Summoners hope

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Originally Posted by Galand

Iam upset that we have a laundry list of items wrong with the class

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Like what ? MP problems aren't a thing anymore with overgearing (so we'll have to see if it's fixed in the extension or not before complaining again)

focus on DoTs + egis rather than summons ? Well, sorry to say, but it's technically correct, as the SUMMONERS use the essences of divinities to enhance themselves while the INVOKERS use the essences of divinities to unleash hell on their enemies. Though the naming has been a little confusing over the various FF games, because there are summons in each case, thus making the invoker a special case of summoners.

I don't know any "major" concerns about SMN but I'd be happy to learn more about what people are displeased with

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I don't know any "major" concerns about SMN but I'd be happy to learn more about what people are displeased with

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I can't speak for others but some of the things that bother me a lot.

1) Food not applying to egis.
2) Extra Acc requirement for egis.
3) Pet AI in general.
4) Enkindles nonsensical cooldown for the damage it does.

5) A resource regeneration tool that is not directly tied to our damage, so basically either take away the AF stack requirement on Energy Drain or give us something else. No other job has this requirement of having to sacrifice DPS to regen their main resource sans maybe a Bard but even they get Invigorate.

6) Miasma IIs pitiful damage for the MP cost.

That's just some of the things and they seem small, but it really takes a toll on the performance of the class. I'm sure there are more things people can think of that I'm not. Were not talking about the silly complaints about the image of SMN in FFXIV. Solely mechanic things from the current class.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Like what ? MP problems aren't a thing anymore with overgearing (so we'll have to see if it's fixed in the extension or not before complaining again)

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MP problems didn't stop because of overgearing. They stopped largely because of the adjustment to Ruin. Playing optimally is very punishing on MP, which is fine but had they not made the adjustment to Ruin I/ Ruin II, the main skills we use, MP problems would still persist. Factor in the use of Energy Drain (our only MP regen tool) which is tied to Fester usage with AF stacks, and this leads to further sinking into DPS loss which becomes a snowball effect altogether, which was largely why it couldn't keep up with BLMs at all before in damage. Also playing optimally you still will run out of MP in any current end-game encounter but in a sense this is where you would be right, overgearing has cut the encounter times sooner so that kinda helps.

People complain about Summoner because they should've had some kind of summoning system in the beggining where we evoke the power of the Primal for 30s which does AoE bursts and Big Signature Attack then leave. A Realm Reborns concept of Summoner was a major depature from the core concept of the traditional Summoner. Heavensward brings Summoner back to its roots with Dreawrym trance where they summon something it does its big attacks for 30s does its signature attacks then leave and go back to casting DoTs or whatever they were doing before.

I'm glad we're getting a huuuge mechanic change for Summoner. Also, I agree with Galand to an extent, Megaflare has been Bahamut's signature spell all throughout FF. But I can see it being added later on or maybe it'll be our limit break. I'm also really excited for Ruin III (praying it's aoe)

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Originally Posted by Alberel

BLMs have burst, SMNs don't.

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You literally have 0 idea what you're talking about. Play with better SMNs.

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tldr; Anything requiring ramp up time is not burst.

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Every job requires ramp-up. MNK needs 3 GCDs to ramp-up their burst. BLM needs 3 GCDs for single target. WAR needs 7 GCDs to get their Unchained/Berserk Butcher's and 8 to get to Inner Beast w/ those buffs. DRG is regarded as having one of the highest opening bursts and it takes 8 GCDs before they get to the ultimate culmination of their 'burst', 3 GCDs before they can start their oGCD burst (Jumps) and 4 GCDs before they apply the highest potency attack in game (Chaos Thrust which takes another 30 seconds to get the full potency from). SMN needs 3 GCDs, so no more significant ramp-up compared to any other job. Proper comparisons of burst damage by raiders are measured over the first 30sec-1min of a fight/parse which necessitates a ramp-up. In the first 30 seconds of a fight SMN can put out 3 Festers, Raging+ INT pot Contagion DoTs and spur / rouse Enkindle. Over 1 minute thats another 3 Festers. SMN is devasting on single target burst and pretty brutal in AoE situations as well trading 1 Fester for Bane and Enkindle/Aerial Slash being AoEs.

Quotes I've heard on TS farming FCOB since it was unlocked from people who were as unaware as you of what SMN is capable of for burst:

"WTF is your rotation" "I've never seen a SMN do those kinds numbers in an opening burst"

Their biggest weakness compared to the bursts of other jobs is needing 5 min for Enkindle before being able to execute this kind of burst again but for raw damage in an opener its hard to beat SMN and it ranks up there with DRG as having the highest theoretical raw number single target burst. With the addition of Bahamut Aether and needing to burn Aetherflow to start it, you can add 3 energy drains weaved during those first 30 seconds if they pre-Aetherflow before the fight which will likely cement it as the highest opener for any job.

What summoners on this board want is not possible in an mmo - to have some giant overpowered summons with super strong attacks.

It's not going to happen and it shouldn't happen.

Be thankful you aren't a manatank /whm.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Exactly! Also we are yet to see what SMN's new LB3 will be, maybe it will be summoning a full Primal, or larger Egi to do a signature move like Diamond Dust and then disappear. Or maybe it's Megaflare or even an Odin move, so many possibilities but we shall find out on the release of HW! :)

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I would LMFAO for days if LB3 for Summoner had an enormously scaled Titan-egi that looks exactly like he does now descend from the sky and do its uppercut animation on the boss. Just knowing how the people who have done all the Egi appearance complaint threads would be going into untrollable spasms of shock from finding out that's their new LB3.

Uhm...
SMN burst damage in HW??

Well... if Im getting the things right...
Aether Flow -> Tri-Disaster -> Bane -> Fester -> Akh Morn???

Cant that happen in less than 6 seconds? Thats pretty bursty for me :/
Also, what if this Deathflare (the Akh Morn thing) has 600potency minimum?? :v

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Originally Posted by loldrg

You literally have 0 idea what you're talking about. Play with better SMNs.

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This is just too true.

Whenever you mention this logic, people complain that ISN'T burst!
"You know what burst is? Damage over a single skill... maybe two at most!"

Know how many classes have burst damage under that definition? Black Mage.
Know how many instances that's actually useful in the game? Zero.

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Originally Posted by loldrg

You literally have 0 idea what you're talking about. Play with better SMNs.

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qft

Having 6 Aetherflow in the first minute of a trial let you release notable amounts of dmg. And that's just on starting a fight.

On addphase in Titan Ex it's the SMN who get's all emnity and most damage on the adds, if he does Raging strikes + DoTs + Bane on Titan and then Ruin2/Fester on the adds (+ spur/rouse + enkindle), while he can move as free as a BRD without losing dps (thinking of bombs and landslides).

And yet it's so amazing how many SMN's don't start out with 3 Aethyrflows banked, or to give them benefit of the doubt like they just changed classes to commence, they still start the battle with 0 stacks and not use it right away blowing their opportunity to have 3 stacks on standby.

Yes you can burst opener on SMN amazingly well but from what i've seen these SMNs try go through 6 stacks asap, and no just no. Atleast not until HW.

Weaving in the EDs on the opener atm is a DPS loss despite having high numbers at the beginning.

SMNs can burst stuff down as well, the issue some people point out but dont explain is that while it takes 4 GCDs for a SMN only to be post opener pets excl, the full force potency of a SMN is realised until the DOTs tick off. Yes it takes a MNK 2 rounds of combos to be fully up but from that point on providing uptime is maintained the bulk of their dmg is realised at the point of application.

Well on T13 I use enkindle in the beginning and it is back when twin spawns so no DPs loss there :p