for 20 seconds and as soon as the player you used synastry on is topped, it will only be overhealing. If you want to use it to increase your hps for aoe healing spells, you have a weaker DS with a longer cooldown. It's not broken by any means. You're all reading the big numbers and not thinking about how it can work on the battlefield.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:23 AMRyouAkizukiIt's a healer, that also has buffs. Synastry is a buff... so it's still in line with it. WHM heals aren't weaker, WHM can still do AS4, WHM will still be played. Sch of course will never be replaced due to all their utlity too.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:23 AMArragomis
Translation- I used to be a special snowflake and now another person is able to heal just as good as me and im not a special snowflake anymore so im going to whine to strangers that im not a special snowflake.
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08-26-2015, 04:26 AMNimueAstolatBut they're stronger at healing than WHM now. You will not heal a tank faster with Divine Seal than an ast with Synastry. Not even up for debate you can try it yourself, I have. AST now has a stronger and longer burst-healing option than WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by CottonCandyLand
The point of AST was to trade healing power for buffing, yet now they can heal more than the "strongest" healer and buff people. -
08-26-2015, 04:29 AMNimueAstolatTranslation- I don't care that my class is broken because I main it. Who cares that it now does one of the other healers jobs better and has the benefit of buffing the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arragomis
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08-26-2015, 04:34 AMRyouAkizukiTranslation: Oh no, before I might have been replaced by another WHM but now people will replace me not only with better WHM but Ast who are good as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
If you're good at WHM, you have nothing to fear, there are just more people to replace bad WHM. WHM still has great healing, increased range on healing too. -
08-26-2015, 04:34 AMCottonCandyLandNo they're not. Divine Seal has a 60sec cd, Synastry 90sec. You can use D.S more often than you could use synastry and like someone already said, you dont use the full aspect of synastry all the time anyway since you wont be healing 1 person for the duration if he is already topped off. WHM has still the better healcds, he is still more powerfull in raw healing power. Sorry but Synastry is not 100% up all the time. If it where or if it had the same cd as D.S i would say you're right. Right now, you sound like someone who does not like the idea of three equally strong HEALjobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:35 AMAlphaSonicTranslation, I ignore the fact that WHM has Benediction, Assize, Divine Seal more DPS and better MP management than AST.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:37 AMSenzorialBoundriesTranslation , i also ignore the fact that with the new card duration increases ast brings as much party wide dps as if a whm was cleric stance dpsing.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSonic
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08-26-2015, 04:38 AMAlphaSonicGreat, now fix the MP managament and better healing CDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
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08-26-2015, 04:41 AMArragomisI play all healers for a reason so I can be an educated and informed player on all thigns healing. That being said I main astro because I enjoy it more but by no means do I think I am superior than other healers, in fact we have a place which is all we ever asked for.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:42 AMNimueAstolatYou forget that Synastry duration can also be increased. You trade the 30 extra seconds to be able to heal 2 people at once. Even if you aren't healing the same target for the entire duration, and heal another target you will still put out more healing than a WHM using divine seal. AST heal CDs are better than WHM now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CottonCandyLand
AST was never meant to be a strong healing job, it was always meant to be weaker than the others to justify the use of buffs. AST was always capable, it just required good people to play it, which is why the forums cried over healing buffs, because this community sucks in general at this game. This patch was just to appeal to the casuals who couldn't learn how to play their class right, which leads us to a equal healer that can also buff the party. Which is what makes it broken. -
08-26-2015, 04:44 AMNimueAstolatBenedicition will never be used if things go right. Assize is mainly a dps/mp management tool. Divine Seal is worse than Synastry. I agree that AST should have better MP management, it's one of the things they should have actually buffed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSonic
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08-26-2015, 04:45 AMLuvbunny
Why should SCH crying and complaint about AST buffs? I am not getting it. AST buff is still random, and yes you can now have the random buffs almost forever and ever if you get lucky, or one every 30 seconds that hits the entire party. Now all three healers have their own distinct flavors. As party leader, we can all now mix and match, try new things, and figure out which are the best combo for your party set up. We have now multiple options and strategy than the usual go to method of WHM + SCH. It is exciting, and brings out possibilities. You all should rejoice, that as healer, now you can come in three flavors, instead of bickering, complaining and crying foul, finger pointing "this job is OP, that job is OP".
I rather be SCH + Fairy who let me do DPS, convert back to heal, with aetherflow who pretty much sustain my MP, dissipation for when you get stuck with entire group of really shitty players. SCH is good, borderline OP in the right hand. AST is now just as good, and borderline OP in the right hand. Get used to it, git good at the job you choose to play :) -
08-26-2015, 04:48 AMRyouAkizukiWhat? Synastry can at best be increased by 5 seconds... but you're wasting time casting Celestial Opposition during that time. Time dilation WILL extend the TANKS buff, but the second yours goes off, so does theirs, so its worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:50 AMLuvbunnyUhm no, this patch is needed to make AST "almost" equal when it comes to abilities and uniqueness compared to the other two healers. Now AST is good, and can be an absolute OP healer in the hand of really good players, same as the other two healers. A healer who CAN buff the party, the way it should be, working as intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:50 AMAlphaSonicIf things go right AST would be the best class because it only has 1 emergency heal, let's be real.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
Divine Seal is worse than synastry but has 60 seconds cooldown.
Assize even if it's a dps/mp managament tool it's still an instant 300 potency heal in area.
Oh and i would like to know where can I find a DRG/BLM/SMN that deals 7000 DPS so i can use balance on him to compete with WHM 700 DPS with 100% uptime. -
08-26-2015, 04:51 AMNicolae
This entire thread is hilarious.
Astro is competitive now, that is it. Hefty buffs in some niche scenarios, maybe. Ultimately AST will be "welcomed" back into Savage Alex now and not be passed over barring crazy circumstances.
The Cards are still RNG, so bitching about those seems trivial as you can never GUARANTEE a specific one will ALWAYS be the one you use.
I was a "good/decent" Astro back when Alex Savage first came out and I ended up going back to SCH due to it being WAY easier and getting more out of it for being easier. Hopefully these buffs/changes bring Astro up to par.
I will agree, to some degree, that anymore BUFFS might start to make it TOO GOOD. It's at a good place now to start tweaking some of the numbers and fine tuning. -
08-26-2015, 04:52 AMNorthernLadMSPI have to say, if you are this butthurt and threatened over AST now being viable, then you must suck at this game just as much as the people you're insulting.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 04:54 AMCynfael
Anyone without experience playing all three healers at 60 really should abstain from spreading too much doom and gloom. Speculation is one thing, but the claims that are flying around in this and in other threads are pretty absurd considering that we are on Day 1 of Patch 3.07.
- Suddenly WHM is dying (according to the forums, WHM has been dying of consumption or some other mysterious soap opera/Victorian-esque disease since 2.x, so this isn't news)
- SCHs are marching in the streets because Nocturnal Field effects, namely Aspected Benefic, have gained a miniscule amount of shielding potency over base Galvanize effects (hint: Galvanize is not the entire SCH toolkit, nor is it Noct AST's)
- ASTs are now the most desired healers ever (as of...this morning...)
Just...stop.
As for the need for AST buffs, anyone running even a bit of napkin math or, god forbid, a parser, could explain why changes were necessary. Whether or not these changes were excessive or insufficient we will find out by playing for a bit longer than half a day. -
08-26-2015, 05:00 AMNimueAstolatAh this i didn't know I thought Time dialtion did work with synastry.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyouAkizuki
What's real about it? I haven't had to use Benediction in my a1s clears yet. It's a skill you won't use 90% of the time if your group is decent.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSonic
AST was almost equal, what they needed to do was make the buffs more reliable not buff the healing equal to whm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
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08-26-2015, 05:02 AMNimueAstolatI never cried over not healing good enough as a AST, not something a lot of people on this forum could say.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
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08-26-2015, 05:04 AMCottonCandyLandWhat are you talking about? AST was anything but equal. It wasn't even close to equal. AST is equal now because the job can actually heal, as long as my cards dont heal, i can't call myself a healer. if we go by your logic they would need to buff our cards into op'nes. A thing that would kill the whm instantly because then it would be AST/SCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by NimueAstolat
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08-26-2015, 05:04 AMAlphaSonic
I've never cried about the fact that WHM will be replaced by AST, and I main WHM. I don't feel threatened by AST.