Too little raid bosses

Nope I ended in LK because game started to be bad. Thats why I am talking about good things but not recent ones.

Why would the devs waste their time creating content that less than 10% of the playerbase are going to see/beat?

No Contested Zones.

Why not just make fun contested zones with wandering mobs, fighting others for drops/bosses and adding random raid bosses that wander them that you have to fight to?

Nobody seems to like Dynamic Dungeons these days, yet people love doing the same boring dungeons over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over...

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No Contested Zones.

Why not just make fun contested zones with wandering mobs, fighting others for drops/bosses and adding random raid bosses that wander them that you have to fight to?

Nobody seems to like Dynamic Dungeons these days, yet people love doing the same boring dungeons over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over...

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Especially bots. They can just repeat anything that isn't dynamic with ease.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Uhmm, primals and 8-manned content doesn't count.

Labyrinth of the Ancients; Syrcus Tower; The World of Darkness; The Binding Coil of Bahamut; The Second Coil of Bahamut, and The Final Coil of Bahamut are the only raids in the game.


Anyways, I do believe that releasing 4 "difficult" raid-bosses every 6 months is piteous. The constant content patches are great–the lack of hardcore content patches aren't.

(Primals aren't difficult, and shouldn't even be compared to the Raid scenario)

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OK let's break this down.
WHY don't trials count? Because they're filed under Trials and not Raids?
Odin, Ultima, and the EX primals are easily harder than the whole of CT, ST, and WoD. Steps of Faith has a lower clearance rate than anything else in the game short of FCOB. Hell, many of these trials have a higher iLevel requirement than BCOB, which still counts as a raid, right?
The only thing that makes them not raids is that you don't have to clear useless, time consuming trash to reach the boss.
In which case, t5, t9, t12, and t13 don't count as raids either.
It's just a semantic difference. They are just as much raids as the content actually filed under raids, they just have less BS to wade through to get to the good parts. (as well as shorter timers)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No Contested Zones.

Why not just make fun contested zones with wandering mobs, fighting others for drops/bosses and adding random raid bosses that wander them that you have to fight to?

Nobody seems to like Dynamic Dungeons these days, yet people love doing the same boring dungeons over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over...

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People seem to love the idea of contested zones, but when they're actually added, they complain about X group sniping Y mob, or they complain that they're congested, or they complain that they become irrelevant, yadda yadda yadda.
I've played plenty of games with contested zones, and they either get completely ignored because they're worthless as they never reward the currency that is used, or they're farmed to hell to the point of actually being less challenging than our instanced dungeons because there's technically no limit to how many groups you can have in the area. See: Every EQ1 dungeon before 2003, FFXI's Abyssea content.

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Originally Posted by Velthice

Why would the devs waste their time creating content that less than 10% of the playerbase are going to see/beat?

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I'd argue this, too. They ARE adding a hard mode for Alexander, so they ARE catering to those players...but they'll never be happy. Ever. They want more more more more more and will never stop complaining even if SE introduces the ability for players to create their own content.
Because other games have done that.
And people in those games still complain: "It's too easy!" "It's too hard!" "The rewards are OP!" "The rewards aren't good enough!" FROM THE SAME GAME.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

trials count ....if lets say onyxia or sarthareon , malygos , magtheridon ect counted as raid in wow , trials should count as raids here too . 1 boss raid encounters arent heard off

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Bingo.
There are many other examples from other games as well, but developers for a long time had it in their heads that players *want* to clear useless trash...

trials count ....if lets say onyxia or sarthareon , malygos , magtheridon ect counted as raid in wow , trials should count as raids here too . 1 boss raid encounters arent heard off

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Originally Posted by kyuven

I'd argue this, too. They ARE adding a hard mode for Alexander, so they ARE catering to those players...but they'll never be happy. Ever. They want more more more more more and will never stop complaining even if SE introduces the ability for players to create their own content.
Because other games have done that.
And people in those games still complain: "It's too easy!" "It's too hard!" "The rewards are OP!" "The rewards aren't good enough!" FROM THE SAME GAME.

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I'll close your argument a little later, but I had to comment on this immediately.

Alexander Hard is NOT a HARD mode. Compared it to Final Coil of Bahamut (Savage(which doesn't exist, leading us to believe it'll be the same difficulty as FCoB)), which was easier than the second coil of bahamut. Yoshi even talked about possibly adding in a Savage difficulty. If anything, they are catering to people who shouldn't be attempting the turns in the first place (persons with not enough time to invest; persons without fingers). I'm only happy that there will be a significant ilvl difference between the casual version and the normal mode (watch, same items, ability to dye them).

Instead of releasing Hard and Savage game modes, why not use those resources and time for more content?

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The people who don't count Crystal tower tend to represent a quite small portion of the playerbase. I'd ask you this. What would you give up for more bosses? Trails? Its not going to be dungeons or story content cause far more people play that content than raid.

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They should implement some challenging dungeons then.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

I'll close your argument a little later, but I had to comment on this immediately.

Alexander Hard is NOT a HARD mode.

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Alexander is, as of now, reported to have 2 different difficulty settings: The "basic" mode we'll be getting 2 weeks after launch, and the "hard" mode that will be about equal with the coils we currently have, 2 weeks after the "basic" mode.
We still don't know what appellation the second mode will get.
People keep throwing around "Savage" mode, but "Savage" is an appellation they give to content that was found to be too hard in testing. The Alexander raids will very likely NOT have the Savage appellation since two different difficulties are already being set from day 1, and the "hard" mode will have better rewards than the "basic" mode, unlike the "Savage" mode which has the same rewards as the "basic" mode.
The "basic mode" is being developed because a LOT of people were pissed that major story elements were locked behind the difficult-to-complete-for-85%-of-the-playerbase Coil raids. The real "meat" will be the "Hard Mode"

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Originally Posted by kyuven

People seem to love the idea of contested zones

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Honestly, mostly because they are not hard enough. In Everquest II they added a contested zone called High Keep Contested in which it dropped on par with raid gear. However the mobs and trash in that zone and bosses were ridiculously hard. Fun-ly so, and they arn't like long bosses, they take 5-7 minutes to beat, but if you die you start all over again from the beginning of the zone.

Contested Zones punish botting and scripting moreso then anything else because nothing is really the same, and you really have to watch snipers and other players.

However, the trash in the zone didn't do much damage, but put a buff on your group for each trash wave you pulled they do 50% MORE damage to you. So if you pulled more then a single thing (and there are tons of wanderers! and your aoes can go through walls!) you wiped! Start all over!

Actidently pulling 5 waves of trash mobs and getting a de-buff that makes mobs do 250% more damage to you is pretty much an instant wipe.

Trash mobs in this game, every zone i've encountered all they are is big HP pools, no fun or challenge to them at all. We need more interesting mechanics (and maybe even loot!) for trash!

What makes contested dungeons fun though, is they are never the same once you go into them. Especially Contested Dungeons which change a little depending on what you do in the zone or kill, like pulling down knobs on walls which unlock or lock hidden rooms or set traps for other groups.

Activating Traps which send mobs on other groups lol.

Guys,
Even if we count trials as raids.. they are now irrelevant since they drop Ilvl 90 gear, so there is no reason for people to even run them
As for the towers.. they are relatively easy content (LFR) that don't need a static group to clear, so i don't consider them to be true endgame content

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Originally Posted by Buzz619

Guys,
Even if we count trials as raids.. they are now irrelevant since they drop Ilvl 90 gear, so there is no reason for people to even run them
As for the towers.. they are relatively easy content (LFR) that don't need a static group to clear, so i don't consider them to be true endgame content

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Key word is "now". When they were released they were endgame. They became not endgame as the game progresses and new content was released. Doesn't mean they aren't raids though. Just like it doesn't mean that MC in WoW isn't a raid just because people can now solo it.

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Originally Posted by Buzz619

Guys,
Even if we count trials as raids.. they are now irrelevant since they drop Ilvl 90 gear, so there is no reason for people to even run them
As for the towers.. they are relatively easy content (LFR) that don't need a static group to clear, so i don't consider them to be true endgame content

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By your logic, again, CT and BCOB don't count as raids because THEY only drop i90 gear.

Then you have Shiva and Ramuh, who have rewards on par with SCOB. Are they raids, then?

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Originally Posted by Buzz619

As for the towers.. they are relatively easy content (LFR) that don't need a static group to clear, so i don't consider them to be true endgame content

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So what you're arguing about is the lack of max endgame content? As in, bosses at least on par with un-nerfed T5/9/13 to be considered a raid boss? You're barking up the wrong tree if so lol. That's kinda what savage modes are for if the difficulty is your main concern. Besides that, the redone game hasn't been out for very long (not really even close to 2 years yet), they release content for various interests every 1-3 months, and have been experimenting with many things (including difficulty). Their focus is not just max endgame raiding... it never has been, and it never will be. Their focus is to introduce "content".