[Spoilers] Disappointed at lack of phasing in storyline

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Originally Posted by Hioki

Incorrect, She was impaled by a long thin sword that only temporarily paralyzed her. There is a very good chance that if Cloud didn't kill her, she would have completely recovered.

Nah champ. That girl is dead. She was already in rigamortis before we even left the scene. She was also grayer than an alien. She was just short of foaming from the mouth, game of thrones style.

You should watch the video. There is actually science to back it up. :3

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Only paralyzed her? Um, terribly sorry but Sephiroth's Masamune doesn't have an auto-paralysis on it -_-

I've got some bad news. She's dead. Her assassination was in plot for a really long time. There is no gain for keeping her alive or around. You could have called her death so far out it's hilarious. They just needed a scapegoat. Unfortunately, SE's severely poor decision to BLAME IT ON THE WOL is about as believable as saying Ghandi did it.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Only paralyzed her? Um, terribly sorry but Sephiroth's Masamune doesn't have an auto-paralysis on it -_-

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No, but science does.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

No, but science does.

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Science does what? Sorry your comment didn't state anything to what you quoted.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Science does what? Sorry your comment didn't state anything to what you quoted.

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You should watch the video. There is actually science to back it up. :3

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJ_3_wYROc

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Originally Posted by Hioki

I've got some bad news. She's dead. Her assassination was in plot for a really long time. There is no gain for keeping her alive or around. You could have called her death so far out it's hilarious. They just needed a scapegoat. Unfortunately, SE's severely poor decision to BLAME IT ON THE WOL is about as believable as saying Ghandi did it.

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I've got some bad news for you, Nanamo's death(staged or real) is full of holes, we never see any proof of her actual death. none, nada, zero, zip, zilch.
what we do get is the word of a raving lunatic and a traitor. what we see could very well be her knocked out/passed out/tranquilized. she does not change color. go look at the CS again.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJ_3_wYROc

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perhaps you should look into Japanese Lore on Sephiroths sword first

from the comments on youtube
Ledge Buoy 4 months ago (edited)
I'm sure someone else in the comments already pointed this out, but there is a major flaw in this theory: Sephiroths sword. Sephiroths odachi is called Masamune and Masamune is often used in japanese fiction as either the name of a a single blade or a set of blades made by a bladesmith with the same name. These "cursed" blades are said to only be fit for calm and peaceful warriors, seen in their inability to draw blood, while their counterpiece, the Muramasa is fit for violent and aggressive warriors and sheds a ridiculous amount of blood. So the reason why they didn't add blood there (or during any of Sephiroths fights in Crisis Core and Advent Children) while doing it during other fights is, that it's actually a design choice most japanese would understand while we generally don't because we're lacking cultural information. The Shinra building is full of blood because corpses left behind by Masamune can still lose blood afterwards, it's just that the blade itself never causes instant bleeding while cutting which is also why there's never a drop of blood on a Masamune blade (not only in FF7 but in other games, anime and live action movies as well). The rest of the theory however is still pretty interesting and amusing xD

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Originally Posted by Hioki

I've got some bad news. She's dead. Her assassination was in plot for a really long time. There is no gain for keeping her alive or around. You could have called her death so far out it's hilarious.

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It's still all speculation. Hell, the final cutscene between Lolorito and the handmaiden implies that the entire plot went deeper than even Teledji knew and that he may have been a pawn too. There may very well be a reason Nanamo is wanted alive and the ambiguous nature of her "death" leaves the door open for her return, just like with the Scions. It's one of those "if you didn't see the body" deals. We saw her collapse and Teledji immediately barge in and start laying the blame, but nothing else has been confirmed beyond that.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJ_3_wYROc

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I would rebuke you but Wildsprite already gave you excellent advice.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJ_3_wYROc

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There's a reason why Game Theory "is just a theory". FYI, theory does not mean it's fact.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

There's a reason why Game Theory "is just a theory". FYI, theory does not mean it's fact.

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I love Game Theory, it makes you think and often blows your mind about things you might not have thought of before. but it does not mean it's fact. it's theory based on what one or more people noticed that "could be" what was intended but isn't nesicarily.

Yet another thread revolving around Patch 2.55 storyline content...

Whoever said it earlier was right: This whole assassination plot event has got people behaving as bad, if not worse, than the time of the death of Aerith in FF7, which has even been brought up in here.

The theories are just flying everywhere! To the point of which it's making my head spin! I was seriously hoping this whole "Aerith can be revived/isn't dead!" type of discussion had ceased to exist, but here it is again in full force. >_<

By the time Heavensward comes around, I'm expecting to see completely insane theories that are so far out there, it'll make me just want to ignore any thread pertaining to these discussions for the next 3 months.... or bring popcorn and watch the chaos unfold.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It's still all speculation.

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It's reaching hard. She would also need some significant purpose for coming back. TBH even if they bring her back as a sleeping corpse what value is she to anyone? "It's ok guys I still control 90% of the city but let's keep the coma'd lala so I can use her as an excuse to do what I want... when I can already do what I want." There is also the case that they announced her death in a party full of people. Who they, should, fully expect to spread the news within their circles and eventually out to the masses. There is a higher likelihood the girl is pushing daisies than a coma patient. The only way people would be satisfied would be giving her a 'proper' burial. Even then someone is gonna cry foul unless they see a decaying corpse and her spirit hovering over telling everyone she is officially dead.

I will agree that there is a pretty high likelihood the scions didn't die. They've survived worse. We also didn't see any bodies or reaching out of hands to the WoL while holding their neck in a choking fashion, weeping and crying as they breathed their last. There's that too, you know.

Heck maybe the other lala(teledi) is alive. I mean we only saw him fall over. Maybe he just fainted in panic from Raubhan's bloodlust. We never checked for a pulse and confirmed his dead body. We were all escaping and such. Everybody's alive! No harm, no foul! Except an arm...

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Originally Posted by Hioki

It's reaching hard. She would also need some significant purpose for coming back. TBH even if they bring her back as a sleeping corpse what value is she to anyone? "It's ok guys I still control 90% of the city but let's keep the coma'd lala so I can use her as an excuse to do what I want... when I can already do what I want." There is also the case that they announced her death in a party full of people. Who they, should, fully expect to spread the news within their circles and eventually out to the masses. There is a higher likelihood the girl is pushing daisies than a coma patient. The only way people would be satisfied would be giving her a 'proper' burial. Even then someone is gonna cry foul unless they see a decaying corpse and her spirit hovering over telling everyone she is officially dead.

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bah I think you're just so determined that she is dead that you can't see the holes in the story enough to realize she likely isn't.
you keep arguing things that didn't happen, she did not change color. To bring another argument here Nanamo is a beloved character, that enough would be to keep enough details out to be able to bring her back if you wanted to.

I think you just want Nanamo to be dead to validate your own arguments at this point

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

There's a reason why Game Theory "is just a theory". FYI, theory does not mean it's fact.

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An extremely good theory ;o It's always worth bringing up any time there is a maybe she's dead, maybe she isn't.

I'd prefer it if Nanamo stayed dead. The Status Quo of the 3 nations is terribly weak nations in regional conflicts that can't keep their own borders safe., they need things to shake them up.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

bah I think you're just so determined that she is dead that you can't see the holes in the story enough to realize she likely isn't.
you keep arguing things that didn't happen, she did not change color. To bring another argument here Nanamo is a beloved character, that enough would be to keep enough details out to be able to bring her back if you wanted to.

I think you just want Nanamo to be dead to validate your own arguments at this point

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She is pretty worthless as a plot character though. She's easily the weakest leader politically. She even tells you how much of a failure the political environment has been with her in 'power'. I think people only like her 'cause she's a lala. >.>
Her death wasn't shocking and probably the most predictable. The story can only really get better when she isn't in any form of power. TBH, I'm expecting some garlean influence in Ul'dah at some point with lolorito betrayed/killed over a petty demand. Now that would be something.

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I think you just want Nanamo to be dead to validate your own arguments at this point.

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Yes! Yes, I would love her to be dead! Not to just validate my arguments but because we might see a good story come out of it. Her being dead is a fantastic plot device!

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you keep arguing things that didn't happen, she did not change color.

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What else am I arguing that didn't happen? After rewatching, I was mistaken on the color it was lighting playing tricks on me. She was not grey, but she is most definitely dead.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

She is pretty worthless as a plot character though. She's easily the weakest leader politically. She even tells you how much of a failure the political environment has been with her in 'power'. I think people only like her 'cause she's a lala. >.>
Her death wasn't shocking and probably the most predictable. The story can only really get better when she isn't in any form of power. TBH, I'm expecting some garlean influence in Ul'dah at some point with lolorito betrayed/killed over a petty demand. Now that would be something.

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some players are speculating that she is infact Tataru and that the one we watched fall to the floor was one of her handmaidens in disguise....I love theories players can come up with.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

She was not grey, but she is most definitely dead.

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we never get any proof of that, none. what we do see is an NPC that could otherwise have fainted. oh and some liquid on the floor with a goblet and her crown. the only thing we get about her being dead is from Teledji barging in with guards which proves he knew something was up. and the traitor Ilberd telling Raubahn that he killed her. but what we never get is any actual proof she is dead. nothing.

look you could be right, maybe she is dead but you are arguing without any proof of it. only speculation.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

some players are speculating that she is infact Tataru and that the one we watched fall to the floor was one of her handmaidens in disguise....I love theories players can come up with.

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That would be something lol. Did we even know if she had another handmaiden? Nanamo also seems too far under lock and key that she would be able to get out as Tataru to do secretarial work. I think she was able to get out to visit the tree early on but I remember a lot of guards were on alert looking for her.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

some players are speculating that she is infact Tataru and that the one we watched fall to the floor was one of her handmaidens in disguise....I love theories players can come up with.

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Nanamo and Tataru have completely different personalities. No idea what they are basing the assumption on.

As far as Nanamo being dead or not, I suppose it could go either way, but I lean heavily toward her being dead. There are several reasons. Firstly, her being poisoned in some nonlethal manner makes no sense at all. If they wanted her alive they could have just detained her and the WoL the way the did and acted out the entire rest of the story in the same fashion. The only difference would be whether or not the WoL thinks she's dead, but it doesn't really seem as though the WoL was meant to leave the city at all so what would that matter?

On top of that, the WoL was to be framed (as stupid an idea as it is) so there should be something to frame him/her for. Framing the WoL for weakly poisoning the sultana would be a very bizarre move. Further, the syndicate obviously wanted to remove Nanamo. She was already a puppet, so if they merely wanted to control her/ ignore her 'power' they didn't need to do anything. There are also now several powerful people who at least think she's dead and should be expected to at least act as if she is dead. This especially doesn't seem to play into the Syndicate's hand if she is in fact alive.

The second she said she wanted to abdicate and form a democracy you could see she would likely never live to do it (2 patches ago I think). Keeping her alive (even if she was spirited away by allies and healed) would have to serve some purpose to the story. I can't imagine what that might be considering the circumstances. If she'd gone through with her original intentions she'd no longer be an important, powerful character. So keep her alive such that she can fulfill her ambition of becoming irrelevant?

I could be wrong, though. Perhaps the assassination attempt (that I think even she saw coming a mile away) would have lit a fire in her and changed her stance. Maybe she was/ will be healed by allies and removed from the city only to return and try to retake the throne whilst removing the syndicate and their ilk entirely. Maybe that's what the other GC leaders did while fleeing, though I doubt it.

EDIT: for the way they handled Ul'Dah and Mor Dhona -- I think it's fine. A bit too convenient I suppose, but it makes some sense at least. I wish they'd done a bit more I guess. Obviously they can change out any non-vital NPCs based on player progress and that would have allowed for a pretty different environment. I think actually allowing combat in the city might have been difficult technically, and confusing for other players. Actually phasing the city into alternative zones for that purpose might have worked or been even more confusing. It really depends on how much they value character interaction within the city. Though I think beating up some brass blades and crystal braves might have been fun, I think the experience would prove annoying after the first week or two of not being able to walk through (let alone AFK in) Ul'Dah and Mor Dhona.

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Originally Posted by SQBoard

I think as feedback goes, why does it have to lock you out of uldah?

This could've been a perfect opportunity for the devs to add more depth to the city by having alternate means to go to those functional npcs like guild contacts and such. A hint of this is in the story....tunnels.

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Oh, I agree. I actually stated in my post that I agree some consequences would be fun.

I would be against being completely locked out of Ul'Dah as some have suggested.

As an IF Officer and one of many who call Ul'Dah home, I refuse to believe our beloved Sultana is no more.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

not really

what we saw was a body that could very well be passed out. no proof of actual death. she could be dead I'll give you that but they left it wide open. besides that you can't compare her to Aerith. Aerith was stabbed through her back/midsection by a sword not poisoned

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Uh, yeah...

she was poisoned, clawing at her throat and then seized and fell out of her chair.
I'm pretty sure there's even a real world poison that does that. What she basically had was something that caused her throat to swell, blocking her windpipe. You only have about 2 minutes of that before you die. No one was around to treat her, and no one had any reason or ability to. Everyone in the room was either being accosted by guards or in on the assassination attempt. She's dead.
She has joined the choir invisible. This sultana is no more. She has ceased to be. This is an ex-sultana. If she hadn't died in a building she'd be pushing up the daisies.
Don't get me wrong I actually like her. But she's dead. Her narrative purpose has been served, and the only reason she'd "come back" is as a spirit advisor, undead abomination, or impostor.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Uh, yeah...

she was poisoned, clawing at her throat and then seized and fell out of her chair.
I'm pretty sure there's even a real world poison that does that. What she basically had was something that caused her throat to swell, blocking her windpipe. You only have about 2 minutes of that before you die. No one was around to treat her, and no one had any reason or ability to. Everyone in the room was either being accosted by guards or in on the assassination attempt. She's dead.
She has joined the choir invisible. This sultana is no more. She has ceased to be. This is an ex-sultana. If she hadn't died in a building she'd be pushing up the daisies.
Don't get me wrong I actually like her. But she's dead. Her narrative purpose has been served, and the only reason she'd "come back" is as a spirit advisor, undead abomination, or impostor.

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nah there really is no proof of her actually being dead. what we saw happened too fast. there are pleanty of explainations as to what we got, however what we did get is full of enough holes(which I believe were done on purpose) to go in either direction. but lets not argue this since we still need to see how it plays out.

and fyi she had enough time for someone to give her an antidote. it wasn't more than a minute before Teledji barged in on you and started accusing you and that was a very fast scene before it pans to the banquit again. and I'll give you a rebuttle, we have no idea that there was nobody to treat her. she has countless servants, any one of which could have been hiding.

I'll accept her death if that is how it plays out but, not till they give us more than they did about it. I refuse to accept the words of a raving money hungry lunatic and a traitor and a CS that doesnt show us enough to prove anything

In general, me too. Not just for this last bit but the entirety of the story line. There are so many missed opportunities along the way to show the player's impact on the world through phase that it is ridiculous.

And I know why. I know people THINK that phasing causes problems in games where if you're on a different phase plane then you wont be able to see other character who aren't. Yeah that's true, in WoW... 6 YEARS AGO. Those kinds of issues have mostly been resolved since. There are quite a few MMOs out there that do a really good job at including phasing and guess what... It doesn't effect game play at all.

In my opinion this could be easily solved by forcing us to wear some new head gear given in MSQ while going into Uldah. It might be something like hood which would restrict NPCs from looking into our faces.
It is not bulletproof lore solution, but it would be better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

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Bad example is bad. Said poison wouldnt be kept in a vial of all things. Or leave traces if it was. Dont headcanon this.

The only fact the scene shows is someone either passing out or dying.

In terms of lack of phasing i think the following thought should come to mind.

The reason why we see these events take place now is so that we can enter Ishgard upon the expansion being really. Take a step back and think to yourself, would you really want to have to go through a 50-hr prologue before being able to enter Ishgard? People would just burn through the CS just so they can be the firs to enter Ishgard but because the "ending" to 2.0 story is an extension to 3.0 they decided rather than wait for the big reason behind going to Ishgard to just add it now.

Of course the downside of this is that yes you still pretty much remain a free man going through Mor Dhona and Ul'dah but honestly I think it's better then saving all those CS for 3.0 release.

Go back to Ul'dah and/or Mor Dhona and talk to some relevant NPCs. It was done fine. There are reasons you can just walk right in like nothing happened. Read NPC dialogue.

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Originally Posted by Hieral

Go back to Ul'dah and/or Mor Dhona and talk to some relevant NPCs. It was done fine. There are reasons you can just walk right in like nothing happened. Read NPC dialogue.

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But every square foot of eorzea? These are the same folks that still have bandits, beastmen and garlean motels? People do realize our characters are still capable of getting into scuffles in the open world, right? They way folks word our support we should have npc groupies kicking all the butts in our stead.

I remember the crystal braves were an independent organization for handling conflicts not concerning the city state governments. Even unorganized banditry still exists in Eorzea, surely the corrupt braves are capable of going underground.

And if it is a problem of having their score after our character only, well that sounds like a good way to repurpose certain solo instance areas for a new fight entirely.