Crafting is dead

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Originally Posted by Kekeri

So, what's the time-frame to fully gear all 8?

Honestly, I missed the time-wall for Poetics, and I find the idea of 3 weeks for a weapon (I have about three weeks left on my sub) to be too much. I'm also a builder-o'-the-realm though, and so I decided to see if crafting was in a better place (and then I could do that instead of esoteric grinding). It seems to actually be worse considering leveling just one crafter isn't particularly viable financially. Ouch.

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It's like 8.2 weeks or something to just buy the gear for a single class or something like that. I did the math earlier but am not sure if I'm remembering correctly. Assuming that number is correct it puts it at 65.6 weeks to gear all 8 using only the scrip items.

At some point it would be more cost efficient to buy the materials and craft some gear, but still.

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Originally Posted by Kekeri

So, what's the time-frame to fully gear all 8?

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Well, first we need to compare HQ i170 meldable gear (crafted) and i180 not meldable token gear

for example sake lets compare the GSM bodies: i170 HQ: 4 CP 70 Control 225 Craftmanship - i180 token: 4 CP 75 Control 239 Craftmanship

18 token for the body + 1 counterfoil (i have no clue how to get them yet)

Materials for the crafted body: 4 token for the materials and after that a shitload of luck to HQ it in the beginning even with melded gear, 447 CP and specialization skills. (not to mention the 4 field demi materia, the 14 precrafts and items you need from fieldcraft - aka get 4950 scrip for a stupid book so you can get 1 or 2 materials)

If you just go with token gear (hell, i know that's what ill be doing for wvr/ltw so i can craft the rest of the gear, maybe...) you will need 48 token for the gear + 26 for the tool, so 74 total, or 3700 scrip - or 8 weeks + 100 scrip from the next week. So a good 2 month for one class.

Which means in the end if you just want to go with token gear you will need a total of 66 weeks to be able to get them all. Or 1 year and 3 month 1 week. Overkill FTW!

If you just get token gear for WVR/LTW and craft the rest tho, you will be considerably faster. You will be able to get 2 pieces per week, sometimes 3. But hey, that still puts you down 16 weeks of mindless grinding for materials

Meh ... haven't done my homework, I'll admit that up front. But unless the materials to create the crafted gear are similarly time-gated, I could see getting a few pieces of token gear, just enough t HQ the crafted stuff, and then just make that. No point in fully outfitting with the token gear.

Why does se aleays have to go to the extremes >_>
Its like they dunno when's enough is enough.
Its such a hardcore grind ( involves master demi & fc3 AGAIN WTF ) that requires old grindy stuff from 2.x era.
So its like a grind cheese sandwich. You grind all of that just for glamour and furniture yay...

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Meh ... haven't done my homework, I'll admit that up front. But unless the materials to create the crafted gear are similarly time-gated, I could see getting a few pieces of token gear, just enough t HQ the crafted stuff, and then just make that. No point in fully outfitting with the token gear.

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They are. They require 3-4 (for left side and tools) materials, made by 5 items from red scripts. You buy a set of 5 with 50 red scrips. As such you are limited to only obtaining 9 materials per week. Which translates to 2-3 items made each week.

Since every single 2* item requires these items, you wont be making anything new for selling or for friends/fc, for as long as you are equiping yourself.

Well THAT bytes ...

Without even looking at the Red scrip gating, just seeing the mc and fc3 demi makes me want to hang it up. I came back a couple months ago, and desynth is only like 70. The thought of going back to farm/craft/buy old crap just to get skill to obtain my own demi makes me mad. it feels like they want to shoehorn this system in to keep that system relevant, but for those with low/no desynth skill, it is just another wall to climb. That in the face of the scrip gate plus if what you can craft after all that work even having value... yea... i dunno.

I'm hoping part 2 of patch 3.05 to bring some good news to crafting. please.

I'm glad I'm not the only one disheartened at the current state of crafting. It just looks... awful. I enjoyed a lot of the 2.X series, because you could make reasonable progress.

But this new system? I can't say I've enjoyed any of it and am nearing my breaking point. From the ridiculous amount of mats required and the pitiful drop rates on enemies to the all-but-worthless nature of crafting battle gear, they've done nothing but kill whatever crafting spirit I had left. This new system isn't friendly to veterans or newcomers. It sucks, plain and simple.

Maybe I'll come back to it in a few months. As it stands now, I have little interest to continue.

Well, to me it seems like they tried the World of Warcraft approach this time with the time gated progression for crafting. Can't say I mind it that much, if the Item you craft would at least be on par with the top (or 5 iLvL below) raid gear. But as it stands, I hardly see that much purpose for crafting really.

What are those changes or second parts of 3.05 people are talking about though?

I'll hold my horse until Thursdays to see if the difficulty of getting the redscrip would be at least similar, if not easier, than the echatl sealant, which would mean we can spend a load of gil if we wanted to gear up all our crafters in few weeks. This is similar to gearing to Artisan gears x 8.

If they cant get the casual and non-crafters interested in getting redscrip because of its difficulty, then i guess there will be literally no supply of redscrip material in the marketboard and hence, the 50 to 66 weeks of gearing would be our best choice.

3.05 is split up into two maintenance sessions. We got the first one last night, which introduced Savage Alex and the new PvP ground, among other things. There will be another one tomorrow that will introduce the means by which we will acquire red scrips, along with some unknown crafting and gathering adjustments. Your guess as to what they'll entail is as good as anyone else's. Personally, I'm not holding out for any kind of salvation. I doubt they'd kick us all in the groin like this in one patch only to walk it back two days later.

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Originally Posted by XLauncher

Personally, I'm not holding out for any kind of salvation. I doubt they'd kick us all in the groin like this in one patch only to walk it back two days later.

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I guess you can say that considering the availability of blue scripts only to high level crafters. Not even to those level 50 crafters focusing on gearing their DOM/DOW first.

I expect to see the favour nodes for gatherers having these items. The gatherers that have max-melded already will be able to obtain them with their red scrips and sell them. Those that do not, will use their red scrips to gear up first. Seems pretty reasonable.

I expect the crafters that are max-melded will use their red scrips to get mats and craft items, while those that decided not to (the entire reason SE said they created scrips) will first gear up a class with red scrips. By then, these forums will be full of complaints about people not being able to craft these in HQ. You will then have the progression crafters, having made their own HQ crafted gear and melded it, selling the HQ items for a few mill a piece while people with red scrip gear learn to craft these. Looks completely reasonable, and as intended.

It may take longer to saturate the market with materials, but that is not a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

If crafters focus on progression, nothing will be on sale for months, by which point 3.1 will roll around and the gear will already be obsolete. They're not even worth crafting for glamour because for some strange reason they have the exact same models as the 1 star crafts,

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Woah woah woah,

They freaking Re-skinned items for new glamor AGAIN!?!?!

WHEN WILL THIS GLAMOR LAZINESS END?!?!?

Seriously! WTF do our subscriptions go towards now-a-days!?!?

RIOT! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Agree crafting is dead, unless you have so much time on your hands that you can level multiple characters to have all specializations by yourself and that way you can get more red scrips per week. Though I thought the whole point of this game is to not have to make multiple characters and to have everything on one character. They can easily fix this by removing weekly cap from red scrips, kinda like gear from talan was in mor dhona. You could buy full set in 1 day.

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Originally Posted by Netherblood

Agree crafting is dead, unless you have so much time on your hands that you can level multiple characters to have all specializations by yourself and that way you can get more red scrips per week. Though I thought the whole point of this game is to not have to make multiple characters and to have everything on one character. They can easily fix this by removing weekly cap from red scrips, kinda like gear from talan was in mor dhona. You could buy full set in 1 day.

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Or, keep Red Scrips, keep the cap on Red Scrips, but make the exact same items obtainable via... lets say 3x as many Blue Scrips?
As people have said in other threads, crafting is a game where the most important resource is TIME. Not skill, but time... so if someone wants to spend some stupid amount of time grinding Blue Scrips to get gear... let them!

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Originally Posted by Rath

I expect to see the favour nodes for gatherers having these items. The gatherers that have max-melded already will be able to obtain them with their red scrips and sell them. Those that do not, will use their red scrips to gear up first. Seems pretty reasonable.

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The favour system will likely reward the mats needed in combination with a red scrip token for the new red scrip mats since they are currently unobtainable.

Crafting is in no way, shape or form dead. I have been making a small fortune of late from crafters buying my HW content materials which I gathered and it is the same for everyone else I know in game of which I then pump that same money back in to level my own crafters quickly via the markets.

There may be an issue with red scripts but it is having little to no effect on the economy of my world. If anything the economy is thriving due to all the new recipes and materials despite any complaints you have about blue or red scripts. I have been making money almost as fast as I have been spending it and that is thanks to how vibrant the crafting community currently is in their desire to craft.

My 2 Gil is that this sounds about as bad as 4-star when it was first introduced. A good week or two after patch, Ehcatl Sealants were around half a million Gil a pop. I had estimated the cost of buying all the Ehcatl Sealants, MCDs, and FC3s necessary for full gear to about 40 million Gil. All that for what? To make sub-par i110 left side gear that used COIL DROPS. Allagan leathers were 500-800k a pop for months on my server.

I basically said screw this, I'm going to gear myself with Poetics, use 3-star to make Gil, and hope prices come down eventually.

I look at this and have to wonder is it really that much worse? Mats gated behind red scrips instead of coils? Red scrips instead of Ehcatl sealants? At least you don't have to grind pointless Ixali crap for months to be able to get red scrips like you did for Ehcatl sealants.

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Originally Posted by Talia_Hailwind

Woah woah woah,

They freaking Re-skinned items for new glamor AGAIN!?!?!

WHEN WILL THIS GLAMOR LAZINESS END?!?!?

Seriously! WTF do our subscriptions go towards now-a-days!?!?

RIOT! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

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I think the design team has empty idea about new clothes. In much much time all mages still with a monotone curtains dress :/

The difference is even casual non-crafters could get and sell sealant from doing extremely simple beastman dailiies. Many, many, many, many did. It's why the system worked at all. Unless red scrips are equally easy to get, you will not be seeing anyone but the top-end crafters getting them. And a top-end crafter will not be selling the mats you can buy with them, at least not for anything less than 10mil-50mil a piece. I know I wouldn't sell such a precious commodity for less.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

I look at this and have to wonder is it really that much worse? Mats gated behind red scrips instead of coils? Red scrips instead of Ehcatl sealants? At least you don't have to grind pointless Ixali crap for months to be able to get red scrips like you did for Ehcatl sealants.

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The weekly cap is 450, you need for example 300 to get enough mats to *attempt* to craft it in HQ (NQ would be worthless, as it's no good for glam, being a re-skin).

Looks like they will only be avaliable to players with lvl 58+ main class and lvl 56+ crafts at least.

If the above is correct, then end-game crafting in 3.0 will be an utter waste of time/gil.

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

The difference is even casual non-crafters could get and sell sealant from doing extremely simple beastman dailiies.

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Sealants were also only used for the crafer/gather gears, these new gated mats will be used for all.

Inb4 selling hq moonbeam thread, 5 mil a piece.

If they're dumb enough to sell it that cheap, you'd be a fool not to buy it. Like I said, I expect, if anyone actually decides to sell these, it will be for bare minimum 10mil a piece, most likely rising much higher, and that's just for the raw mats themselves, let alone an actual HQ crafted mat like moonbeam thread. The actual gear I'd bet would sit at 50-100mil a piece if anyone actually tried to sell that.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Crafting is in no way, shape or form dead. I have been making a small fortune of late from crafters buying my HW content materials which I gathered and it is the same for everyone else I know in game of which I then pump that same money back in to level my own crafters quickly via the markets.

There may be an issue with red scripts but it is having little to no effect on the economy of my world. If anything the economy is thriving due to all the new recipes and materials despite any complaints you have about blue or red scripts. I have been making money almost as fast as I have been spending it and that is thanks to how vibrant the crafting community currently is in their desire to craft.

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The mats for the recipes aren't out yet so your point is moot.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

The mats for the recipes aren't out yet so your point is moot.

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My point is not moot. The thread claims crafting is dead, it is not and that is a fact. Crafting is not only alive and well but thriving currently so the OP should of made the title maybe 'crafting may be impacted by red script issues'. The current thread title is a fallacy and it is just melodramatic scaremongering. If the OP just wants to whine about the flaws of the red scripts then there are already threads talking about that which are not as ridiculous, melodramatic and hyperbolic about the state of crafting compared to this one. Yes there is a problem with red scripts but no crafting is not dead, not in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

If they're dumb enough to sell it that cheap, you'd be a fool not to buy it. Like I said, I expect, if anyone actually decides to sell these, it will be for bare minimum 10mil a piece, most likely rising much higher, and that's just for the raw mats themselves, let alone an actual HQ crafted mat like moonbeam thread. The actual gear I'd bet would sit at 50-100mil a piece if anyone actually tried to sell that.

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They wont be 10mil each when you need in effect 30 (300 scripts) to make some items.

Nobody is going to be paying 300mil for the mats to attempt to make 1 robe HQ lol.

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

If they're dumb enough to sell it that cheap, you'd be a fool not to buy it. Like I said, I expect, if anyone actually decides to sell these, it will be for bare minimum 10mil a piece, most likely rising much higher, and that's just for the raw mats themselves, let alone an actual HQ crafted mat like moonbeam thread. The actual gear I'd bet would sit at 50-100mil a piece if anyone actually tried to sell that.

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You can basically expect the RMT sites to sell this stuff for...well...RMT. That's how it looks currently, anyhow.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

They wont be 10mil each when you need in effect 30 (300 scripts) to make some items.

Nobody is going to be paying 300mil for the mats to attempt to make 1 robe HQ lol.

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You'd be surprised. The massive megacrafting FC conglomerates will drop that kind of cash likes it's nothing if it allows them to jump ahead of everyone else. They will either be 10mil each or no one will dare sell them in the first place.

TBH i'm surprised they didnt release mats for law trade.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

There may be an issue with red scripts but it is having little to no effect on the economy of my world. If anything the economy is thriving due to all the new recipes and materials despite any complaints you have about blue or red scripts. I have been making money almost as fast as I have been spending it and that is thanks to how vibrant the crafting community currently is in their desire to craft.

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Difference of Open world gathering and scrip:

Everyone could gather shit and nearly everyone levels up a crafter at the beginning so prices spike until supply settles, which is pretty quick 2-3 weeks to reasonable prices if gatherable.

Red scrip on the other hand are only for crafters who dedicate to it and are used to buy gear AND materials i.e.: if you want gear to make the rest of it yourself you will use red scrip to buy it with token. If you don't youll have to pay ridiculous amounts of money to buy it. Vice versa: You can buy materials in the beginning and sell it for ridiculous amounts but then you dont have the token to make the gear yourself so you have to spend a huge amount of money to get it.

Which means: Supply will settle at a much lower rate depending how many people decide to sell mats. You can only get 9 token per week and with those 9 token you can only get 45 materials (5 needed for one material to make) per week. Remember: a non lvl 60 crafter will not be able to get those, which will lead to ridiculous prices for a long time. Ehcatl sealant was available to everyone who leveld Ixali to the max and the prices still skyrocketed. Not to mention: We need shitty Master and field III demi materia AGAIN to craft the gear. Which makes it even more ridiculous.


Oh and: You will have to bother with annoying atherial reduction if you want to be able to craft stuff. So better have all gatherers at max too or pay 1m+ for a mat

Well,
I've made over 200 mil total, had 100mil going into HW and now have half that... So, someone got that Gil.
I bet they aren't upset.

: )

It's a grind no doubt, I just can't see all the angles of it yet.
Only point I know for sure, there is definitely something missing from crafting vs 2.4, as there is essentially zero utility in crafting for the battle classes. Crafters simply crafting things for crafters is a waste of time and is actually a dead end.

Hope they plan to fix that real soon.

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

You'd be surprised. The massive megacrafting FC conglomerates will drop that kind of cash likes it's nothing if it allows them to jump ahead of everyone else. They will either be 10mil each or no one will dare sell them in the first place.

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I lucked out on a materia transmutation and got a CP 5 materia the first week of Heavensward. As far as anyone knows, it is the only one in existence on my server. I stuck it up on the MB for 9.9mil and it hasn't budged, but there was nothing to use it on until today. If you're right about those mega conglomerates, I might have a sale soon...

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

If you're right about those mega conglomerates, I might have a sale soon...

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Unless they can buy it in batches. Nobody is gona bother with single sale, if you had like ~15 materias at those prices, then you'd have a sale.

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Originally Posted by Kiyyto

Crafters simply crafting things for crafters is a waste of time and is actually a dead end. Hope they plan to fix that real soon.

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But no matter how they change it someone always gets stepped on. If you make a subpar weapon people will make it but no one will use it unless they are catching up. If you make a craftable on par people will find some way to purchase it to bypass high level content. If it is a craftable piece that requires a drop to be on par it belittles raiders achievement in some fashion. A token of some fashion that can only be recieved via someone else timevested in the raid might be the least damaging change that won't anger most people. I wonder how many times the craft dev unit got their legs cut out from under them for balance\community reasons.

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Originally Posted by Magistrella

Red scrip on the other hand are only for crafters who dedicate to it and are used to buy gear AND materials i.e.: if you want gear to make the rest of it yourself you will use red scrip to buy it with token. If you don't youll have to pay ridiculous amounts of money to buy it. Vice versa: You can buy materials in the beginning and sell it for ridiculous amounts but then you dont have the token to make the gear yourself so you have to spend a huge amount of money to get it.

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You forgot one example, working together with others in order to complete a task.

Buying materials or grinding all the scripts required are not the only options, just like how FC crafting requires multiple people present and best approached by working together to share the burden of gathering all the materials to craft things like airships etc. The specialist system is here to stay and as someone else pointed out it would not just be the rich buying the materials, you could potentially get rich from selling your own then using that gil to purchase what you cannot craft yourself.

Another point is even very few omni-crafters could craft everything themselves prior to these scripts, people who had capped all the crafting classes levels, gear and all master books etc were a tiny minority or the playerbase. I find it ironic that people are whining about the few supposedly rich people/FC's that might get a head start by spending their gil that they probably had to work hard to get more than you...yet don't see people here applying that same logic to the few people who worked hard to level and cap, gear and gain master books which have them the same advantage over others. The only real difference between the two is one worked hard to gain gil the other worked hard to level, gear and obtain books...both however comprise of the few having a slight advantage over the majority of others.

People in here are being hypocrites in their efforts to craft a flawed excuse against red scripts. There are legitimate issues with red scripts such as the low cap and high price of materials but this argument against people buying materials because through their hard work are rich enough to do so not one of them. Especially since it is not only hypocritical to take that stance but also ignores the fact you could become rich yourself selling to them and then buying any you cannot craft yourself with that gil.

The momentum of crafting has changed, thing is people weren't as careful when crafting because the "careful" "precious" materials were far and few in between. Now the concept of crafting has changed where a lot more materials are precious, you have to be extremely careful with your synthesizing and you can't just shrug and go whoops I'll just try again until I get an HQ because the dynamic of crafting has changed where materials are now more precious than ever.

Because of this there will be 2-3 groups of people, those who horde mats for themselves with their scrips, those who seek to profit, and those who do a mix of both, overall the economical aspect of crafting is going to be interesting to see how things are priced how people play the market and which end of the spectrum people decide to profit from.

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Originally Posted by Eul

I think the design team has empty idea about new clothes. In much much time all mages still with a monotone curtains dress :/

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Indeed.

Its like they've never seen a final fantasy game before.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...eymour_Art.png

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...a012Outfit.PNG

Its all about the V necks and large sleeves.

(Gonna keep posting these two pictures on here until squares gear designers get their act together)