Dear Yoship, HUGE thank you from a SMN

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's still taking away what the player can do for themselves (the player can run around like a headless chicken, spamming this ability and that for their pet to do). Able to dodge AoE's without spells getting interrupted and not worry about their pets taking a lot of damage due to them not being targets to mechanics, as well as reduced magic damage and immunity to persistent ground AoE's.

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So instead they take the name of the Summoner job and create something entirely different. "Why?" is the only question that comes to my mind. They could have made Summoner function the way it had in previous iterations and created a dot job that is called something else. Having iconic jobs in the game is cool, but it is meaningless if they don't feel like the iconic jobs.

Now I haven't had the opportunity to play Summoner in 3.0 and it sounds like it is a lot of fun. I actually enjoyed it in 2.0 even though I considered it an abomination to the title. But no matter how fun it was, that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's still taking away what the player can do for themselves (the player can run around like a headless chicken, spamming this ability and that for their pet to do). Able to dodge AoE's without spells getting interrupted and not worry about their pets taking a lot of damage due to them not being targets to mechanics, as well as reduced magic damage and immunity to persistent ground AoE's.

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The spells have cast times and use the players current target? When the player dies the summon dies with it so there's no need for the pet to be targeted by mechanics. I mean, it's a fairly simple concept to grasp. If the devs were to try and replicate FFXI Summoners in FXIV that's how it would work.

But why would the player need to cast a spell that their Summon is going to use? Wouldn't that remove the entire point of having a summon?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

But why would the player need to cast a spell that their Summon is going to use? Wouldn't that remove the entire point of having a summon?

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Think of it as 'Commanding' them, like enkindle but in various flavours.

I don't speak for everybody but most players that want a more pet focused summoner do so for the aesthetics, you can shift most the damage to the pet as long as the player has to initiate it in some form without breaking balance.

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Originally Posted by Valsh

The spells have cast times and use the players current target? When the player dies the summon dies with it so there's no need for the pet to be targeted by mechanics. I mean, it's a fairly simple concept to grasp. If the devs were to try and replicate FFXI Summoners in FXIV that's how it would work.

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I played summoner in FFXI, and I like FF14 summoner way better. The FFXI version is much more passive, as player you are out of range, away from AOE and do a lot of kiting. Your offensive ability also being timed 20-30 seconds activation. It's a more passive style of playing. You rotate your avatar for buffs, and attack power, and they will do most of the heavy lifting of your damage since you do not have ANY spells - only from your subjob and underpowered.

Summoner in FF14 is far far more active, your pet role is smaller, and only as a help to boost your DPS, while you as the player has to make a lot of active decision. The new changes to summoner is even better, now you have to play strategically and time your charges to be able to enter the trance session. It is far far more interesting than FFXI summoner.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

We don't really care. Function > aesthetics.

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Who's 'we'? A lot of Summoners were disappointed in changes because...Hi, it's a PET JOB.
Meh, we've been around and again with the Summoner status.
So far, it doesn't feel like what a SUMMONER is in the FF series.
Egi's are for show now. Remove Egi's and let us, the summoner, use special attacks from stances of Shiva/Ifrit/Titan and so on.
Put in Beast Tamer or whatever you call it and that can be a REAL pet job.
I'm going to try SMN again since it seems like it's in a better place.

People are being pretty insensitive to other SMN's feel though.
If it's a pet job, you expect more interactions with the pets.
Big 'DUH' right there lol. I do say on the other side of the coin; try and be happy with what we got as of now and hope for a rework with pets later.
SMN was in a horrible spot in 2.0.

the HWs abilities actually made me quit my summoner. the whole ruin 3 and painsurge mechanics scream annoying

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

I still think they need to go back to the drawing board.

It's a powerful job now, but it's not even remotely a "summoner."

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Because what people want out of "summoner" would never work in an mmo because they want to be objectively overpowered. XIV summoner is in a far better state and has been for the majority of its life than XI's summoner was in for years.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Who's 'we'? A lot of Summoners were disappointed in changes because...Hi, it's a PET JOB.
Meh, we've been around and again with the Summoner status.
So far, it doesn't feel like what a SUMMONER is in the FF series.
Egi's are for show now. Remove Egi's and let us, the summoner, use special attacks from stances of Shiva/Ifrit/Titan and so on.
Put in Beast Tamer or whatever you call it and that can be a REAL pet job.
I'm going to try SMN again since it seems like it's in a better place.

People are being pretty insensitive to other SMN's feel though.
If it's a pet job, you expect more interactions with the pets.
Big 'DUH' right there lol. I do say on the other side of the coin; try and be happy with what we got as of now and hope for a rework with pets later.
SMN was in a horrible spot in 2.0.

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This incoherent whining made my eyes bleed - remove the pets from the "PET JERB!" to make it more reliant on pets?

I'm glad they finally made Summoners a real DOT DPS, it took a yr to fix them but thank you yoshi and devs for fixing them. Their new abilities is amazing and at times can par with BLM. The new abilities made them more versatile and not be restricted by positional or stationary via use of Tri-disaster, which hinders their damage output unlike the BLM enochain which is quite troublesome as of now. I find myself often switching pets from ruda to ifrit. Ruda for normal mobs and ifrit for single target coz the shield dmg return is nice now compare to 1.0-2.0 ver. It seems now SMN feels more of AOE damager as a crowd controller and BLM single target damager which IMO should be. But its early to judge until Alex comes out for real testing.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

This incoherent whining made my eyes bleed - remove the pets from the "PET JERB!" to make it more reliant on pets?

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Not a whine. A mere suggestion because as it stands the pets are stupid. I'll try to explain easier.
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You either:
A. Make them interact with pets more. Which doesn't seem likely from the course of things.
B. Make them an Envoker type of deal and remove the pets. - Seems more of their course, but without pet removal.
They are just there for show it seems. They seem to make it where it's more of the Summoner....being the summon anyways.
We have no idea how Summoner's Pets will play later on, it'll be nice to have both. It just feels tagged on now.
Very hard to talk about this subject because time and time again peoples opinions get pissed on.
Kinda annoying.

Just give us a Beast Tamer and don't screw it up like they did Summoner. [When I say that, I mean as a Pet job.]

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Originally Posted by ckc22

Or you get over it and realize that summoner is just fine as is. Again, what people want out of summoner can't exist in an mmo environment.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

It's never going to change to your liking, find some way to deal with it or be mad forever I guess.

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Or you can not be an arsehat and let people have suggestions. Crazy thought, I know right?
I wasn't mad at all when typing this. I even said I'd try it again since it seems more fun.
I already forsaw a lot of jerkish replies anyway so I'm done giving my two cents. Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Seaverin

It seems now SMN feels more of AOE damager as a crowd controller and BLM single target damager which IMO should be. But its early to judge until Alex comes out for real testing.

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It definitely does feel like that now with Painflare and Ahk Morn. I don't mind this one bit lol

I loved my SMN in 2.0 and my main complaints for the class has been fixed with 3.0. Iffy's shield has nice utility(even in certain boss fights when timed nicely) and he hits a lot more targets with his AoE size increase. I find myself honestly going back and forth between the 2 often depending on how long a trash mob will last or how the mechanics of a boss fight will work instead of before where it was mainly me using Garuda on trash mobs and Ifrit on bosses(with exceptions). Just having another viable option for Aetherflow is nice, especially one thats AoE. It would suck only having the option of ruin spam or bane an already almost dead set of mobs. And TriDisaster. Not even just MP issues but just being able to spread dots faster (and safer *glares at BisEX and LEviEX* :3) is a plus.

I am still hoping some egi glamour news comes soon. I don't care for entirely new pets as Summon I/II/III fit the bill that's needed and there's more opportunity in giving those 3 new abilities but I cant deny wanting to use Almighty Lord Nugget in every situation I can. If I cant use a Summon III Titan Egi, then I'll settle for Shiva lol

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Not a whine. A mere suggestion because as it stands the pets are stupid. I'll try to explain easier.
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You either:
A. Make them interact with pets more. Which doesn't seem likely from the course of things.
B. Make them an Envoker type of deal and remove the pets. - Seems more of their course, but without pet removal.
They are just there for show it seems. They seem to make it where it's more of the Summoner....being the summon anyways.
We have no idea how Summoner's Pets will play later on, it'll be nice to have both. It just feels tagged on now.
Very hard to talk about this subject because time and time again peoples opinions get pissed on.
Kinda annoying.

Just give us a Beast Tamer and don't screw it up like they did Summoner. [When I say that, I mean as a Pet job.]

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Or you get over it and realize that summoner is just fine as is. Again, what people want out of summoner can't exist in an mmo environment.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

People can complain about lack of pets all they want, 3 pets or 30 there still will only be 1 that is THE pet to use and the others will go collect dust in the eather.

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Except this isn't true at all and any SMN who actually believes this doesn't know how to play their job properly.

Ifrit is better in single-target fights; Garuda is better in multi-target fights. I'm starting to see SMNs regularly switching pets in dungeons now which is great. That is exactly how a pet job should work: situationally useful pets that you switch between on a per-fight basis. SE seems to realise this now which is also likely why Ifrit got stealth buffed in the expansion as well. More pets can definitely work as long as those pets fill a niche that the others don't already cover. A pet with an AOE auto-attack akin to the MCH turret would be useful, as would a pet dedicated to crowd control. They wouldn't see constant use but they would have situational uses which is exactly how a pet job is meant to play.

I agree with the OP though, the SMN changes have really made the job a lot more fun and versatile. The only problem now is the BLMs whining because they're no longer better than us at everything.

The rotation has a feeling of completeness now that it didn't have before.

Before, it was: Aetherflow->Apply dots->Fester on CD/Ruin Spam/Refresh DoTs/wait for aetherflow to pop back up.

Now we have something fun to do while we wait for Aetherflow to be ready, and another method of dot refreshing so that its less annoying.

Not to mention our increased AoE burst capabilities. (Painflare has also saved my butt on fights where things need to die quickly, like Ravana's butterflies)

I still have my wishes for the class (An example: an alternate stance that allows for more burst based direct dps rather than sustained dot dps, to help with shorter fights, or periods that things need to die quickly. Shadow Priests in WoW have something like this). But i'm much happier than i was with the job, and who knows, maybe in time i'll get my wish.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Who's 'we'? A lot of Summoners were disappointed in changes because...Hi, it's a PET JOB.
Meh, we've been around and again with the Summoner status.
So far, it doesn't feel like what a SUMMONER is in the FF series.
Egi's are for show now. Remove Egi's and let us, the summoner, use special attacks from stances of Shiva/Ifrit/Titan and so on.
Put in Beast Tamer or whatever you call it and that can be a REAL pet job.
I'm going to try SMN again since it seems like it's in a better place.

People are being pretty insensitive to other SMN's feel though.
If it's a pet job, you expect more interactions with the pets.
Big 'DUH' right there lol. I do say on the other side of the coin; try and be happy with what we got as of now and hope for a rework with pets later.
SMN was in a horrible spot in 2.0.

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It's never going to change to your liking, find some way to deal with it or be mad forever I guess.

I had planned for 3.0 to swap my main from SMN to Astrologian, but considering how AST is pretty undertuned right now I'm leveling my SMN now "just in case". I'm only level 55 now, so no access to the SUPER cool abilities yet, but even just the slight changes have made me very happy. Did a Sohm Al yesterday with a tank who, after the first pull, declared: "Thank god, I finally got some GOOD DPS in the DF" and proceeded to mass pull the entire rest of the dungeon without a single hiccup (the other DPS was also a SMN, and neck and neck with me on numbers).

Can't wait to get home and grind out some more levels, so I can finally experience Dreadwyrm Trance.

Yeah Yoshi, thanks so much for ignoring every single it of feedback that has been posted on these forums about the summoner job.

Oh and thanks for being lazy and screwing us out of our namesake by not giving us any more egis.

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Originally Posted by Havenae

Yeah Yoshi, thanks so much for ignoring every single it of feedback that has been posted on these forums about the summoner job.

Oh and thanks for being lazy and screwing us out of our namesake by not giving us any more egis.

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The feedback has been answered . You can't expect to have it all. The SMN job has been immensely improved and I'm 100% happy with it. No interested in New egis right now. Maybe in the future.

Yes it is vastly improved summoner. Now I'll only ever bring it out for speed running dungeons for loot. So thank you se for the new farming tool :D

Though yeah I could never main that thing on the pure principle. That is as quite a few other people have said here. A summoner in name alone :0 and nothing more then that.

I am pretty sure that if they put there collective heads together they could translate the single player summoner to a proper mmo environment the likes that would put 11 to shame......oh wait no they can copy the warlock class from world of warcraft yeah!

But hey new farming tool woot ^_^

The career SMNs have always played the job for what it is, not griped about what it isn't. The posts in here decrying the style and basic gameplay of the job are not the players that this thread intended to attract, I guarantee it. This thread seems to be intended for career SMNs to express their gratitude over the job's improved DPS numbers and more seamless form of play (buh-bye super dull Ruin spam between DoT refreshes and lack of burst contribution once your Aetherflow stacks were spent), not to imply that the job is somehow different at it's fundament.

Shhhhh guys it may get Nerf both are two new AOE could be a holy/flare Nerf or even a lower POT ; ;.

I hope it stay again but knowing SE i see it happening.

I'm glad they went this direction with SMN rather than adding a bunch of useless egis.

In all seriousness though, they did do a good job with the classes dps and over usefulness in this expansion. I really hope that they take the egi glamour system and run with it, so we can have impressive looking summons to go with impressive looking actions like deathflare and such. Also hopefully we don't have to wait all the way to patch 3.4 to see some inklings of that system. So I am putting all my hopes on that system currently at the moment. Suprana or Chirada egi glamour hype?

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Originally Posted by Havenae

Yeah Yoshi, thanks so much for ignoring every single it of feedback that has been posted on these forums about the summoner job.

Oh and thanks for being lazy and screwing us out of our namesake by not giving us any more egis.

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People who are currently unhappy with SMN: They ignored everyone!!! Everybody wanted a thousand more egis and no actual adjustments to the quality of gameplay! I won't be happy until the SMN in this game is like FFXI where i could just stand there and watch as my pet does everything.

People who are currently happy with SMN: *confetti*

Everyone keeps bringing up that our SMN does not feel like a "traditional" SMN. Need I remind everyone that "traditional" SMNs were just BLM/WHMs with a some really flashy attack sometimes.

The new spells really fixed a lot with the class, but regardless of what anyone here thinks, egi's are a core component of this class. They are literally the mark of the summoner. As they stand now, they might as well be a two year old vanity, and desperately need work. The new spells are fun but summoner is not even close to being fixed yet, sorry guys. All of the arguing in here is silly, people act like just because we have new spells that pets can keep being screwed up. Egi's are the worst pets ever and honestly might as well not even be there right now, and it's too late to remove them. They have to do something with them, it would be extremely lazy not to, considering a lot of people pay money every month to main this class in their game. This is why a lot of people are still unhappy, the egi system is majorly flawed.

I levelled my SCH first and subsequently, my SMN and I think the changes to SMN are fantastic, I was never a big SMN player back before Heavensward but I can't get enough of playing it now, with improved Bane and Painflare/Deathflare, our AoE is really potent and fun to use, now that we have Dreadwyrm Trance, we don't have to mindlessly mash Ruin/Ruin II between DoT timers, now I get to plan out my attack and finally learning a class I had no interest in before.

I am quite sketchy at it at the moment, but I am getting good practice in to be better.

I like the new summoner changes where they can deal quite a bit of damage...but sadly I don't see this as a summoner any more. Let's all be honest currently the Egi hardly does anything. In this current situation it feels like SE didn't know how to make a real pet class called summoner and changed it. Let's be honest the people who are happy are happy because now they are doing big deeps. In my opinion they haven't "fixed" summoner, pets are still useless and don't do anything might as well rename the class as Invoker then take summoner back to the drawing board. The pet glamour system won't fix summoner because all it will be is a idol standing there swinging at the target which as the same effects as another pet. Currently, in my opinion the class which is least like how they generally portrayed in Final Fantasy is Summoner.

When I look at the other classes I can still see the iconic feel to them but here? Nope summoner isn't what I expected from a summoner in the final fantasy series and don't try give me "oh, but lore in this game!" Yes I understand lore but at least the other classes have their lore but still keep the iconic feel of a final fantasy job.

My question about the lore is. Here is near a thousand year old vengeful primal elder dragon that literally tried to burn and raze us to the ground out of pure rage and spite. So we are taken that aether and coursing it through our body..... I mean does that really sound safe at all or make any sense? I mean I could understand trance with the other primals....but bahamut really? So were just gonna forget that he practically enthralled Louisuix and Darnus?

And again were channeling this rage filled vengeful aether through our bodies.... >.> The whole time I am just starting at Y'mhitra and going....did you check if this has any side effects or long lasting consequences?

SMN is way too strong now. They deal too much damage for how much mobility and utility they have. Since they have probably the most valuable utility in the game (a battle res), they should definitely be weaker than other classes in exchange.

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Originally Posted by Core1019

SMN is way too strong now. They deal too much damage for how much mobility and utility they have. Since they have probably the most valuable utility in the game (a battle res), they should definitely be weaker than other classes in exchange.

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This there is no need to nerf the Summoner since they were just brought on par with Black Mage and Black Mage has 10% higher single target potency than Black Mage. Summoners battle res isn't that great of a utility becuase by the time its used in raid senerios its a wipe.

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Originally Posted by Azuta

My question about the lore is. Here is near a thousand year old vengeful primal elder dragon that literally tried to burn and raze us to the ground out of pure rage and spite. So we are taken that aether and coursing it through our body..... I mean does that really sound safe at all or make any sense? I mean I could understand trance with the other primals....but bahamut really? So were just gonna forget that he practically enthralled Louisuix and Darnus?

And again were channeling this rage filled vengeful aether through our bodies.... >.> The whole time I am just starting at Y'mhitra and going....did you check if this has any side effects or long lasting consequences?

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We have the power of the echo which mean no primal even a elder can control us like they do normal NPC. We only using a very small % of bahamut aether even if we use more with the power of echo/light we can't be over taken by any primal. I believe even a dragon can't control us if we use there eye.

Remember ifrit try to control us with his flame by he ended up failing saying you are Temper by other primal. So we already pretty much Temper but we are free to do so w/e we want at least it seem like that.