So about the "warrior of darkness" [spoiler]

In the trailer, Derplander changed from WAR to DRG. In the past videos, he changed from greatsword to bow to greatsword and then showed up later as a WAR. He can change his class and job just like anybody else, and at any time.

In the game, the Warrior of Darkness looked just like the Derplander did as WAR.

That is all we know. Literally everything else is assumption. We don't know whether the Warrior of Darkness has any connection at all to the Derplander. The fact that they look alike could mean nothing. Any ideas suggesting that it is more than that are pure speculation. It could mean this, it could mean that, it could mean some other thing.

Please don't anybody forget this, even if it ends up being true later that there's some connection or hint, lol.

As I stated before I see absolutely no sense in using derplander as a replacement for our character out of CGI-Sequences.

Speaking hypothetical.. how dumb would it be, if our character had the ability to have a glance at future events (enhanced echo superpowers, lol).. and then we see derplander killing Niddhog (in game engine scene), but later on it's us, 'cause we were just replaced in that ingame-scene by derplander.

What happens in CGI has not to be real in terms of "it happened exactly this way on Hydalin", just take a look at the HW-intro. Before HW CGI just said "Those things happened before: ... ", after HW even that's not the case anymore.
They could just make the protagonist of the CGIs a blonde or female or lalafell and there would be no problem at all lorewise.

But what happens in ingame scenes has to be real. When you see Cid doing stuff, he did this stuff lorewise and it was, in game reality, Cid doing it and no one other. If you see derplander it is derplander.
Or a shapeshifting creature (which likes to stay on the moon in derplander form just ffs).
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Just imaging your playing the HW-arc, when 3.x or 4.0 is released: It would be obviously very ridicolous, if you reach end of 3.0 to see derplander-WoD and then, few hours/MSQ-quests later, he transform magically into a mirror version of yourself.
From male Hyuran warrior to female lalafell whitemage? Why then Hyuran-form on the moon at all? Just for a cheap discussion starter?
There are about 1000 better ways of hinting that "WoD is a dark version of yourself", without using the CGI-replacement as an ingame-replacement for our character.
Real hints (those which would work in a book/movie/story too) and not some stupid meta-hint (where you compare two models in different media and try to transfer one's function to the other).

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Originally Posted by Alberel

People need to stop looking at Derplander as a character and realise that he's a symbol to represent all of us players.

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That would be absolutely true if the last scene was a CG.

But, with in-engine cutscene, if the WoD was supposed to only represent out counterpart, it would have been logical to give "it" the same model as us, like they actually did in the DRK quest.
Last time something like that appeared, it was in Wings Of The Goddess in FFXI, where our counterpart was, really our own character from a different world.

What if Derplander is actualy a chosen warrior from a mirror universe ? Maybe we live in the "World of Light" but each person has its counterpart in the "World of Darkness". After all, in the actual raid, we only saw a fragment of this world. Maybe the End of an Era cutscene was showing a parrallel-Louisoix, a parrallel-Bahamut, parrallel-Kan-e-Senna, etc...

or it could just be that its in a multi person dungeon so the WoD ends up taking the appearance of 1 of the members of the group which would mean that its just a temp char like in the CGI.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

The thing is Ferne explicitly compares him to other player characters. He is a real character in the same way all of your characters are. He is not an NPC and Ferne was fairly clear in that through his repeated references to player avatars.

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Yes he does make it perfectly clear, the characters in the CGs are both representative of players and characters that are traveling around Eorzea. Playable character and non playable character. We may have even seem them walking around without even noticing, a random character that have no name and can't be interacted with have you seen just walking the streets. Would really notice the Hyur Midlander if he wasn't in WAR AF?

Look at the opening movies closer. We only see them at the Battle of Silvertear, Battle of Carteneau Flats, and entering Ishgard. In fact if you look at the Ishgard trialer close it's different from ours. He is alone and stays at a dusty inn room. Someone also made a mind blow revelation that in those times we see him represent us as the player, it's through the power of the Echo.

I am not worried about the Warrior of Darkness at all. I mean look, hes using a base relic and in AF1 gear. I bet he hasn't even done Coils yet.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I am not worried about the Warrior of Darkness at all. I mean look, hes using a base relic and in AF1 gear. I bet he hasn't even done Coils yet.

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He managed to wear full DRG esoteric gear while Ishgard was still fighting Dravanian forces.

He just followed the hype for Dragoon and put WAR aside :p

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I am not worried about the Warrior of Darkness at all. I mean look, hes using a base relic and in AF1 gear. I bet he hasn't even done Coils yet.

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You must not have heard about glamours!

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That would be absolutely true if the last scene was a CG.

Snip

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Elidibus to the WoD say "you and yours". So I think we'll see a mirror version of ourselves, and Darklander is just here to represent the Warriors of Darkness, just like Derplander is here to represent the Warriors of Light.

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

Elidibus to the WoD say "you and yours". So I think we'll see a mirror version of ourselves, and Darklander is just here to represent the Warriors of Darkness, just like Derplander is here to represent the Warriors of Light.

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now that you mention it if that's true we will have to rename derplander to lightlander...

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

Elidibus to the WoD say "you and yours". So I think we'll see a mirror version of ourselves, and Darklander is just here to represent the Warriors of Darkness, just like Derplander is here to represent the Warriors of Light.

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Or we could see him, the Roe PLD, the Lala WHM, the Mi'qote BRD and the Elezen BLM :p

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Originally Posted by dragoelete

now that you mention it if that's true we will have to rename derplander to lightlander...

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He's Dragoon (like me) now, so we can name him Deadlander.

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

He's Dragoon (like me) now, so we can name him Deadlander.

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No... no... DERPlander is still appropriate.

nah i think lightlander is rather catchy...

Final Coil of Bahamut spoilers ahead:

The peoples of Eorzea already have a primal that they called upon on the brink of the calamity. It's Phoenix. That seat is already taken, you cannot be a primal called upon by the peoples of Eorzea.

(non-spoilerish version: Nopz, no chance you're a primal called by the peoples of Eorzea). Also, you've been around since before the calamity. Also, you're not the only one. Ysayle is revealed to be just the same as you just before her horrible death at the hands of the Garleans. Difference being she only had ONE crystal and thus didn't complete the blessing like you did by having all 6.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Final Coil of Bahamut spoilers ahead:

The peoples of Eorzea already have a primal that they called upon on the brink of the calamity. It's Phoenix. That seat is already taken, you cannot be a primal called upon by the peoples of Eorzea.

(non-spoilerish version: Nopz, no chance you're a primal called by the peoples of Eorzea). Also, you've been around since before the calamity. Also, you're not the only one. Ysayle is revealed to be just the same as you just before her horrible death at the hands of the Garleans. Difference being she only had ONE crystal and thus didn't complete the blessing like you did by having all 6.

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your comment doesnt changing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

your comment doesnt changing nothing.

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No no, he brings up a valid point. Louisoix took the prayers and aether at the Battle of Carteneau and ascended to the status of Primal. That used up all of those prayers as he stayed alive thanks to Bahamut. The Warrior of Light and the Warrior of Darkness couldn't have been summoned with those same prayers then. Also, where would the aether have come from to summon us? And why would Hydaelyn bless us if we were only going to constantly drain her lifeforce?

They do not call upon Phoenix, but the Twelve.

Everyone prayed for Salvation and the Twelve answered by Louisoix's hand. Alas, their power was cut too short and failed.

In a field awash with aether and prayer, the Phoenix was Leveilleur's last attempt and sacrifice to stop Bahamut.

None prayed for Phoenix and none ever will, for it was erased from everyone's memory.

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Originally Posted by Toranja

They do not call upon Phoenix, but the Twelve.

Everyone prayed for Salvation and the Twelve answered by Louisoix's hand. Alas, their power was cut too short and failed.

In a field awash with aether and prayer, the Phoenix was Leveilleur's last attempt and sacrifice to stop Bahamut.

None prayed for Phoenix and none ever will, for it was erased from everyone's memory.

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Ok, so there are a number of problems about what you said there. For one, we don't entirely know that THE Twelve (the gods, not the Primals) answered anything. We do know that Louisoix intended to summon Primal versions of the Twelve, and while he intended to cut it off short of them taking full form, Bahamut wrecked the summoning entirely, and no form of the Twelve (be they gods or Primals) were summoned.

Second, no one prayed to Phoenix, and none will, because no one witnessed it (or those that did died on the battlefield). They prayed for salvation, and for the realm to be saved and THOSE prayers were given shape as Phoenix.

1. You don't need to know what things are to pray for them. No matter what they are, the Twelve answered the call - not only once, but twice that night.

2. You are just repeating what I said. Those prayers coalesced into Phoenix per Leveilleur's choice. You will never see it again to save the realm.

Now what should really be baking everyone's noodle is: what happens if we Echo-join with our Darkness counterpart? Instant Rejoining? Or divine ascension? /tinfoil

Wtf that's a horrible title for the thread. How do you warn people of a spoiler after you name the spoiler?!
I should make a thread called "so about ishgards leader dying (spoiler)"

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Wtf that's a horrible title for the thread. How do you warn people of a spoiler after you name the spoiler?!
I should make a thread called "so about ishgards leader dying (spoiler)"

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technically the title itself is not a spoiler unless you already know the spoiler... for all someone who doesn't know the spoiler knows they could mean the DRK... as DRK is "a warrior of darkness"

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Wtf that's a horrible title for the thread. How do you warn people of a spoiler after you name the spoiler?!
I should make a thread called "so about ishgards leader dying (spoiler)"

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In the Heavensward trailer, you hear the title 'Warrior of Drakness'. So there is no spoiler there. The spoiler tag is for the discussion, taking place about the WoD.

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Originally Posted by dvoraen

Now what should really be baking everyone's noodle is: what happens if we Echo-join with our Darkness counterpart? Instant Rejoining? Or divine ascension? /tinfoil

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Short answer, Nothing good.

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Originally Posted by dvoraen

Now what should really be baking everyone's noodle is: what happens if we Echo-join with our Darkness counterpart? Instant Rejoining? Or divine ascension? /tinfoil

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Ever fight a Gradius boss? That. With the crystals as our options.

Barring this, probably either a battle in the center of the mind or a alternate universe telling of our and WoD's events that ends in a feedback loop of pain and depowering.

Will they follow the internet rules? "The hero must always lose the first fight, with a new villain"? lol

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

Will they follow the internet rules? "The hero must always lose the first fight, with a new villain"? lol

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I'm not sold that the WoD is a traditional " villain" like Lahabrea. If the pull an FF3 on us the what the WoD is trying to do is just as noble as us. That being save his/her world from destruction.

[QUOTE=Lyrica_Ashtine;3137595 Are you, the warrior of light, in fact a primal yourself? [/QUOTE]

I was actually discussing this very possibility with a friend the other day. Primals are just beings manifested, but what if the Warrior of Light is really just the symbol of everyone's hopes? You help everyone universally, not just Eorzea. Hydaelyn might call upon you because you were manifested, not because she made you. Similarly, Ysale could have been the heretic's manifestation. That could explain partly why you were so much stronger than she ever was -- because you're the warrior for all of Hydaelyn, the planet, not sure one side.

Alternatively, Warriors of Light aren't new concepts in Eorzea. The Twelve might have very well been warriors themselves. You could be a real person that took on that role simply because people wanted another warrior, so Hydaelyn bestowed the gift to you rather than twelve new people, which is likely what helped zap her strength in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Amiaze

Alternatively, Warriors of Light aren't new concepts in Eorzea. The Twelve might have very well been warriors themselves. You could be a real person that took on that role simply because people wanted another warrior, so Hydaelyn bestowed the gift to you rather than twelve new people, which is likely what helped zap her strength in the first place.

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Hopefully, it's more along the lines of this.

The whole Warrior of Light being a primal theory feels a bit cheap, to me. Prefer to believe that maybe Hydaelyn saw in our characters, a truly incorruptible spirit and that's why she chose "us" to become her champion.

Crackpot, bad story theory: the WoD is from another dimension, which is why the events of the HW trailer differ so dramatically from what's ingame. Ishgard falls, and the Ascians offer him and the other WoDs a means to save it. Merging that version of the world(Zodiark?) with Hydaelen is what the Rejoining is.

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which is why the events of the HW trailer differ so dramatically from what's ingame. Ishgard falls

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Those are not events that didn't happen. Those are events that *will* happen. The wyrm destroying Ishguard is Estinienogg in that trailer. Likely to unfold in 3.x.

We're probably born of the crystal which is why our past is mystified, but we do not consume aether, we do not destroy the land with our presence. Perhaps we have primal powers like Iceheart and the more people believe and pray and wish for us, the stronger we become because we've become a beacon of hope. 1000 years of praying and believing in salvation form Thordan's 12 allowed Thordan to become a man-god. Same could be said for us but on a different time scale. Our reputation as being larger than life quite literally makes us larger than life. Perhaps the elemental crystals we wield are conduits for power in the same vein as regular aether crystals that primals consume?

I never understood what those crystals actually are. In 2.0 they activate when we kill a primal or some other powerful being and usually the aligned element lights up (defeat Ifrit, Fire Crystal glows, etc). In 3.0 they glow kinda randomly. I don't know if these are some kind of protocrystals or anything though.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Those are not events that didn't happen. Those are events that *will* happen. The wyrm destroying Ishguard is Estinienogg in that trailer. Likely to unfold in 3.x.

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It looked like Hraesvelgar to me. Even if it's not him, it's definitely not Nidhogg unless he changes a lot after being reborn.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

It looked like Hraesvelgar to me. Even if it's not him, it's definitely not Nidhogg unless he changes a lot after being reborn.

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They addressed this at... the interview with the head of the animation. Basically, they sent the wrong concept art to the movie team, and used Hraesvelgar in the trailer, instead of Nidhogg. It's a mistake, just like the Derplander leaving his axe behind in the ARR video. When they caught it, it was to late to change.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

They addressed this at... the interview with the head of the animation. Basically, they sent the wrong concept art to the movie team, and used Hraesvelgar in the trailer, instead of Nidhogg. It's a mistake, just like the Derplander leaving his axe behind in the ARR video. When they caught it, it was to late to change.

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You sure? I mean, how could they made such a big mistake? ( heads will role for sure )
I dont really think that the events of the movie trail will happen at all, Lorolito is not a kind evil leader, that have full power over uldah, Rauban is not on prission anymore. Hraesvelgar didnt atacked us on the steps of faith. also we will not face a full army of lots of Hraesvelgars

Not really in reply to anything, just musing and writing it down before I forget...

Lahabrea said it's been a long time since he's seen a Warrior of Light (one person with the blessing, thus all of the crystals). I wonder if the twelve Archons and twelve Zodiac braves are just different ways of approaching the Era imbalance, where one crystal is given to each of a large group. To a layman, wouldn't that look a group acting as physical vessels for incarnations of the gods themselves? What if, for instance, Ahldbhar (a great Roegadyn mage said to be The Destroyer himself on the battlefield to such a degree that statues of Rhalgr are made in his likeness) was simply a bearer of a Lightning Crystal of Light?

Though, with twelve it implies that either there's two for each, or the Warriors of Light fought with the Warriors of Darkness (six astral gods, six umbral gods). Perhaps that's where Elidibus differs from the other Ascians - his plans account for this as opposed to, "Darkness will consume all! All will become nothingness!" etc. etc.

But for reasons that we'd agree with? (Desiring the rise of Zodiark so that he can actually be slain.) Or is he the classic Final Fantasy figure that seems logical and calculating in their level playing of both sides, but truly becomes an ultimate antagonist?

</scratches head> Ehhh, probably gonna need to think this through better, lol.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Not really in reply to anything, just musing and writing it down before I forget...

Lahabrea said it's been a long time since he's seen a Warrior of Light (one person with the blessing, thus all of the crystals). I wonder if the twelve Archons and twelve Zodiac braves are just different ways of approaching the Era imbalance, where one crystal is given to each of a large group. To a layman, wouldn't that look a group acting as physical vessels for incarnations of the gods themselves? What if, for instance, Ahldbhar (a great Roegadyn mage said to be The Destroyer himself on the battlefield to such a degree that statues of Rhalgr are made in his likeness) was simply a bearer of a Lightning Crystal of Light?

Though, with twelve it implies that either there's two for each, or the Warriors of Light fought with the Warriors of Darkness (six astral gods, six umbral gods). Perhaps that's where Elidibus differs from the other Ascians - his plans account for this as opposed to, "Darkness will consume all! All will become nothingness!" etc. etc.

But for reasons that we'd agree with? (Desiring the rise of Zodiark so that he can actually be slain.) Or is he the classic Final Fantasy figure that seems logical and calculating in their level playing of both sides, but truly becomes an ultimate antagonist?

</scratches head> Ehhh, probably gonna need to think this through better, lol.

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Thanks a lot Moose Sensei. Now you've got me looking for my Darksteel Foil Hat on this one. >_>

One day one of the people on this forum will find the truth on the Twelve and The Planet Crystals and then all of this can finally be put to rest. Till then <Dons Darksteel Foil Thinking Hat> TO THE DRAWING BOARD!!!

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

You sure? I mean, how could they made such a big mistake?

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I believe the team was pressed for time to get the trailer for Heavensward out and by the time the mistake was caught, they said screw it and went ahead with what they had since redoing the entire thing would be very expensive.

We have seen two Crystals of Ice at this point (what else could the crystal Iceheart had at her end be? A "normal" crystal of that size couldn't possibly summon a Primal, and she had the Echo and knew the Mothercrystal's voice), though I would expect the Warrior of Darkness to have aspected Crystals of Darkness instead of aspected Crystals of Light.