Triple Triad is the same thing as Atma

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

I'd actually like that. You can stop treating me like a kindergartener SE, I don't mind my opponents seeing my name in PVP instead of "Black Mage"! Or other players more skilled players taking my cards. If I don't want to lose them I'll get better.

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I think it would be cool to gamble cards, but allow it to be an option. People would start being picky about what kind of cards they play. Also, a setting limited rules for your own games like, "Highest number 7" or something would be kind of nice so people can play lower card decks and not absolutely destroy them if that was a rule set they decided on. I personally set up a "newbie" set so I can play and teach other players how to play while leveling the playing field.

Edit: Then again, players could abuse this, it would be fun imo.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

basically you keep doing the same thing over and over and hope that the item you want will drop after 2-3 hours.

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You want farm cards, but don't want the side-effect of farming. Seriously? "Farm" anything works that way, call it cards or something other, you beating a dead horse.

RNG does not make this exactly like Atma. You're immediate use of hyperbole makes me immediately not care.

Except triple triad is fun.

Fates on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Zephrey

Also, a setting limited rules for your own games like, "Highest number 7" or something would be kind of nice so people can play lower card decks and not absolutely destroy them if that was a rule set they decided on.

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Plus rule, where a weak card can be a strong card if played well

I enjoy playing so I don't really mind not always getting cards even when I win.

I'm with you on that, they need quality content and not grind content... If they want to be on the forefront of gaming they need to introduce more enticing content that doesn't force you to grind stuff out.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

PS. one definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result...at which point I would refer you to your 1st sentence.

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Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is pretty much the whole idea of RNG.

Does this mean that RNG = insanity?

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I don't think I'm going to argue with that!

"We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad... You must be, or else you wouldn't have come here." - The Cheshire Cat, "Alice in Wonderland"

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

RNG does not make this exactly like Atma. You're immediate use of hyperbole makes me immediately not care.

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Actually it's a pretty fair comparison. RNG grinds are a thing of the past and it should stay that way. I'm not sure why people like you want to keep grinding their life away on boring content. It baffles me.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is pretty much the whole idea of RNG.

Does this mean that RNG = insanity?

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Well we do all pray to RNJesus so we'v got to all be at least a bit mad.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Actually it's a pretty fair comparison. RNG grinds are a thing of the past and it should stay that way. I'm not sure why people like you want to keep grinding their life away on boring content. It baffles me.

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RNG in 1 feature and RNG in another feature do not make the two exactly the same. The have a similar feature. That's it. As I said the OP was using hyperbole and you seem to be caught up in the lack of reality his comparison had.

By that rule Mining is Atma, Fishing is Atma, Crafting is Atma, etc. See how silly that comparison is? All those features are in no way the same but they all contain an RNG element. Say it for what it is. RNG sucks. Don't make meaningless and poorly thought out comparisons. You aren't helping your cause by poorly articulating your complaint.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Actually it's a pretty fair comparison. RNG grinds are a thing of the past and it should stay that way. I'm not sure why people like you want to keep grinding their life away on boring content. It baffles me.

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That's pretty much your opinion. I find currency grinds and daily quest grinds turn MMOs into jobs rather than just playing and hoping for an item to drop. One taps into that gambler itch casinos give, as well as rarely have hard limits, while the other makes it feel like you HAVE to do X, Y times or else you will fall behind. Then once your in-game job is done, gotta log off cause nothing else to do.

For those who play little: Forces you to play or you miss out. Better hit that cap or else you are limited for next week!
For those who play alot: After the daily/weekly is done, limits you and there is nothing to do.

As far as RNG is concerned 3 stars and below are not all That hard to get, its the 4-5 stars that are hard to get ( which is acceptable since they are Really rare cards).

1 star- very easy
2 star- easy
3 star- Normal rate ( can still have some trouble getting a 3 star depending on your luck)
4 star- Hard
5 star- Atma drop rates

I really don't see a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

PS. one definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

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I don't particularly agree with the gripes of the TC, just sounds like one of many upset that people around them are scoring the Bahamut card or something while they're still planted in front of King Elmer.

Anywho, that aside, I am tired of seeing this particular quote thrown around so easily on these forums, especially when the topic in-question is random number generators. The whole point of running content over and over for a RNG item they want is to finally see "a different result." That's the whole basis behind Primal drops, Coil, WoD, whatever. Doing them differently isn't going to change what pops out at the end. By that logic everyone is insane for replaying content more than once if what they want doesn't drop.

I can agree with the rest of your post though, just not that "PS." tidbit. Maybe I can find fault with "the dev's intention of the content" (lolhunts), but that's too much of a tangent.

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

Would be actually nice to be able to use the better cards we actually win. I find it VERY unfair that we can only use one rare card (2 stars or higher) per deck but the npcs has no such restrictions at all. And random is such a nightmare.

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So go unlock more cards? Once you obtain 30 unique cards, you can freely use 2 stars, and when you obtain 60 unique cards, you can freely use 3 stars. You will always have 1 card of any rarity that you can use.

At least learn the system before you start complaining about how you don't like it. Jeeze.

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Originally Posted by brody138

So go unlock more cards? Once you obtain 30 unique cards, you can freely use 2 stars, and when you obtain 60 unique cards, you can freely use 3 stars. You will always have 1 card of any rarity that you can use.

At least learn the system before you start complaining about how you don't like it. Jeeze.

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There should at least be 1 rule that allows you to use any cards you like with no restriction.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Anywho, that aside, I am tired of seeing this particular quote thrown around so easily on these forums, especially when the topic in-question is random number generators.

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As I understand it, the cards you can obtain from the NPCs are limited in scope. So, playing and replaying against the NPCs in the expectation of getting anything other than the bog standard cards you already have sounds pretty insane to me.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

As I understand it, the cards you can obtain from the NPCs are limited in scope. So, playing and replaying against the NPCs in the expectation of getting anything other than the bog standard cards you already have sounds pretty insane to me.

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Most NPCs from my understanding, have at least 1 rare card to obtain and the rest ( 1-2 are common).

One thing about RGN that is often over look is the cumulative effect and context of it.

For a player who already finish the previous contents, a new RGN based content is nothing.
(Full fledge omni-crafters going for all zodiarks zeta since nothing to do for example)

For a player who still working on crafting and trying to get his first zodiark weapon, RGN is everywhere. Which is time consuming since you are restricted to only do one thing. (Trying to manage gils, seals and time)

That why most ppl now hate RGN based contents since it hold them back for nothing. RGN is just something to keep contents last longer.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Most NPCs from my understanding, have at least 1 rare card to obtain and the rest ( 1-2 are common).

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Then I stand corrected. :)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

As I understand it, the cards you can obtain from the NPCs are limited in scope. So, playing and replaying against the NPCs in the expectation of getting anything other than the bog standard cards you already have sounds pretty insane to me.

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What about the people who farmed ex primals in hope to get something that is not standard drop, the ponies?
Can we call now the ponies atma ponies?

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Originally Posted by Fluffya

For a player who still working on crafting and trying to get his first zodiark weapon, RGN is everywhere. Which is time consuming since you are restricted to only do one thing. (Trying to manage gils, seals and time)

That why most ppl now hate RGN based contents since it hold them back for nothing. RGN is just something to keep contents last longer.

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It's almost like you have to put in effort and dedication to achieve a completely optional reward in an MMO!

Oh, wait.

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Originally Posted by Felis

What about the people who farmed ex primals in hope to get something that is not standard drop, the ponies?
Can we call now the ponies atma ponies?

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Only if I can call mine Twilight sparkle....:P

I was under the impression that the NPCs only yielded common cards, not rare ones, as I replied to Starlord, who corrected that understanding, I stand corrected.

That said, when a drop rate is abysmally low, I do think that the quote applies, I mean, I once spent about 2 months of game play trying to farm a specific item in a game. It was required to unlock a dual weild ability, and the drop rate was well below 1%, some speculated it was as low as 0.01%. Based on personal expeience, I would agree that the rate could well have been that low. I would also have found it impossible to disagree with anyone looking at that situation and advising me that doing the same thing over and over in the hope of a different outcome was insane. In the end, I got the item from a completely differnent quest that the game added specifically to alleviate the problem.

The lesson I learned then was that farming something with such a low drop rate is borderline insane because of the potential to spend months of time on a single item.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Except triple triad is fun.

Fates on the other hand...

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FATES are fun. TT will get tedious after you've done 1000 of those too.

I stopped with this atma sh*t after 2 hours and never touched it again.

personally i find TT much more motivating, because with every card you get a reward that you can actually use if you want to.

Someone here clearly never played against Zell's mom for hours so she "might" use Zell card or against Edea with Closed/Elemental/Same/Plus/Same Wall/Random/Sudden Death rules to win Edea card....

I don't get you guys... i mean this IS DAY 2 of the patch and we will have this to worry till 2.55 which will have story (completed in 1 day) and other minor things... this is supposed to be a time sponge place to kill all the dead hours, play a game or 2 every now and then while waiting for friends df or other stuff.

So what if you get every card in 1 try and all mgp reward where high, after 1 week gold saucer would be dead.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Can we call now the ponies atma ponies?

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While I don't have any quotes handy, it would surprise me a great deal if obtaining ponies has not been compared to Atmas at SOME point.

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

woho. asian moron dev rng strikes again. winning againist the king like 200+ times. no cards at all. thats fun SE so much FUN! get a clue plz devs. fun is something different not mindlessly playing aganist the same fucking npc 300 times to see a single card thats not even of much use. bullshit design as always when asian rng is in play. so sick of this. stop with it plz. just stop it. the dropchance for some cards is like 0.01% it seems and of course some lucky sobs get em with no effort. EFFORT = REWARD devs. not RNG LUCK = REWARD.

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Dude, you do realize you could pour ALL of your effort into a casino, and still come out with absolutely no rewards and even less than when you entered? Right?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm not entirely sure that it's meant to be played with such intensity over a short period of time in order to farm cards, I think the intention was for it to be an aside to the main game that people can pick up and put down as they go. Honestly if people play 50+ matches against 1 NPC every day for 2-3 days and get bored, it serves them bloody well right.

PS. one definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result...at which point I would refer you to your 1st sentence.

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Except doing the same thing over and over in this game can actually give you a different result. That's the whole point of RNG(along with keeping people playing longer ofc).

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Originally Posted by Brill_

If the RNG is as awful as I heard, then grinding matches is the only way to collect cards. If you play casually, it'll take months to get a single card. An atma like RNG should not be tied to a mini-game.

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It is not like atma at all

blame this on the concept of "casual" (and it's negative association) people feel like the gotta burn through content so freakin fast that in a week yaaaa im done, but you also so burnt from doing it that you dont even enjoy it anymore. Slow down people! enjoy the game!

I AM already bored of this card game, Lol..... (and the rest of GoldenSaucer stuff...)
I liked it in FF8, because it was FUN!!

I extremly dislike doing the same thing 1000x for just a very little reward in the end... (mindless grindfest) <.<

...wanted to get Fenrir SE so bragged out...! But after I saw the ridicoules and price for 1mio pts(It was like a big middlefinger to my face!), my interessts on it went to 0% and I teleported to Old Gridania to afk around. -.-

it is content that is supposed to last. too bad for the ppl that rush in to get all in patch day. I felt comforted to see fenrir is 1mil points ^^

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

I don't know what the pay out is in racing or scratch cards, but it looks like the only decent way to grind MGP at the moment. Only 10k MGP for the glam shield.

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personally i think higher tiers of chocobo racing is gonna be the best way to get MGP im guessin when ur chocobo has a rating of 285 for the achivement the payouts in those races are gonna be 300-400

on topic card drop rate isnt bad the problem is certain groups of gamers expect to get everything given to them on a silver platter with little or no effort. asoon as somethin that will require effort comes along they whinge like a 3 year old todler throwing a tantrum cause thier parents didnt buy them the toy they wanted at the shops

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I AM already bored of this card game, Lol..... (and the rest of GoldenSaucer stuff...)
I liked it in FF8, because it was FUN!!

I extremly dislike doing the same thing 1000x for just a very little reward in the end... (mindless grindfest) <.<

...wanted to get Fenrir SE so bragged out...! But after I saw the ridicoules and price for 1mio pts(It was like a big middlefinger to my face!), my interessts on it went to 0% and I teleported to Old Gridania to afk around. -.-

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Oh, you'd rather afk around? That's....more fun to you?

Well, okay then!

Gold Saucer is supposed to be a place you go to kill some time, not grind something 1000 times over and over all day and night until you finally get the Fenrir mount within three days time.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

on topic card drop rate isnt bad the problem is certain groups of gamers expect to get everything given to them on a silver platter with little or no effort. asoon as somethin that will require effort comes along they whinge like a 3 year old todler throwing a tantrum cause thier parents didnt buy them the toy they wanted at the shops

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The problem that most people who are somewhat, disappointed lets say, with Triple Triad card acquisition is that you often run into these VERY nasty combinations of Difficulty, Grinding, and Time Gating.

There are NPCs who give 2 star cards, that you need to get your 30 to unlock free use of 2 star cards, who's hands have multiple 4 and 5 star cards. 1 star hand vs 4/5 star hand constitutes MASSIVE difficulty.

Well, as we all know and many have proven, we CAN defeat these vastly stronger NPC hands... IF the regional rules are in OUR favor. Things like Plus, Swap, Reverse, and sometimes Order, can give us the edge, especially Reverse, against the NPCs. BUT these regional rules change once a day... And I am pretty sure that some do not change at all.
This is a form of Time Gating. There are going to be NPCs who are going to beat you 99% of the time, because on this day, they are playing with Random, so your hand is magically all 1 stars, and their hand is, again magically, still all 4s and 5s. Maybe tomorrow they will be Plus, or even Reverse!... Oh how we will all spend a day THRASHING Hab if he ever goes Reverse... But yes, this is time gating.

And the grind... um, yeah... "Atma-like" drop rate is fairly correct.
I got Memeroon's card in 1 try. Got Momodi's in nearly 100 wins. Spent 4 hours going against King, got 7 Godberts, came back in an hour, 1 round, 1 win, 1 Bahamut card.
Sounds like Atma again doesnt it?

Understand, we are not complaining because we want everything on a silver platter right f*cking now. We're complaining because there are SEVERE difficulty imbalances. The grind IS real AND you only get a chance to get a card IF you win, which against some NPCs you will have a 10% win rate, UNLESS the rules that they play by on this particular day are favorable for you... of course this means that on some days, there will be NPCs who are nigh unbeatable. Try consistently beating Rowena with Random. Unless she makes 3 terrible moves, you will not win. But Rowena with Plus or Reverse, you can win a whole lot more.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

The problem that most people who are somewhat, disappointed lets say, with Triple Triad card acquisition is that you often run into these VERY nasty combinations of Difficulty, Grinding, and Time Gating.

There are NPCs who give 2 star cards, that you need to get your 30

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ive beaten 15 npcs and gotten 26 cards without much difficulty at all yesh the npcs have strong decks but they are also stupid lol they make dumb moves which u can capitilse on and take control of the match problem is groups of gamers wanna burn through content in a day then whinge how they have nothin to do

i personally hope they keep TT the way it is no nerfs needed gives longetivity to it n give those who put more time into learning tactics for each npc an advantage for tournaments.. in hindsight thats why they are whingin cause know without puttin in the effort n learnin tactics they dont stand a hope in tournaments

Hmm... grammar and punctuation would go a long way towards making your criticisms of those of us who are displeased with the system feel more legitimate.
Also allowing one to finish their post outside of the 1000 character limit, especially when they end with half a sentence, would be helpful as well.

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Originally Posted by Weedity

Oh, you'd rather afk around? That's....more fun to you?

Well, okay then!

Gold Saucer is supposed to be a place you go to kill some time, not grind something 1000 times over and over all day and night until you finally get the Fenrir mount within three days time.

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I agree.

I wonder why people so want to grind stuff.

So if it takes me 1 year to get them all, what does it matter?

I don't grind, yeah I walk still mostly in 90 gear, but I refuse to grind. I only do thing because I want them to do, when I start to grind I usually get bored within a few days.
I really don't understand how people can do things that are boring...

I really enjoy the gold saucer a lot, but you won't see me grind there, I only come there for a nice distraction.

But everyone has their own way of playing... I guess... :D