Goodbye Battle Regimens

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Originally Posted by Alcide

I think this has to be said since everytime they try to fix something they just scrap it >.>

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I must give you that. I too hope they come up with a BR 2.0 and not a copy/paste of the SC system (was fun in FFXI but they can give us something else now in FFXIV)

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

good by BR... Hello <>Weapon SkillChain<> + <>Magic Burst<> . .. . . .

i wish >.<

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Magic Bursting is already in the game WS >> WS >> Magic Burst. It just doesn't say "Magic Burst!" in the log but it is indeed there.

I hope they bring back visual onscreen effects like the Light and Dark skillchains in XI, Scission, Liquefaction, etc. Those looked cool and we all new when they successfully landed. Skillchains FTW!

Well BR not that good, having to wait until everyone sets their ws ..not fun.
Apart from that, i hope when they come back they dont need to be set up , and making them self SC would be great, ffxi SC was simple and great, things dont need to be complex to be great.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

Dev 1133: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...attle-Regimens

We've had a long run, but now we can say goodbye to your tactical prowess. For a few months we can just whack away at mobs without skill ^^ We had lots of fun, hope to see you improved and looking healthier when you return anew.

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Usually you're informative Azu.. but yeah, this was covered in the timeline we already received. They're taking it down for the next 1-2 patches so they can fix the battle system and implement jobs. It'll return healthy, and hopefully more responsive and rewarding than it was before.

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Originally Posted by TidBones

Well BR not that good, having to wait until everyone sets their ws ..not fun.
Apart from that, i hope when they come back they dont need to be set up , and making them self SC would be great, ffxi SC was simple and great, things dont need to be complex to be great.

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Why don't you simply stop playing/BR'ing with people who suck at queuing then? This was a player problem, not a problem with the system.

BR was not overly complex, the new system I think needs to be more complex/flexible with visible effects and more of an impact (both through the order of certain abilities, maybe actual "chain effects" from like the different class specific or job specific 2k+ TP Weapon Skills). It needs to have specific uses that make it mandatory, or near enough to it for high end party play.

BR better not be gone too long, DD'ing without it is maybe 1/10th as exciting. Purely rotational combat as found in most MMO's "endgame" is for monkeys.

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Why don't you simply stop playing/BR'ing with people who suck at queuing then? This was a player problem, not a problem with the system.

BR was not overly complex, the new system I think needs to be more complex/flexible with visible effects and more of an impact (both through the order of certain abilities, maybe actual "chain effects" from like the different class specific or job specific 2k+ TP Weapon Skills). It needs to have specific uses that make it mandatory, or near enough to it for high end party play.

BR better not be gone too long, DD'ing without it is maybe 1/10th as exciting. Purely rotational combat as found in most MMO's "endgame" is for monkeys.

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right... i still think BR sucks, and not having to press a key to make a skillchain is the best way. My opinion.

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Originally Posted by TidBones

right... i still think BR sucks, and not having to press a key to make a skillchain is the best way. My opinion.

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lol there are still people who will fight to the death that smashing the 1 key is way better, so im not suprised people enjoy more clicking to do a simple combo thing. Best idea is to make you click "are you sure you want to start a BR?" and later "are you sure you want to execute this BR?"....MORE CLICKZ MEANS MOAR SKILLZ!

seriously if you remove the initiate and execute part of BRs...its pretty much a skill chain but it has debuffs over Magic Bursts....

I won't miss you BRs.


I know how to do BRs and I absolutely hate the current implementation. In a real time battle system the longer you're in BR queue the less dps you're doing to a point where if you don't do them quick enough it's better to not do them at all.


The one thing that needs to change is to allow you to take actions while in BR queue. Future NMs will be more intense requiring quicker reaction times and the way the current BR system is most people would just stop using them.


I expect SE to make this change when BRs return in a future patch.

I loved BR.... we all know I loved BR's.... I've had threads devoted to BR's...
And I am sad to see them go...
With that being said.. Skill chains would be incredible... however...

FFXIV as it is now, can not, will not, should not WONT get skill chains.... wont happen....
Skill chains CANNOT be part of a premeditated attack scheme....
Nothing that involves timing or exact positioning can happen with any consistency in FFXIV's battle system
Why?
Because you execute a weaponskill, a second later you see the MOBs HP go down, 2 seconds later you see yourself do the weapon skill and 4 seconds after that, everyone else sees your weaponskill
Try timing that? Not possible... Not with Crsytal tools current networking API....
You could luck into some Skillchains and even magic bursts.... But as a well thought out battle plan? forget it

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I loved BR.... we all know I loved BR's.... I've had threads devoted to BR's...
And I am sad to see them go...
With that being said.. Skill chains would be incredible... however...

FFXIV as it is now, can not, will not, should not WONT get skill chains.... wont happen....
Skill chains CANNOT be part of a premeditated attack scheme....
Nothing that involves timing or exact positioning can happen with any consistency in FFXIV's battle system
Why?
Because you execute a weaponskill, a second later you see the MOBs HP go down, 2 seconds later you see yourself do the weapon skill and 4 seconds after that, everyone else sees your weaponskill
Try timing that? Not possible... Not with Crsytal tools current networking API....
You could luck into some Skillchains and even magic bursts.... But as a well thought out battle plan? forget it

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well that problems effects go much deeper then BR...everything is effected because they have to to fix their crappy coding. That would be one huge step if they could make the game feel like everything worked when you clicked it, not sure why a year later and its still not that great, not sure what they are waiting on...but eh...

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

well that problems effects go much deeper then BR...everything is effected because they have to to fix their crappy coding. That would be one huge step if they could make the game feel like everything worked when you clicked it, not sure why a year later and its still not that great, not sure what they are waiting on...but eh...

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I don't know how long things really take though... I have a little programming experience but I've never developed a major title or even an engine... But you're right... a lot of the game is affected by this...

I think battle regimens were vastly easier to execute and understand than skillchains in FFXI.

The two main things that make them superior are that they're in a separate mode, and that there's a list showing what will execute. The separate mode means you're not telling the tank or other members not involved to hold off so that it can be performed - they can do whatever they want because they're outside the BR system. The list means you don't have to write a bunch of macros and try and time things perfectly with other players; good timing makes things smoother, but you aren't relying on people to notice things, exchange TP information, etc. because you can just see what's in the list on your screen. The problems of FFXI-style SCs would be made many times worse by the battle speed in XIV too.

One suggestion I have for making it better, though, would be to sort of combine both systems. Maybe instead of entering BR mode, you could get a list of recently used spells and TP attacks from everyone in the party. Then if you have something that can create an effect with it, you pick theirs from the list, then execute yours. That would retain the on-screen information and negate interference from other party members just like BR, but allow you to execute things on the fly as well as not keeping you "stuck" in the BR queue waiting on other players.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

I think battle regimens were vastly easier to execute and understand than skillchains in FFXI.

The two main things that make them superior are that they're in a separate mode, and that there's a list showing what will execute. The separate mode means you're not telling the tank or other members not involved to hold off so that it can be performed - they can do whatever they want because they're outside the BR system. The list means you don't have to write a bunch of macros and try and time things perfectly with other players; good timing makes things smoother, but you aren't relying on people to notice things, exchange TP information, etc. because you can just see what's in the list on your screen. The problems of FFXI-style SCs would be made many times worse by the battle speed in XIV too.

One suggestion I have for making it better, though, would be to sort of combine both systems. Maybe instead of entering BR mode, you could get a list of recently used spells and TP attacks from everyone in the party. Then if you have something that can create an effect with it, you pick theirs from the list, then execute yours. That would retain the on-screen information and negate interference from other party members just like BR, but allow you to execute things on the fly as well as not keeping you "stuck" in the BR queue waiting on other players.

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wait...what? How is executing a SC harder? how was doing WS to WS hard to figure out or do? The only thing that was hard to understand was knowing which WS combos did what, which is still present in this game. Other then that it took coordination...which you need just as much of here.

Its pretty clear that BRs are much more confusing and take longer to use, ive seen plenty of people who say they dont get it or don't even know its there. Not only where SCs quicker (this being quicker paced then FFXI) i just dont see too many issues.

People have to say what SC or BR they are doing before the do it, so that happens in both, the only real difference is that you cant get interupted, but if your group had half a brain and knew they were doing a SC (especially when it was back when people actually used them w/ MB) it didnt happen often. As for calling out TP, well it can happen here, unless all you ever did was attack to attack. If it had to do w/ WSs then you still had to deal with TP (though it is faster here) and now you have to deal with longer cooldowns...so if anything its just as bad.

the arguments denying that BR is a clunky system are no different than the ones arguing that the party search function is streamlined and perfectly functional, yet both are very clunky and pale in comparison to their potentials.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

the arguments denying that BR is a clunky system are no different than the ones arguing that the party search function is streamlined and perfectly functional, yet both are very clunky and pale in comparison to their potentials.

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No sorry, but no one argues that the party search function is easy to use. You are trying to make people who are able to use BR's out to be delusional or something.

BR's are at the very least as simple as Skill Chains were:

TP skills>TP skill>Magic burst and there you have it an XI styled skill chain.

What's more entering a mode is much easier than timing, both when accounting for lag and slow people (the only problem with queuing BR's quickly currently). It should take no longer really than 2-4 seconds for a full party to execute a battle regimen, but of course it is slower if some are slow. The difference here between XI and XIV (both systems had a steep "learning curve") is that you don't fail a BR if you have to wait like you would a skill chain.

Also a coordinated BR is capable of being much quicker than a skill chain because it is instant, whereas a skill chain required a short delay between the actions. So that argument again falls on its face, the only thing that hinders a battle regimen are players holding the rest of the group up. In a skill chain they would simply fail the skill chain and you would have nothing. Here it is simpler and more forgiving, but people don't realize this so they blame the system instead of the players.

I'm all for them improving the battle regimen system, but it is neither complicated, convoluted, or useless in its current incarnation.

Whats Battle Regimens?

Goodbye Battle Regimens ...... and good riddence

Never liked it, found it very boring and vague.

Realy enjoyed skill chains on FF11, and i quit that game 5 odd years ago and i still remember how fun they were.

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Originally Posted by Kyra

Goodbye Battle Regimens ...... and good riddence

Never liked it, found it very boring and vague.

Realy enjoyed skill chains on FF11, and i quit that game 5 odd years ago and i still remember how fun they were.

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That was thought provoking and deep... thank you

Perhaps it is used a lot at endgame, but I've only seen BR used in parties I've been in purely for fun. And that just goes to show how unintuitive it is. With the skillchain, it had use at any level, and could even be done through a pure lucky fluke. With how BR functions now, and with how easy mobs are to deal with, it's simply more trouble than it is worth to coordinate everything.

The "fix" could be something as simple as when someone TPs, there is a Battle Regiment buffer period to follow up with another WS. The main problem, as with pretty much every glaring issue in this game, is the developers apparently loathe the idea of taking the good ideas implemented in FFXI, and incorporating them into their new MMO.