Melee in PvP

All you have to do to hide again is jump on pad and you can hide instantly.

There are so many things ANY job can do to actually just avoid being held even for just a single second that it's really stupid to believe you're holding a "good player" for 2 minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faltrask

There are so many things ANY job can do to actually just avoid being held even for just a single second that it's really stupid to believe you're holding a "good player" for 2 minutes.

---

Likewise, there are many things most DPS Jobs can do to counter other Jobs' escape mechanics. It's really stupid to believe you can escape a solid camper so easily and quickly.

lol. You can kill only people who actually think it's smart to care about anyone camping.. the best thing to do to camper is just "swiftcast-anything" + anything else and run back to mid.

I think last TWO Ninjas trying to kill me are still there bound by a blizzard 2.

Again, I don't believe you're not killing anyone, I believe you can do NOTHING about any decent player. You're just good at killing whimps. gj ;D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faltrask

lol. You can kill only people who actually think it's smart to care about anyone camping.. the best thing to do to camper is just "swiftcast-anything" + anything else and run back to mid.

I think last TWO Ninjas trying to kill me are still there bound by a blizzard 2.

Again, I don't believe you're not killing anyone, I believe you can do NOTHING about any decent player. You're just good at killing whimps. gj ;D.

---

I've actually managed to outright kill many healers while camping because they'd waste swiftcast on a root. That strategy is hardly foolproof. :P

But, once again, this isn't about me. Stop trying to make it about me to skew my original point: camping can, at times, be extremely beneficial to your team. Is that so hard to acknowledge?

I just don't think so, and I told you why. Is that so hard to aknowledge? Extremely beneficial? lol ok we have 2 different view about FL. You like to play NIN-solo in a 72 match, I prefer to help my party with whatever job they need.

Someone could explain to me how can i hit a moving target as a melee class ? (warrior)
Cause in pvp i'm forced to spam Tomahawk to be sure to do some damage since everyone run everywhere. Every time i try to use a melee skill on someone who's running, the ability is interrupted and nothing happen... even if we are one over the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mclyde

Someone could explain to me how can i hit a moving target as a melee class ? (warrior)
Cause in pvp i'm forced to spam Tomahawk to be sure to do some damage since everyone run everywhere. Every time i try to use a melee skill on someone who's running, the ability is interrupted and nothing happen... even if we are one over the other.

---

Thats lag, all servers are in canada at the moment, even the EU ones

At some point after 3.0 EU servers will move to the EU, in the mean time you can always use something like wtfast

Thanks you !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faltrask

I just don't think so, and I told you why. Is that so hard to aknowledge? Extremely beneficial? lol ok we have 2 different view about FL. You like to play NIN-solo in a 72 match, I prefer to help my party with whatever job they need.

---

Yes. It's definitely hard to acknowledge what you're trying to express when you haven't said anything to back it up other than words that amount to "but you can't do that" or "except that doesn't work". Anyone can make generalizations like that, but the fact is that everything I said is possible and even likely on average. Sure, campers might mostly keep bad/average/unexceptional players at bay, but the true strength of camping comes with holding and delaying the skilled players. It may not work out perfectly every time, but that feat's hardly impossible. Saying otherwise is simply wrong, even if your own experiences seem to point toward the other direction.

I've explained why camping can be extremely beneficial. In fact, I've explained numerous ways and reasons. There's actual logic to back up my claim; it's not just an assumption.

You try to help your team by being whatever Job you deem they need but stick only to one spot, where as I will play the class I most enjoy but will be where my team would get the most use out of me at the time. Both of us are flexible and help our respective teams in our own way. You're right in that we hold different viewpoints. However, that still does not mean that camping is not extremely beneficial to your team's overall success at times.

Ultimately, I fully respect that you do not believe camping to be a valid strategy. However, I have every right to openly believe that you are wrong. As do you. Which is why I'm gonna drop the subject here to put an end to this circular debate before we flood this poor thread with further largely off-topic nonsense. XD

Feel free to get the last word in edgewise, though. I'll let you. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandril

Beyond that, I'm also slightly disturbed that you seem to feel that people shouldn't play what they want to play if it's more beneficial to the team that they play something else.

---

Ninja is great PVP material, but because of their passive movement boost and hybrid utility, burst, & ranged -- not Hide. Time spent hidden is time spent not using the first 3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandril

Camping isn't even about scoring easy kills for points. It's more about logistics. If a single camper can manage to keep 5-6 enemy players busy for a few minutes, then that's a few minutes where their team in mid is lacking players compared to the other factions, granting an advantage to your (and the third, by coincidence) GC....

...Camping is teamwork, actually, for the very reasons I outlined. It aids your team by serving as a distraction. If I'm a single DPS holding up a single other enemy DPS, then my net cost:benefit is 1:1.

---

Such terrible rationalizing. There are 3 GCs. You camping means your team is sacrificing manpower in the Heliodome for the potential benefit of holding back 1 GC. There's 3. The only benefit to your camping is rewarded to the 3rd GC who isn't undermanned.. While you're getting your troll on, this third GC has the leverage to command the board. And the GC you're targeting isn't going to suffer from your camping unless they are already losing.

Your team -- on the other hand -- is shorthanded from the onset.

Again, teamwork would be a Ninja bothering to Doton the AWSs, Binding enemies, or Goading friendlies, focusing same targets as casters. Killing enemies alongside party members gives adreneline for everyone who hit them. Allagan weapon systems also fill adreneline for everyone, not to mention those tasty buffs, the Node is an instant Limit Break & Scoreboard Points. But "lawlz i killled blm on his choco, I'm so hard"

Snipe LBing healers in the Heliodome (Healers whom are actually healing bodies, not a 'died > respawn timer > return > choco to jumper > rejoin fight' Healer) has a far better effect than ganking one who's already died once and returned. Also, Raise? If a player uses Return after dying then their healers have already fallen behind enough that they cannot Divine Breath or Raise/Resurrect, meaning that team is already losing (no thanks to camping).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandril

Sure, campers might mostly keep bad/average/unexceptional players at bay, but the true strength of camping comes with holding and delaying the skilled players.

---

Again that 'skilled' player had already been killed (but skilled players don't die), meaning his team is already suffering without your help. Your contribution is redundant.

If you gank a player on their way to the jumper, that means someone had already killed them. You're not contributing with a double tap, you're just leeching off the hard work of better other players.

Camping is antithesis to teamwork.

I'm alright with the crap if you can just man-up and admit you prefer your playstyle. To each their own. But the line is drawn at rationalizing that there's some "tactical" (see: /airquotes emote) aspect to camping that helps deliver a win. There isn't.

That's BS.

If your team wins with you camping, you had nothing to do with it. Your team simply won it without you, but congratulations on getting carried!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandril

Yes. It's definitely hard to acknowledge what you're trying to express when you haven't said anything to back it up other than words..

---

It's funny you'd say that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandril

Cutting off reinforcements with a smaller force to buy time is a crucial strategy in nearly every war/wargame in existence. You can claim that it's not legitimate strategy, but it is...

..camping can, at times, be extremely beneficial to your team. Is that so hard to acknowledge?

---

I checked your Lodestone for a Forerunner achievement, but I'm not even seeing an ADS mount or a GC Pony.

Good luck earning getting carried for those rewards.

...

I don't mean to target you and I'm sorry if it comes out that way, but all this camping rationalization needs to be deconstructed.

I'd prefer prospective PVPers and newer players not to be misled about their role in Frontlines.

There's enough lolnins in my datacenter's GC that makes winning a challenge enough already, we don't need more.

Your absence from the Heliodome has a far more negative impact on your team than camping gives benefits.

Get good at meleeing in the Heliodome, everything else is secondary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandril

games are won and lost in mid.

---

Amen.

I know I said I wouldn't post on this any further, but I just can't resist such an thinly veiled provocation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenosan

I don't mean to target you and I'm sorry if it comes out that way, but all this camping rationalization needs to be deconstructed.

---

After writing multiple paragraphs worth of information that serves no purpose but to target me, you say this.

Right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenosan

I checked your Lodestone for a Forerunner achievement, but I'm not even seeing an ADS mount or a GC Pony.

---

Because I don't queue very often. I might play 3 games a week. If even.

This does not mean I am inexperienced, however. I have over 10 years of PvP experience in various similarly-played MMOs. I have experienced PvP which required levels of strategy and even chains of command that this game will simply never see on any serious level. I have led countless groups to victories with direction, solid play, or both. I've since "retired" from my more serious PvP. While I may not have extensive PvP experience in FFXIV, I don't need it to understand the ins and outs because, let's face it, FFXIV's mechanics are hardly unique. Experience between these similar games can cross over in a big way.

I'm sure most people reading this are rolling their eyes. "I really don't care what you think of yourself." That's probably what most are thinking. And that's fine. I'm not so self-important that I feel everyone must acknowledge my past feats - I had my glory days already. However, if you want to make this about me, then you need to be prepared to take the whole package, not just what seems to make you look good by making me look all the worse off.

Moving on... -Nothing- you said invalidates my points. I did not say what I said without the fact that there are 3 GCs in mind. I even said that there are right and wrong times to camp. If the 3'rd GC is creeping up on you, then you should not be camping because you have two competitive enemies threatening your team. If it's an obvious tug of war between the two lead GCs, there are no further nodes in the near future, you do not have one of the two kill buffs, and your adrenaline bar is not full - that's when camping can be extremely beneficial. Note the word "can", unless you somehow miss it again.

Healers are not always in the comfortable position to be able to cast a Raise in the heat of battle, and it is often faster to return to base and take the <30s it takes to mount back then it is to wait the likely >1m it would take for a healer to manage to raise you. Unless, of course, a good camper is there to make sure you stay. Aware PvPers know this.

Now, if you want to try again and argue against my points with logic, then by all means. But if you think trying to call me into question as a player does anything to further your own point or ruin mine, then you're mistaken.

Quote:

---

But "lawlz i killled blm on his choco, I'm so hard"

---

Sorry I am just gonna quote this xD

Just some examples for Ninjas action in 24p slaughter.

A Meele is nothing without a good healer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6x1LkIbUZk

@Faltrask.. You were healer in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5srt5Os4k

but all classes are nothing without a good healer, ranged or not.

As someone other mentioned it previously I see a problem for monks in the 72 Slaugher mode, they are very vulnerable in a lot of cases and one of their greater utility (One llm Punch) is not so useful as it was on the Secure mode, so up to me, compared to ninjas they seems a "worse" version of them for pvp.

Atleast they should implement a pvp skill, or add a trait to Fist of Earth to lower someone like 20% the damage taken by AoE attack, so they won't die every tiem that a node pop because in a 72 man fight people try to AoE during node to achieve random kill.