Dissipation vs Divine Seal

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Originally Posted by Pentt

I like how you just completey ignore the point of the ability, the AF stack.

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The AF stack that you have to spend 2 of on energy drain (which get acc checked with no acc gear) just to come out MP equivalent, and then have time to hardcast a summon or spend your swiftcast (probably on CD if you're in a bad enough situation to use this ability anyway).

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

Every job have a very situational skill, Dissipation is SCH's.

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The only situation in which Dissipation is useful is a dps burn phase. If you have an actual healing emergency it's almost always a mistake to use.

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Originally Posted by Pentt

SCH does not need buffs. Dissapation is fine. Why would we need something this grossly overpowered while our AST brothers are suffering is beyond me.

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Dissipation is total crap. Pretending otherwise is your prerogative. No one complains louder than astrologians so I'm sure they'll be overpowered in no time.

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Originally Posted by Pentt

Comparing 3 lustrates to 10 embraces is comedic, one can be used in half a second, the other can take up to 25. I think I've given up on trying to explain that dissapation is an emergency cooldown for extreme situations, people keep trying to twist it into something it isn't.

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No other healing job can pump out a theoretical 6x600 potency heals in 6 seconds. Meaning there is 0 content designed for that level of healing because then scholar would be mandatory and people would cry.

I think I've given up on trying to explain that dissipation is a bad emergency cooldown for non-existent situations, that leaves you worse-off than when you began, people keep trying to twist it into something it isn't. Half the people in this thread haven't even followed OP's rhetorical flourish so I'm not sure why I was expecting anything substantive.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

I think I've given up on trying to explain that dissipation is a bad emergency cooldown for non-existent situations, that leaves you worse-off than when you began, people keep trying to twist it into something it isn't. Half the people in this thread haven't even followed OP's rhetorical flourish so I'm not sure why I was expecting anything substantive.

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Hi again. You must have not done any savage Alexander, either?

Yes, dissipation will leave you worse off if you
A) Don't resummon your fairy as soon as available.
B) BRD or MCH do not activate MP refresh skills.
C) Second healer not backing you up, e.i. Lack of communication.
D) Several weeks in without eso gear for piety and/or food that help curb summoning cost.
E) Using the ability without for thought.

Dissipation is a terrible skill for people who with no intention to raid in difficult content because is is a defacto raid ability.

get over it, dissipation is fine, it has its uses for healing and just for getting stacks back.

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Originally Posted by Blessedbythesun

Hi again. You must have not done any savage Alexander, either?

Yes, dissipation will leave you worse off if you
A) Don't resummon your fairy as soon as available.
B) BRD or MCH do not activate MP refresh skills.
C) Second healer not backing you up, e.i. Lack of communication.
D) Several weeks in without eso gear for piety and/or food that help curb summoning cost.
E) Using the ability without for thought.

Dissipation is a terrible skill for people who with no intention to raid in difficult content because is is a defacto raid ability.

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Please point out other lvl 60 abilities that require 2+ other party members to pick up your slack. I'll ignore the bs catty part of your post.

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Originally Posted by Pentt

The healing increase is not the point of dissapation, it's the full AF stack. It's a move for emergencies where you need to dump lustrates into something and there's no time or you flubbed your AF management(topping a tank off for busters in a1s after prey, final phase of a2s If the tanks are getting too many stacks. Etc).

Generally speaking you dont want to use this ability, but it can save a wipe.

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I completely agree that this is how it's supposed to be used. It's one of those skills you leave on the backburner of your hotbar until that one situational instance you need it. I don't think it's a very good CD, but I understand its intended use.

They should make the fairy return to you once the healing buff wears off though. I don't think it would be a particularly amazing CD with that change, but it might see more regular use.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

Please point out other lvl 60 abilities that require 2+ other party members to pick up your slack. I'll ignore the bs catty part of your post.

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Uh, I don't know of any content that exists that need more than two players so I will take that as a typo. Anyway, I couldn't tell you, I don't play any other jobs in raid content. I do know when the WHM is low on MP, I am helping by picking up their slack so they can refresh their MP. That should teamwork 101.

You can ignore my "bs catty part" all you want but the simple matter of fact is that the skill, for better or worse, has its uses where it is intended. Bitch all you want, but if you have been doing AS as SCH or watched SCH pov clear playthoughs, you will see dissipation being used for the obvious.

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Originally Posted by Blessedbythesun

Uh, I don't know of any content that exists that need more than two players so I will take that as a typo. Anyway, I couldn't tell you, I don't play any other jobs in raid content. I do know when the WHM is low on MP, I am helping by picking up their slack so they can refresh their MP. That should teamwork 101.

You can ignore my "bs catty part" all you want but the simple matter of fact is that the skill, for better or worse, has its uses where it is intended. Bitch all you want, but if you have been doing AS as SCH or watched SCH pov clear playthoughs, you will see dissipation being used for the obvious.

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There was no typo you just can't seem to follow simple sentences.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

There was no typo you just can't seem to follow simple sentences.

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I thought about replying to your earlier response but since you've devloved to arguing about grammar I don't see the point. I've already mentioned specific situations on fights where the spell can see use but you refuse to acknowledge them, it's pretty clear you've not done much of Savage.

Just going to agree to disagree at this point, if your whining gets disspation buffed l will deifinitely be happy but I'm not holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

There was no typo you just can't seem to follow simple sentences.

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Wellington was going to edit it because I read it wrong but it's hard with out an edit button. My stance and rest of my post is still the same.

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Originally Posted by Pentt

I thought about replying to your earlier response but since you've devloved to arguing about grammar I don't see the point. I've already mentioned specific situations on fights where the spell can see use but you refuse to acknowledge them, it's pretty clear you've not done much of Savage.

Just going to agree to disagree at this point, if your whining gets dissipation buffed l will deifinitely be happy but I'm not holding my breath.

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I actually said nothing about grammar. Nice try on faux-outrage though. I've mentioned various places where it has uses. They're just overly punishing and situational to the point where I think the ability is bad and a mistake 99.5% of the time.

I'm sorry that you think everyone who doesn't agree with you is a whiner.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

I actually said nothing about grammar. Nice try on faux-outrage though. I've mentioned various places where it has uses. They're just overly punishing and situational to the point where I think the ability is bad and a mistake 99.5% of the time.

I'm sorry that you think everyone who doesn't agree with you is a whiner.

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I agree on that point. It is a terrible ability. I disagree with notion of using it "as intended," but I am and so are other endgame SCH. I am hard pressed to call it a mistake or useless other wise, spite the detrimental dismissal of our fairies and flaws that takes an unnecessary long time to learn how to work around, which is currently relying on your party... Which isn't a stretch since we should already be doing so.

Dissipation gives aetherflow stacks. That's all it needs to do honestly, good in a pinch.

Added for Synastry.

Lol.

Synastry buffs healing by 20%, Marks a party member to receive 40% of all your heals and therefore is healed an additional 40% when you single target heal them and has a cool down of 90 seconds. .-.

They said they had to hold on Dissipation power because it could be too strong. And now we have this synasty and Aspected Benefic on nocturnal now shield more than non-crit Adlos with lot less mana. AST was buffed more than it deserved, maybe if we keep crying Dissipation will get useful.

In all honesty i have used dissipation but never successfully, but it is something better suited if you are extremely good at sch healing and you know how exactly to set up your heals/mitigation fast and effectively when shit hits the fan. If you don't time it right it is a useless skill, if you use the skill as you please and cannot resume normal healing/mp management compared to before your farire was summoned you eventually cripple your teams efforts.

Also when i mean set up your heals means you are fully aware of your cooldowns and can string it to the best of your abilities, even if you can type stuff like rouse + fey illumi + WD + dissi + emergency and aldo/succor or whatever, the question is can you actually do it in practice when all things fall apart? I doubt many of us can and since most of us can't, realizing the full potential of the ability is really something we probably can't grasp yet until we do.

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Originally Posted by Niryco

Also when i mean set up your heals means you are fully aware of your cooldowns and can string it to the best of your abilities, even if you can type stuff like rouse + fey illumi + WD + dissi + emergency and aldo/succor or whatever, the question is can you actually do it in practice when all things fall apart? I doubt many of us can and since most of us can't, realizing the full potential of the ability is really something we probably can't grasp yet until we do.

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That sounds way too complicated and impossible to pull off in a real situation. Also a ton of mana wasted when I can just keep the fairy up and Rouse + Whispering Dawn.

A roused fairy can heal like a second healer. NOT WORTH IT.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

That sounds way too complicated and impossible to pull off in a real situation. Also a ton of mana wasted when I can just keep the fairy up and Rouse + Whispering Dawn.

A roused fairy can heal like a second healer. NOT WORTH IT.

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The fact it sounds impossible and when you try it in practice it takes about 5 to a good 10 seconds to prepare which means you as a player have to be extremely perceptive, but that is how dissipation is amazing.

In one instant I try to imagine dissipation more as a sch's way of becoming a team tank, just imagine how you mitigate big hits with your defensive cooldowns and off cooldowns that you weave in as a tank. It is sort of the same thing but the boost in "healing power" makes our mitigation for this one hit (probably raid wipe) really strong and may just grant everyone a silver of health so we can live through our mistake. Even as a tank if you use all your cooldowns in one fell sweep, you are probably going to be so naked after that and if another big hit comes straight after, you die. So in a way it works the same way but we need have a 30 seconds window to make our cooldowns work for us.

Another is when you just need to top up people and the benefit comes in from the aetherflow stacks, in about 30 seconds we become a semi whm who can top up people instead of focusing on mitigating at a great cost of mana.

Heck it can also be used as a raid defensive cooldown for a raid wide aoe or a damage that the party simply doesn't have the health to take for that one hit alone.

And there would be many more types of situations to use it. The fact we call it situational is because we can't imagine ourselves using it in any situations except when things mess up, but honestly when things mess up we probably get too caught up trying to solve it using our 2.0 methods and other new skills that we forget to practice using dissipation itself as a form of recovery.

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Originally Posted by Niryco

The fact it sounds impossible and when you try it in practice it takes about 5 to a good 10 seconds to prepare which means you as a player have to be extremely perceptive, but that is how dissipation is amazing.

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There is no situation that requires such preparation and no content that requires that amount of vast healing. The sacrifice to overall HOT isn't worth it. It is a foolish move.

If the boss is going to die in 10 seconds, maybe. However its not worth the loss of HPS and mana you burn attempting it.

Your worse off unless the fight is about to end.

Dissipation is useless , there should not even be an argument about it.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Yeah, and in that 10 seconds I could be passively healing the tank. There is no situation that requires such preparation and no content that requires that amount of vast healing. The sacrifice to overall HOT isn't worth it. It is a foolish move.

If the boss is going to die in 10 seconds, maybe. However its not worth the loss of HPS and mana you burn attempting it.

Your worse off unless the fight is about to end.

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Sure you can try to become an all out tank in 10 seconds, but that is one of dissipation's uses. Simply put if we talk about saying how dissipation doesn't have a day to day on casual content, in theorycraft or meta talk that is true. The numbers don't support it since we waste alot of resources for an ability to simply say correct the mistakes of others when we can wipe and just redo it for instance.

But when you do it in practice, this is honestly a skill that has more uses than we can describe. It isn't just the situation that makes the ability worthwhile but how we use it in any situation that makes it amazing. A more perceptive healer is needed to make it work that is all i can say from my experience using it, even in normal everyday content.

I want to help you understand, and well this is probably the best way i can put it, if you look at the big picture why it can't be compared to something like divine seal/syntary in normal content usage is that unlike WHM/ASTs we carry alot of survival utility that is amazing when they crit or when used in one hit situations. Dissipation helps us unlock all this utility at one go(aetherflow assuming you had none) with enhance healing power and gives us the option to mitigate just this one attack or recover from it. But we can't jump right away to say it is an oh shit button, instead it is like a mitigation utility refresh, something which we never really seem "need" since most of the time we assume we have it all under control.

You need to be really good at using your utility to find some use in this and well prepared ahead of the fight. If you still feel unconvinced, then all i can say is wish you the best of luck hoping that this one skill alone gets buffed.

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Originally Posted by Niryco

Sure you can try to become an all out tank in 10 seconds, but that is one of dissipation's uses. Simply put if we talk about saying how dissipation doesn't have a day to day on casual content, in theorycraft or meta talk that is true. The numbers don't support it since we waste alot of resources for an ability to simply say correct the mistakes of others when we can wipe and just redo it for instance.

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If you are that bad off in the fight, you are going to wipe anyways in current content. Sorry.

It is useless. I can theorycraft all day about what it "could" do. However what it "does" is make you worse off for a good 20-25 seconds.

It literally takes away an Aetherflow's worth of Mana from you and decreases your healing over time.

Dissipation isn't SCH's Synastry/Divine Seal equivalent. They have Rouse and Fey Illumination (20% for 20s like Synastry).

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Originally Posted by Cupcakesu

Dissipation isn't SCH's Synastry/Divine Seal equivalent. They have Rouse and Fey Illumination (20% for 20s like Synastry).

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Except that Illumination helps both healers.

It is also unusable with Selene up.

It also has 30 sec longer CD than Synastry and 60 sec (double) longer CD than Divine Seal.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Except that Illumination helps both healers.

It is also unusable with Selene up.

It also has 30 sec longer CD than Synastry and 60 sec (double) longer CD than Divine Seal.

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Why is it a bad thing that Illumination helps both Healers? That's something that works in FAVOR of SCH. It's a bonus, not a negative, and doesn't really work towards an argument that SCH is somehow lacking in this department. On top of that, Rouse is 40% additional healing on your fairy. And yes, while Dissipation is not an equivalent, it's still there and an option on top of Illumination and Rouse.

So... what's the problem here, again?

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Originally Posted by Cupcakesu

Why is it a bad thing that Illumination helps both Healers? That's something that works in FAVOR of SCH. It's a bonus, not a negative, and doesn't really work towards an argument that SCH is somehow lacking in this department. On top of that, Rouse is 40% additional healing on your fairy. And yes, while Dissipation is not an equivalent, it's still there and an option on top of Illumination and Rouse.

So... what's the problem here, again?

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40% aditional healing on your fairy will just make it how its "suppossed" to be , in HW embrace got ninja nerfed into oblivion and the 300 pot is misleading.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

40% aditional healing on your fairy will just make it how its "suppossed" to be , in HW embrace got ninja nerfed into oblivion and the 300 pot is misleading.

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And this matters... how? You still have an additional source of free healing. It's essentially a perma-Regen and/or perma-Synastry. It's not like the game is making you pick between Rouse and Illumination. You have both. Go nuts.

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Originally Posted by Cupcakesu

And this matters... how? You still have an additional source of free healing. It's essentially a perma-Regen and/or perma-Synastry. It's not like the game is making you pick between Rouse and Illumination. You have both. Go nuts.

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implying any serious sch uses Eos on 8man content.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

implying any serious sch uses Eos on 8man content.

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That's not my problem. You have the choice. If you want the Haste buff and AoE-cleanse you need to give up Illumination. Can't have everything at once, now, can you?
The option is always there. Feel free to take it. If you're not taking Eos it's because you didn't need the extra healing anyway.

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Originally Posted by Cupcakesu

That's not my problem. You have the choice. If you want the Haste buff and AoE-cleanse you need to give up Illumination. Can't have everything at once, now, can you?

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let me tell you something now you have heals on par with whm , base shields stronger than a sch and the ability to chose what you want to do AND cards on top of that , mindblowing right?

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

implying any serious sch uses Eos on 8man content.

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As an FYI, Elysium used Eos in their World First A3S clear (they had Selene out initial, switched to Eos after)

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

let me tell you something now you have heals on par with whm , base shields stronger than a sch and the ability to chose what you want to do AND cards on top of that , mindblowing right?

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If the information I'm seeing is correct, your AST is 45 and your WHM 50. You don't seem to be in a great position to compare the healer jobs and make the implication that AST is now so much better than the other two.

The only use for dissipation I've found is for planned fairy switching with swift-cast up or coming off cooldown within the 30s, you going to be spending the mana anyway might as well get the 3 stacks as a bonus outside of this the ability is just poo, almost as bad as the original lightspeed. People saying otherwise are just wearing rose-colored shades, and need to take them off. Other than that is not useful at all, to reiterate the +20% only works on channeled spells doesn't apply to Indom/Lustrate, so that doesn't translate really well to burst better burst AoE healing(e.g. +240hp on a 1200hp succor isn't that much), the 20% extra to single target heals, adlo/physic(300/400), do not make up for the potency lost from Embrace (200).

Dissipation is used to swap fairies in fights while being rewarded for it. There's no use to use eos in phase 1 of A1S, but eos is very helpful in the second half of the fight for covenanting tankbusters and AOE healing if you don't run a WHM, and my comp doesn't.
So, You have Selene for two ATK speed increases > Dissipation to increase DPS (which returns ~2,700 mana via energy drains whereas fairy costs ~1,700 to summon) > eos for AOE healing/tankbusters
Also, after you summon the fairy, you immediately have aetherflow back up from CD, so you don't lose any mana whatsoever.

On A2S, dissipation allows for more energy drains/banes and it raises SCH DPS alot because of how high SCH dps is on AOE packs due to bane.

Keep in mind that SCH doesn't generally heal until ~59% hp on oppressor on A1S, and doesn't usually need to heal until around wave#7 out of 9 waves on A2S. Dissipation helps with managing DPS mana costs as well as allowing for more spotheal lustrates if needed, AND increasing overall DPS.

And this is the worst skill we have IMO.

To even begin with, you can't compare dissipation to divine seal or Synastry. We are completely different classes.

Divine seal is a staple of WHM which is a tool depended upon HEAVILY.
Synastry is one of ASTs only emergency CDs to increase HPS to catch up to manageable levels.
SCH does not even need Dissipation to function at all. We are complete without it. If you took away WHM's divine seal for instance, the class would be extremely underpowered.