But this game DOES have support for trans people - Fantasia allows you to change your character's sex/gender. What it doesn't have is support for non-binary people, but that's something different. Many (if not most) of us transwomen, post transition, don't want to be seen as transwomen, we want to be seen as women, and that's what Fantasia allows. Personally speaking, as someone in the middle of a transition and thus obviously non-binary, I'm not comfortable being non-binary. I'm just as uncomfortable with being seen as non-binary as I was being seen as male. But, when people see and/or treat me like they would any other woman, it's the best thing ever. Being trans and being binary are not opposites at all. Being non-binary and being trans are certainly not synonyms, though trans people are forced to express and be seen as non-binary during their transition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Yes, it'd be more realistic if Fantasia worked gradually over 2-6 years, but realism isn't what most people are looking for from a fantasy game. We're looking for fantasies, and instant sex/gender change for $5 is a really nice trans-person fantasy.
Oh, and speaking of trans and its presentation in this game: the boss of T9 is a transman, not a transwoman, and male pronouns are more appropriate when referring to him. His physical transformation wasn't his choice, and there's no indication given that he identifies differently due to it. Unless I missed some dialogue somewhere! And having a character in the game who is a man stuck in a woman's body (quite literally) is great for the Japanese audience - in modern Japanese culture, transmen are far more common than transwomen (I believe the opposite is true in the US).
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that being non-binary is bad or anything - it's a totally valid gender expression if it's for you! And I'm not saying that the complete lack of non-binary characters in any modern media is okay (most people don't even know what that word means). I'm just saying that being trans and being non-binary are not the same.
Also, who's to say that any random NPC (like, say, Alphinaud) wasn't born as the other gender but used a fantasia at some point in their life? Their past sex/gender history really isn't any of the Warrior of Light's business. Even though the Warrior of Light could look into it with the power of the Echo, that would be a massive violation of their privacy!
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08-21-2015, 02:38 AMNyalia
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08-21-2015, 04:52 AMDarkStaoneDragonQuote:
Originally Posted by Fersaken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelg
I wish I could give this post's more likes. -
08-21-2015, 05:29 AMDarkStaoneDragon
Can we just play the game without having this kind of stuff in the game. I mean ITS A GAME. Just because you show your "pride" isn't going to make a change in the REAL world so why post it here? Please Stop I don't want FF 14 known as a the "LGBT" game. I just want to play the game, post on the forums without all of this.
I remember a thread about a person wanting everyone to wear pink to show support for breast cancer survivors, and one that lost their lives to it. Guess what? They was told "Don't bring your real life problems into the game" same same should go for this. If your LGBT good for you, I really don't need to see it, dang-it I see and hear it enough on tv,news sites, some music. I play FF 14 to get away from real world problems and relax and I thank SE for making this wonderful game, but can we stop with the "LGBT" stuff? There are bars,
websites and clubs to support you please don't use FF 14 for this. Let's keep the "real life" problems in the real world an not in a game please, btw I used the term "real world" in my post because this isn't like the cancer post. -
08-21-2015, 07:25 AMAnnahExactlyExactly! I'm the same way with those straight folks. I have nothing against straight people but the whole attention seeking thing bothers me too! Straight people with their hand holding...kissing. I mean, double yuck! I live in the US which is suppose to be the least accepting nations, and no one gives a damn whether you are straight or not. People need to stop shoving their sex life in others faces, it's getting pretty damn ridiculous when I have to see this straight crap on FFXIV forums, on tv or even in real life public!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelg
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08-21-2015, 07:28 AMAnnah/plays violin song for your tears and rubs your backQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon
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08-21-2015, 07:35 AMKaurie
Eh, I don't see this thread as attention seeking for Pride. He made a video over a year ago and then Yoshi saw it and he met Yoshi.
This is a letter to show that he made a follow up and to thank Yoshi for his support.
He's not trying to throw his agenda down everyone's throat, he even said that he meant it to be low key. I for one think his story is pretty cool and inspirational. It's awesome to see how something that you perceive as small can become big and reach the other side of the world. -
08-21-2015, 07:46 AMDraxxion
Thank you OP for the wonderful post. It is obvious this has gone from passing on your praise to the developers to a full blown discussion about the gay community more as a whole (which these topics often do), but cheer up. You have friends and an amazing community on Gilgamesh that supports each other all the way!
On that note a bit bummed I didn't know it was going to happen or I would have joined in. Love the parades when I see them. -
08-21-2015, 11:03 AMSamcaesarMassive text block in the box, it got kinda big and it feels odd talking about it in this topic or on these forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
See, I don't really see fantasia as being the support I'm talking about, as I really doubt SE put it in with trans people in mind, like.. Outside of trans folks who start playing the game with people they're closeted to irl or maybe they come to terms with it later in life while, I'd figure most trans folks would just play as the gender they identify with. I figure fantasia (Due to the fact that it basically just lets you recreate your character) is there for anyone who just wants to drop 10$ for a change for fun. Not to mention the whole ordeal of fantasia being dubiously canon, we literally get them from the mail mysteriously (As our characters have no concept of a "Mog station"). Like.. I want to be considered like any other woman myself, but I don't want to shove the whole transgender thing in a box and kick it in the closet, in a similar way as a pansexual person I might end up in a heterosexual relationship for the rest of my life, but I don't want to hide the fact that I am pansexual. Like getting an exact consensus on this whole ordeal is nigh impossible, so I could say many (if not most) of us trans women, "post" transition or not, want to be seen as trans women, though that isn't to say your claim doesn't have a level of validity to it. Now.. I'd have to question why you associate being in the midst of transition as being "non-binary", as I don't really think there's an end to transitioning (Especially not currently) nor do you have to even touch hormones to be considered your identity of choice (As plenty of cis women have variable levels of hormones, and I know plenty of non-binary and binary trans people that either don't want hormones or can't access them). Like.. I'd really argue "trans people are forced to express and be seen as non-binary during their transition." is due in part to the way cis people (And some trans people) interpret gender identity, like do we also look at very masculine women (Such as ones with natural high testosterone levels) as non-binary as well? Like, I personally don't associate gender identity with physical appearance, so I really don't get why it has to be that way.
I mean, I'm glad fantasia fits your idea of an "ideal trans person fantasy", but fantasia certainly doesn't fit mine. Like.. Outside of the dubiousness canon-ness of fantasia or even if it is 100% canon as something even available to regular people of Eorzea, I just don't jive with the whole "You're suddenly 100% identical to a cis woman!" idea, I feel like it falsifies who I am and my struggles to have this magical solution to the issue, kinda akin to like "Taking a magical potion and waking up straight!" or something imho. I appreciate this quantitative/qualitative idea that my character can be transgender like I am, go through a generic transition like I am, et cetera.. Like.. Stuff that allows for the stereotypical traits of the opposite sex (And I'm only using the terminology of "opposite sex" due to how the game is presented) on the sex of your choice would my "ideal trans person fantasy". Stuff like "7'3 Au Ra girl with stereotypical male scale pattern and a more masculine face (IE scale chin crests and all)", "Roegadyn woman with a bit of a more square body", or just like even "Miqo'te girl that's 5'8 and has a face that's kind of masculine". It doesn't have to necessarily equate to "This is the trans option." (As a lot of cis women do have plenty of stereotypical masculine features), but it does allow for me to visualize my character as a trans person much easier. Pronoun choices and having every piece of gear being unisex would also be a pretty viable way for helping this issue as well imho. Like.. I value that I'm a woman, but I also value that I'm a trans woman. I'm not cis, nor do I really want to be as I'm prideful of who I am.
I really don't qualify the boss of T9 as a trans dude to be honest, after rewatching the cutscene all they say in regards to it is like "Huh, this is odd." but they don't seem to express anything akin to dysphoria or any particular association with being a guy either, just a "Huh this is odd, but whatever! Anyways blah blah plot spoilers about who the boss is." (Like if we're going to talk about "If I had to associate them with a transgender identity" I'd go with non-binary or agender to be honest).. And even then, I don't really consider something akin basically akin to "Mind swap" as being transgender or being proper transgender representation either. Also I'd be really interested in a citation on that claim, because off the top of my head I can think of some notable Japanese trans women, but I really can't think of any notable Japanese trans men though.. While that doesn't necessarily refute the claim you make, I do find it hard to believe that it somehow trans men are more common yet less notable within the media.
Being non-binary is being trans, but you don't have to be non-binary if you identify as a binary trans identity, like you still transition (Or not really if it how you feel about you and your gender doesn't fit the idea of transitioning) to fit your personal idea of you and your gender as any of the plethora of non-binary identities.
It's not, but like basically every bit of the post moogle quests aren't any of our business really (Like the quests in the line are quite literally "Solve/follow X while they solve X's personal problems" most of the time), they're events we observe and hey, maybe we end up being someone's confidant in one of those quests with regards to their gender identity . Plus, it's kind of hard to have any trans representation within the game whenever that sort of logic is used, like we don't really need to know anything about the NPCs but we get them.. It's kinda like saying "This game has perfect pan/bisexual representation!" by just assuming any character we meet is just showing heterosexual interests at this current moment but is actually bisexual or pansexual, like it's the different between Hauchefant (And a Miqo'te woman in the Hidden Springs) and just doing what you're talking about because we don't want to pry into fictional character's personal lives.
Like currently, considering the whole "Manderville in a dress" "joke" and the "joke" the NA translators slide in with involving certain NPC and Alphinaud's feminine appearance, I really don't think SE or the NA translators have trans people in mind with this game.
It's a game, with a story that tackles a plethora of issues. Like god forbid people use a game to help find a community that they can relate too via elements within the game. If you thing LGBT folks finding communities with games is a "problem" you might want to think a little bit about whether or not you're being bigoted based on what you're writing. Like.. I'm not much of a fan of how much of an aversion you seem to have with this whole idea of FFXIV being know as "the 'LGBT' game".. How do you think we feel when we look at 95% of the games/media that only have straight romance plots or only feature cisgender people?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon
Also, because I like going on satirical parodies with posts like these..
I play FF 14 to get away from real world problems like everyone assuming I'm straight and cis and I thank SE for making this wonderful game, but can we stop with the "straight and cisgender" stuff? There are bars, websites, and clubes to support you, please don't use FF 14 for it.
Plus like, what's wrong with showing a bit of support for breast cancer survivors? Like it's not particularly hard and I'm sure lots of people appreciate it.
Also, nice job Annah :P Usually what I go for and enjoy seeing in response to posts like that. -
08-21-2015, 01:22 PMDarkStaoneDragon
@Samcaesar I never said anything remotely close to "I had a problem with showing support for breast cancer" there was a thread a while back where a person was encouraging people to support breast cancer survivors and ones who lost their lives by wearing pink (in game) and was told by many other players to keep their real life problems out of the game, I'm all for showing support for breast cancer, heck my grandmother survived a round of it.
But back on topic, people need to be judged by their personality and who they are and not their preference, but if you did a search on straight threads and compared to the LGBT threads you'll see a huge number difference in how many threads there are, I'm not trying to offend anyone here I just think we all should leave sex orientation out of it and have fun playing the game. -
08-21-2015, 01:24 PMAdireThat might be because being straight is the societal norm and because straight people have never been a persecuted minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon
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08-21-2015, 01:55 PMFenwickI absolutely agree, people shouldn't be judged by their preference, unfortunately it happened for a long time and still happens - regardless of personality. Preference and/or gender identity is the subject matter of these parades, if you want to really get to know the people and who they are, approach them and ask and they will likely be open to telling you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon
If you aren't trying to get to know someone, you can't blame them for that. -
08-22-2015, 12:01 AMNyaliaThank you very much for posting this. :) And yes, it is weird to talk about this topic on these forums, but I feel like that's because it rarely happens. But it is relevant to the game, it is on topic, and it is a thing that I feel is worth discussing. I feel like it's hard for people to understand where you or I are coming from if all they see are replies like many on this thread, which essentially state that games shouldn't represent minorities or people with gender expressions/sexual preferences that differ from what their used to seeing in their own lives. "Everyone's the same, so we shouldn't have representation for people like you, and wanting to be represented in a game like everyone else is a cry for attention" is a position I really don't understand. (Also bizarre: "But it's a GAME! You shouldn't be represented in a GAME! I don't want to think about people like you when I'm playing a GAME!") But anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Response in spoiler tags for similar reasons:
I apologize for making some generalizations. It's a bad habit. Regarding the transpeople in Japan, that was something I should have researched before stating. It came from a conversation I had with a friend I have who lives in Japan who happens to be trans. She tells me that in all the meetups she goes to with the local trans society, the transmen far outnumber the transwomen, and have a much harder time in Japanese culture. She told me that her experience/observation is that transwomen are, relatively speaking, accepted to some degree, and transmen are very much not. But, that's just one woman's perspective and experience and observation in one region of the country, and not necessarily representative of the rest of the country.
I also apologize for projecting where I did so, and for using terminology as I think of it and not acknowledging that words have other meanings for other people. Everyone's narrative and experience is different (and valid). I don't want my physical struggles to be reflected by my character in a game - I just want to be accepted however I choose to present myself without any fuss. The physical transition has been very difficult for me, but the social transition wasn't, and an option to magically and instantly skip all that is, for me, an exciting one. But, that doesn't mean that's true for everyone (and that's okay). When I use the word "transition" I'm referring specifically to going from a gender expression and identity you are uncomfortable with to a gender expression and identity you are comfortable with. Yes, many things will never finish changing, but at some point, they will be where I want them to be (and some already are). But again, my experience is not your experience.
What I said about being non-binary, I meant, well, identity and expression are not the same thing. One is how you see yourself, the other is how others see you. Or at least, that's how I'm using those terms (I'm sure there are other definitions of them). People seeing me as non-binary doesn't make me non-binary any more than people seeing me as male makes me male. I do want to be seen and treated like any other woman. I don't want special attention drawn to myself relative to other women due to my past gender expression. And sure, I'll never be physically identical to the average ciswoman, but few ciswomen are... But again, my preferences and experiences/narrative aren't necessarily representative of others, and I shouldn't say things as if they are. And I wasn't saying it was okay that the game doesn't have support for people who want to express explicitly non-binary. I was just trying to make the point that, for some of us (or at least one of us), fantasia is enough and what we're (I'm) looking for. It'd be nice if it was cannon though - you're right about that =\
And yeah, you're right about the boss of T9, I hadn't really thought it through before typing what I did. It just bothers me when people use his physical appearance to determine what pronouns to use. And regarding Alphinaud, yes, he gets misgendered and it's presented as a joke and the characters find it funny at his expense. It's not funny, it is wrong to treat it that way, but at the same time, it's something I can totally relate to. I forgot about the Manderville scene though. That was less okay =\ It is in line with other Final Fantasies though - the trans or cross-dressing dancer in FFIV (I think she's in the Fabul inn?), the Cloud crossdressing scene in FFVII... I'm trying to think of others. I believe the Feris mistaken-gender thing was done just fine, but it's been a looong while since I played FFV, so I can't remember. -
08-22-2015, 02:59 AMSoloWingMetatron
As a gay man myself I feel I need to weigh in on this.
I have to say I kinda understand both sides of this debate. When I see specified minority groups (LGBT, Feminists, etc) I feel all they are doing is just drawing a line in the sand and not only segregating themselves from the majority but also from each other, even though they are essentially fighting for the same thing. Equality.
In order for there to be true equality, people need to stop flying these individual banners and just fly one banner of equality that includes everyone, including straight people!
On the flip side however, I think it's easy for a straight person to say "there's no need for Pride", "You're shoving your sexuality down our throats", "You're just attention seekers" when they haven't experienced prejudice/discrimination based purely on the way you were born.
Straight people take that for granted and don't realize how fortunate they are. Gay people are literally being executed in diabolical, gruesome ways all across the Middle East/Africa. Gay people as young as 14 are being sentenced to death by hanging, whilst IS are throwing gay people off buildings, burning them alive, beheading them. Even Russia has the Anti-Gay Propaganda Law, which states that same sex relationships must not be mentioned in a positive light or be subjected to youngsters in any way under the penalty of prosecution. Not to mention the high gay teen suicide rates across the Western world due to religious bigotry.
All of what I just mentioned above plus more, is exactly why Pride is still needed. To be a voice against such horrific treatment and stand as an example of what is right!
However the ideal is a world where Pride is no longer needed because true equality exists. However we do not live in such a world yet so until then Pride will be needed.
Furthermore Pride is not exclusive to just gay people. I know many straight people who attend my local Pride here in Britain. It's not some exclusive thing, straight people who are happy for equal rights have always been welcome. -
08-22-2015, 03:36 AMExponentialDecayall the characters in the game are gay until otherwise stated. yes, even the player characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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08-22-2015, 05:24 AMSouljackerQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyouretsuzan
I'll share my experience, and it's not representative of everyone, but maybe it is of some. For me, it wasn't about "pride". It wasn't about some defiant declaration that I'm a sapphist and I'm here, whether you like it or not. Perhaps, once upon a time, that's exactly what these pride parades were for. Once upon a time isn't 2015 for many of us, though.
I joined this guild several months ago because I wanted a place to fit in, and I joined the parade and marched because I wanted to have a fun day with my friends. We drank, we hung out on mumble, we laughed,we messed up, and overall we just had a really stellar time with one another. Not once did anyone shout anything in game about it, not once did we troll or harass other people, we just quietly put together our little rainbow and walked one zone, and flew another. There was no fanfare, and the only ones who even knew the time and date of the march were members of Taint. All of Gilgamesh (except that one low level who stumbled upon us lol) was completely oblivious to what we were up to.
There was nothing attention-whorey about it. So, please keep this in mind as you look at the responses in this thread. This was something that we did for ourselves, and for each other, and our leader saw fit to share it with the rest of the world so maybe, just maybe, people who are scared and alone realize they have somewhere to go.
And that's my opinion on it, expressed as politely as possible. -
08-22-2015, 05:39 AMHyouretsuzanI'm glad you shed light on this event. I'm happy you guys did this and had a blast doing so. What I didn't like was people coming in the thread and spouting the quotes that you quoted from me. Like, people can't even have fun without someone coming here and making a mountain out of a mole hill. Like, I knew this was gonna happen 'cause every thread I stumble that even hints LGBT will have these people swarming in and just spouting negative nonsense. I suppose it was too hard for them to simply ignore the thread and move on with their lives. But no, they decided to come in and express how "annoying" it is to see stuff like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljacker
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08-22-2015, 08:06 AMSouljacker
I don't want you to think I used your quote because I was attacking you. You just had them all conveniently together and I agreed with your "popcorn it" approach.
The truth is, we really didn't have any agenda. It wasn't about anyone else. It wasn't about society at large. It was just something that is uniquely LGBT (pride parades) that cascaded down to our group and we just wanted to play something aside from raids with each other. In the entire time that we put this together we talked to each other, we coordinated our colors and verified who is what color, we organized our chocobos, we decided who is going to follow whom and how we are going to line up... I don't think any one of us at any time thought "Oyea this will show them!" Nah, we just wanted to put weird colors on ourselves (I was grape purple lol) and hang out. It was supremely silly and ultimately fun. I wish we could have included the entire server, but this thread is a pretty good indication of why that's still a few decades off. Regardless of anyone's actual intention, some may interpret it in a way that we really didn't mean it. That's to be expected.
Still, I will do it again next year if we do another one, and it will be for the same reasons as this year. I love this game, I love my friends, and I love to have ridiculously drunk fun times. There isn't a hidden depth. We just wanted to do something fun that LGBT could relate to.
That's a parade. And it was FABULOUS!
See you all in game! -
08-22-2015, 11:14 AM_Pigzig
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08-22-2015, 07:14 PMPomelo
I'm not getting involved in this debate but I'm so jealous that your FC isnt on my server it sounds amazing :/
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08-22-2015, 08:25 PMSamcaesarOdd feelings aside, I definitely think discussion like this is fairly important for sure! And I can definitely agree with your commentary regarding folks' statements regarding claims like "cries for attention" and "Games shouldn't have folks like you" sorta stuff. I mean.. I think part of the issue definitely comes from a whole "Well I'm currently satisfied, I don't get why you're not satisfied! This game is a-okay" and due to them not really having similar experiences (Nor will they ever be in that situation considering I doubt there will ever be a situation where media will only have genderless/non-cishet people) they don't see the importance of it.. We've gotta hope that by having discussion and talking about how we value it we can at least garner some sympathy in the very least!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
And I apologize for making you feel like you did :P Sorry! I suppose I should definitely keep in mind operational definitions in the future myself. It's always good to get an actual Japanese person's view on the whole ordeal when talking about purpose! Though, I have to ask, and apologies in advance if this is too invasive, but why bother even having this whole idea that your PC is trans in the first place? Like, I'd figure it'd just be easier to just go "My PC is a cisgender, end of story" instead of having this whole ordeal with them finding a fantasia and it solving all their woes. Thank you for defining your specific meaning of transition in this context though! It'll help clarify some stuff in the discussion, which is good for readers in general :P Best of luck in your transition, hope it won't be too hard.
Well, I do think you're using the most common definition for gender identity, but I personally see "gender expression" as the personal way you express your own gender. Like my major issue with defining gender expression based on external opinions is that ultimately relates to a whole "Well x sees me as non-binary, y sees me as super effeminate" and so effectively you end up with a bunch of conflicting information.. Now there's some really interesting discussion I recently read with regards to how we interpret "male" features in comparison to "female" features on human faces and how that ends up basically meaning for every male feature you need four female features to balance this out (Discussed in this book! "Gender: An Ethnomethodological Approach" by Suzanna Kessler, Wendy McKenna, which I may pick up out of interest).. Further there's also a cultural ordeal with what we define as masculine and feminine as well too, there's been various studies on romantic languages in which case random people were asked to define things that are pronounced in masculine ways compared to feminine ways from country to country, this basically ended up with a Violin (One of the examples I remember) being associated with very femininity associated traits by French people (IIRC, as I think they treat violins as feminine nouns in the language) while it'd be associated with very masculine associated traits by German people (Again IIRC, as I think the German language treats violins as a masculine noun).. Also similar, the way we've swapped pink and blue as colors for boys and girls within the past century. This basically kind of leads me to my issue with defining expression via external opinion.. Which is by defining gender expression with external interpretations to come into play with personal matters, you may as well be seen as a guy in one country and a girl in the next. But that's largely me going on a semi tangent, and I can definitely see how you can come to your conclusion based on the society we currently live in.. That whole tangent being said as well, I just wish we had some bones thrown towards us folks where fantasia doesn't satisfy us. (And I'm adding a new paragraph here to break things up)
Like.. The addition of the Au Ra has brought up some really dissatisfying feelings with this game and the way the various races are portrayed due to their incredibly sexually dimorphic species with absolutely no leeway for the girls (I could argue you could make a somewhat feminine guy facially with one of the faces, though height and scales are always an issue, while a masculine girl is neigh impossible) and it kinda just leaves me feeling completely unsatisfied with every race besides the incredibly feminine-leaning androgynous Lalafell (In which I figure a transgender Lalafell isn't so hard to visualize with what we've got in the game).. I could understand not adding a "Thin guy Roe/Bulky girl Roe" for a while, but I really wish they'd make heights for the sexes of each race equal, adding a few masculine and feminine faces for girls and guys respectively of each race, and allow races to have options between some of the stereotypical "Male/Female" traits of each race (e.g. allowing Au Ra to choose which scale pattern they'd prefer or allow the mixing of facial markings for the Miqo'te). That'd be the ideal way to address my needs/wants as a transgender person playing this game, and I really don't think adding more facial options and equalizing the heights would be too difficult at least.
It's fine :P I'm like.. Really into analyzing the way gender occurs in fictional media, and I found the boss of T9 kinda interesting but hey. Both the Alphinaud "joke" and Manderville scene kinda made me uncomfortableI dunno, this game (And Final Fantasy) in general strikes me as very odd with the way it handles it all. With Final Fantasy in general, there's loads of feminine people (Though there does seem to be a good bit more feminine villains than protagonists ((And those protagonists tend to lean more androgynous imho)) from what I've seen which is problematic but I won't go into that, at the moment.), but the exact handling of femininity has always been awkward. I'm not really too too familiar with Feris or this character you're talking about in FFIV, though looking at the wiki I kinda wish they kept Feris gender neutral or had her swap between presenting as a guy and girl throughout FFV.. But that's unlikely of happening any time soon. I am however, a good bit more familiar with the FFVII Cloud scene.. And I'm not looking forward to that in the remake to be honest :\ Even if that part of the story is suppose to be seen as "Hey! Guys wearing traditionally feminine clothing is fine, don't be silly." (As I've seen some people interpret the part as), but if it is, I feel like it fails miserably at that, due to Cloud's discomfort of it all (As he's the player character, ie the one you're suppose to identify with most), the intent of it all so that Cloud can trick Don Corneo (The idea of "men" dressing up to trick people for more "private" affairs in final fantasy also happens in FFVIII which makes me a bit uncomfortable in my honest opinion), and the handling of some of the minor characters involved in the mini games. I mean.. Final Fantasy isn't the only piece of media that does this sorta stuff, heck imho, it lies firmly in the majority with very little in the opposite of positive representation gender expression variance or (And even less on this one) trans characters much to my displeasure, but I can only hope this sorta stuff improves (and improves rather quickly and soon) in the series as a whole.. But currently that kind of feels like a hope based in fantasy (heh ; ;).
Oooh ho, trust me I wish I could think that, but I don't think I could fool myself like that :PQuote:
Originally Posted by ExponentialDecay
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08-22-2015, 08:37 PMSiwy
As an ally, I'm glad to see that the community is here for those who need it; the friends to talk to, the safe space to go and be themselves. There's a small FC on Bryn that's LGBT friendly (last I checked).