So, the Fractal Continuum (spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Doesn't seem to be particularly elder here.

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Agreed. They mention he's summoned, and this is the first time anyone's seen him. He was summoned into a giant Sharlayan defense robot, which couldn't have been older than an era by merit of the age of Sharlayan civilization. All in all, Alexander is just a primal summoned into an existing mechanical structure.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Agreed. They mention he's summoned, and this is the first time anyone's seen him. He was summoned into a giant Sharlayan defense robot, which couldn't have been older than an era by merit of the age of Sharlayan civilization. All in all, Alexander is just a primal summoned into an existing mechanical structure.

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Actually the Mecha IS the primal Alexander. The ruins were made of stone. I did several fly bys over that lake trying to get a close look at the area both before and after Alexander appeared. What happened to the stone ruins, I have no idea. I guess they were either crushed or transmutated.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Actually the Mecha IS the primal Alexander. The ruins were made of stone. I did several fly bys over that lake trying to get a close look at the area both before and after Alexander appeared. What happened to the stone ruins, I have no idea. I guess they were either crushed or transmutated.

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They mention he was summoned into a "Sharlayan defense construct," so that may or may not be what makes Alexander look metallic, but it certainly encompasses much of the mechanical features found within.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

They mention he was summoned into a "Sharlayan defense construct," so that may or may not be what makes Alexander look metallic, but it certainly encompasses much of the mechanical features found within.

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Hmm, I could tell in my fly bys that it was the very top of a building. So the marble roof I saw could have been a tower on a submerged fortress.

Sooo back to the fractal continuum...

The guide panel about naga mentions that void research was just beginning to take form. Do we know what time period of the empire the facility is from? Seeing as that it's a repurposed warship turned into a museum. Also seeing as that clone Xande figured out how to make a deal with a powerful voidsent in the empire's twilight.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Agreed. They mention he's summoned, and this is the first time anyone's seen him. He was summoned into a giant Sharlayan defense robot, which couldn't have been older than an era by merit of the age of Sharlayan civilization. All in all, Alexander is just a primal summoned into an existing mechanical structure.

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It's actually a little more complicated than that. During the quest to first unlock the raid Cid realises that Alexander was actually summoned several years ago, which caused an earthquake (presumably the one that destroyed the bridges) and then that golden barrier appeared over where it was summoned before the primal disappeared again. This leads him to question whether it is really the Illuminati that are behind this. He's been summoned multiple times and something seems to be inhibiting his summoning.

I think it's possible that Alexander may actually be an Eikon that the Illuminati merely stumbled across and woke up. The barrier seems like a seal of some kind to contain the creature, and indeed Alexander is having trouble moving at the moment by the looks of it. Given that he has been compared to a mammet I wouldn't be surprised if the construct is not the primal/eikon at all, but rather he has a crystal core somewhere which is the actual creature controlling the machine.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/246971-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-XXIII-Q-A-Update-Thread?p=3128694&viewfull=1#post3128694

Q30. Is the Iksalion that appears in the Fractal Continuum related to the Ixal? If so, is the Ayatlan they are searching for during the beast tribe quest actually the floating continent Azys Lla?

A30. Azys Lla, Azyslan, Ayatlan... Talking about it too much would take the fun away from it, so I think I’ll leave it at that. By the way, if you go and talk to a certain NPC in the Ixal beast tribe quest area after clearing this, their dialogue will change. There are a lot of other examples of this, so be sure to check out various NPCs.

Well, I found which certain Ixali NPC to talk to for that dialogue change.

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Razel Huizan the Stationary: Squawk! Reda! Have questions for Razel, do you? Hmmm?
Razel Huizan the Stationary: Squawk! Well! Very well, we fare!
Razel Huizan the Stationary: Great success, first flight of Dezul Qualan was! Very high, it flew! Soared like bird! But satisfied, we are not...
Razel Huizan the Stationary: Not until we land upon shores of Ayatlan! Dream yet of that day, we do!
Razel Huizan the Stationary: Hmmm? Making solemn face, featherless one is. Strikes awe into heart, name of Ayatlan does? Yes? Then take you there, perhaps we will!
Razel Huizan the Stationary: But now work, we must. Today. Tomorrow. Work until we can climb high above clouds, we will! Squawk!

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Even the Warrior of Light has made the connection.

Yoshi said some of the Ehcatl NPC had their dialog changed if you have cleared Fractal's quest. I went there and cheked all NPC. Tataramu text is funny, but I don't remember a thing about the dialogs the NPC had previously, is there a wat we can compare it?

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Originally Posted by Reinhart

Even the Warrior of Light has made the connection.

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Yeah, its fun to read their dialogs and connect the dots if you think about Azys Lya.

As far as I could tell, that NPC was the only one that referenced anything remotely close to the Fractal Continuum.

could it be that we need to complete all beast tribe quests including the final special ones? to have the new dialogs we seek?

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

Sooo back to the fractal continuum...

The guide panel about naga mentions that void research was just beginning to take form. Do we know what time period of the empire the facility is from? Seeing as that it's a repurposed warship turned into a museum. Also seeing as that clone Xande figured out how to make a deal with a powerful voidsent in the empire's twilight.

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To some degree, I'm wondering if the au ra were a result of those voidsent splicing experiments mentioned. The devs did say their influence is demonic rather than draconic...

everything is allag created lol >_<. Just stop jajajajaj

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

The guide panel about naga mentions that void research was just beginning to take form. Do we know what time period of the empire the facility is from?

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Supposedly, all the horrible bad evil Allagan tech causing problems in the present is from the second reign of Xande, because before then the Allagans lived in a perfect utopia and never did anything wrong to anyone. Azys Lla doesn't really feel like it was built overnight, though, and the panels in the Continuum suggest to me that the technology on display has been a key contributor to Allagan "prosperity" for far longer than that. My own guess is that everything on display there was in use well before Xande's resurrection, though the museum itself is only as old as the conquest of Meracydia.

This is a setting where we can't even take the word of gods at face value, so I'm inclined to believe that one guy's inherited memories came with more than a little bit of rose-tinting. We may never know for sure, because mysteries are so much more interesting than answers.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

everything is allag created lol >_<. Just stop jajajajaj

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It's more likely than you think:

http://mo.oldserver.org/uploads/allagan_potatoes.png

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Originally Posted by MarotSatil

It's more likely than you think

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Tbh, considering the diversity among the different sentient "races" and that despite that a number of them can still crossbreed I'm almost convinced that the only races that weren't created by the Allagan's is their own race and Midgardstomr and his children.

. . . and we know they messed with their own genetics as well so who knows what they originally started out as.

We can only confirm elezen and hyurs. Those where the races that fromed the allags. But the orther ones we dont know XD
Lol seriously? has everything needs to be allag origin?

PD: its confirmed, lalafells come from a potato :x

Guys another thing, can we really confirm that all allag's bad things where during Xande's second reing? Can we confirm that?
Yes I agree on Meracydia, Dalamud, Azys la, ect
But The empire covered almost the hold world. Maybe the empire was growing between Xande's times? On those times were tos of wars/conquests.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Guys another thing, can we really confirm that all allag's bad things where during Xande's second reing? Can we confirm that?

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No.

/tencharacters

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Originally Posted by Toranja

No.

/tencharacters

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It hard to believe that they were a perfect civilisation and then everything went wrong at the part that they started to do terrible things. Abusing life by creating monstrousities, it something that doesnt change over night.

It seems like the 1st Xande conquered alot of the world and with his death: stagnation to the Empire which and losing of territories. Then Amon created Xande Clone and with him the Allagans were able to regain lost territory AND maybe the rest of the world at the time.

Since Xande 2 was a clone, they clearly had to have been experimenting prior to that. But it seems as if CT then Dalamud was created during Xande Clone's reign.

Summoners were also power hungry and they were the Elite Soldiers at the time. I can see Allag to be similar to Xenogear's Solaris: an evil technologically advanced empire where despite being militarily aggressive, the 1st class citizens remain ignorant of all the atrocities that their gov't has done. At least up until the WoL at the time told them about it.

....but where was the Triad in all of this? They've had them since the the founding of the Empire,yet they were never truly used and I get the feeling that the Flagship (and Azys Lla) was a later Allagan creation

Im ignorant to this who was the WoL of that era? Dont tell it was the final boss of CT aka LoA

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Im ignorant to this who was the WoL of that era? Dont tell it was the final boss of CT aka LoA

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I probably need to read up on the NOAH files, but that giant Boss we fight in LotA was Phlegmeton who was a former Allagan War Hero who lead a rebellion against the Allagan Empire/ Clone Xande. I don't think Phlegmethon was a WoL, but might be possible he helped them.

He lost and as punishment he got himself converted into that + mind-controlled and must now be forced to defend the same person he rebelled against.

Off subject, but it seems obvious that the Allagan had the tech to transform themselves into giant glowing things, but that seems to be under Xande Clone's reign

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

We can only confirm elezen and hyurs. Those where the races that fromed the allags.

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Unless I'm missing something (and please point me in the direction of it if I am) we don't know for sure that the elezen were part of the dominate/ruling group of Allag. If I recall, this idea comes from the fact that Nael used Elezen animations in 1.0 and claimed that he was descended from them. Livia used Elezen animations as well, and we now know that she was definitely Garlean. The clones in the Crystal Tower storyline at least looked Hyur.

The Keepers of the Moon have stories of some family lines dating back to the First Astral Era, but the Ixal and the Moogles have stories as well. Those myths we now know did have some basis in fact--but only a basis. "Warring tribes" is pretty vague after all.

Considering that so many of the races are "humans w/ extras" I'm inclined at the moment to think that the Allagans were Hyur and that at least the other playable races and the Garleans were created from them. Not to mention, some of the beast races were probably flat out created by them.

Ugh now this has got me wondering about the Pajal too. Sure the elementals are connected to them now but we have a Pajal language in game that seems to predate Gridania. Were the Pajal once a race like the six we have now and ended up dying out? Are the elementals in fact some how "activating" dormant Pajal genes that have survived in human lines like the Senna? Were they too created by the Allagans?

. . .gah where is that mene picture? "ALLAGANS" indeed.

Amon was not al elezen? looks his ears and this physical from, despite he was mutated to be even taller ><

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Im ignorant to this who was the WoL of that era? Dont tell it was the final boss of CT aka LoA

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Phlegethon was one of them, presumably. My guess from the Salina namedrop is that their leader was named either Desch or Owen. My crazier theory is that the party also consisted of us, sent back to the past, as well as G'raha Tia himself. G'raha may even be his own ancestor, who remained behind in the past after we saved Salina from the Calamity. This is all just me trying to rationalize what he could have seen in Salina's memories that convinced him that he had to stay behind in the Tower, since the answer he gave us doesn't really jive with the usual "you decide who you are for yourself" message at the core of basically every FF ever. Also, like, FF9 parallels, anyone? The answer you've searched for your entire life doesn't define who you really are.

My other crack theory is that the Allagans' WoL failed outright, and Salina herself was the last survivor of the conservative camp, who believed that the Allagans' lifestyle was perfect for everyone until Xande came along. To her, seeing that prior lifestyle given as a gift to the future would seem like the "correct" atonement for the evils she attributed entirely to Xande. This latter theory is meant to reconcile the discrepancies between G'raha's parting speech and Doga and Unei's earlier history lecture.

But either way, we have no idea if that period of history will ever be revisited at this time.

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Originally Posted by Naria

. . .gah where is that mene picture? "ALLAGANS" indeed.

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Here you go!

http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/700634.jpg

Livia was a garlean, his sister was a gearlean, confirmed. Nael said that he had allagan ancestors, NOT elezen acestors. Padjas were created by the elementals after the pact of the ppl living on the forest and the elementals.

While I don't think that any of the spoken/"human" races were created by the Allagans, that doesn't mean they weren't experimented on and the result of that experimentation was able to make a sub clan of one of the main races

Given the recent revelations, I believe that pure-blooded Garleans were the result of Allagan experimentation. Just like the Ixalion may have devolved into Ixals, proto-Garleans may have been different? Maybe their 3rd eye served a function? Though I dont know why not being able to use Magic can be an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Padjas were created by the elementals after the pact of the ppl living on the forest and the elementals.

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. . . or so the Gridanians believe. So much knowledge is lost in the Umbral eras they could have originated as an Allagan experiment w/ elementals (we know they were experimenting with voidsent) but have been a flawed creation that ended up dying off, except for dormant genes in some hyur bloodlines (crossbreeding). Perhaps the elementals just capitalized on this, reactivating those genes and "creating" the modern Pajal to be intermediaries. Maybe they freeze them as children because this hypothetical genetic flaw does not manifest until adulthood. Oddly enough, we already have an example of elementals acting as keepers or collectors of lost knowledge/tech with White Magic and Ampador.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Amon was not al elezen? looks his ears and this physical from, despite he was mutated to be even taller ><

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I'll give you that he looks to be Elezen, but he was a scientist not necessary born nobility/ruling class. That does not mean that the elezen were not "created" by the the Allagans. The Garleans, who try model themselves after the Allagans have a way to assimilate members of "lesser" races into higher classes, who is to say that the Allagans didn't also?

. . . Which is kinda the problem isn't it? We know so little about the planet's history and we have a great deal of unreliable exposition in the game. The Lamia are a great example of this. Any bit that seems to be reliable can lead to wild speculations and theories.

. . . at least for me.:o

At least we know they did not create the Ascians.

/darksteelfoilhat off

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Originally Posted by Naria

coments

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As the lore says the elezen are suppose to be here even before the first umbral era, that pre dates the allags.
Im not saing that the allagans have the same cultural structures and the garleans, but lets think. On the garleans is tipicaly the native pure blood garleans ( light hair and the third eye ).On the allags tehy could have the same structure most sure since they were a big empire with lots of coquer territories, but im guessing that the ppl who had the high race cultural priority would have being the native allag hyur-elezen. Makes sence since they both have high advantajes and toghether they could have being a terrible combination ( force, stargegy, knowlenge and widsom ). The thing with amon (now I also remember that he is a bard, beacuse of his "weird" personality of singing and being the center of atraction, probably insane too ) makes me believe he had a high rank on the empire, despite he looked like he was the right hand of the emperor.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

As the lore says the elezen are suppose to be here even before the first umbral era, that pre dates the allags.

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As far as I know the lore only states that the Elezen say they were here first and in the First Umbral era. No one from the lore team has made an out-of-world official comment. As I said, unreliable exposition. :)

Anyways, wild theories are fun. On the one hand I feel like the beast tribes have had a number done on them with so many of their cherished beliefs have been shown to be flawed, I kinda feel it is the other races' turn (and not just Ishgard, because that was heavily foreshadowed). On the other, I honestly do hope that it isn't this simple and almost everything is "ALLAGANS".

We will never have all the answers anyways, because what else would the lore forums have to talk about? :)

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by myahele

Maybe their 3rd eye served a function? Though I dont know why not being able to use Magic can be an advantage.

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Maybe not being able to use magic is a defect. Or maybe it is a consequence of whatever reason they have a third eye for.

I agree, it seems as if many beastribes are suspect of potentially being Allagan creation. Ixal are all but confirmed to be an artificially created.

Created or not, i do believe that the Vanu Vanu were tasked with protecting the key to Azys Lla: They knew about the key, convenient or not Bismark did swallow the island where the key was held, they seem to have been to have been pretty brutal/violent. Most important is that they pretty much had a self sustained habitat since they had those crystals (only located there?) that conveniently converts the moisture of the air and turns it into water.

There's also that UFO

Goin back the fractal continum. Recent theorys said that Garuda could have bing a living winged ixal that ( like Moises ) set his ppl free from their allag masters. But if we said that the primals are beings created with by the imagination of people, based on mytological figures there is something i quite not understand. Ethys Asher talked about very interesting things about the origins of the primals and on who they were representated. On Garuda i think not sure, yes she looks like a n Ixali, but with the lore of ffxiv, why she has humanoid aspects? Why the Ixaly would imagine something like an angel of somekind, if the original one could have being an Ixaly that free his people? and lol if the ixal were created by they allags for slave work, how could they have espace or rather gave them the motivation too? If bahamut couldnt scape, why would they?

My theory is that the real Garuda ( if that has her true name ) was not an ixal, but most probable an allag.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

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We pretty much find out that Primals are the imagination of people given physical form. They are not that person at all, but merely the idealization. The Ixal paint Garuda as a Warrior of justice savior of the Ixal, after thousands of years they more or less develop an idealized image of her: A Fallen and Beautiful Angel of Salvation.

The best example I can give is the original Knights of the 12 vs the Primal Knights of the 12. They were NEVER giants clad in heavy armor, they were just regular Elezen knights as seen in the cutscenes. Why do they look that way? Because the people ended making statues of the Knights and for 1000 years that's what the people idealized them to look. The same could be said about all the the other beast tribes, perhaps they had statues and/or paintings of their respective Primals and unconsciously used that as a basis.

For many Christians, there is not (or should not) a depiction of God, yet there's still an idealized image of how God might look.

From what I gather it seems like imagination (if you don't know how the person looked like irl) + prayer + ??? + aether = Primal

Someone said it and I just wanted to clear it up: "Eikons" is little more than the Garlean term for Primals.

Also, possible future idea, based on all the life experimentation the Allagans were into. . . ANIMA! Perhaps Anima could be a primal borne out of Allagan experiments to reanimate the dead or bind voidsent to the dead, and - while successful - drove the subjects mad, leaving them praying for death from the pain of the forced life support!

Oh man, that has my mind racing now. . .

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Someone said it and I just wanted to clear it up: "Eikons" is little more than the Garlean term for Primals.

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Sorry, its not. The Garleans discovered the term and use it as a catch-all for anything that is Primal-like; its basically them copying the Allagans in their pride, but having no idea what the term really means.

Go kill the EX Primals; it is explained that Eikons are NOT Primals, they are something far greater. Primals are but mortal desire made manifest through aether. We don't know exactly what an Eikon is yet, but we have reason to fear them.

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Originally Posted by myahele

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You missed my entire point. I knew everything you said already, but that doesnt change the thing that my theory could be right

There was a note on the recent Letter from the Producer that if you completed the Ixal beast tribe quests, one of the NPCs in the friendly Ixal hangout will have new dialogue. Anyone check yet?

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Originally Posted by LystAP

There was a note on the recent Letter from the Producer that if you completed the Ixal beast tribe quests, one of the NPCs in the friendly Ixal hangout will have new dialogue. Anyone check yet?

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The NPC you talk to that gives info on the Ixal senses you were at "Atalan" (sp.), but you have to beat the Fractual Continuum first I believe. When you enter from the low level side of North Shroud, he's to your right walking in, across from the merchant.