The whole Summoner "has been re-worked" is sad

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

you mean worthless? ohh nooooo

p.s ff 6 7 8 9 10 12 will like to speak to you about worthless summons.

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May "worthless" for you? but thats the way SMN play... summoning stuff and they do the damage "for you" , if u dont like to "summon worthless stuff" play a nuker ,like blm, and do the damage "yourself"

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Originally Posted by Valoiz

May "worthless" for you? but thats the way SMN play... summoning stuff and they do the damage "for you" , if u dont like to "summon worthless stuff" play a nuker ,like blm, and do the damage "yourself"

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the point being they always did white magic (healing) or black magic too. and the summons were mp guzzling worthless dps.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

you mean worthless? ohh nooooo

p.s ff 6 7 8 9 10 12 will like to speak to you about worthless summons.

p.s.s i forgot about 4 rydia's summons were horrible compared to her op black magic

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This is a more of "Different Strokes for all the folks" because I used them all the time.
Just because they suck to you, didn't for everyone else.
X's were the best. Edit: I also liked BD's.

Screw new egis, I'd rather have Bahamut skills. Like someone noted, if we did have 6 different egis, there'll be maybe 1 or 2 that'll be determined to be the "best" one, and the others will never be used. Kinda like the current Tri-Disaster! I'd rather them give SMN skills that are actually worth using, which looks to be the case.

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Originally Posted by Valoiz

swiggity swoogy

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You know there are more than 2 final fantasy games right? And that the gameplay/ascetics changes for each one? Everyone has their favorite version of summoner, but there's no "true summoner." Summoner is whatever SE decides it is.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

This is a more of "Different Strokes for all the folks" because I used them all the time.
Just because they suck to you, didn't for everyone else.
X's were the best. Edit: I also liked BD's.

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this i agree with, what i was merely pointing out was people saying that summons only summoned, which is bs.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

You know there are more than 2 final fantasy games right? And that the gameplay/ascetics changes for each one? Everyone has their favorite version of summoner, but there's no "true summoner." Summoner is whatever SE decides it is.

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^--- this

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Originally Posted by Anneliese

Screw new egis, I'd rather have Bahamut skills. Like someone noted, if we did have 6 different egis, there'll be maybe 1 or 2 that'll be determined to be the "best" one, and the others will never be used. Kinda like the current Tri-Disaster! I'd rather them give SMN skills that are actually worth using, which looks to be the case.

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They should rework the egis how classic summon worked, away from pets.
Give every egi only 1 strong attack or buff skill, make the summoning cast time around 20 sec and the moment an egi get summoned it do the skill and vanish again. And between the summons the Summoner use his other skills.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

Oh come on. Stop saying that they said 100% they will add new egi's.
They only said -IF- they add new Egis it only will be with a increase of the level.

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Oh really?

"It's a cute summon, but in the future you'll be able to summon a certain old man and a sister clothed in ice who's also quite cute. Although actually I wish I could copy the Mammet with the Mirage Prism.
--Are those summons coming next, or will Leviathan?
Y: Leviathan, hmm... I'm not sure whether Ramuh or Leviathan will come first (laughs). I think it'll happen when the level cap is raised, so I really can't say yet."

Yep... no mention of Leviathan at all. Nope. No siree.
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201404/26052432.html

Granted they didn't say when. But now they've pretty much flatly said there's no new summons on the horizon, so they've kind of killed the dream.

SMN is looking cool. If you read the live translation it explains it better.
Basically when all dots are on we had wait time where we just spam ruin.
Now we gain dps stacks where we use these skills at the time dots are ticking away. As we do fester as well at these times.
Tri uses a stack so cast that then contagion then do your behamut attacks

Levi/Ramuh/Shiva being summoned as skins of the current Egis still matches his description.

Yep, saw this coming a mile away (that the changes weren't going to be too drastic). Except for the Bahamut attacks, I'm liking the sound of it since they're essentially implying it's new abilities for the downtime when you're waiting for Aetherflow to come back up. I'm now torn between my beloved NIN and my once beloved SMN to main

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Originally Posted by Destomius

Levi/Ramuh/Shiva being summoned as skins of the current Egis still matches his description.

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A reskin feels like a cheap cop-out though, rather than a feature that a subscription game should have. They won't have any skills of their element (eg, Garuda reskinned as Shiva now uses wind blade... wtf?!) and we're still stuck with a pet which is barely pulling its own weight. I'd sooner they nuke my DPS almost entirely and give it to the pet. At least then I'd feel more like a 'summoner' and less like a babysitter teaching Garuda the ABCs.

Ever thought that reskinning the animations can still be a possibility? The skins in League of Legends can come with different skill animations, and I can't see why that can't be possible here.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

A reskin feels like a cheap cop-out though, rather than a feature that a subscription game should have. They won't have any skills of their element (eg, Garuda reskinned as Shiva now uses wind blade... wtf?!) and we're still stuck with a pet which is barely pulling its own weight. I'd sooner they nuke my DPS almost entirely and give it to the pet. At least then I'd feel more like a 'summoner' and less like a babysitter teaching Garuda the ABCs.

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This. I just - I feel like I'm managing something alright, but what for, I have no idea. I'm still doing most of the damage after all, and the Egi is like... pew-pew-pew, a slingshot of an off-hand weapon SMN doesn't actually have. :| It should be the other way around, at least. If I'm a summoner, if I summon things - those summons should be the ones wreaking havoc and I should be the slingshot in their off-time.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Give every egi only 1 strong attack or buff skill, make the summoning cast time around 20 sec and the moment an egi get summoned it do the skill and vanish again. And between the summons the Summoner use his other skills.

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How many fights can you stand still for 20 seconds? This would be equivalent to "once a minute, if you don't ever use Swiftcast for anything else".

As an aside, I play SMN a lot and am mostly happy with it. I like the egi glamour idea, as I agree with those who think that having a ton of summons just means you'll have 80% who you never use and 1 or 2 you do. The current roles aren't bad, especially with more abilities.

Those who are unhappy with SMN love to make it seem like everyone is, but there are plenty of people playing and enjoying it as a DoT-based pet class.

(And anyone who makes arguments about it being against FF lore is ridiculous, the whole point of FF is every game is completely separate and they can change anything they want, including how classes/roles work ---- even in games in the same universe! (FFXIII 1/2/3, FFX 1/2)).

This is a wonderful change for me as a summoner. When something needs to die fast I do not have a lot of choices. I can either spam and use up a few stacks of AF, or put my bio's on and fester.

Swiftcast + Tri is going to be wonderful if I am near everything wearing and I need to move quickly.

We also have no idea how pets will be worked out, more abilities but what will they do? I am at work so I had to toggle with the live letter.

I've seen some who want to quit because of no new egi, then this job wasn't meant for you in the first place. Maybe someday if they make them look evil and add another 40 pets.

Some posts with people who want the pets to do the majority of the damage, this is fine but the one thing that stands out is when the pet is dead..so is our output.

Yes the % our pets do is a decent chunk but I can still perform in some way until my pet is back out, I'd rather not have it so if my pet dies then I plummet in my damage. Then we will be back here with people wanting things so that their summons don't die so quickly..they'll adjust it and i'll be back tanking Ramuh Ultra Mega-xor mode with titan until the masses come back and complain..then nugget pet gets nerfed and so do the rest and they die constantly.

I get a dragon loogie...I'm happy.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

A reskin feels like a cheap cop-out though, rather than a feature that a subscription game should have. They won't have any skills of their element (eg, Garuda reskinned as Shiva now uses wind blade... wtf?!) and we're still stuck with a pet which is barely pulling its own weight. I'd sooner they nuke my DPS almost entirely and give it to the pet. At least then I'd feel more like a 'summoner' and less like a babysitter teaching Garuda the ABCs.

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I agree. A Glamour System for Egis is pretty lame.

I understand the challenge they're facing: After all, if Titan Egi is a Tank, Garuda Egi is Ranged / AOE, Ifrit Egi is Melee DPS, what do new Egis (Summons) do? How do they stand out?

But that's the case fundamentally with most "Attacks" for other Jobs (if you treat Egis like a variety of attacks); they make it work for all other DD jobs. They should be able to draw from their decades of experience on Summoner and create interesting Summons (Egis) that stand on their own, even if they are just different forms of just subtracting health from an enemy.

And lore-wise and just fundamentally, it's lame to have your Garuda Egi, but with a Glamoured "Skin" of, say, Leviathan on it. :rolleyes: It's a cop-out.

Now that we'll be having Bahamut stacks I wonder if SMN LB will be Bahamuts Magaflare attack?

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Originally Posted by Kiara

But that's the case fundamentally with most "Attacks" for other Jobs (if you treat Egis like a variety of attacks); they make it work for all other DD jobs. They should be able to draw from their decades of experience on Summoner and create interesting Summons (Egis) that stand on their own, even if they are just different forms of just subtracting health from an enemy.

And lore-wise and just fundamentally, it's lame to have your Garuda Egi, but with a Glamoured "Skin" of, say, Leviathan on it. :rolleyes: It's a cop-out.

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Make 3 melees? People will do math, determine one to be better than the rest, and then we have two egis that will never be used. I'd rather have what you call a "cop-out" than everyone using Garuda or whatever the best one is.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea that you could set your Summon, Summon II, and Summon III to be the Egis of your choice. Solves the problem of trying to have unique things for six different summon types to do. There are plenty of attack animations they can use for each role, and they could either change all the pet move names to Egi-specific things, or rename them to be element-neutral. Imagine caster Titan tossing boulders overhead for Wind Blade, for example.

Ooh, and how about getting a carbuncle color for each primal too? This would also open the door for them to take sorta-primals that got farmed out to be dungeon bosses and let us use Egis of them, like Diabolos.

Well see that's the thing, Titan is tank, Garuda is range, Ifrit is Melee. So the thing is if they can't add on top of it what they can do is say Titan/Levi=tank, Garuda/Ramuh=range, Ifrit/Shiva=melee and you can choose between your preference, do you want your melee egi to be ifrit or shiva, they will still do the same type of actions but perhaps have different animations to them. I honestly think that's the best thing they can do with egis cause how else can you add on top of egis without creating an imbalance between other jobs?

Sigh

Just kinda feel like their whole "summoner is getting reworked" thing was a major troll on their part. Their was no rework. Just the same additional abilities that change up the rotation a bit as all other classes got. Seriously. They could have said nothing specifically about summoner beforehand and just introduced a few new abilities like with all other jobs. Least then there wouldn't have been pointless hype ( though I didn't really expect them to actually change anything.)

Summoner is a disaster is a disaster of a job. Might as well have given them scholars new ability to sacrifice your pet for magic boost. Given the summons lack of presence anyways wouldn't really have changed much. ;P

Should've just renamed it something else and been done with this farce. Those who only care about gameplay and only use the best summoner could care less. Give them cubes and change the game to text based and they'd be happy. ;P

I mean, look at the current Tri-Disaster now. It's got probably one of the best SMN animations but nobody uses it (outside special cases like PvP or Sav-T7) because it's not worth a GCD over the other skills.

That's exactly what will happen to the egis if they added new ones.

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Originally Posted by Destomius

I mean, look at the current Tri-Disaster now. It's got probably one of the best SMN animations but nobody uses it (outside special cases like PvP or Sav-T7) because it's not worth a GCD over the other skills.

That's exactly what will happen to the egis if they added new ones.

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I would say that's just proof of the design flaw that are egis in general than a problem with adding more.

I've been a sad panda ever since Carbuncle stopped being relevant as a Summoner. Just the thought of being able to use Carby again without a DPS loss makes me happy.

I do kind of want to point out that they were avoiding trying to talk about the actual Summoner re-work and tweaks to their skills (or some of them anyway since they also avoided talking about the tweaks to some of older skills for the other jobs as well) because they were mostly just introducing some of the new skills to expect come the expansion, but that's none of my business.

Carbuncle-egi reskin coming to a cash shop near you - please look forward to it.

In all seriousness though, this is probably the best way to approach the problem. Why add additional egi's if they're going to do the same functions as the current ones and people are still going to bitch about their designs?

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

I do kind of want to point out that they were avoiding trying to talk about the actual Summoner re-work and tweaks to their skills (or some of them anyway since they also avoided talking about the tweaks to some of older skills for the other jobs as well) because they were mostly just introducing some of the new skills to expect come the expansion, but that's none of my business.

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Also this. They talked about new skills which isn't really the same thing as the re-design standpoint. I'd presume a re-design to be the way previous skills work. We know that spell speed now affects DoT damage and there could be quite a few other things of this nature that haven't been said yet. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that the redesign was an aesthetic one, I presume the redesign is to make SMNs less lol in raiding save a few situations. Sure there were good SMNs out there but most SMNs were not good in FCoB.

Nah, nevermind. I'm sure they touched on everything that they changed in the ~5 minutes that they had to showcase it and talk about it.

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Originally Posted by Dement

Nah, nevermind. I'm sure they touched on everything that they changed in the ~5 minutes that they had to showcase it and talk about it.

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Actually, not really. They were mainly just talking about how the new skills function such as the Dreadwyrm stacks and Akh Morn. They also touched upon adjusting the pets better to make them more useful rather than everyone just using one staple pet throughout, and of course, Tri-bind and Tri-disaster were also talked about in great detail. Pet glamours were also said to be 'in the works'. No other mention about the old skills other than Tri-disaster applying all three staple DoTs as far as I could tell. I think they did also mention something about Eye for an Eye as well?

Anyway, they just mainly touched on the new skills and how they work (with Black Mages getting special treatment due to Yoshi-P knowing how to play it). Very little mention about tweaks done onto any of the older skills of all the jobs, but they have stated that adjustments were made to some of the older skills (applies to all jobs). To what extent though? They didn't specify.

The problem here is these changes were what smn needed, not what people wanted: The wanted part being the catch here.

The class will now have:

A method to AoE apply all their dots simultaneously
Have more interaction/abilities to existing Egi
Burst... a lot more burst.. gods we needed this.
Bahamut... we get bahamut. What says summoner more than bahamut? I don't understand... we didn't get get that in XI :p

The trance system could be the first step in what might be future trance abilities from other primals. We may end up seeind Trance garuda/Ifrit/Etc. It could be a method for them to help us fill in a void where we need certain types of DPS.

As for the egi appearance, looking through the history on just these forums.. not to mention reddit.... You can find god knows how many pots on Egi appearance alone. This is the first step towards addressing this. I remember a lot of people wanting carbuncle back.. well here you go!

As for the nitty gritty mechanics, we don't know. Spell speed was mentioned as being reworked for us a while back as Dement said. How? They didn't say. Until we get our hands on it, we don't know. But IMO this is what the job needed, esp in raid.

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Originally Posted by Dement

Nah, nevermind. I'm sure they touched on everything that they changed in the ~5 minutes that they had to showcase it and talk about it.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Actually, not really. They were mainly just talking about how the new skills function such as the Dreadwyrm stacks and Akh Morn. They also touched upon adjusting the pets better to make them more useful rather than everyone just using one staple pet throughout, and of course, Tri-bind and Tri-disaster were also talked about in great detail. Pet glamours were also said to be 'in the works'. No other mention about the old skills other than Tri-disaster applying all three staple DoTs as far as I could tell. I think they did also mention something about Eye for an Eye as well?

Anyway, they just mainly touched on the new skills and how they work (with Black Mages getting special treatment due to Yoshi-P knowing how to play it). Very little mention about tweaks done onto any of the older skills of all the jobs, but they have stated that adjustments were made to some of the older skills (applies to all jobs). To what extent though? They didn't specify.

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; ; I know it doesn't translate well over the interwebs but I thought the sarcasm was obvious on that one. I know they didn't touch on everything but a lot of people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that they did, thus the 3 simultaneous "SMN is ruined" threads going now.

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

The problem here is these changes were what smn needed, not what people wanted: The wanted part being the catch here.

The class will now have:

A method to AoE apply all their dots simultaneously
Have more interaction/abilities to existing Egi
Burst... a lot more burst.. gods we needed this.
Bahamut... we get bahamut. What says summoner more than bahamut? I don't understand... we didn't get get that in XI :p

The trance system could be the first step in what might be future trance abilities from other primals. We may end up seeind Trance garuda/Ifrit/Etc. It could be a method for them to help us fill in a void where we need certain types of DPS.

As for the egi appearance, looking through the history on just these forums.. not to mention reddit.... You can find god knows how many pots on Egi appearance alone. This is the first step towards addressing this. I remember a lot of people wanting carbuncle back.. well here you go!

As for the nitty gritty mechanics, we don't know. Spell speed was mentioned as being reworked for us a while back as Dement said. How? They didn't say. Until we get our hands on it, we don't know. But IMO this is what the job needed, esp in raid.

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I couldn't possibly agree more. If the point was to make SMN a more viable option to take into content (it was always a viable option but not ideal in some cases) then this is a good jumping off point for that.

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Originally Posted by Dement

; ; I know it doesn't translate well over the interwebs but I thought the sarcasm was obvious on that one. I know they didn't touch on everything but a lot of people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that they did, thus the 3 simultaneous "SMN is ruined" threads going now.

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Ah, apologies if I didn't catch your sarcasm. I assumed otherwise because you said "Ah, nevermind" at the start of your sentence. But yeah, I agree; a lot of people are jumping the gun here. We don't even know what they actually tweaked because it wasn't even mentioned. If anything, the new skills gives us what the Summoner job lacks in the damage department, which makes me pretty excited to try out when the expansion rolls over.

:)

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Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

Sigh

Just kinda feel like their whole "summoner is getting reworked" thing was a major troll on their part. Their was no rework.

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Just curious, what did they say the new moves for the egi's will be?

IMO, even they change Tri-Disaster to Tri-Bind, it still useless (And "somehow" useful in PvP). It's consuming MP alot compared with BLM's Blizzard II.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

Just curious, what did they say the new moves for the egi's will be?

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Nothing. Literally nothing was mentioned about the Egi's new skills. They stated that they are getting a rework, but that's the gist of it.

I don't think summers will ever be happy until they can summon primals. Yes I'm disappointed in no new egos but even if they did they were probably going to be ugly or people would just use an op one. I think they should just rename the job to Arcanist.

Honestly since they said the egi's can get glamoured in the digest I really don't see what the problem is. Not to mention everyone is freaking out when they were giving examples as to what they were adding, they said at the beginning they weren't revealing every new skill so the majority of the game isn't spoiled. People are jumping to conclusions, the game isn't even out yet and all of the skills haven't even been shown yet. Lets all just take a deep breath and wait until it actually releases before freaking out, yeah?

I dropped my SMN a while back and from the looks of it, my SMN attire will stay in the closet for a loooooong time. :P I like the changes to be honest, but I'm not really looking forward to play my SMN on HW at the moment.

So Summoner is focusing on a single Egi yet again, and they're probably going to just make Carbuncle/other Egis a "Pet Glamour".

Sigh...

Couldn't they have just... I don't know... Made it so each pet has its own mini-rotation, their skills are on separate cooldowns (currently they're shared), give Summoner some means of quickly summoning them (or just make the action of summoning them an attack itself). Done. You do your DoTs while the Egi does its rotation, when it finishes you bring out the next one, it does its rotation, rinse and repeat. Summoner actually summons, rather than focusing on a single Egi all fight long...

Christ... Scholar is getting a skill of off its pet for a boost, meaning Scholar will actually be resummoning the damn thing more often and I imagine Machinist will be switching its pet frequently based on what they said... Both are more Summoner than Summoner, who just gets to throw out Bahamut (can't wait to see how the explain that, I guess all the XI bitching over never getting Bahamut finally boiled over here) while using the same pet throughout the fight...

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Originally Posted by Arcsol93

Honestly since they said the egi's can get glamoured in the digest I really don't see what the problem is

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The problem is: when can we adjust egi appearances?

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Nothing. Literally nothing was mentioned about the Egi's new skills. They stated that they are getting a rework, but that's the gist of it.

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So then we don't know a lot of things, potency, cool downs, additional skills whether they're aoe, buffs, dots or abilities..etc..things that could make our job more exciting. I am going to stay excited and happy then, because it seems we're taking in the energy of a massive primal and creating a powerful move from it. To me that's a twist on what I'm use to seeing with summoner and on top of that our LB3 is going to be tied to our job. If they make that a full summon...oh well..I'm happy still.