Your opinions on the easiest classes?

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

What do you feel is the easiest class to maximize your DPS on in raid scenarios?

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Definitely Bard.
- No positional requirements
- Can dos on the move from melee/ranged
- Rotation is pretty simple just straight shot, venomous bite, wind bite/ use cool downs/bloodletter as they pop.
- Cast a song every now and then for shits and gigz.

I would say its like this from easiest to hardest for maximizing DPS.

BRD > SMN > Nin > DRG > MNK=BLM

Hardest job = your main
Easiest job = the one you least understand.

E.g: poster above me.

P.S: Bard is easy, and Black Mage is laughably easy too.

I feel the easiest dps class I have to play is the Bard. The easiest melee dps class to play for me is ninja. I prefer to Tank as Warrior. I prefer to heal as White Mage, though as a scholar in low level duties the summon can handle most all the healing and you can just spread your dots...

For lazy class lead its got to be Bard. I think several other classes get a better return on the player skill then Bard does. Lower skill ceiling for Bard, skill floor is same for everyone, dead, and it is easier to not die on a Ranged dps that can move while casting most things...

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

Easiest job = the one you least understand.

and Black Mage is laughably easy too.

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I guess black mage is laughably easy when you only consider fights that let you sit at one spot and turret for 100% of the fight.

Easy to pick up? Bard by far. You can mash buttons and still pull reasonable dps. A newbie going into BLM runs the risk of ooming the first couple of times, and people don't grasp comboing mechanics immediately.

Playing effectively? I'd have to say PLD, BRD and BLM are pretty damn close together.

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Originally Posted by siverstorm

I guess black mage is laughably easy when you only consider fights that let you sit at one spot and turret for 100% of the fight.

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Fcob all have very easy ways of optimizing your dps with minimal movement on Black Mage. Second coil was harder, imo, but only if you did everything in a traditional sense (except turn 8). All other fights are pretty damn easy and/or irrelevant in discussion.

I have to say, that if BLMs were laughably easy, there would be a larger amount of good BLMs in general. Most BLMs I've come across in all of my Duty Finder/party finder groups were fetid lol.
BLMs rotation is easy. MAXIMIZING it isn't so much. Maximizing each class to me requires a bit of dedication, and such, won't technically be "easy", but I hoped you guys would know that lol

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

Fcob all have very easy ways of optimizing your dps with minimal movement on Black Mage. Second coil was harder, imo, but only if you did everything in a traditional sense (except turn 8). All other fights are pretty damn easy and/or irrelevant in discussion.

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I'll repeat myself. The day you'll be able to laugh and cast full time while dealing with earth shakers and you proof it with a video, I,ll believe you. By far, Monk is the easiest to me. Then again, to me. Biggest factor on what's easy to play is the player behind the keyboard.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'll repeat myself. The day you'll be able to laugh and cast full time while dealing with earth shakers and you proof it with a video, I,ll believe you. By far, Monk is the easiest to me. Then again, to me. Biggest factor on what's easy to play is the player behind the keyboard.

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I do not play blm myself but cant you cast full time during earth shakers if you save one firestarter proc before earth shakers, then use swiftcast fire, then use another firestarter proc if you get lucky proc. You probably do not even need try cast between earth shakers.

Tanks have the easiest role, easiest classes I would say probably between BRD and BLM.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I do not play blm myself but cant you cast full time during earth shakers if you save one firestarter proc before earth shakers, then use swiftcast fire, then use another firestarter proc if you get lucky proc. You probably do not even need try cast between earth shakers.

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If swiftcast is up, yes. However, that might not be the case if you end up using it during your raging strikes rotation(swiftcast flare+covert) or if you if you get the small mega flare circle during the last phase and have no proc up.

On the first phase, the PLD should always be casting [cover] on the BLM anyway since melees have a way to keep up their rotation during ES.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'll repeat myself. The day you'll be able to laugh and cast full time while dealing with earth shakers and you proof it with a video, I,ll believe you. By far, Monk is the easiest to me. Then again, to me. Biggest factor on what's easy to play is the player behind the keyboard.

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Stand where you need to stand before Earthshaker, buffer a fire from there. If someone else gets targeted, A.M to a healer. Use each fire starter to stagger yourself back to your earth shaker position and you'll never have to move EXCEPT for Megaflare. Btw, all other jobs except SMN and BRD lose uptime when targeted by Earth Shaker, including monk (except the first phase, but that's not exclusive to them). I still don't see what you're complaining about, you're far more easier to optimize than you think.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

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AM is still a DPS loss unless its used between GCD.

Who ever said saving firestarter for mechanics was a dps gain? This is a dps lost to hold DPS. To be able to safely cast in between earth shakers, you need Selene buff and roughly 670 spell speed which is damn too high lol.


Monks get cover, they ignore mechanics. Good monks will do GCD > move away to place poddle > GCD > move away to place poddle > GCD > move away to place puddle. You might have lost 1 auto-attack, nothing compared to 2 Fire casts. Handling a mechanic based on luck and procs is not safe. I handle most of it but results are this, if I don't get a proc on the fire cast I do when I get marker and I don't have swiftcast, it's 5 seconds of scathe.

The whole "Save your procs for this mechanic!" is the same as telling anyone with Blood for Blood "Don't use it because you might get earth shakers!" This is a stupid logic.

Paladin can cover Black Mage but usually they cover melees as single target melee dps is usually higher than single target blm dps. I avoid most downtime now but I usually clip my Dragoon once for it which is whatever lol.

You keep bringing up Cover like it's a Monk ability. Stop it. Cover is generally only used in the FIRST phase, once. That is the only time. Guess what our Paladin does if the monk doesn't get targeted on the 2nd Earth Shaker? We give it to someone else.

Also, where did I say save your procs? I said use your procs as mobility for after a Megaflare, so you can walk your way slowly to your position. A.M is a very minimal dps loss, it's much better to be where the Earth Shaker is and have to fly back to your healer (if you're not targeted) vs. sprinting over.

And since we're nitpicking, you don't lose 1 auto attack if you're placing Earth Shakers as Monk... lol. That's a lot of dps loss regardless.

All classes in this game are easy. But take considerable effort to maximize and master.

In my opinion, from easiest to hardest, it is: Black Mage > Monk > Dragoon > Bard > Summoner > Ninja.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

You keep bringing up Cover like it's a Monk ability. Stop it. Cover is generally only used in the FIRST phase, once. That is the only time. Guess what our Paladin does if the monk doesn't get targeted on the 2nd Earth Shaker? We give it to someone else.

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You should watch my stream when I do T13 and tell me if my Monk/Dragoon lose any attacks while she skillfully place the earthshakers while beating Bahamut. You can place them far and lose your attacks or you place the poddles near while keeping your flank. Why wouldn't you cover the monk as a Paladin when the monk gets earth shaker? It's a dps gain lol. If you want to speak about Cover, it is also used in last phase when warrior holmgang.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Snip.

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Melees can do this during ES on the first phase. [Cover] is better used on the BLM on phase 1.

http://a.pomf.se/kypsca.mp4

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

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Yes i think the whole reason why blood for blood have the damage penalty is that you have 2 deal with mechanic when it is worth 2 use and when it is not worth use. Not matter how good dps you do but i think you are bad player if you wipe your group for sake doing more dps because you wanna see shiny numbers in your parse. I just watch your t13 video and even you are not casting fire between earth shakers or i have not seen anybody else do that. I think it is not even worth take that risk and make party wipe only cause of your selfish reasons.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Yes i think the whole reason why blood for blood have the damage penalty is that you have 2 deal with mechanic when it is worth 2 use and when it is not worth use. Not matter how good dps you do but i think you are bad player if you wipe your group for sake doing more dps because you wanna see shiny numbers in your parse. I just watch your t13 video and even you are not casting fire between earth shakers or i have not seen anybody else do that. I think it is not even worth take that risk and make party wipe only cause of your selfish reasons.

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I have never wiped my raid a single time while pushing higher numbers.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I just watch your t13 video and even you are not casting fire between earth shakers

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Have a go at doing it yourself first and then make comments about it xD

BLM is very easy to begin with, has a easy rotation, but it's probably one of the harder classes to push good damage with for end game content. Though I think there is a fair bit of skill involved for any class to push decent damage.

Bard is probably the easiest to play and do ok'ish damage on.

What is the point of this? What are you trying to achieve or understand by gathering these opinions?

Players will have opinions based on their experience with their own classes and others they have encountered, but that is all it will amount to, an opinion that is subject to their circumstance. Building any sort of consensus based on that is pointless because you don't have a common basis for comparison.

I'd rather people just pick up and play the classes they like and learn how to play them well, instead of trying to one-up each other all the time. You have a wide variety to choose from with more on the way. If there was a set-in-stone answer as to a class that was the easiest to play or even "optimise DPS on in a raid scenario", everyone will be playing that class already and you wouldn't have to ask this question.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Yes i think the whole reason why blood for blood have the damage penalty is that you have 2 deal with mechanic when it is worth 2 use and when it is not worth use. Not matter how good dps you do but i think you are bad player if you wipe your group for sake doing more dps because you wanna see shiny numbers in your parse. I just watch your t13 video and even you are not casting fire between earth shakers or i have not seen anybody else do that. I think it is not even worth take that risk and make party wipe only cause of your selfish reasons.

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What's wrong with fire + ES? Everytime I have swiftcast I cast fire during ES D:
Utilize sprint and manawall well (u can weave your fire with manawall and u can sprint when waiting the gcd for fire I after using firestarter proc), no need to panic when ES comes ;)
There's always a way to dish out good DPS without wiping your party, also, DPS won't be that shiny if u die from ES

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I handle most of it but results are this, if I don't get a proc on the fire cast I do when I get marker and I don't have swiftcast, it's 5 seconds of scathe.

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How abaut if if you cast blizzard 3 between first and second eath shaker that is 140 potency more than scathe and then cast fire 3 between second and third earth shaker. If you change your element you should have only 1.5 sec cast time or something plus you will gain some mana back and do not need spam scathe that is huge dps loss?

I'd say scholar is the easiest to perform "averagely" (~200DPS/FCoB turn) on. Use shields/debuffs/aetherflow wisely, mash embrace on chosen targets, apply dots and {/doze}.

For DPS classes specifically, SMN I guess. Still only talking about skill floors though, not ceilings.

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Originally Posted by vQsv

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Quell your tongue. It says very clearly in the title that I was looking for OPINIONs. These opinions help me understand the general consensus of classes without having to touch them. I'd rather you not comment at all if you're not going to follow the OP.

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Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

People consistantly saying that BLM is easy probably do 350 dps on easy dungeons with full augmented poetics and a broken rotation. I call them the "thunder III blms".

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So BLMs that use thunder III have no concept of the class?
Thunder III is staple to my rote as I've built my blm on spell speed and require the timing of T3 to maximize my Fire uptime.
We're on the same server so feel free to find me if you need to see real T3 rote dmg in action.

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Originally Posted by Tanthalus

So BLMs that use thunder III have no concept of the class?
Thunder III is staple to my rote as I've built my blm on spell speed and require the timing of T3 to maximize my Fire uptime.
We're on the same server so feel free to find me if you need to see real T3 rote dmg in action.

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Using T3 during mid roation, is probably a DPS loss, as I'd expect you to only be able to get off 4 F1 after?

If using T3 on the pull, then there is a lot of debate on the "best opener".

Regardless of the above, it's still very possible for a decent BLM to pull of nice damage, even if the rotation is not "optimal". The main thing for a BLM is not so much the roation used, but how you move/dodge.

Scarebearz has it right.... you can min/max all you want to eke out another .00000003 dps, but it's all for not if you're the king of cancellations.

So, just trying to get an understanding of the thread. Are we looking for the easiest jobs to just pick up and do well on? Or the easiest jobs to truly optimize? Cause I feel like these both have different answers. Blm is a good example. It's a very easy job to just pick up and learn to do high numbers with very quickly, but really learning to master it is another thing entirely. To a lesser extent, I feel like brd falls in this category too. Brd is widely known as the lazy man's job. And god knows there are probably more brds out there than anything. But how many have you met that really know how to play their job to max efficiency/dps? I'd say, based on my own observations, somewhere around 5%. Then there's like, drg, which, and I love the job, so it pains me to say this, is really easy to learn, and optimize. The only real tricks to it are mastering when not to use your jumps, and reading the mob to get your positionals every time.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

How abaut if if you cast blizzard 3 between first and second eath shaker that is 140 potency more than scathe and then cast fire 3 between second and third earth shaker. If you change your element you should have only 1.5 sec cast time or something plus you will gain some mana back and do not need spam scathe that is huge dps loss?

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Only if I don't have enought mana for a Fire 1. Using B3 leads to Thunder 1 and I don't want to clip a 12 sec dot. That's a debate I'm gonna open in two weeks. I've died in T13 progression because I was casting Fire 1 in between earth shakers. I think I still try by instinct. The first earth shaker, I'll never have swift up since I use it on my opener. Second earth shaker I,m usually fine. When I have marker, I get 2 Fire I cast going on usually. I also have swiftcast. This sounds easy but I do use sprint in off-gcd and manawall also while I need to move away from my dragoon flank spot or she'll be upset.


Someone mention he saw my T13 video. Since I've done those videos, I get a lot of pm saying how it helped their BLM improve their DPS. If the job was that easy, my videos would be a waste of time and it does not seem to be the case. BLM looks easy. In reality, it's opinion based. I spent a lot of hours to maximize my BLM to the point my job is instinct base.

I just find Monk the easiest because it's position forgiving and you can't screw your rotation like Dragoons. Ever felt the pain when you're about to do your Chaos Thrust combo and you accidentally press Full Thrust? That hurts your feelings :< This does not happen to monks, they can't use Bootshine when they have to choose between Demolish or Snap Punch. I also find it easy with Summoner when I was to move for mechanics and I can just spam Ruin II while slowly ooming to my tears.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

Scarebearz has it right.... you can min/max all you want to eke out another .00000003 dps, but it's all for not if you're the king of cancellations.

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Well that's where proper sliding comes in. And I've been doing that since 2.0 so I'm actually surprised people are talking about it now.
And my rotation works well because of my stat allocation and what I knew I needed to max my numbers. Thunder III works in to save my mana since I don't preemie cast fire that way. One other thing that throws all the best laid plans to waste. He who procs most wins :P

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Originally Posted by Tanthalus

And my rotation works well because of my stat allocation and what I knew I needed to max my numbers.

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Does this mean you have a number of attributions point into piety in order to use T3 while retaining 5 x F1?

BLM is easy as hell. A ton easier than BRD, it's my new go-to class when I feel like being lazy but still dish out high DPS.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Tanks have the easiest role, easiest classes I would say probably between BRD and BLM.

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Clearly someone doesn't tank.

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I find healing as WHM much easier than SCH. Like some said before, maximizing SCH performance is complicated. Pet management, stack management, DPS potential, Warding pre-casting for mechanics, placing shadowflares/sacred prisms, pet management.

SMN next.. For me the struggle with controlling pets is real

I feel like it's an easier question to answer if you think of it as which class is easier to screw up

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Melees can do this during ES on the first phase. [Cover] is better used on the BLM on phase 1.

http://a.pomf.se/kypsca.mp4

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Question for whoever uses this method. I'm new to t13 and wondering how you handle megaflare with the poo where it is? I can maintain GL3 by dropping poo in the corner and shoulder tackling back in. Then I have that space available to move out of the flare circle if I don't have to stack. I feel like I could be blocking myself in or out if I drop the poo along the flank like that. Any insight?

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Does this mean you have a number of attributions point into piety in order to use T3 while retaining 5 x F1?

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No it means I cast my T3 in my umbral downtime. Casting off too early leaves my mana at a loss and the t3 provides just enough time for a full allocation to happen. That said I'm not (and I've seen most top tier blms aren't either) so rigid with a set cast system. I avoid dmg above dealing it out and I still end up on top, that said I've never had to go search the internet to optimize my dps. I learned the class and subsequently learned where my ins and outs are depending on the fight.

I think BLM and BRD are the easiest classes by far. As a BRD you just need to be on safe positions, same as BLM. I will say BLM is a little harder because he is a caster and loses tons of dps due to mechanics, BRD needs only to move while do skills.