RIP Astrologian

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Because Astro may not be able to provide big heals or heavy shielding with their barrier, it's like the RDM of the healers basically... It can do both but it's not great at either. .-.

Keep in mind that RDM never ever replaced BLM or WHM nor sword users just because they were able to do all three. Rather they were a side asset to them, much like astro would probably be with their cards.

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If the AST had lower potency heals than SCHs and WHMs, they'd struggle in Light Parties where they were the sole healer.
SCH works out fine because Adloq = Cure II when accounting for the Shield and Eos is free spam healing.

The RDM didn't replace the BLM and WHM nor sword users because those Jobs brought something to teh table that the RDM didn't, hence why it supplemented them rather than outright replaced them.
Do you really think the BLMs would get a place in XI parties if RDMs had the exact same offensive power in their spells while also providing healing and buffs? I think not.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

That assumes a lot. A large part of why people avoid SCH+SCH right now is because Galvanize doesn't stack at all, so what makes you think AST shields will stack? Especially given that SE's response to SCH/SCH not stacking is to let one of them go pure heal? And we've already been told they don't have the throughput of the other two classes, so taking two healers who don't have throughput would be a bad idea.

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And yet WHM+WHM is still allowed to stack.

The issue wouldn't be with the stacking of shields, its the ability to provide both shielding AND big heals at the same time.
It'd be like taking 2 WHMs and getting a free 9th slot SCH in your raid team.
You would have the ability to provide 2x large heals in addition to being able to suppress damage via shields when required.

If both ASTs stayed in WHM mode with one of them designated to switch to Barrier before any major AoEs to prep shields and then goes back to WHM Mode to provide those bursty heals, you essentially get 3 healers worth of healing in.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

snip

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Honestly, SCH and WHM don't need all the potency they have to solo heal. People were able to solo heal stuff like Titan HM in darklight stages before people were even able to actually clear it the way they do now lol....

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Honestly, SCH and WHM don't need all the potency they have to solo heal. People were able to solo heal stuff like Titan HM in darklight stages before people were even able to actually clear it the way they do now lol....

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Given that Titan HM has an ilvl req of 57 ... With 8 people that are overgearing the content AND know the content, It'd be kind of embarrassing if they couldn't solo heal it.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Given that Titan HM has an ilvl req of 57 ... With 8 people that are overgearing the content AND know the content, It'd be kind of embarrassing if they couldn't solo heal it.

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I said in darklight stages, that's not that high actually. Titan literally would almost wipe a lot of people with just stomps and healers had to know what they were doing but if the healer knew their class it was a breeze.

Anyways point is, that was suppose to be hard in those levels and it was a super big wall yet good healers were able to easily solo heal that without breaking a sweat. Just because Astro may end up being more complex doesn't mean they need all that potency in their general healing with HoT and their general healing with barriers to keep up on their own.

Another good example is coil; Cad healing in T1, healers would split heal one tank on both ends. Cad did super heavy DMG yet both heal roles were able to keep up fine. Astro possibly keep up just fine even if it had slightly lower potency just basing it off of what I know from current healers through these experiences and we honestly don't even know what the potency would be lowered by, that is if it's even lowered in the first place.

Lets also keep in mind that gear will be ILVL 170 by 60 and that means stats could be a super big jump from what we see now... I mean really... a BLM with 9k HP? Super big change imo.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

I said in darklight stages, that's not that high actually. Titan literally would almost wipe a lot of people with just stomps and healers had to know what they were doing but if the healer knew their class it was a breeze.

Anyways point is, that was suppose to be hard in those levels and it was a super big wall yet good healers were able to easily solo heal that without breaking a sweat. Just because Astro may end up being more complex doesn't mean they need all that potency in their general healing with HoT and their general healing with barriers to keep up on their own.

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By those levels I'd agree with AK/WP gear, but when you got into fullly equipped Darklight territory you started over-gearing Titan HM.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

By those levels I'd agree with AK/WP gear, but when you go into fullly equipped Darklight territory you started over-gearing Titan HM.

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True but not by too much as he'd still do a bit of dmg to the point where you'd almost be dead with just that and with those plumes.... oh the plumes... those dodging days were 'fun.'

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Originally Posted by Lillia

True but not by too much as he'd still do a bit of dmg and with those plumes.... oh the plumes... those dodging days were 'fun.'

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4TM1fkCg

Don't forget landslides!

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4TM1fkCg

Don't forget landslides!

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lol... xD

Is it bad that I actually giggle from that?

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Just saying no they will be able to doesn't really help or explain anything... could I ask you to go further into your reasoning? :x

And to just explain what I see? I see two astro's being able to heal enough to get by but not better than WHMxSCH combo which means two astro healings would be with struggle in comparison to WHMxSCH and the only unique merit would be their cards. I personally would only be more concerned on matter of barrier stacking.

Together with either WHM or SCH I see them working a lot better because they can offer a nice card buff and then the affects the whm or sch's counterpart could offer in a miniature form e.g slightly weaker HoTs or Barriers.

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Because if AST + WHM or SCH + AST is weaker than SCH + WHM then all the raid players will go SCH + WHM, just like how SMN and DRG were unwanted in the final Coil compared to the other jobs. It can be even slight weaker that players would not take them, a simple debuff such as dragon kick was enough to put dragon out of Coil for a while.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

dear anyone who does any 24 man raids 10% damage taken will always be on the mt's :3 sincerely someone who just wants to watch the world burn.

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Just put it on a Dragoon, no one will notice.

SCH - 60% Barrier, 40% Cure 0% Regen
WHM - 0% Barrier, 60% Cure, 40% Regen
AST - 40% Barrier, 40% Cure, 0% Regen, 20% Cards

(Clearly, very rough/poor figures, don't represent actual; merely meant for future illustration)

Astrologian could easily be built to support either two healers effectively (w/o being too OP or UP) or to where duo-Astrologian comps are viable (w/o being too OP or UP).

I have to be up in 3 hours or I'd expound. But please put a little more argument rather than "rawr, impossibru to balance! OP!!"

It's doable, I'm sick of these blanket statements. Sure, my above point doesn't contribute anything yet either... but like I said, up in 3 hours. I'll edit this tomorrow with a hard argument with supporting points, whereas you guys aren't even acting like you'll provide some sort of legitimate credence to your arguments.

Make one fine point if you wish in the meantime, create some credibility. Just saying, 'bu-but if they can do both it'll be either too OP or too UP or won't work in certain comps' is not sufficient. I'll see you tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

OP, please give me your time machine so I can go back to a point where RIP used to mean something.

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When you're finished, may i borrow the time machine to go forward to where every ones already playing HW, and they're so sure about every new change and job?

I'll believe it when I see it in HW! :P

The stance change limitation doesn't bother me. The only thing I'm wondering about is what it's going to be like to always raise without swiftcast, I can't wait to find out. :p

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Originally Posted by AmalahRose

The stance change limitation doesn't bother me. The only thing I'm wondering about is what it's going to be like to always raise without swiftcast, I can't wait to find out. :p

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Just play with bad dps, gotta raise em all lol. Ultima hm, titan fights, anything with plumes xD

They r gonna be the bad asses of pvp healing i bet.
"Can only switch stance when not in battle "

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

SCH - 60% Barrier, 40% Cure 0% Regen
WHM - 0% Barrier, 60% Cure, 40% Regen
AST - 40% Barrier, 40% Cure, 0% Regen, 20% Cards

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SCH has Whispering Dawn, WHM has traited Stoneskin and AST has hots packaged with heals in Diurnal.

Really fits Astrologian in my opinion. The Job is meant to predict the future, having to go into a fight locked into a stance means you have to try and do that yourself, think ahead and decide what will be better for the upcoming fight; mitigation or raw healing power.

Umm the referenced article notes AST gets skills from Arcanist and conjures but aren't there from Thm/wht? Maybe the article is not accurate about stance dance as well- http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...vent-5-18-5-21

I can see a reason why SE wouldn't allow changing between barrier and pure healing stance on the fly mid-combat.

It could more or less completely remove the point to both SCH and WHM due to the amount of flexibility. Of course, this is [only] an idea, and probably not the truth.

I dont see the point of making a out of combat stance change. If i want to heal like a scholar, ill switch to my scholar. If i want to heal like a white mage, ill switch to my white mage. The thing that i really was looking forward to in Ast was the stance changing, sure i wouldn't mind a 5 min cool down in battle, it would force me to be resourceful with my current skills and stance to suit the fight.

Again i don't see the point in make a out of combat stance change for a class that will be sub par compared to the dedicated healers, kinda seems pointless from a raid stand point, as the card buff will really have to be good enough to be considered over the sch/whm or whm/whm meta right now.

ITT: Assumptions.
You're all hee-hawing about junk and how it's going to replace so and so
and we have no idea what's going to happen. So much doom et gloom.
Who has time Machine this time so I can go into HW and see what's
all the fuss is about. I must've missed something. >___>

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Originally Posted by Parryacg

I can see a reason why SE wouldn't allow changing between barrier and pure healing stance on the fly mid-combat.

It could more or less completely remove the point to both SCH and WHM due to the amount of flexibility. Of course, this is [only] an idea, and probably not the truth.

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We don't even have a source from OP though so.....

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D...dtfQ/photo.jpg

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

info that slycer translated from a game watch article!


http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...vent-5-18-5-21)

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I loved reading this article , really provided a lot of extra information..

However I couldn't find anything relating to "you can't change stances mid combat"

Do we have a source that actually states this? I'm reading more sources that don't mention the stance limitations then those that do (currently none). It's a pretty big thing and I doubt people wouldn't be leaving it out if it was an actual limitation.

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Originally Posted by TheMunimai

I loved reading this article , really provided a lot of extra information..

However I couldn't find anything relating to "you can't change stances mid combat"

Do we have a source that actually states this? I'm reading more sources that don't mention the stance limitations then those that do (currently none). It's a pretty big thing and I doubt people wouldn't be leaving it out if it was an actual limitation.

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I've looked but I only found guides putting it in that you can't which.... I know the guides were taking information from others about this so it could easily be a piece of misinformation in there.

Edit: So in the video, it looks like they use a card, barrier heal, attack, do another attack (Which has been assumed to be an AoE I think?) then they use a skill that doesn't attack.... do one more attack and something like a medica. >_>

https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?t=4m23s

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Originally Posted by Lillia

I've looked but I only found guides putting it in that you can't which.... I know the guides were taking information from others about this so it could easily be a piece of misinformation in there.

Edit: So in the video, it looks like they use a card, barrier heal, attack, do another attack then they use a skill that doesn't attack.... do one more attack and something like a medica. >_>

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Well from the pax video he only said that it would have a long cool down in combat, but out of combat you would have no cool down, So the misinformation could start there. Again nothing in letter or videos by SE mention a combat lock on stances. And i dont see why they would mention a long cool down for a out of combat skill.

Translation depending - but didn't he say during the last live letter that he advised people learn one stance, then the other before stance dancing with the two?

Doesn't have much weight, but that to me implies they can switch? :X

Again though, if there are links or guides can we have one that states they cant switch? unless I've overlooked something in the bluegartr link, I still haven't seen it written anywhere.

Reluctant to believe the unofficial LL the guy held last night without a written source...call me stubborn.

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Originally Posted by Barimu

Can't switch stances in battle. GG.

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Before you post up a doom and gloom thread do you think you or maybe somebody other than a Dev should actually play the job first?

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Before you post up a doom and gloom thread do you think you or maybe somebody other than a Dev should actually play the job first?

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Hmm i think we all fell for another troll post. OP has no backup sources so im just going to put it out there and call this a troll thread cause it worked.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Hmm i think we all fell for another troll post. OP has no backup sources so im just going to put it out there and call this a troll thread cause it worked.

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Until the expansion is actually released and played by the public all of the rip threads are troll posts.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Hmm i think we all fell for another troll post. OP has no backup sources so im just going to put it out there and call this a troll thread cause it worked.

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Im agreeing with you here, think ill just bow out now and wait for the exp! :)

For those lamenting the fact that AST has lower base heal potency than the other jobs you're kind of missing something: that lower base potency comes BEFORE the benefit of their stance, and they always have one of the two stances up.

One of the stances adds a free regen to all their heals, the other adds a free barrier to all their heals. Who wants to bet that when you combine the base potencies with the bonuses you get a rough throughput equivalent to the other healers? It would obviously be underpowered if this wasn't the case and SE has generally been pretty good with balance so far.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...94#post2975294

Translation from the Live Letter - says you can switch between them, no mention of a out of combat limitation.

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Originally Posted by TheMunimai

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...94#post2975294

Translation from the Live Letter - says you can switch between them, no mention of a out of combat limitation.

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Yes, but reports of the out of combat limitation has come from other sources since the NDA got lifted.
Check here and here.

They didn't want to change the WHM and SCH dynamic, so AST can fill in for either.
It can't, however, do both at the same time (which would just make them the best) which is why you can't switch stances in combat.

I hope it still feels unique to play.

It's sad, but change stances during battle would be too OP, too much versality

Does somebody know if the AST shields can staks with SCH ones?

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

SNIP .

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WELL FINALLY!!

Someone linked something!

I'll still wait until HW to actually test it myself, but thanks for the source all the same.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

For those lamenting the fact that AST has lower base heal potency than the other jobs you're kind of missing something: that lower base potency comes BEFORE the benefit of their stance, and they always have one of the two stances up.

One of the stances adds a free regen to all their heals, the other adds a free barrier to all their heals. Who wants to bet that when you combine the base potencies with the bonuses you get a rough throughput equivalent to the other healers? It would obviously be underpowered if this wasn't the case and SE has generally been pretty good with balance so far.

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Ironically, a lot of the comments made about AST were made toward SCH when it was first added back in FFXI. AST will have it easier though imo, it is bridging the gap(and building its own spot on said gap) between two healing classes; SCH in FFXI had to do that between a healer(WHM) and a dmg dealer(BLM).

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Yes, but reports of the out of combat limitation has come from other sources since the NDA got lifted.
Check here and here.

They didn't want to change the WHM and SCH dynamic, so AST can fill in for either.
It can't, however, do both at the same time (which would just make them the best) which is why you can't switch stances in combat.

I hope it still feels unique to play.

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Please don't use mine or Orange Jedi Mans docs as direct sources, we collected information and shouldn't be treated as a proper source like a proper interview from a real journalist should be. You should be asking or providing sources directly from the press.

For those wondering the source for not being able to switch in combat is from Dengeki online.

ただし注意点として、戦闘中の切り替えは不可。パーティ編成を見て、あらかじめ切り替えておく必要がありそうです。
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/056/1056760/

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Please don't use mine or Orange Jedi Mans docs as direct sources, we collected information and shouldn't be treated as a proper source like a proper interview from a real journalist should be. You should be asking or providing sources directly from the press.

For those wondering the source for not being able to switch in combat is from Dengeki online.

ただし注意点として、戦闘中の切り替えは不可。パーティ編成を見て、あらかじめ切り替えておく必要がありそうです。
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/056/1056760/

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Thank you so much. >.< I was going around looking for where this even started from... it clears it up though. :)

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Please don't use mine or Orange Jedi Mans docs as direct sources, we collected information and shouldn't be treated as a proper source like a proper interview from a real journalist should be.

For those wondering the source for not being able to switch in combat is from Dengeki online.

ただし注意点として、戦闘中の切り替えは不可。パーティ編成を見て、あらかじめ切り替えておく必要がありそうです。
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/056/1056760/

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Didn't mean to imply you were direct sources.
It's much easier to link the compilations, honestly.
It's stated clearly in both your docs that the information is second-hand.
So if they want to delve to find the original sources, it's still a step in right direction.
The Dengekionline is actually sourced in orangejediman's doc too, ableit through another doc...

Thanks for the link though!

Ah there was a mistake in that article, it's been corrected to read thaumaturge and conjurer for cross class now, so we will have Swiftcast after all. :D