They should rename WoD "World of Salt"

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Originally Posted by Karen_Cerfrumos

Not everybody is actually aware that there's target-face mechanics in this game because nothing outright tells you this and only select few enemies even have this sorta thing - Melusine, some eyeball type enemies, Angramainyu and Boogey (actually snakes in Silvertear and possibly Qarn HM also do this). Eventually somebody will notice they dodged it but will they make the correct assumption about how it happened? It seems obvious to not look at something called Mortal Gaze but in reality it's not (the other Doom mechanic in this game doesn't have this property so people might as well go with "so I just chase the lit up panel like in Qarn"). Plus DPS might be too focused on their rotation to notice the castbar, that happens too.

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Which would be fine if the content had not been out for weeks. People have had a long long time to learn these mechanics by now and it's not just one or two people not knowing what to do because they are new it's people who have obviously been farming it for weeks and they STILL mess up the simplest things.

The fact everyone else turns around for the attack around them might give them a clue.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

In fairness, that aoe circle is really hard to see, unlike Flare's.

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True, though the bright purple tethers are another implication of danger looming near.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Which would be fine if the content had not been out for weeks. People have had a long long time to learn these mechanics by now and it's not just one or two people not knowing what to do because they are new it's people who have obviously been farming it for weeks and they STILL mess up the simplest things.

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This. At this point there is no reason for wipes to be happening other than people being stupid and ignoring mechanics (not attacking the Daewas, getting Doomed, not killing clouds and letting CoD get stacks, etc.). One of my friends actually had to make a "KILL THE DAEWAS NOW PLEASE" macro because we encountered so many wipes as a result of people ignoring them and just trying to burn the boss.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

It's impossible to get Cerberus to 0% before he eats the second set of DPS.

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Expect it is very possible, it just requires semi-competent dps from all groups.

SE Dev #1: "Team, I have a great idea for expanding raid progression beyond one chain at a time!"

SE Dev #2: "Are you high? Do you see those nitwits failing at the same mechanics on their 200th run of WoD? They pay most of our bills, and they don't even do the one end-game scenario we already have. File your great idea in the cylindrical cabinet for processing."

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

Expect it is very possible, it just requires semi-competent dps from all groups.

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Really? You've killed him before he spits the second Digestive Juices? Wow, the lowest I've seen him there was 20%.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Really? You've killed him before he spits the second Digestive Juices? Wow, the lowest I've seen him there was 20%.

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I've seen it happen once so it is doable. Mainly it requires DPS to not being getting hit by stupid crap (Hound out of Hell, the lightning things, etc) which frees up 5 of the healers to help DPS.

Only had one raid group like this though (literally blitzed all the fights). For 99% of the parties going through WoD it's still wipe after wipe to simple mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Velox

I've seen it happen once so it is doable. Mainly it requires DPS to not being getting hit by stupid crap (Hound out of Hell, the lightning things, etc) which frees up 5 of the healers to help DPS.

Only had one raid group like this though (literally blitzed all the fights). For 99% of the parties going through WoD it's still wipe after wipe to simple mechanics.

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Good to know, thank you. I didn't think it was possible with current gear since I've never seen him anywhere near 0 by that point. Still, I stand by my position above - if you don't want to wipe in WoD, don't let any one person's mistake wipe the raid. Double up on MTs in the ahriman boss, double up on people in the slime puddles against the second boss (who is literally a five headed dragon), double up on OTs for Wolfsbanes during Cerberus, double up on people in meteors against Cloud of Darkness, send all DPS in for Cerberus, and don't wait on chains.

Even if you can down cerby before the second Gastric Juices by holding onto the chains a bit longer, is a few seconds guaranteed of extra combat really worse than a potential wipe?

Don't put yourself in a position where one person screwing up wipes the raid and then blame that one person. It's your fault too if you could have saved the raid via redundancy.

Just had to vent somewhere.

I was just in WoD at 2nd boss(with maintenance going on) and I DC, log back in everything seems fine. Then I see in my chat log that i've been dismissed. boom get kicked from WoD and it's unfair.....fck fgts, ty.

I've been playing as a tank for last several runs of WOD.
My tank setup is mediocre, only ilvl 114. When I see the other 2 tanks seem to have more ilvl to me (with zodiac zeta weapon), I let them pull and become MT.
The problem is, they don't want to. They just stand there and not pulling anything.
Now, when I start pulling them, that's when they try their hardest to pull the agro from me (those 2 tanks).
I just don't know what was on their mind. If you want to MT, then pull them right away.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Good to know, thank you. I didn't think it was possible with current gear since I've never seen him anywhere near 0 by that point. Still, I stand by my position above - if you don't want to wipe in WoD, don't let any one person's mistake wipe the raid. Double up on MTs in the ahriman boss, double up on people in the slime puddles against the second boss (who is literally a five headed dragon), double up on OTs for Wolfsbanes during Cerberus, double up on people in meteors against Cloud of Darkness, send all DPS in for Cerberus, and don't wait on chains.

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Im pretty sure if you preform the full alliance with 3 t13 groups you might be able to kill cerberus without going into his stomach at all.
That being said the reality of DF is that you, indeed, would be better off just chaining him straight away.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Which would be fine if the content had not been out for weeks. People have had a long long time to learn these mechanics by now and it's not just one or two people not knowing what to do because they are new it's people who have obviously been farming it for weeks and they STILL mess up the simplest things.

The fact everyone else turns around for the attack around them might give them a clue.

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You pretend like these sorts of things are just second nature. It doesn't matter if people have been running it for weeks, there are still bound to be new players. People have been running LotA for MONTHS, the bosses get melted in 1/4th the time they used to, and i wipe on that duty more frequently than WoD. People just need to stop acting like everyone should know stuff just because they do. If it bothers you that much, have some macros on hand and be prepared to explain the mechanics.

Mortal Gaze gives no real indication it has a Line of sight mechanic, it's pretty nuanced. The only reason I even thought to check was because of Turn 7. It even has a failsafe to remove the status.

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Originally Posted by AireTamStorm

When people start pointing fingers I always try to explain to everyone in the raid what do to when we face it again. Usually there's mechanic screw ups and calmly explaining it will help more than anything. Often times it helps diffuse a salt storm that's near critical levels. Sure I can get mad too but getting mad at people is just going to lengthen the time I'm spending in a place I only need to run once for carbon/twine/coat that week.

WoD's first boss is great though. I love it. The amount of people that mortal/gazed or Brand of the --- is hilarious. Doesn't usually wipe but it's fun to see who is new and who isn't. I've had pretty good experiences running the weekly on Tuesday nights, right after the resets. Weekends are another story....

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I'll admit Tuesday resets are not immune to issues, but they are way less. We usually preform on Tuesday nights, but queuing solo on the weekend can be okay or really bad.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

You pretend like these sorts of things are just second nature. It doesn't matter if people have been running it for weeks, there are still bound to be new players. People have been running LotA for MONTHS, the bosses get melted in 1/4th the time they used to, and i wipe on that duty more frequently than WoD. People just need to stop acting like everyone should know stuff just because they do. If it bothers you that much, have some macros on hand and be prepared to explain the mechanics.

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It's not new players causing the issues when not a single "Mapping the Realm" achievement shows up at the end of the run.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

You pretend like these sorts of things are just second nature. It doesn't matter if people have been running it for weeks, there are still bound to be new players. People have been running LotA for MONTHS, the bosses get melted in 1/4th the time they used to, and i wipe on that duty more frequently than WoD. People just need to stop acting like everyone should know stuff just because they do. If it bothers you that much, have some macros on hand and be prepared to explain the mechanics.

Mortal Gaze gives no real indication it has a Line of sight mechanic, it's pretty nuanced. The only reason I even thought to check was because of Turn 7. It even has a failsafe to remove the status.

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You really didn't read a single word i said did you. I wasn't talking about new players i was talking about those doing it for weeks who can't even manage simple things. There are a ton of people in chat telling new players to turn away from the boss on Mortal Gaze. There are a ton of people turning for that mechanic giving people a clue. I won't bitch at a new person for screwing it up but it annoys me to hell when people are not new and they still die from doom.

It's simple to learn you act like it's an incredibly complex mechanic. You get it wrong somebody tells you how to do it right then you do it right all the other times. Even the debuff swap isn't difficult on that boss once you understand it. You are only swapping between two debuffs. In other games I've played you can be juggling three debuffs in a much smaller area while also dealing with an instant death mechanic. The add phase on the boss is not difficult a couple of White Mages could stun lock them to death so they can't even attack before they are burned down.

Please explain what part of this boss or even the whole raid is hard.

I would say your point is saying that certain people flips off when the play fails?

Have you ever seen a BLM with a full set of dreadwyrm (seriously full set) and we wiped? Oh boy, the crapstorm that he managed to conjure could wipe out a city, if words can be very strong winds. My advice is if you can't handle it, vote to kick him or just leave, penalty be damned.

That was just an example, by the way. But hey, stereotypes are there for a reason....................

It's funny when a group wipes at the first trash or the first boss. Every time I've seen it, one or two people violently rage at everyone about how terrible they are before leaving, and then after they're gone, we go through the raid just fine, no wipes. Hmm, almost as if their leaving was related......

Heck, last time I did WoD, there was this one healer who whined so loudly after the wipe and insisted his group (which wasn't mine) kick him. Even though someone else had already left from the same group as him so he wouldn't have gotten a penalty. He raged so much when his group wouldn't that we gave up waiting for him to leave and just did the first boss (which we wiped on) one healer down. We cleared it just fine without him, and I convinced his group to wait after the next trash pull to kick him if they were going to do it. Gods, the raaaaage from him toward me during that trash pull...

I've never seen so much salt. And I still don't get it. Why wouldn't he just go when there was no penalty since he wasn't the first to leave? Was he just a newb who didn't know how it worked, or am I wrong in thinking he wouldn't have gotten a penalty?

The people raging in WOD and ST are most certainly insecure individuals who don't have the chops to compete in true endgame content (i.e. FCOB) but still want the opportunity to "show off" to all the supposed noobs and baddies in 24-man instances. I'd bet $10.32 on this.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

The people raging in WOD and ST are most certainly insecure individuals who don't have the chops to compete in true endgame content (i.e. FCOB) but still want the opportunity to "show off" to all the supposed noobs and baddies in 24-man instances. I'd bet $10.32 on this.

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That number is so specific I feel like it's a reference I'm missing. Either way, you're probably right. Most folks I know that actually run FCoB just love playing the game and playing it hard, the challenge of being better is what keeps us going.

Haha... no reference. Just a random number (in the spirit of SE). As bad a rap as raiders tend to get, I really find the vast majority to be pleasant and generally above lording over content such as CT, ST and WOD. Would you find the likes of Kubrick, Scorsese, Von Trier, etc tearing apart some first-year student film? Just my impression.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Oh you're one of THOSE. There is zero reason to hold the chain hostage it helps nothing. Why is a Tank holding chains anyway? Why aren't you pulling adds?

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As MT, I frequently go get the chains. What else are you gonna do while the mob is laying on the floor? I agree with not waiting till he's about to wake up to apply them, though. It's pointless. MT should ideally not be tanking any adds along with the dog because of their knockback. The alliance has two other tanks for that.

I am so over WOD. I have been trying to gear up my DRG and NIN (basically, lowest tier alt jobs after my main of healers and caster secondary). I literally ran it pretty non-stop Thursday night, all day and night Friday, Saturday and Sunday trying to gear up these jobs. In all of those runs (probably around 50) I saw the DRG chest twice. Lost it twice, once to someone who already had the i130 chest while I have the i110. He was then a snarky ass and congratulated me, even though I lost the roll.

Then, last night tanks were actually fighting over who HAD to tank the bosses, because none of them wanted to. Seriously? Now, we have to deal with tanks who queue as tank and don't want to tank anything?

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Then, last night tanks were actually fighting over who HAD to tank the bosses, because none of them wanted to. Seriously? Now, we have to deal with tanks who queue as tank and don't want to tank anything?

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Yeah, this is such a strange trend. It makes zero sense to me. You can't even argue that they're queuing as tanks for quick queues, since last I ran WoD as a tank, the average queue time was 28 minutes (I got in after 25). DPS had under 5 listed. The only reason for someone who actually wants to DPS to queue as a tank instead of as a DPS is because they want tank gear, but why do they want tank gear if they aren't interested in being a tank in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Yeah, this is such a strange trend. It makes zero sense to me. You can't even argue that they're queuing as tanks for quick queues, since last I ran WoD as a tank, the average queue time was 28 minutes (I got in after 25). DPS had under 5 listed. The only reason for someone who actually wants to DPS to queue as a tank instead of as a DPS is because they want tank gear, but why do they want tank gear if they aren't interested in being a tank in the first place?

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The reason I don't want to MT is that I want to ensure that adds get picked up.

It seems like 50% of DF tanks don't know how to do it.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The reason I don't want to MT is that I want to ensure that adds get picked up.

It seems like 50% of DF tanks don't know how to do it.

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It's probably higher than 50%. It feels like a lot of people are just getting gear for Tank because they want all classes at max level with endgame gear for the sake of it. They have no idea how to play the class so they just want to play like a bad DPS and tunnel on the boss forever. In DF a DPS is more likely to peel adds off me than a Tank.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The reason I don't want to MT is that I want to ensure that adds get picked up.

It seems like 50% of DF tanks don't know how to do it.

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While this is fair (and higher than 50%), it seems like ~90% don't know how to MT either. I'd rather MT than sit around for ten minutes while everyone tries to get one of the other tanks to even go into a tanking stance, much less pull the boss.

When MTing the first boss, I find that I can pick up the adds and tank them myself with minimal effort until they're near death and a DPS pulls them off of me (or a healer who overheals with DoTs/AoEs). The other tanks almost never pull them away from me despite me doing only like, a shield lob and two flashes.

It's not really stupidity, it's more peiple being lazy.

"I don't need to bother with that mechanic because someone else will"

This thought process becomes a problem when many of the other people think the same thing :/

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

While this is fair (and higher than 50%), it seems like ~90% don't know how to MT either. I'd rather MT than sit around for ten minutes while everyone tries to get one of the other tanks to even go into a tanking stance, much less pull the boss.

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And then they provoke off of you for whatever reason. If they want to main tank the boss, then they should pull the boss in the first place!

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

It's not really stupidity, it's more peiple being lazy.

"I don't need to bother with that mechanic because someone else will"

This thought process becomes a problem when many of the other people think the same thing :/

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This, a thousand times over. I recently started playing SCH in WoD because I want the shiny crit gear, leaving me with an excellent view of the battlefield and lots of time to run around in Cleric Stance spamming Ruin II when all my DoTs are up (because frankly, the incoming damage in WoD is quite low). It also means that as soon as I see a positional mechanic, I jump on that shit like a dragoon because I'm scared to death that nobody else will bother with it. I just don't understand why you'd do a raid if you're more interested in your DPS than helping the group clear.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The reason I don't want to MT is that I want to ensure that adds get picked up.

It seems like 50% of DF tanks don't know how to do it.

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I don't MT because OT is harder to do, and I like the challenge.
It's easy to MT and sit there building hate on 1 guy (the boss).
It's not as easy to run around and get hate on multiple adds throughout the room while the fight is going on.

OT usually has more mechanics to do as well.

If you want the glory, you OT. If you're not very good and want to walk down easy street... you MT.

That said, I'll always MT if no one moves for it within an uncomfortable amount of seconds... because doing *something* is always better than sitting around and doing nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

That said, I'll always MT if no one moves for it within an uncomfortable amount of seconds... because doing *something* is always better than sitting around and doing nothing at all.

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I totally agree with you and vastly prefer to OT in WoD. ... but this last point you said is why I'm always the MT, every time. The other tanks just sit there. No one says anything or responds to "I'll OT if someone else will MT" or anything of that variety.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

... but this last point you said is why I'm always the MT, every time. The other tanks just sit there. No one says anything or responds to "I'll OT if someone else will MT" or anything of that variety.

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I feel your pain :(
And my ideas for finding decent solutions are sorely lacking.

I just laugh at it and keep going, I guess.

Sometimes I like it when an impatient DPS pulls... I let them deal with the boss for a few seconds and just watch the general chaos for a bit. It makes for a good laugh all caused by impatience.
Then you gotta put on your big-boy pants and clean things up :)

I just feel bad watching 23 people wipe because of impatience when I could do something about it.
But not bad enough to sit there and laugh for 10 seconds first :)

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

Sometimes I like it when an impatient DPS pulls... I let them deal with the boss for a few seconds and just watch the general chaos for a bit. It makes for a good laugh all caused by impatience.
Then you gotta put on your big-boy pants and clean things up :)

I just feel bad watching 23 people wipe because of impatience when I could do something about it.
But not bad enough to sit there and laugh for 10 seconds first :)

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I've totally absolutely never done that. Honest. <_<

I wait until either the DPS dies or hits full health (as in, the healers disagree with my approach) to provoke and tank. Unless another tank does it first! Then I can OT!

If somebody does something dumb I'll let them die. Though sometimes i don't blame somebody for pulling because 3 Tanks just stand there looking at each other because none of them can be bothered to do anything. Though much of the time some idiot had autorun on and started watching crap on youtube then doesn't notice he ran into the boss room.

It's not just with that stuff if somebody keeps eating easily dodgeable attacks to stand there and tunnel vision i won't heal them until they start moving. People soon start looking after themselves when they have low HP.

I think Turn 5 brings out the worst of people. Most WoD runs I've been in people just laugh at the tryhards who are worried their pride might be hurt for wiping once. But in Turn 5, damn, always make sure to have some chips in the oven for my free salt.

The Thread of Salt

Tonight my FC went into World of Darkness with 7 people (6 of us were on voice chat). Our tank won the caster hat off the first boss and then suddenly a vote kick against the tank went up and the six of us in voice chat were like wtf. The only person who wasn't in our free company, one of the healers, swore it wasn't them. We were like I'm pretty sure people in other alliances can't vote to kick someone in another party but the healer was saying how they were on twitch and would prove it wasn't them. But whoever it was, they tried to vote kick the tank again after the second boss, and then vote abandon after the third. It was just weird.

When I do WoD I lack patients...... The moment I see everyone in the zone that axe is flying and I'm playing MT. Now if my healers let me die I quit MT and watch everyone play the stare game. But I agree with a lot of the statements made here. One time a meteor hit the ground and wipe party. Now I was MT in tunnel vision and forgot about meteors it's ok 24 other people playing not like they're getting hit yet wipe happens. Tanks get blamed and all I could do is laugh at it.

When I do WoD I lack patients...... The moment I see everyone in the zone that axe is flying and I'm playing MT. Now if my healers let me die I quit MT and watch everyone play the stare game. But I agree with a lot of the statements made here. One time a meteor hit the ground and wipe party. Now I was MT in tunnel vision and forgot about meteors it's ok 24 other people playing not like they're getting hit yet wipe happens. Tanks get blamed and all I could do is laugh at it.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

Tonight my FC went into World of Darkness with 7 people (6 of us were on voice chat). Our tank won the caster hat off the first boss and then suddenly a vote kick against the tank went up and the six of us in voice chat were like wtf. The only person who wasn't in our free company, one of the healers, swore it wasn't them. We were like I'm pretty sure people in other alliances can't vote to kick someone in another party but the healer was saying how they were on twitch and would prove it wasn't them. But whoever it was, they tried to vote kick the tank again after the second boss, and then vote abandon after the third. It was just weird.

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You can only initiate a vote kick once every several hours, so it's literally impossible for both to have been done by the healer. It sounds like your FCmates were trolling each other.