Please for future Expansions: No level Cap increasement anymore

I love when these threads pop up so SE can see how many people completely disagree with certain ideas.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Awful huh? http://i.imgur.com/OMcxVTO.png

But what does a cap have to do with a game's quality? =P I'd just like nice and even numbers.

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To be fair IGN would get a 50 year old baked potato covered in poo a 9/10 too.

I really don't understand how anyone can complain about raising the level cap. First the contstant grind for new gear of higher ilv is the same as leveling. You do stuff, and are rewarded with something that has bigger integers, which in turn mean that you are more powerful. This is leveling. it matters not whether that integer and those bigger numbers are on a piece of gear or on your character itself. Secondly this is an rpg and more specifically an mmorpg. the ENTIRE POINT is for there to constantly be more "stuff" to do that is constantly making you grow, change, and learn new stuff. FINALLY and probably most importantly, I just said new stuff. This is critical. the only way to get new abilities is to level up... that or add new abilities while keeping your level the same, which makes no sense.

P.S. I am also REALLY REALLY happy that it takes so long to get from 50 - 60, I was scared to death that the 50 - 60 jump would be a quick little hop, which would have been disappointing.

We could still learn new skills with out leveling FFXI didn't raise their level cap from 75 for a long time instead they put in the merit system that made it so instead of exp you get merit exp that you can then use to customize your job with new ability's traits and boost your stats also boost existing and new ability's. So no we don't really need a level cap raised every expansion.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

leveling in ARR was meant to be an "extended tutorial" to help you get accustomed to the gameplay and how your class/job works. In HW it just felt like filler for the story. There will always be some form of "leveling" in any game. Though I wish they would consider a "skill tree" approach to leveling this is a Final Fantasy game and I don't think they will stop until they reach that fabled lvl 99/100.

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A skill tree system in a game with heavily defined roles is a stupid idea. It just doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by maelor

P.S. I am also REALLY REALLY happy that it takes so long to get from 50 - 60, I was scared to death that the 50 - 60 jump would be a quick little hop, which would have been disappointing.

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My feelings exactly! Leveling up in an expansion is exactly what I expect/want. As others have said, the linear progression could use a bit of work, but the game is still young and has time to grow.....So it's kind of like we're leveling up WITH the game itself haha.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

As the title already says what i would wish personally for future expansions is that there is no level cap increasement which would only lead to a reset of boring level phases that no one really enjoys nowdays.

Nowdays everyone enjoys much more the experience of nice dungeons, complex boss battles and storyline... not grinding through trivial quests that no one really enjoys or is paying attention to. I understand that this is a much easier way to create content for players that increases the playtime in a total. But besides that it is nothing more than a timesink that no one really enjoys.

if you enjoy leveling there most likely will be new jobs every expansions which you have to lv from lv 1 or lv 30 on to lv 60.. which is quiet enough if you ask me.


I come from a MMorpg like Dark Age of Camelot which never increased its level cap in 10 years... it implemented content like champion levels where you had to defeat several boss encounters.. artifact weapons which could be farmed in complex open world encounters etc.


And games like Guild Wars 2 do it also without lv cap increasement. So why ever resetting the level spiral? I would welcome other, more creative content than that personally.


And at the moment i have the feeling that many people gave up leveling there classes from lv 50 to 60 after a few days and already quit before they reached the new endgame content.

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Did you just make the claim that Dark Age never increased it's level cap? Did you just hand wave the trials, champion levels, and artifacts away? You're also neglecting to mention realm abilities. Dark Age may not have increased the hard level cap, but it certainly increased the soft level cap quite a bit. There's no way a character from the base game could even compete in the current Frontiers.

The biggest problem people have with leveling is that it's not as easy to level a second job from 50 to 60 as it was a first, and that's a subjective call.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

We could still learn new skills with out leveling FFXI didn't raise their level cap from 75 for a long time instead they put in the merit system that made it so instead of exp you get merit exp that you can then use to customize your job with new ability's traits and boost your stats also boost existing and new ability's. So no we don't really need a level cap raised every expansion.

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And then they raised it to 99 with Abyssea, introduced a new fast system of leveling with Abyssea's infinite chains, and breathed new life into what had been a pretty stale game at the time. (A lot of people quit when Abyssea came out because their 75 best in slots got wrecked at level 78 by vendor gear, and boy did they miss out by doing so. Abyssea was FUN.)

There are completionists who HAVE to get ALL the jobs to 60, but you don't have to be one of them if you don't like leveling. I got all my jobs to 50 by the time the expac dropped, and now I know I probably won't take anything more than 3-4 jobs to 60 because I really don't enjoy the others. That's okay too. Yes, the grind is long, but it's nothing like XI was.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Awful huh? http://i.imgur.com/OMcxVTO.png

But what does a cap have to do with a game's quality? =P I'd just like nice and even numbers.

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I love how it's a IGN and Steam review score. The only people actually buying the game on steam are the insane fanboys. The story in itself is fine, but the battle system and how everything progresses is absolutely awful.

ok seriously this thread is really entertaining xD

I've mostly laughed because Tonkra is so stubborn so everyone shall have his/her opinion of the game...

First of all... this is a Forum.... called General Discussion... DISCUSSION!
Honestly when you wanna start a discussion... you must accept the opinion of other players also.
What you are doing is a whiny post... You don't like the game? then don't play it!
You don't want to level the new jobs? Then don't level them.
It's your choice what you are playing and how you are playing.
leveling new Jobs is optional. Not a must!

I've played many MMORPGs for years and I prefer the ones where you have lvl increase with expansions.
I like leveling. And I love the Story of this game (that's why I haven't started with HW yet because I'm still doing storyquests and sidequests).
So I really enjoy the new expansion. And I don't play in rush. I have time... this isn't a race who is the first at lvl 60, who is the first with all 60? idc! I play for fun and the story and enjoy it.

I say it again... When you don't like this game, don't play it. But stop whining!

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

I love how it's a IGN and Steam review score. The only people actually buying the game on steam are the insane fanboys. The story in itself is fine, but the battle system and how everything progresses is absolutely awful.

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No, you got that completely backwards. The story is barely intelligible garbage but the battle system is fun as fuck because you can break it over your knee practically from the word go.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

tons of filler quests that are boring as hell: and obviously there for filler purposes. seriously who isnt skipping the standard quest textboxes?

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I read all the side quests in the expansion thank you very much...some of the little side stories are actually interesting this time around and are actually little stories..especially the chain side quests...

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

I love how it's a IGN and Steam review score. The only people actually buying the game on steam are the insane fanboys. The story in itself is fine, but the battle system and how everything progresses is absolutely awful.

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It's sold over 430,000 copies on Steam according to SteamSpy, would be more accurate to say that only the insane fanboys are rating.

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Originally Posted by Mission

I read all the side quests in the expansion thank you very much...some of the little side stories are actually interesting this time around and are actually little stories..especially the chain side quests...

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Actually very true! I was surprised how interesting some of the chain side quests got.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

leveling in ARR was meant to be an "extended tutorial" to help you get accustomed to the gameplay and how your class/job works. In HW it just felt like filler for the story. There will always be some form of "leveling" in any game. Though I wish they would consider a "skill tree" approach to leveling this is a Final Fantasy game and I don't think they will stop until they reach that fabled lvl 99/100.

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Well, you know a quest is filler when it's a fetch quest or kill quest for some random NPC that lasts all but 10 minutes in gameplay time and has the reason for the quest being roughly equivalent to "Well, I need eyeballs from some monster for fishing lures. No I don't know why I need these specific eyeballs, how the fish got a taste for these eyeballs when the monster probably eats the fish, or why I can't just go kill some squirrels or something myself, but I can't get these specific eyeballs on my own so you get them for me! "

Ugh, I just hate these kinds of "quests" because they aren't quests as much as ways to mindlessly get experience points or gear. My zone maps are so littered with the remnants of me ignoring them all that I got to zoom in to view objectives on ones that actually matter.

Edit: Know you were talking about something else, this just sort of felt like it belonged with the whole skill tree thing. :p

Thank you for telling me this op never would have guessed this was how I felt. I guess that's why when the level cap was 50. I created 20 or more toons and got them all to 50 with all jobs. Try speaking and thinking for yourself. Just because you and some others feel this way doesn't mean everyone else does. Cause to be honest i like leveling that's why i play video games like this in the first place. I like seeing my character grow and am happy they are doing it this way. Please SE keep it the way you have it with every expac you get more levels cause i for one really appreciate it. Even though some like the op obviously doesn't. Also op if you really feel this way maybe this game isn't the one for you and that you should go back to the games you came from that never raised their level in ten years. Cause those games seem to be more of your style. So I hope you realize this before you get to disappointed with the next expac when they increase the level again. Cause I think they will. Also I loved the side quest i read them all as well. I really thought the one where the chocbo got killed and turned into chicken was very sad. I also liked the ones given by the moogles and the dragons. It was also nice to see brayflox make a comeback in heavensward. So yah op I say again please speak for yourself you might find that people would be more receptive of you then.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

leveling in ARR was meant to be an "extended tutorial" to help you get accustomed to the gameplay and how your class/job works

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Maybe to get accustomed to the world but not learning class\jobs. If that was the case then quests would reset when you changed jobs. Which I wish the non msq ones would do. I hate grinding dungeons and zerging fates to level.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

We could still learn new skills with out leveling FFXI didn't raise their level cap from 75 for a long time instead they put in the merit system that made it so instead of exp you get merit exp that you can then use to customize your job with new ability's traits and boost your stats also boost existing and new ability's. So no we don't really need a level cap raised every expansion.

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I played ffxi during that time and i thought it was boring as heck. Was so glad when they increased the level cap til abyssea ruined it that is. Anyway back on topic I'm glad SE and Yoshii decided to go the level up way it makes me feel good inside when I get those levels. Where as just getting new abilities would be so boring to me. Not to mention I wouldn't even know how to use them without the learning process.

I would personally suggest you find a new MMO to play. or just quit and buy an account that is already leveled to max... good luck though..

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Originally Posted by Caladius

I would personally suggest you find a new MMO to play. or just quit and buy an account that is already leveled to max... good luck though..

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such a childish reaction, nvm ;)

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Originally Posted by Delily

Did you just make the claim that Dark Age never increased it's level cap? Did you just hand wave the trials, champion levels, and artifacts away? You're also neglecting to mention realm abilities. Dark Age may not have increased the hard level cap, but it certainly increased the soft level cap quite a bit. There's no way a character from the base game could even compete in the current Frontiers.

The biggest problem people have with leveling is that it's not as easy to level a second job from 50 to 60 as it was a first, and that's a subjective call.

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equipment =/ exp level..

no it never increased the level cap.. the comparison from you is totally wrong.. its more like ilevel 100 against an ilevel 180 char...
but not lv 50 vs lv 60 character level.

im not "claiming" it.. DAOC never increased the level cap. end of discussion. And champion level skills have been more or less useless cross class skills..

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

As the title already says what i would wish personally for future expansions is that there is no level cap increasement which would only lead to a reset of boring level phases that no one really enjoys nowdays.

Nowdays everyone enjoys much more the experience of nice dungeons, complex boss battles and storyline... not grinding through trivial quests that no one really enjoys or is paying attention to. I understand that this is a much easier way to create content for players that increases the playtime in a total. But besides that it is nothing more than a timesink that no one really enjoys.

if you enjoy leveling there most likely will be new jobs every expansions which you have to lv from lv 1 or lv 30 on to lv 60.. which is quiet enough if you ask me.


I come from a MMorpg like Dark Age of Camelot which never increased its level cap in 10 years... it implemented content like champion levels where you had to defeat several boss encounters.. artifact weapons which could be farmed in complex open world encounters etc.


And games like Guild Wars 2 do it also without lv cap increasement. So why ever resetting the level spiral? I would welcome other, more creative content than that personally.



And at the moment i have the feeling that many people gave up leveling there classes from lv 50 to 60 after a few days and already quit before they reached the new endgame content.

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Just an FYI for you OP, Guild Wars 2 hasn't increased the level cap, but they have stated they will.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

equipment =/ exp level.. form of leveling.

no it never increased the level cap.. the comparison from you is totally wrong.. its more like ilevel 100 against an ilevel 180 char...
but not lv 50 vs lv 60 character level.

im not "claiming" it.. DAOC never increased the level cap. end of discussion. And champion level skills have been more or less useless cross class skills..

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I don't think you understand, equipment is a form of leveling.

The level at which you stop gaining experience is the hard level cap; equipment is the soft level cap. Don't believe me? Try doing A4 in AF armor. Try doing savage coil in AF. You can't, your character is not strong enough to. The same goes for DAoC, take someone with their epic armor and pit them against someone who is templated. Unless the former has stunlock, he will be decimated. Then you throw in master levels, champion abilities, and realm abilities. Sure, DAoC never increased the hard level cap, but that doesn't mean they didn't stop adding in levels.

OP Grow up seriously grow up, or quit and uninstall a game that does not grow at a regular clip will stagnate and die, gaining power and increases to limiters such as gear are what keeps an mmo living and breathing. If you can't handle that and your little gaggle of supporters are equally as unbending then this is not the place or game for you.

I enjoy the leveling up process of games myself, but on the gear side I wouldn't mind them opening up some materia slot's for endgame gear like trait's/ability materia giving me something more to achieve but that my opinion :P

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Originally Posted by TThibi

OP Grow up seriously grow up, or quit and uninstall a game that does not grow at a regular clip will stagnate and die, gaining power and increases to limiters such as gear are what keeps an mmo living and breathing. If you can't handle that and your little gaggle of supporters are equally as unbending then this is not the place or game for you.

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You tell me to grow up by writing childish flames? tzuh.. seriously.. "Quit or uninstall" *nenenenä* ... this is a discussion board if you havent realised that.

Of course RPGs are based on progression, but there is much of a difference to do it dull or to do it in a way that entertains.. and they havent changed anything in regard to ARR. its just a secure formula for them.

Same old fashioned quest design of the 2004's when WOW came out.. and which cant even be compared to the quest design of nowdays games like GW2 or ESO


and this was critizised in almost every review articles concerning heavensward which i have read so far. So right, its just my own opinion. But if the FFXIV board is full of fanboys who cant even discuss on a normal base, just because once opinion is slightly different and unpopular..

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The level at which you stop gaining experience is the hard level cap; equipment is the soft level cap.

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Yes, so then FF14 has both now.. level cap increase and item levels...


and what i talked about was that DAOC never increased the Character Level cap... and dont be fool to try to argument it in the way there was something like that.. as you already said.. there is a difference in between a character level and item level.. which in heavensward both was increased (character level + item levels) and additionally item levels are even constantly increased in between the content patches. so there is much a difference ... your example would be right if you compare it with a lv 40 DAOC character trying to kill a highend boss encounter..


so please stop this bullshit argumentation.. there isnt and there never was a level cap increase in DAOC.. even if you stand on your head it isnt getting more truthful..

Leveling is my favorite part of gaming.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

nd what i talked about was that DAOC never increased the Character Level cap... and dont be fool to try to argument it in the way there was something like that.. as you already said.. there is a difference in between a character level and item level.. which in heavensward both was increased (character level + item levels) and item levels are constantly increased even in between the content patches. so there is much a difference ... your example would be right if you compare it with a lv 40 DAOC character trying to kill a highend boss encounter..


so please stop this bullshit argumentation.. there isnt and there never was a level cap increase in DAOC.. even if you stand on your head it isnt getting more truthful..

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Do you even understand the purpose aof leveling? You seem to think that simply because you stopped killing mobs once you hit 50, there was no level cap increase. Right off the bat, realm ranks are levels. The higher you rank, the higher your stats get and you get additional skills. Last I checked, Purge wasn't a base line ability. The higher your level, the access to more skills you get. That's the very definition of master levels and champion levels. They even have the word level right in them. DAoC most certainly increased the level cap throughout the game's lifecycle.

I've already leveled two jobs to 60 and I have another at 51, 52, and 56 and my MCH is at 41.

But I really hate leveling up. You totally figured me out.

Crafting wouldn't work in this game if there was no increased level cap. You'd hit 50 then be able to just buy gear that would carry you all through 2.1-3.0.

No one quits an RPG because they have to level, if they do they're an idiot and this game is better off without them.

I'll say right now that this expansion would not have been anywhere near as interesting with the new leveling experience and skills.

Also GW2 is bad and you should feel bad.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

I agree, plenty of ways to add new skills and gear to game, without making everything before it obsolete and basically hitting reset on the entire game.

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Reset on 2 yr old content is a bad thing?

'Increasement' made me chuckle

As other said, thanks for thinking that your opinion is the opinion of whole community.
Untill now I thought that I loved leveling from 50 to 60 but now, as you told me, I was probably wrong.

I want my Level 99!

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

As other said, thanks for thinking that your opinion is the opinion of whole community.
Untill now I thought that I loved leveling from 50 to 60 but now, as you told me, I was probably wrong.

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Firstly i said "personally" secondly: i wonder how the press says it differently. but well, fanboys.

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with the new leveling experience

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New leveling experience? its designed so dull like in ARR... even the press says so:


- boring, monotonous sidequests
- fetch and carry tasks


"Dont expect a genre revolution, on the contrary the quest design in Final Fantasy 14: Heavensward is very outmoded just like in ARR." - Gamestar

"Unspectecular repeating Quest Design. Lacks voiceover in main campaign." - 4Players




https://translate.google.de/translat...tml&edit-text=

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Also GW2 is bad and you should feel bad.

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aha O_o funny.

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That's the very definition of master levels and champion levels.

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i see what you are doing there with your argumentation.. RR and lv 50 was never increased... so once you hit lv 50 you didnt have to kill 1000.000 mobs again to just increase your level and stats.. right RR was an other kind of progression though they never really increased it.. if it would be so, we would have had RR50 instead of Realm Rank 13.. but thats an other story.


Master Levels and champion levels (especially the last) never have been really essential. Master levels havent been obtained by doing dull side quests (get me 10 red jewels, kill 10 goblins etc.) it was obtained through open world raids solving tasks. and thats what i meant.. do it differently and entertaining..
i would prefer challenging champion levels over copy&paste solo grind quests. i dont see an accomplishment in killing 2 random mobs who are no actual competition at all.


as the press criticizes the quest design is very outdated and cant compete with modern MMorpgs these days.. no wonder since FF14 copied mostly everything from WoW.

Why not do things this way. Make players start over at level 1. In 4.0 they could release official Advanced Jobs that would be start at level one on another continent (Al Amigho? Sharlaya?) It could be a way for them to give the game another reset of sorts. Something fresh for the players who are all caught up.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Firstly i said "personally" secondly: i wonder how the press says it differently. but well, fanboys.

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"Nowdays everyone enjoys " -You.

Saying personally is same as saying "No offense". You cannot tell someone go f*ck yourself and then say no offense and expect that it negates the meaning of previously said stuff. :)

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

"Nowdays everyone enjoys " -You.

Saying personally is same as saying "No offense". You cannot tell someone go f*ck yourself and then say no offense and expect that it negates the meaning of previously said stuff. :)

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Besides that.. you say that these quotes are no true facts at all?:


- boring, monotonous sidequests
- fetch and carry tasks


"Dont expect a genre revolution, on the contrary the quest design in Final Fantasy 14: Heavensward is very outmoded just like in ARR." - Gamestar

"Unspectecular repeating Quest Design. Lacks voiceover in main campaign." - 4Players




For me its no accomplishment to get a NPC his/her spoon because he/she lost it somewhere.."wow i am THE hero, why do i have to get her spoon??" nor is it an "accomplishment".. when i run to 3 different purple spots on the map where i AGAIN after hundreds of times in this game.. 2-3 random TRASH mobs appear that i have to kill.. is it really your opinion that stuff like this isnt first of all outdated and secondly fun??

these are filler quests per definition.. copy&paste.. and they are there for timesink and nothing more.

You don't have to do the sidequests.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You don't have to do the sidequests.

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FATE's arent any better.. uninspired dull public quests... in Warhammer online or GW2 at least some of them have at least voiceover to it or special things like transformation into something .. for example a public quest where you transform into a pig and have to shovel for truffles or what the heck else..

FATE in FF14 -> zerg smashes onto one "boss" mob till it dies.

The only way for a company to give up designs that prolong the play time, is if their profits do not depend on your play time.

If you feel so many things are a waste of your time in MMORPGs, that's because they are. I would suggest that you pick up one of the well-liked single-player RPGs around and try it out. Sometimes we just delve too deep into something to see more and more of it as flaws. Taking some time away usually fixes that.