Prices are To hight (in relative terms)

We also have to think about the long term goal of the Gold Saucer itself.

Yoshi-P was very adamant about the fact that they would continue to add new attractions to the Saucer, as well as adding more NPCs to challenge on TT and more cards to obtain.

So right now, yes, 1 million MGP is absolutely not a realistic goal given how small the payouts are on everything except the Cactpots. It will take way too long to grind out the MGP necessary to get it.

But in the future or after Heavensward comes out? No idea. Rewards might start getting way better as people get better and more familiar with the minigames and new stuff is added. I have a feeling the long grind is there in order to get people to keep playing in the Gold Saucer until the expansion. This is our holdover content.

However, I do think that the Cloud Strife card needs to have its cost reduced by a lot. There's no reason it should be a 1 million MGP reward unless all four values on it are magically "A".

When I saw the prices and the amount of time it would take I lost all interest.

This is coming from someone who did mythic, relic grind in ffxi and played lineage 2. :/

Golden Sauce has the same objective of the Relic questline: to be a timesink. And if you want to a player spend a lot of hours doing the same thing, you need a "carrot" approach

As the OP said: "Fenrir (1 million) this is the mount everyone wants". This is the "carrot". ;)

So, I don't see SE lowering the prices because this is a game design decision.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

We also have to think about the long term goal of the Gold Saucer itself.

Yoshi-P was very adamant about the fact that they would continue to add new attractions to the Saucer, as well as adding more NPCs to challenge on TT and more cards to obtain.

So right now, yes, 1 million MGP is absolutely not a realistic goal given how small the payouts are on everything except the Cactpots. It will take way too long to grind out the MGP necessary to get it.

But in the future or after Heavensward comes out? No idea. Rewards might start getting way better as people get better and more familiar with the minigames and new stuff is added. I have a feeling the long grind is there in order to get people to keep playing in the Gold Saucer until the expansion. This is our holdover content.


However, I do think that the Cloud Strife card needs to have its cost reduced by a lot. There's no reason it should be a 1 million MGP reward unless all four values on it are magically "A".

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Great response, I feel the same. People are yelling "This is year of grinding". Assuming MGP rewards will be identical 1, 3, 6, or 12 months from now. Most likely we will see MGP rapidly change in coming months. With more and more ways to earn it.

The top tier prize prices are pretty crazy (I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be lowered - I don't mind them being so high, but it really is quite high), but not all of the prices are crazy. I'm happily wearing a 3,000 MGP glamour item, and the pricetag on the triad card packs are pretty spot-on. I don't like that they have the low-level individual cards for sale because they're super easy to get from playing the right NPCs (Moogle and Chocobo in particular, but all of the cards except Nanamo and Cloud are obtainable as win rewards), but a new player may not realize that and waste the MGP on them.

I just wish you were less likely to get a card from a card pack if you already have it... there are some rare cards from the Gold packs which appear to have a lower chance of dropping from the packs and can only be obtained from the gold packs. But, the rest of the cards from the gold packs are easily obtainable in other ways... Three gold packs so far, and only dupes of cards I had already won from NPCs :( (I really want that Zidane card!)

This thread assumes that the highest value items (Fenrir, Cloud) were intended to be a grind. It seems far more likely from the pricing that at this point in time they were intended to be purchased by Jumbo Cacpot winners only. You have a 1 in 10,000 chance of winning the Jumbo, so 1 in 200 characters are likely to win in the next year. That doesn't seem so bad for rare items and makes the Jumbo genuinely exciting. We of course also have the currently unknown TT tournaments and any future changes to prizes.

The real complaint seems to be that some people wanted to grind for Fenrir and are disappointed they can't. That doesn't make it bad, just different.

Your math is off. By a zero.

Example:

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

Consecutive wins to get fenrir 400,000 (1 million / 25 sticking to the after win bonus)

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1 million divided by 25 isn't 400,000. It's 40,000.

You seem to make the same error through the rest of your math too.

So to redo your math, let's say that you have someone intentionally losing to you in TT to help you farm, 25 MGP per match. If they're intentionally losing, you can work out where to place cards every match for you to win, so no thinking on turns, just click and drag. Let's estimate 3 seconds per turn and 3 seconds to start matches. 30 seconds per match works out to just under 14 days non-stop, 28 days in 12-hour periods.

Again, however, this is only playing cards against another player who's intentionally losing to you. It's ignoring any other potential gains like cactpot or GATEs, and is obviously going to take longer than if you could beat NPCs who give you far more MGP per win.

First of all we don't know what the earning potential of Chocobo Racing at higher tiers are like. 1st place in R80 nets you 117 MGP which takes me an average of 2.5mins (+loading). How will R500 scale? No one knows.

Not EVERYONE is gunning for that Fenrir mount, I have little interest in it myself. But because MGP is worth nothing outside of the Gold Saucer, the place needs these costly rewards so players will take time to acquire it. If you could earn 1mil MGP in 1 week, possibly get all items in 2weeks, why would you ever set foot back into Gold Saucer after that? Gold Saucer would really be a ghost town after a single month then with only NPCs to entertain you. No one buying Cactpots, no one doing GATE events, you'll be racing your Chocobo with silent NPCs. Is that how you guys want it?

The problem with your post is that you are assuming that the Fenrir mount is supposed to be "achievable". Its obviously not to be achievable. Its for those that luck out and win the lottery. I doubt there will ever be more than a few per server... at least for a long time. Its OK for the game to have a FEW super rare items that most players won't ever get. Its not like that mount is required for game progression.

Your math is waaaay off.

12 wins against King Elmer gets you 1,044 MGP. 12 x 100 = 1,200 wins to get 100,000 MGP. You'll actually end with a little more MGP than that since 1,044 is not 1,000 even. 1,200 wins x 10 again = 12,000 wins. 12,000 wins to get 1 million, and it will actually be a little less than 12,000 wins since the MGP count was not dead even and gave 44 more than 1,000. You can do 3-4 TT games in 2 minutes, not same amount of time as choco racing as you suggested, assuming you have a solid strategy against King Elmer that myself and many people have which eliminates all thinking since you already know where to place card in response to his placement.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Your math is off. By a zero.

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hmm so it is thank you for pointing this out i am correcting it now.

the math is fixed,

this dose significantly fix it (this is the last time i do math after not sleeping for a few days xD)

but still i find the price to be more of a deterrence then a temptation with the amount we gain
a lot of people in Balmung's gold saucer, openly voice there displeasure over shout, it is easy to see people who are unamused or put off by the high prices, i asked openly in shout what if it was 500k and most seemed to agree with the halved price

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Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

Your math is waaaay off.

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i have fixed it

Honestly I don't understand the logic behind those prices.

They are acting as a deterrent from spending points in chocobo race items and the quality of the said content doesn't justify the long grind. They are maybe planning to sell a MGP boost in the mog station, eventually.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

You can earn more MGP by playing other players than you can against NPCs. There is no match fee against players.

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That bonus only applies to the first 5 matches of the day. Even if you lose the match counts.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Honestly I don't understand the logic behind those prices.

They are acting as a deterrent from spending points in chocobo race items and the quality of the said content doesn't justify the long grind. They are maybe planning to sell a MGP boost in the mog station, eventually.

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FC bonus action?

Fenrir is meant to be the swag of the million MGP lottery winners. It wouldn't be that special if it was easy to get.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

Fenrir is meant to be the swag of the million MGP lottery winners. It wouldn't be that special if it was easy to get.

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if this was the case he would of been the grand prize instead of a ring :P

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Originally Posted by Coldheart

Golden Sauce has the same objective of the Relic questline: to be a timesink. And if you want to a player spend a lot of hours doing the same thing, you need a "carrot" approach

As the OP said: "Fenrir (1 million) this is the mount everyone wants". This is the "carrot". ;)

So, I don't see SE lowering the prices because this is a game design decision.

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Carrots dont work if they are so far ahead you can't actually see them dangling in front of you anymore.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

chocobo racing
cost to play = 10
1st up to 90 (it goes down by 10 down to 8th which is less then 10) (Higher ranks may go up in prize need conformation)
1st place wins to fenrir = up to 14,000

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But which race is that? There are a bunch of different chocobo races. We're offered three different races we can enter from the start, but it says we'll be eligible for more as we rank up, so I'm not even sure how many races there are total. (I've only done the Maiden race so far, just to see how it works.)

I do think most of the prices are quite high. I mean 8,000 just to get the new hairstyle? 200,000 to get the Setzer/bunny costume?

I have herd from someone who won in the RS-80 chocobo racees the reward dose increase able it by a small amount.

Won a few R100 races, reward for 1st place is 129 MGP

whats the highest R, do we know?

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

i did take the Jumbo Jackpot into consideration, 1 person is allegeable to win the grand prize each week, which is fine and dandy, they can get everything there hearts wishes, but the prizes for 2nd 3rd ect, do not scratch close to make these one million items even plausible.

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Isn't that similar to how the actual lottery works? Weekly schpeel aside I mean.

I think a lot of folks are sore about the price of Fenrir because we were shown the picture of the mount without anything to damper our excitement. Had they said, "Fenrir will be really hard to earn, and only a few will likely ever acquire him", the hype would not have been as..... it would have been toned down.

Instead, we get a picture of him with no indication that acquisition will be different than any previous mounts, leaving our hype and enthusiasm to run wild.

But, to be entirely honest I am not too upset by Fenrir. I do hope that the first several winners of the jumbo cacpot are cool people and not dicks, or they will only enflame the world they are on by constant bragging and generally being a sore winner.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

[Snip]
TL: DR
Currently if you are FLAWLESS with triple triad and do not take ANY brakes, you will have your fenrir mount in 291 days if you try to include lets say 6 hours sleep per day that almost doubles to 2 years.

please re think the prices of your high reward items.


a good quote:
{i was pointed out i did a mis calculation on my math, this quote is still however good.}

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You forgot to forget your TL: DR math but I just wanted to point out that by correcting your math you already got more than you wanted o.o

You wanted it to take half the time you expected it to, when in fact it'll take a tenth of the time. Be happy ^_^

The best solution would be for SE to cut on fenrir cost AND add a lot more things to get. 2 mounts isn't a lot. Same for the glamour stuff. 2 stuffs for girls, one for boys.

That's why everything is so expensive. There is not a lot of stuff to win so, to make it hard to get everything, they just addeds 0s behind...

SE should add more mounts and stuffs. Even stuff acquired somewhere else ! I wouldn't mind seeing some primal-ponnies in the casino... or stuff only obtainable through pure rng (blue bird, opo-opo minions, fat cat...). This way poeple whho already have them won't mind and will focus on more exclusive stuff, while others might try to get them through this new method, a little less rng-based.

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Originally Posted by Auloriel

I think a lot of folks are sore about the price of Fenrir because we were shown the picture of the mount without anything to damper our excitement. Had they said, "Fenrir will be really hard to earn, and only a few will likely ever acquire him", the hype would not have been as..... it would have been toned down.

Instead, we get a picture of him with no indication that acquisition will be different than any previous mounts, leaving our hype and enthusiasm to run wild.

But, to be entirely honest I am not too upset by Fenrir. I do hope that the first several winners of the jumbo cacpot are cool people and not dicks, or they will only enflame the world they are on by constant bragging and generally being a sore winner.

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You'd think they'd have learned from the initial (and secondary) housing price fiasco that sticker shock causes nothing but havoc, anger, and resentment.

When I saw those prices... I died a little. Unless I win the Cacpot I'll likely never see the only mount I've care about after learning of its excistance. I only have 2-4 hours a day I can play. Including gearing up and leveling classes, I get maybe an hour to TT and after talking to people and learning MGP is required for racing I likely wont do it until I get my mount. That number is SO UNREALISTIC, its not like they won't add more things each patch to strive for. Inc the Gamblers' set :(

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

i did take the Jumbo Jackpot into consideration, 1 person is allegeable to win the grand prize each week

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Where did you hear that? Because in-game it just says that what you win is a matter of how many of the digits you match. There are even a couple NPCs nearby talking about it. One says something to the effect of "So, the odds of winning the grand prize are approximately 10,000 to 1, right?" and his companion answers "If by 'approximately' you mean 'exactly' then yes."

Your chances of winning the grand prize (or any of the other prizes for that matter) aren't impacted by whether anyone else has those same numbers or not. It's just a matter of how many of your numbers match the chosen ones. The only impact other players have on your results is whether there are enough tickets sold to unlock all the various bonuses that increase the payouts for each prize.

Speaking of those bonuses, does anyone know whether they're already accounted for in the listed payout amounts? Or are they added on top of that? (If the bonuses are in addition to the listed payouts, then even the "consolation" prize for no matches is enough to pay for the price of the ticket.)

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Originally Posted by Jesden

whats the highest R, do we know?

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Well, there's an achievement for ranking your racing chocobo up to rank 285. If the ranks can go that high, the races presumably do as well. And while it's not exactly stated (at least anywhere I can find) that that's the rank cap, it would be an odd place to put the achievement if it isn't the cap. So I'm guessing R-285 (or a named equivalent) is going to be the top one.

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Originally Posted by mbncd

You forgot to forget your TL: DR math but I just wanted to point out that by correcting your math you already got more than you wanted o.o

You wanted it to take half the time you expected it to, when in fact it'll take a tenth of the time. Be happy ^_^

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ohh silly me, i have fixed it now, and i guess that is the silver lining in this XD

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

snip

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the way it is worded in the introduction of the jumbo cackpot, makes it sound as if once the numbers are announced the first one with a full matching numbers win the jackpot while those who are later to it will only get a smaller (i.e they get a flatter or smaller payout ), it sounds as if only 1 person is allegeable to win the jumbo cacpot (which is bonus and all). this is how i took it into consideration, if it goes with the FFXI version where the prize is split between each player then this would make the one million we have seen a much smaller payout then what it is.

Would've been great if the RNG for once could flip sides, and everyone won the jumbo. Tortoises everywhere!

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

the way it is worded in the introduction of the jumbo cackpot, makes it sound as if once the numbers are announced the first one with a full matching numbers win the jackpot while those who are later to it will only get a smaller...

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There is no indication of this in game, at all, anywhere. I really think you just made that up... From the patch notes (emphasis mine):

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When the winning number is drawn, in order from the last digit to the first, the more matching numbers you have, the greater the prize you’ll receive. After the drawing, you will have one week (Earth time) to claim your prize. After this one-week period ends, you will be unable to claim MGP or prizes. In addition to your other winnings, you will receive the Early Bird Bonus if you claim your prize within one hour (Earth time) of the Jumbo Cactpot drawing.

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The odds for the cactpot are crazy good, btw. Expected return value on a ticket is a fair bit more than the price of the ticket. I forget the current specific numbers though so I can't calculate it, but will later.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

snip

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dialogue from the Hitting the Cactpot quest

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Originally Posted by hitting the Cactpot

If all your numbers match, then ding, ding, ding─you've hit the Cactpot! You'll receive an embarrassingly large number of MGP, and an extravagant prize besides!
And with the Jumbo Cactpot, the more participants there are, the grander the prizes become. Just imagine how many MGP you'll stand to win if all your friends and allies join in the fun!
When the time comes to draw the winning number, look no further than the lovely Cactpot cashier. She will provide you with everything from first prize to consolation points.

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additional

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In addition to your other winnings, you will receive the Early Bird Bonus if you claim your prize within one hour (Earth time) of the Jumbo Cactpot drawing.

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(we do not know what this bonus for being the first within the hour of the draw.)

bolded the parts that can be taken as first come first rewarded. The idea of a first place prize loses its meaning when multiple people strike the same part, a tie in the chocobo races has both players in 1st gain the same experience and MGP as the 2nd place, meaning in truth there is no first person.
thus the same could be said that they will follow the FFXI approch and split the winnings, with each and every winner, not only this but in ffxi if someone claimed the pot and the other person was not on the rest of the time limit ( i think it was only a 2 hour collection time from the first person) then they lose out while the first person gains the remaining pot.

not stating the odds are not good 1 out of 10.000 is really good for a game with 4 million active users, but it is how they handle this that is worrysome,

also i do like the full refund if you lose, that is kind of SE,
again i aint arugeing the jumbo cackpot is a impossible chance, it is just a variable that is very anomalus and it is more likely to be lost then gained.the original wall of math was made ignoring this mostly due to the small chance of winning, compared to how they hand out the prizes.

I... I really don't understand you. The patch notes and the ingame text both say that if all your numbers match, you win 1st prize. If the last three match, you get 2nd prize, if the last two match you get 3rd, and if the last number matches, you get the 4th prize. If none match, you get the consolation prize. Then, if you turn in your ticket within an hour of the drawing, you get a bonus (which I believe is specified on the ticket?).

None of this has anything to do with any other players. None of it. If you match all the numbers, you win big! If everyone matches all the numbers, everyone wins! Millions of MGP for all! If you get there within an hour, you get more! If everyone gets there within an hour, everyone wins more! And then the instance crashes. Whee!

This is consistent with all other content in this game. Mining a node before another person does not affect their chance to gather from that node. Everyone can get full credit on a hunt, and everyone has the same chance to obtain mark logs no matter how many people are participating, or are in your party. Killing Ultros in Dragon's Neck can drop the Terra card for the entire party. All four people can get a dungeon atma after a run.

Please stop making things up and then stating them as if they were true. It's confusing, misleading, and starts rumors. That's really not okay.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

bolded the parts that can be taken as first come first rewarded. The idea of a first place prize loses its meaning when multiple people strike the same part

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If you think that just the fact of naming it "first prize" means there's only one, then the same would hold true of "second prize", "third prize", and "fourth prize". Yet the game explicitly describes the conditions for each one, and those conditions don't involve the luck of other players. There may or may not be multiple players who get all four numbers right, but there's certain to be lots who get just the last number right. Do you think that that fourth prize gets divided between all of them? Or that only one of them gets anything?

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

a tie in the chocobo races has both players in 1st gain the same experience and MGP as the 2nd place, meaning in truth there is no first person.

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The chocobo race is different, because it is a race. That's the nature of races, that your result is measured in terms of how you place among the other contestants. So that has the concept of a tie, and therefore SE has to come up with a way of scoring ties.

In jumbo cactpot, the score is how many of the four numbers you get right. Other contestants don't affect your score because other contestants don't affect how many of the four numbers you get right.

Then allow me to rephrase and repeat something i have already said.

The wall of math and the math is done to see how one would reach 1 million by doing a sole activaty dose not include anomalus readings such as the jumbo cactpot (due to if SE will follow what they did in ffxi which is split the pot per winner, or give everyone a full prize) or Triple Triad Tournaments (we currently do not know the consistency of these tournaments)

this wall of math was done looking at each GATE and Triple triad, as well as some chocobo racing.

until the jumbo cactpot is done on Sunday 2am GMT, and we see how the results are played out, then if it is a stable everyone gets the 1+million i will place it in the wall of math at the bottom with its chances of winning (1 in 10,000 or 0.001%)

the wall of math will be updated with how long you will take if you manage to squeeze everything in, i am still putting the numbers togeaver and taking note of time in-between each GATE.