Stop relying on RNG for loot drops.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

This is true :) In 1.0, we each got our own chest at the end of the primal fights, or in open world content, we got our own key to open a chest for a chance to get gear. Anyway, we did get tokens too and that certainly did not mean everyone got everything in a week. Even with tokens it took me a good long while to accumulate all of the Ifrit weapons. ^^ The RNG effect was still there, but there was a chance you could get a token drop, and I think it was 10 of them would allow you to go to Rowena to pick a weapon of your choice. You could even pass the token to someone else in your PT if you wanted.

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Token drop was RNG ^^
Only the tokens from Garuda was 100% drop.

So I've been running Odin all today and yesterday, doing absolutely nothing else in-game. Ignoring all my tomes, roulettes, relic, nothing but Odin.
I've gained no new pieces.

It's absolutely ridiculous that the combined efforts of 8 people should only be rewarded by one piece out of six for a single person.
That's a 2.1% reward for their efforts.

This system should have died years ago.

Only thing I'd want to see changed as far as RNG with loot drops is like, maybe make more than one item drop per boss? A lot of other MMOs have bosses that drop 1-3 items, all nicely RNG selected. Would like that here also.

I've said it countless times already in so many other threads on this forum but I'll say it yet again:

Smart RNG

The fact is true RNG does not work well as a reward system due to its potential for extreme statistical outliers. They may happen rarely but they DO happen and the players that fall into those brackets are essentially unfairly punished by the system for no reason. Smart RNG is basically 'fake' RNG wherein every failed roll for something improves your odds the next time you roll for it. Eventually, after a horrendous string of bad luck, the algorithm would adjust your odds to a full 100% chance.

The result: Lucky players still get their drops on the first run, typical players get their drops after a few days or weeks of farming but those unlucky players would eventually be guaranteed the drop. I really don't know why more games don't use this..

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Oh please. Don't you think it's at least a little bit unfair that some players like me have done Garuda 100 times without a mount to show for it.

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Not even a little bit. I've run Garuda well over 100 times and I still don't have a mount. It's frustrating but it's still a fair playing field. Chalk it up to bad luck and stop being so damn entitled.

The fact that you never can be certain you're going to get what you want (or get anything at all) is what makes it thrilling, in my opinion.

Instead of making a long thread complaining about RNG drops, just make or take a group of 7 friends into the content you want to play to get your items. Or make a party finder that has a certain item that you reserve for yourself. Most people can find 7 other friends that would run a trial or dungeon a few times a night to help out. And if you do the party finder with a locked loot to yourself people will join who either have that piece already or don't care about it. Just a suggestion to try out.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

The fact that you never can be certain you're going to get what you want (or get anything at all) is what makes it thrilling, in my opinion.

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See, think of it like trading cards. If you went and bought a pack of Yu-Gi-Oh cards or whatever, and the pack was empty, you'd be pretty pissed. Or if you bought a back with 8 people and only one person could get it, not exactly fun or thrilling in my opinion.
If however, it was actually like a packet of cards, where you are guaranteed something to drop and get, then that would be awesome. Even if it was something you already had, 'cause the game could handle that by allowing you to trade with others, what you have multiple of, someone else might need and they might have something you want.

That's at least one way they could deal with the situation that's still random, still thrilling, though fair and even promotes community interaction and not having people compete to make progress.

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Originally Posted by Mistoltin

See, think of it like trading cards. If you went and bought a pack of Yu-Gi-Oh cards or whatever, and the pack was empty, you'd be pretty pissed. Or if you bought a back with 8 people and only one person could get it, not exactly fun or thrilling in my opinion.
If however, it was actually like a packet of cards, where you are guaranteed something to drop and get, then that would be awesome. Even if it was something you already had, 'cause the game could handle that by allowing you to trade with others, what you have multiple of, someone else might need and they might have something you want.

That's at least one way they could deal with the situation that's still random, still thrilling, though fair and even promotes community interaction and not having people compete to make progress.

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I'd be pissed in the trading card example because I actually paid money for something advertised on the package and got nothing.

Going into Odin, there's an understanding that I may end up empty handed (aside from tomes). Just like I don't expect to win the Jumbo Cactpot every week.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

I'd be pissed in the trading card example because I actually paid money for something advertised on the package and got nothing.

Going into Odin, there's an understanding that I may end up empty handed (aside from tomes). Just like I don't expect to win the Jumbo Cactpot every week.

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With the Cactpot though, all you're doing is buying a ticket.
With Odin, I had to grind to 50 and then to ilvl 90 just to have a chance at the fight, and then I have to actually beat the fight which even when I'm with a decent group still makes it with a couple of seconds to bare due to the ending mechanic, to do all that and lose on a 'gamble' is disheartening, to say the absolute least.

The current (and extemly terrible) RNG makes me quit dungeons very soon - (makes me quit playing this game and playing other games.)
I dont even waste my time to try them! (<-I never did any extrem primal or Coils run in my 1,5years of playing) -> game dungeons gets bored fast due the fact you wont get anything youre looking for after your hard work no matter how good or stupid youre playing.

I had 57 chances(I only collected my weekly gear for my 2 chars on my wish list!!) to get the dark cloud minion from CT3 and lost them all. mostly rolled numbers below 35. way to often number below 10!
Really nice!! D: <

Luck based loot really is an awefull idea.
Bring tokens. Or double the items in a chest. not just 1 item for whole 8 or 24 people...

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

The current (and extemly terrible) RNG makes me quit dungeons very soon - (makes me quit playing this game and playing other games.)
I dont even waste my time to try them! (<-I never did any extrem primal or Coils run in my 1,5years of playing) -> game dungeons gets bored fast due the fact you wont get anything youre looking for after your hard work no matter how good or stupid youre playing.

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Lets have a closer look at gatherer or crafter:
Try to get 100% HQ at 4-Star crafts... you are forced to gamble!

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Originally Posted by Mistoltin

With the Cactpot though, all you're doing is buying a ticket.
With Odin, I had to grind to 50 and then to ilvl 90 just to have a chance at the fight, and then I have to actually beat the fight which even when I'm with a decent group still makes it with a couple of seconds to bare due to the ending mechanic, to do all that and lose on a 'gamble' is disheartening, to say the absolute least.

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You didn't grind to 50 and attain an ilvl of 90+ *just* to fight Odin, did you? That's a bit unfair to say all the work you had already put in for other things should be applied to the Odin drop situation here.

And sure, all you have to do is buy a Cactpot ticket....and then wait an entire week between drawings, just to find out you've lost. You can fight Odin all day long, everyday.

While we're sort of on the subject, I think the Puff of Darkness should be a guaranteed drop instead of random since you have to compete with 23 other people every time it does drop. The Syrcus Tower minion should be, too.

Lol, I would take horrible RNG on drops any day compared to the boring tome grind. It doesn't even matter if I get the drop or not because in the end gear is worthless a couple of months later anyway. Keep it up SE, in fact bring it in for normal dungeons too please.

There is a huge difference between "Everyone gets everything in the first week" and "1% drop rates are the best".

You could easily do something like this: (the following is made up numbers, but is a basic enough formula)

1) Keep the weekly lock out (so people cant have everything in the first week)

2) Give X somethings (tokens etc) to each player that completes each "floor" of the raid. X being based on the % of the gear drop. So if you should get 1 piece every 10 attempts, you get 1 token and you need 10 to get a piece of gear. It is, at its core, the same thing. a 10% RNG means, that the player should get, in theory, 1 piece of gear every 10 runs. All the "tokens" in this case would do, is remove the 100+ runs without a gear drop and the gear drop on the first try. It rewards people who work hard and continually grind out the dungeon (keeping people playing) without rewarding pure dumb luck.

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin

Lol, I would take horrible RNG on drops any day compared to the boring tome grind. It doesn't even matter if I get the drop or not because in the end gear is worthless a couple of months later anyway. Keep it up SE, in fact bring it in for normal dungeons too please.

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Its not black or white, nor RNG or not...
We are asking for a better system, lets call it a hybrid system!
RNG should support the player and not play against them.
RNG should make it "random" and not pure gambling...
RNG should become a players friend and not his most hated enemy!

RNG = 94% chance to meld a 520k Materia for Novus. FAILS!

RNG = trying to HQ a 4 star item. RNG does everything it can to not get any procs to even reach a 50% chance to HQ. Last action to complete for what you THINK will be an NQ item at 11% ... DING DING DING! HQ. -.-

While that last scenario usually makes most crafters cry at their desk or on their couch, I can personally live with it. Though frustrating. But that 520k loss at 94%?! Yeah. That pisses me off.

Capping weekly poetics on just World of Darkness while trying to get a single drop for your class should not be a thing.

I've done probably 40+ T5/9/13 when they were on lockout, and I haven't seen a single axe drop. Never saw a T5 helmet. Saw one T9/13 chest, which the PLD won. 6 Fending rings in our first 10 T9 kills though. I sure do love RNG.