3.05 Job Balance Request Megathread

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Originally Posted by HairyRoger

Can we not include another mch change thread in here. The suggestions presented are downright ignorant in terms of game balance. If you make buffs on the lines of some of the suggestions here, MCH will destroy everything on dps.

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And I'm sure there will be plenty of other changes asked by other classes that would overpower them as well. It's a suggestion thread, which I doubt SE would follow anyway. This also isn't a MCH only suggestion thread. All classes are welcome to participate. And we aren't exactly destroying people. I get beaten by good, equally geared drgs, mnks, and blms fairly regularly.

The same suggestions were presented by the same people multiple times over. I am all for suggestions and constructive feedback, but asking for more everything is not that. I bet other classes have the same, but I am a MCH and I can speak from MCH experience. I don't have that experience with other classes and thus not going to argue stuff I don't know enough about.

Quality of life changes are fine, 45sec cd on reload is also a change that would be good due to how cds line up. I find myself matching the damage on the classes you mentioned very often. The ones that are really good and geared will pull ahead by a bit, ofc. This is about the support / dmg philosophy of the game. I expected MCH to be weaker than what it is, to be honest. If I would put my finger on something it would be how hard you are punished for mistakes on the MCH.

Yeah, MCH can be REALLY hard to play. Most classes you can recover from a mistake pretty easily, but with MCH, you rely so much on cooldowns aligning, especially with Wildfire, that one mistake can throw your entire game off. It's one of things I love and hate about the class. It takes skill to play properly, but you're punished pretty hard for any mistake and if you do make a mistake, expect to drop a place or two on the dps charts because of it. It's one of the beefs that I legitimately have with the class. "Whoops... Hit one wrong button during all those AoEs and mechanic changes... Well, we'll lop off 150 dps as punishment. Sucks to be you." Even a DRG or ninja playing less than optimally can recover and won't lose that much dps. We basically have to play perfectly to even keep up with a decently played DRG, ninja or monk.

Infinite Flare a la 2.2 wouldn't even be good any more and the change in the way the stacks work is causing more problems than it solves including:

1) Do you know what happens if you transpose too early after flaring because of lag? You lose all your mana, you stay in Astral Fire III and you have to wait 10 seconds before you can even regenerate mana. Every class that says "messing this up is too punishing" is hilarious. How about "if you mess this up, you lose all your TP and can't regenerate it for 10 seconds".
2) There's like a fifteen year delay between casting Fire III and being able to cast FIre IV. I cast Fire III yesterday and I just now got my Astral Fire stacks and I'm offline. Ok it's actually like 0.6 seconds. That still feels like an eternity and it adds up over the course of an encounter. Because of lag.
3) STOP TESTING BLACK MAGES ON JP SERVERS. No class is as sensitive to lag as Black Mages. Bards/Machinists might have encountered this problem by now, but if you're lagging enough, if you go Skill->OGCD->Skill sometimes it can go Skill->Ski-OGCD NO SKILL FOR YOU-> Recasting the skill. When you have to keep two buffs up, every microsecond between using a skill and the buff actually coming on your bar feels like a nightmare.
4) Something something thunder is useless something something. I don't care. Take steps to make Black Mages less sensitive to lag. It didn't matter when the spell we spammed refreshed the buff we wanted to keep up, but jeez it does now.

Honestly, I love the class. But it gets absolutely hammered by lag. Ninjas talk about how annoying that extra few seconds for Mudras are (less so now that they have Huton renewal) but they never have "I used Trick Attack, whoops I lagged, whoops Suiton fell off, whoops, now Trick/Sneak attack is on cooldown" which is what happens with Enochian. No melee has "I dumped my TP on this skill. Whoops, I lagged, whoops, now I'm locked out of regenerating TP for 10 seconds." And it's all tied to those fractions of seconds between my computer talking and your computer listening.

DRG: Tie Wheeling Thrust to Chaos Thrust Combo and tie Fang and Claw to Full Thrust Combo.

Optional: Make one of those two moves different and unique.

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Originally Posted by Xenitan

complaints about Enochian due to server lag, says it's worse than Mudra lag

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Not quite what happens with Mudras the way you describe it. I have casted suiton, seen the water funnel come up on the screen and TA activate, only to have the server say, oh wait, no you didn't, how about a Raiton instead? Oh wait, you're attacking now, how about bunny instead of that Raiton? Now you get no mudra for another 15 seconds and you have lost a ton of dps.

Also other times where you enter Mudra and the button turns grey for like 3 seconds, preventing you from attacking or pressing any other buttons, because if you do, the server will bunny you because you attacked while it was thinking about what Mudra you entered.

There is also lag with Armor Crush (huton refresh) where if you use it with 1-2 seconds left, the server decides you don't get those 30 extra seconds of Huton, despite the attack connecting and visibly doing damage. Then you watch it disbelief as the last 2 seconds of your Huton ticks away.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

Not quite what happens with Mudras the way you describe it. I have casted suiton, seen the water funnel come up on the screen and TA activate, only to have the server say, oh wait, no you didn't, how about a Raiton instead? Oh wait, you're attacking now, how about bunny instead of that Raiton? Now you get no mudra for another 15 seconds and you have lost a ton of dps.

Also other times where you enter Mudra and the button turns grey for like 3 seconds, preventing you from attacking or pressing any other buttons, because if you do, the server will bunny you because you attacked while it was thinking about what Mudra you entered.

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@Xenitan

This... this is mudra lag. This is the reason people pay for a VPN network to play nin. Mudra lag can single-handly destroy nin dps.

From the sound of it, sounds like blms are having a tough time too, but please do not perpetuate that many things (if anything) is worse than bad ping for Mudras (or lag spikes). It's enough to make grown men cry.

Make botd increase the potency of dfd but not life surge since they want the signature move jump to be our highest potency attack if comboed with ps/botd.

Imo the suggested change to PB (to keep current form active upon expiration) is a little more complicated than that. During Perfect Balance you don't have a specific form, you have all of them. So there's really no current form to be kept.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

There is also lag with Armor Crush (huton refresh) where if you use it with 1-2 seconds left, the server decides you don't get those 30 extra seconds of Huton, despite the attack connecting and visibly doing damage.

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Pretty much the exact same thing can happen to mages. You can lose stacks and it sucks and then you have to do less DPS until you can get them back again. I've also had the "you did damage, it's in the combat log, but the game said "meh" situation.

I never said Black Mages had it worse than ninjas. From sheer volume, ninjas have it way worse. I may have been passionate, and it might have come off that way, but all I'm saying is that Black Mages have their own ways lag screws with them, similar to ninjas, in ways that ultimately are different from what happens to ninjas and it's pretty frustrating. The Flare thing is especially bad. The problem is that it used to be good, and then they changed it for reasons that no longer apply.

Imagine, say, Ninjas had a way to attack during mudras, but (for the sake of this thought experiment) only if the game somehow could see the future and knew you were casting Huton. And so they fix it, as they probably should have for 2.0, but in doing so, they made the mudra lag much worse. Then Heavensward comes around and you get armor crush so you're never really using Huton unless something went horribly wrong (I'm much less familiar with 3.0 ninjas, but I'm guessing that's probably the case). That change to mudras seems much more silly then, huh?

Buff Deathflare for Summoner so it does 9999 potency and a 60cd

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Buff Deathflare for Summoner so it does 9999 potency and a 60cd

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I... hope you're joking...

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Originally Posted by Leidiriv

I... hope you're joking...

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It's Akiza. So probably not.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Buff Deathflare for Summoner so it does 9999 potency and a 60cd

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With a 5 minutes cast time, I think it's totally doable^^
Hope you don't get interrupted though ;P

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Originally Posted by Maddrox

Make fist of wind passive because who uses it anyways ?

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I use it in towns :<

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Originally Posted by Xenitan

Infinite Flare a la 2.2 wouldn't even be good any more

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Good times. 'Twas already changed in 2.1, though.

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Originally Posted by bbkkristian

DRG: Tie Wheeling Thrust to Chaos Thrust Combo and tie Fang and Claw to Full Thrust Combo.

Optional: Make one of those two moves different and unique.

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Don't know what could be done to make them unique without giving us a ton of utility we shouldn't have. Something with phlebotomize, maybe? Our core abilities have a lot of interaction with each other apart from it.

Black Mage
Allow Blizzard 4 to finish casting even if Enochian or UI falls off during cast.

Add 2 seconds to astral fire and umbral ice for slightly more leeway.

Let Spell Speed affect MP regen ticks.

De-nerf flare and manawall!

Stop ley-lines being an AoE magnet please!

Machinist:

*Increase the proc chance of Slug & Clean Shots to about 70-75%.

Reason: MCH's damage potential relies on these combo skills and 50% chance to complete it is just not enough.

Scholar:

*Critical Heal rate needs to be increased.

Reason: To justify using Deployment Tactics more often. A non-critical Adloquium doesn't quite make it worth spreading out, even with Eye for an Eye.

Yeah, if no extra ammo for MCH... Split Shot to 75% would be a good compromise (still wouldn't solve the worst of unlucky cases b/c RNG is RNG but better than nothing).

OP updated with:

• Heartbreak Animation Buff

...execution abilities should look awesome... this looks like nothing; maybe a crosshair pops up over the victim's head & a sharp, tracer bolt passes through ("BOOM, HEADSHOT!")

Ninja literally leaps onto the head's of its victims & shanks them through. This ability already has tech which rigs to the head, so you could easily rig a crosshair/shot between the eyes.

when under Minuet:

Barrage increased to making a single target weapon skill hit 4 times.

River of Blood trait should allow BL/RoD to increase in potency up to 2 times if reset by either WB or VB and not on cooldown.

River of Blood trait can now trigger a special effect on Iron Jaws...if BL/RoD are reset by WB or VB and not on cooldown, the next Iron Jaws casted will 'place' both WB and VB on a target with no TP cost (proc duration 10 secs).

Sidewinder: Flaming Arrow can now give a third potency increase. Now if the target is inflicted with both DoTs and is standing in Flaming Arrow---Sidewinder will hit with the same potency pre 3.01; 450 I think it was (any 2 of the 3 will be what the max potency is now--350, with just 1 of the 3 being applied before Sidewinder use would be weaker potency--250. Without any of the 3...Sidewinder will be at it's weakest---100 potency).

Suggestions for MCH:

Get rid of our short-lived, long cooldown "support" skills (Dismantle, Rend Mind, Hypercharge). Replace with various turret stances that give these buffs/debuffs as long as the turret is in that stance. This will let us provide a dps boost to the entire party (and offset our lower innate dps) when other buffs aren't needed and allow us to switch to extra damage reduction or MP/TP regen when needed to make life easier for healers, tanks and other dps, providing some true support abilities. Also suggest removing the damage nerf when using regen abilities. Seems counterproductive to punish a class for using an ability properly, especially when they already do less damage than other classes.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

The one thing we need is SE fix Enochian so it fits our CD rotation because Enochian is delaying everything right now. They need to make Thundercloud more viable in the rotation. I don't see us needing an extended Astral Fire.

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I guess they'd have to somehow lengthen the effective duration of Enochian, or if you want to sort of encourage the use of Thundercloud procs in the rotation, have a Thundercloud proc Thunder III extend Enochian duration by a set amount without triggering Blizzard IV's diminishing returns (10 seconds, maybe?). It's a little too RNG for my tastes, but I don't see them messing with Thunder III's damage and instead think they may try to create some synergy between it and Enochian.

Added to OP:

• Gauss Barrel Attachment Recolors

...at minimum, the Gauss Barrel attachment's color/tip should match that of the weapon equipped. Beyond that, certain weapons should have unique GB attachment designs.

It's really starting to feel like MCH visuals were extremely rushed :/ please boost them, SE!

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Originally Posted by PlumpyMcduff

Added to OP:

• Gauss Barrel Attachment Recolors

...at minimum, the Gauss Barrel attachment's color/tip should match that of the weapon equipped. Beyond that, certain weapons should have unique GB attachment designs.

It's really starting to feel like MCH visuals were extremely rushed :/ please boost them, SE!

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If you have a dyeable weapon, the metal part of the gauss barrel changes to match.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

If you have a dyeable weapon, the metal part of the gauss barrel changes to match.

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True but it should match by default. Simple recolors aren't difficult or time-consuming virtually at all & there's no good reason to not put in that little added touch to prevent major clashing.

Like how the satchel should match your chest color by default too or something, but I'll settle for just GB attachment-head recolors on the regular.

Apologies if I haven't seen it. Also please make Machinist damage blunt. I honestly couldn't care if that doesn't make sense for some people, Monks need this to remain on par with Dragoons. We deal less DPS and we have less synergy with other classes (Except for the heal, however fast clears do not require Mantra so why bring a Monk over a Dragoon?), we need something that will work with our blunt resist reduction.

Ninja:
Mudra lag if possible

Armor crush as an extension onto shadow fang

Machinist:
Hot Shots - Removed, increase damage of all other skills by equal %

Reason: There is no reason this needs to exist. It's a boring ability, feels tacked on and serves no purpose other than to artificially increase the class difficulty. The class has a high enough skill floor as it is. Removing one ability won't change that.

For monk...
Please exchange Haymaker with:
Hamedo:Attack before being attacked.

Thank you. I look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

@Xenitan

This... this is mudra lag. This is the reason people pay for a VPN network to play nin. Mudra lag can single-handly destroy nin dps.

From the sound of it, sounds like blms are having a tough time too, but please do not perpetuate that many things (if anything) is worse than bad ping for Mudras (or lag spikes). It's enough to make grown men cry.

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Pretty much the same thing with smn/sch isn't it? The whole bane didn't apply your 3rd dot because you didn't wait an extra sec before applying it seems most common, but the really annoying one is those occasions where you aetherflow, your aetherflow goes on cooldown but you don't get 3 stacks or the MP refresh....just lovely sitting there for a whole min without access to key abilities due to lag

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Originally Posted by KokopokiRirinima

Apologies if I haven't seen it. Also please make Machinist damage blunt. I honestly couldn't care if that doesn't make sense for some people, Monks need this to remain on par with Dragoons. We deal less DPS and we have less synergy with other classes (Except for the heal, however fast clears do not require Mantra so why bring a Monk over a Dragoon?), we need something that will work with our blunt resist reduction.

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Unfortunately it's a necessity for MNK to contribute the lowest of the 3 melee as they are, in my and apparently the dev team's opinion. Dragon Kick is simply too strong as of SCoB and beyond, it makes things so much more survivable it can be the difference between forcing a Succor for a large portion of mechanics in T13, to everyone surviving consistently without Succor with DK up. That, and 20% Mantra, are why of the three melee, it will rightfully contribute the lowest DPS of the three. If, say, MNK did do the same amount as DRG/NIN's contribution, it'd just be the permanently go to melee as it stands and then DRG or NIN would just be plain inferior and asking for buffs.

It's not a very kind way to balance them but that's how it currently is, unfortunately. Upping MNK DPS won't fix it, some other things would have to change.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

snip

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I always found it funny that in FCoB, MNK was the best support class. What I would like to see, not at all plausible until another expansion, is to have real support classes. It would need to have it's own role. 5 man dungeons would have a tank, healer, support, and 2 dps. All main buffs and debuffs would be removed from all not support classes and given to support classes. Mudra, virus, dragon kick debuff, rage of halone debuff; and all slashing, blunt, piercing debuffs. In my opinion all the end game progression in 2.0 required a bard, and 3.0 will probably require a BRD/MCH.

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Originally Posted by Xenos74

Pretty much the same thing with smn/sch isn't it? The whole bane didn't apply your 3rd dot because you didn't wait an extra sec before applying it seems most common, but the really annoying one is those occasions where you aetherflow, your aetherflow goes on cooldown but you don't get 3 stacks or the MP refresh....just lovely sitting there for a whole min without access to key abilities due to lag

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No not even close to the same thing the Bane missing DoTs is simply because DoTs will not be transferred at full duration. There are times Mudra lag is so bad it will revert a completed Mudra. Like this: chi -> ten -> jin -> *suiton icon* -> as you are hitting ninjutsu -> reverts back to Katon; and some instances very infuriating when it does happen is when you do catch it and go to hit 'jin' it recognizes it as hitting 'jin' twice and poof rabbit medium. Rather than waiting for SE to fix it, I decided to not send anymore time with the job.

MCH
Increase Hotshot increase to 10%. Increase Ricochet cooldown to 90s. Increase Ricochet potency to 150+200 split between all targets. Reduce hypercharge cooldown to 90s. Allow turrets to contribute to wildfire. Allow turrets to benefit from Hotshot damage increase.
Our damage is centered around wildfire, our major cooldowns should at least line up with it.

Good Job SE buffing DRG (Current top class...ofc need buffs...),
BLM (good buff to enochian, legit)
AST(it was necesary, I know)...

Uninstalling FFXIV...

DRG are currently top dps in everything I've been in and they get a buff. Lol. Glad I'm leveling mine.

They didn't get a buff, they are just less punished for missing the particular positionals listed.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

They didn't get a buff, they are just less punished for missing the particular positionals listed.

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I know it doesn't change their max dps. I just find it funny that the strongest dps in the game right now is one of the only classes buffed (and I do consider it a buff because it helps even players who aren't really good do better).

Yea, its because they cry the loudest. Ninjas should make a ton of threads about how non-existent our TP is.