MSQ req for DK ?????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sirDarts

Especially with the non-existent Tank wait time for dungeons...

---

Yeah... not so sure the wait time for tanks will be "non-existent" come Friday.

The thing is from what he's saying he's gona toss pld for drk I'm sorry DK because he didn't like pld so he doesn't care for exp on it.

Hes level 25... doesnt have Halones Rage yet. Riot is the highest damage attack he has for a while. Well, until 26 lol. Not that its any less spammy.

Yes its dumb to have to finish MSQ to continue. Love how everyone just passively mentions it like its nothing despite the fact you have to grind ilvl to 90 before youre even allowed to finish that MSQ. Get off your high horse, its no ones business whether someone cares enough about 2.0+ story to want to do all those craptastic fedex quests post CM. Specially when its needed just to unlock a class thatll set you back 20 levels anyway. It is what it is though... just another cheap "F U, spend more time, pay us more" scheme from SE.

May as well stop complaining and get to it. Hopefully since ilvl 90 is the min for Ishgard, theyll have vendors selling basic ilvl 90 gear there or even at the main cities, so we can skip the grind and just skip through the story with any new characters.

He's level 25, tanking isn't necessary at his level. Stuff hits so weak in those dungeons and tank gear is pretty much the same as melee dps gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexia89

Yeah... not so sure the wait time for tanks will be "non-existent" come Friday.

---

Unless he is on a dead server, they will.
There is still a crapload of people under 50, there is still a crapload of people doing Roulettes, and Tanks will always be the most required job in DF.
Also keep in mind that a bunch of people will go do AST and MCH. Pretty sure there will be more of those than DRK.

I wonder when we'll see threads like "I bought Heavensward...now I just learned I need FFXIV too, WTF ?!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrsFluffyButt

1. No, no, no. Here's how your low level combo goes: Shield lob, flash x3, fast blade combo, flash some more, riot blade if 'needed,.

---

Before shield oath: Fast blade has an enmity of 150, savage blade has 600, Riot Blade 230.

So a fast blade + savage combo = 750 enmity. FB + RB = 380.

Flash, however, deals 500 enmity.

Fast blade + savage + fast blade +savage = 1500 enmity. Or 150 ePot per second

Flash + fast + riot blade + flash = 1380 enmity. Or 138 ePot per second (in both cases, assuming 0 skill speed, i.e. 2.5 second GCD).

Note that the potency per second for a lancer using the optimal (and super simple) rotation at those levels is 83. What this means is that both of these methods are comfortably above anything a DPS can put out, AS LONG AS YOU NEVER DEVIATE FROM A SINGLE TARGET. As soon as you do, a lancer will pull aggro from savage blade. Source: Literally no tank could hold aggro on a target I focused in the first three dungeons leveling lancer. Also the fact that as soon as you drop SB on another mob, your ePot per second tanks for that combo.

So while Fast + Savage is certainly more efficient at gaining/maintaining aggro on a single enemy, pre Halatali riot + flash spam actually works fine and means you never have to worry about an add wandering off to beat up the healer or that asshole level synked BLM spamming Fire 2. Honestly, in packs with 3 mobs, it works better because you're dropping straight 500 enmity on every enemy in the pack every third GCD instead of cycling through and picking one to drop it on, risking losing aggro on your primary to the Lancer who has correctly surmised that HIS low level rotation is heavy thrust into impulse drive until heavy thrust needs reapplication. (If memory serves, the easiest low level glad rotation is actually flash x 2 -> savage -> riot -> Flash -> savage -> riot -> Flash, etc. but I've not needed to worry about that in a long time)

It's not something I'd ever recommend because it's going to form terrible habits for later, BUT pretending that it can't hold aggro is pretty silly.

@OP: Despite all that, you should stop doing that, trust me. It doesn't work once you get past halatali and it's forming bad habits for you. Plus savage blade combo is straight superior on bosses.

Why is this thread in an existence? This question has been asked and answered on numerous sites and youtube.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayoZ

*snip*

---

Did you follow the story, or did you skip through it?
If you would have followed the story, you should understand why it's NOT POSSIBLE for anyone outside of Ishgard to teach the ways of a DRK/AST/MCH.
And to get to Ishgard, you HAVE TO finish MSQ.

It would be a GIANT plothole allowing either of these without MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

Could have gone Warrior if you didn't like Paladin tanking.

Just sayin'.

---

He said giant axes ruin his immersion. *shrug*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhynAzullo

He said giant axes ruin his immersion. *shrug*

---

But apparently, human-sized swords don't.
Selective suspension of disbelief as its finest ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sirDarts

Unless he is on a dead server, they will.
There is still a crapload of people under 50, there is still a crapload of people doing Roulettes, and Tanks will always be the most required job in DF.
Also keep in mind that a bunch of people will go do AST and MCH. Pretty sure there will be more of those than DRK.

---

A recent survey of what job people are maining showed a whopping 20% of people (who participated) plan to main DRK.
Yes, there will be a lot of AST too- but the number of MCH was actually pretty darn low compared to those two. I don't think tanks will get a 30 min queue or anything ridiculous like that, but I definitely wouldn't be expecting insta-pops come early access.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexia89

A recent survey of what job people are maining showed a whopping 20% of people (who participated) plan to main DRK.
Yes, there will be a lot of AST too- but the number of MCH was actually pretty darn low compared to those two. I don't think tanks will get a 30 min queue or anything ridiculous like that, but I definitely wouldn't be expecting insta-pops come early access.

---

The bracket part is very important.

I have played LoL for about 3 years, and participated on their forums for almost just as long - there was a bunch of surveys about what people main, the results were always pretty balanced, 5 basic roles, all right around 20% participation.
Then Riot released Team Builder, which is something like Duty finder, and who would have thought - Mid and Top had 20+ minute queues, while supports had instapops, so nothing even remotely suggesting a balanced role distribution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sirDarts

-snip-

---

Like I said before, its up to the individual whether or not they want to do it. They can always go back and catch up. Its a game, not real life. Thats like SE requiring players to finish Tomb Raider before moving on to 2... or Bioware requiring a completed Mass Effect 2 save in order to play 3. You dont actually NEED to finish those to enjoy the story and any important info is usually explained again for new comers. Hell, anyone who bothers to see the intro movie will pretty much get the gist of it anyway.

For the record, yes, I did do the story on this character and have been waiting. Doesnt change the fact that, IMO, its too big of a requirement for new players or even old players with new characters who just want to get to the new content, having this bottleneck waiting for them wasting their early 50s doing old content and grinding gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayoZ

Thats like SE requiring players to finish Tomb Raider before moving on to 2... or Bioware requiring a completed Mass Effect 2 save in order to play 3. You dont actually NEED to finish those to enjoy the story and any important info is usually explained again for new comers. Hell, anyone who bothers to see the intro movie will pretty much get the gist of it anyway.

---

Or Blizzard to clear Act IV of Diablo 2 before playing Lord Of Destruction, or finish Diablo 3 to play the new act in Reaper Of Souls...
Oh, wait...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sirDarts

The bracket part is very important.

I have played LoL for about 3 years, and participated on their forums for almost just as long - there was a bunch of surveys about what people main, the results were always pretty balanced, 5 basic roles, all right around 20% participation.
Then Riot released Team Builder, which is something like Duty finder, and who would have thought - Mid and Top had 20+ minute queues, while supports had instapops, so nothing even remotely suggesting a balanced role distribution.

---

Yes I did include the bracket part to note I understood it isn't a wholly accurate representation of the community :P But still, 20% is a pretty large portion even for just the redditors that took part.

Lol this thread again >_>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayoZ

*snip*

---

You are comparing stand-alone complete games to an expansion.
HW is an expansion, a story-based expansion to a story-based game, you can't play it without owning the original game, and you can't play it without finishing the story to a certain point.
There might be expansions in the future that won't be connected directly via the story and won't require you to finish anything, outside of a given level/iLevel, but HW is not such a thing.

FF games were always highly story-based, and FFXIV is in no way different just because it's an MMO. Areas were always gated by the story, characters were always gated by the story, and jobs were also most of the time (some FF games have jobs bound to characters) gated by the story.
If you don't like that, then FF is not a series suited for you.

Also the content might be old for you, but it's NOT old for new players who have never done it.

This thread here is excellent proof of exactly why the new jobs are locked behind 2.55. Perhaps by that time SE expects players to have learned to at least play their jobs to a minimal level ^^ DRK is looking to be the most complex tanking class as far as resource management and stance swapping is concerned, so I, for one, and glad that players will at least need a lvl 50 and have finished the story to unlock it. Not counting the sub 200 dps players in WoD, at least beating 2.55 means you experienced a few semi-difficult fights, even if you were carried, and is 'proof' of at least cursory skill. To OP -- good luck with GLD and PLD when/if you get it. If you stay with tanking long enough to actually finish 2.55, then have fun with DRK ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sirDarts

You are comparing stand-alone complete games to an expansion.

---

Funny, you make the comparison that its an mmo vs sp yet someone else just goes for Diablo, an SP game thats ironically made by a company that never required one to finish the story of any expansion to catch up. I didnt need to kill beat Garrosh to get into Draenor yet somehow I knew what happened going in. Diablo didnt finish the originals story then send you on endless fetch quests inbetween actual content and gear grinds leading to the next expansion. Did they gate new classes behind that too? Doubt it.

As for the rest, sorry but "its always been this way" isnt a good argument. 2.1+ may have been bareable in patches throughout the year, but as someone who actually did it all after the 2.55 patch, its mind numbing and long. Made only worse by the constant ports all over Eorzea and the gear grind.

Quote:

---

Also the content might be old for you, but it\\'s NOT old for new players who have never done it.

---

And I never said they shouldnt be able to. Im saying it should be their choice.

If the bot army can finish main quest than you can.

Because there are no main story quests in WoW ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zordrage

ok here is a rundown of my issues because ALLOT of people dont get my issue

1 the main reason i bought the expansion is the DK

2 i LOVE tanking ( Glad is boooring as hell and i have a PASSIONATE HATE againts axes its bassicaly immersion breaking for me )

3 i like the story BUT i could do the story and UNLOCK the new expansion zones even if they would allow us to play DK ( the difference ? i would enjoy the game WAAY more )

4 Dark Knight sooooo its DK DK DK i dont see a R as a 3rd word DK DK DK ( /angry kid mode off )

so i Enjoy the game ALLOT but im stuck playing classes i don't like all the way to 50 through ALL the story just to unlock a class that i Enjoy that will start at 30 so i assume i will need to fate grind 20 levels again with it to start questing in the expansion.

DRK ( happy ? ) is a main reason i bought this game and subbed for it i always liked this game but there was no a class i could get into with my immersion so i avoided it till these days.

---

Fate grind on tank? what.....? que up for a dng and do that far faster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayoZ

Funny, you make the comparison that its an mmo vs sp yet someone else just goes for Diablo, an SP game thats ironically made by a company that never required one to finish the story of any expansion to catch up.

---

Funny how you purposely forget the part of my quote where it specifically says that you have to beat the main story to get access to the expansion content.
Or funny how you consider Diablo a "single-player" game...

And before you use the "But Wow isn't like that !", you just have to remember that WoW, contrary to FFXIV and Diablo, does not have a main story tying content together.

Seriously, did you complain you can't face Malthael after he stole the Black Soulstone before doing Act II where you retrieve said soulstone in the first place ?!

OP you reek of a troll if I'm honest. Your first ever post on these forums is a flamebait thread in which your only responses are deliberately inflammatory remarks in response to everyone. You really cannot blame anyone for responding as they are.

Ultimately we don't know why the new jobs are locked behind access to Ishgard but it is very very likely that their job story is interwoven with Heavensward's story (just as the 2.0 class stories were interwoven with ARR's story). With that in mind it would not make sense to be able to play those stories prior to the events of Heavensward. SE have shown time and again that the lore and the story comes first and foremost in a lot of their decision making for the game. This is just another of those times. If you are going to play this game you will have to accept that pretty much everything revolves around the story. If you do not like that I would advise you to stop playing as this fact is unlikely to change any time soon.

im fine if stuff are locked behind stories etc

i LIKE that even when expansion is out old level content will not be soooo stupidly fast to level etc that you can get to 50 in a day or 2 alone ( it gives a feel that your character progression and time spent on it is not totaly wasted.

but im againts of locking a class to a lvl50 max level character that gone through the WHOLE story and then it also gets Downleveled to 30 for no reason and slap the new players in the face that preordered for early access.

also under lvl25 dungeons Flash - fast blades - riot blade - fast blade - riot blade - Flash - fast blades - riot blade - fast blade - riot blade. ( this is all i ever had to do and riot blade is the higest dmg ability and i never lost aggro. ) if this is not riotblade spam then what is.......


its not a flame bait just people using it as one its my honest opinion in wich i not attacked anyone.

yet people call me dumb from the BEGINING and you wondering why i respond like that ? lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zordrage

*snip*

---

1) It's NORMAL that you get downleveled when you switch your class in this game. The same happens when you switch to Rogue, fore which you need to have at least a lvl 10 in another class.

2) It's NOT a slap in the face, it was CLEARLY said MANY times that you will have to have completed MSQ to get the new classes or access to Ishgard. New players joining in on EA are supposed to be an extremely rare case of HC gamers that manage to grind through the stuff in a day or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

So I suppose you don't like to tank as a P or W.
Maybe you can try playing a physical DPS before unlocking DK, like M or D, or even N since 2.4. :p

---

Doff my cap to you sir, this made me choke on my red bull lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zordrage

but im againts of locking a class to a lvl50 max level character that gone through the WHOLE story and then it also gets Downleveled to 30 for no reason and slap the new players in the face that preordered for early access.

---

Your character isn't max level. Your Job is. That distinction matters. The point that has been made is that you need to learn your job from at least lvl30 on. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't understand your job at lvl25, so clearly this is important for a lot of people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zordrage

also under lvl25 dungeons Flash - fast blades - riot blade - fast blade - riot blade - Flash - fast blades - riot blade - fast blade - riot blade. ( this is all i ever had to do and riot blade is the higest dmg ability and i never lost aggro. ) if this is not riotblade spam then what is.......

---

Riot Blade does less enmity (threat) than Savage Blade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zordrage

2 i LOVE tanking ( Glad is boooring as hell and i have a PASSIONATE HATE againts axes its bassicaly immersion breaking for me )

---

Everything is pretty boring at level 27, especially for veteran gamers. DRK probably will be too.

Quote:

---

3 i like the story BUT i could do the story and UNLOCK the new expansion zones even if they would allow us to play DK ( the difference ? i would enjoy the game WAAY more )

---

Unfortunately, that's not how SE has chosen to implement the new classes. You'll need to finish the main story quest up through the current patch (2.55) in order to gain access to Ishgard and everything that goes with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zordrage

also yes at this level All i do is spam riotblade and flash thats ALL i need to do and its getting seriously boring im doing this since i got the ability loooool
it does the most dmg atm and i don't lose aggro ever and i dont even use savage strike because there is no point in it atm.

---

You should have Rage of Halone already, so you'd best get used to using Savage Blade. As a tank, you want to look for the skills that have "Increased Enmity" listed as an Additional Effect and prioritize the use of those skills. There's no reason for you to spam Riot Blade. The only real time you use that is in mass pulls if you need to recover mana so that you can continue to spam Flash. You won't be needing to do any of that until probably Dzemael Darkhold if you do first room pulls for experience.

You don't need to spam riot blade. you could level any one of the other classes.

FTR, I leveled this BRD to 50 almost exclusively on MSQ.


I had two blocks in 30s where I needed to finish a level to progress, and one in early 40s. Final one was 48-49 so I could do Operation Archon.


Leveling is hard though apparently?

As it's been mentioned, this is after all a Final Fantasy which is typically pretty story driven.

I really hated in FF1 when I had to get the rat tail in order to upgrade my classes cause I had to do a bunch of story up til then.
I really hated in FF3 and FF5 when I had to do the main story to unlock more advanced jobs.
I really hated in FF11 when I had to take one of the 6 starter classes to level 30 before I could unlock any of the advanced jobs. (/sarcasm)

While we're on the FF11 boat, can people stop using that as an example. Yes, you could get jobs and access expansion content without completing the previous expansion. However, you still needed to be level 30 on a base job to get an advanced job, a certain rank in your city to gain access, or a high enough level to clear the fights that locked the content (Promyvions). In FFXI, the simple act of leveling to 30 to accomplish any of these was an order of magnitude more grueling and time consuming than finishing the MSQ in FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

Thats not true. Also new players will get everything of the expansion. But not instant.

And don't forget: Its an expansion of an already existing game. Its not a new game.

---

Indeed, it is in the nature of an expansion and progression of an existing game and story.

ARR has to continue beyond the start of HW since there may be players who do not buy the expansion yet and still sub to ARR. Because of that, the availability of the new jobs requires access to the expansion areas, since those new jobs are part of the expansion, and they are therefore unavailable to players who only have access to the ARR areas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dement

While we're on the FF11 boat, can people stop using that as an example. Yes, you could get jobs and access expansion content without completing the previous expansion. However, you still needed to be level 30 on a base job to get an advanced job, a certain rank in your city to gain access, or a high enough level to clear the fights that locked the content (Promyvions). In FFXI, the simple act of leveling to 30 to accomplish any of these was an order of magnitude more grueling and time consuming than finishing the MSQ in FFXIV.

---

Can we also add that at lvl 30 you could barely even survive the shit you had to do to unlock some of the Jobs. You needed people to help you, cause there was no way in hell you were surviving some of the BS they threw at you.

It surprises me how some players if not just one mentioned mass effect - bioware game. Each mass effect series is independent from one another. They are not considerate an expansion of another. The very close example to FFXIV is the Sims. You can play the base game but you won't get any new accessory/cars/venues/worlds at least you buy an expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zordrage

I'm fine if stuff are locked behind stories etc

i LIKE that even when expansion is out old level content will not be soooo stupidly fast to level etc that you can get to 50 in a day or 2 alone ( it gives a feel that your character progression and time spent on it is not totally wasted.

---

You are sorta in luck then? Yoshi mentioned in a recent live letter in May that the story quests will give DOUBLE the XP they give now, so you wont have to wait that long in order to get yourself to level 50 and into the expansion content :).
So HOPEFULLY you wont have to grind through dungeons and just be able to run through the story in like a day or 2 to get into a job that you would really enjoy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lololink

I don't know what's worse...
That you use DK instead of DRK.

---

Because Dark Knight.

Just like in EQ, Shadow Knights are called SKs instead of the ingame abbreviation on gear: SHD.

Or in both games where Paladins are called Pallies, not PAL/PLD.

Except he's 27 on Thousand maws you have to tie in rage of Halone as well