Stop FFXIV Gender Inequality!

Here are more examples of the version that the male bunny outfit could look like:

http://i.imgur.com/kCbgOMo.png

http://i.imgur.com/0WP0jqh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CeFEJBF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0mGjOIk.jpg


But this is the best example, someone posted this yesterday on Reddit, its a fanart that shows a Lalafell male wearing a bunny outfit (which again shows Lalafell = Master Race).
http://i.imgur.com/gZ5lx6L.jpg

I've always been a supporter of freedom for characters to wear whatever they want, without gender or race restrictions. I may not personally like some of the outfits people come up with, but at the same time, it's not fair of me to say what someone else should or should not wear.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Here are more examples of the version that the male bunny outfit could look like:

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Just my opinion here but if by any chance they ever end up giving male an outfit I'd rather it be similar to the female one as in it's made for a casino hotess, a pin-up bunny, so something with more sex appeal would be more suitable than some of the example you give that would be more appropriate for an Easter event... imo

just my two cents i personally don't want to look like a giant easter bunny while girls gets the sexy playboy look >> ...

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Let's be fair here. If female Roegadyn can wear the bunny outfit, then why not other males?

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Why do people keep making jokes like this? It's not funny.

I'm ambivalent on the idea of male characters wearing the exact same bunny outfits as females - but they should at least be given an outfit with the same function. Someone mentioned the Chippendale look - that, I think, would be a happy compromise. Collar, cuffs, bare chest, and tight pants or briefs. Throw in bunny ears, too - not part of the traditional look but hey, why not? That way, we would have an outfit that serves the same function available for both genders (bunny outfit on ladies to titilate men and women who like looking at ladies, and chippendale outfit on men to titilate men and women who like looking at men).

This thread again.

I don't think this ia about "women can cross dress too". Just a

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm sorry you have some weird mental hangup that makes what should be a mundane event so traumatizing for you. That doesn't justify inequality, though.

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I'm sure Songi was being over-dramatic...I don't really want the males to wear it either...I wanna say let people wear what they want but sometimes there's a line to be crossed.
But who am I to say what people can't wear? But this is how I personally feel.
What they COULD do is make a male equivalent of the outfit. I don't mind gender restricted outfits so that's why I'm on the fence.

Those who know TERA know that they have bigger issues fanservicing and coddling the Loli's.
Loli > All. Master race, no questions asked.
So I purpose a female and male equivalent on outfits.
No one is left out.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I'm ambivalent on the idea of male characters wearing the exact same bunny outfits as females - but they should at least be given an outfit with the same function. Someone mentioned the Chippendale look - that, I think, would be a happy compromise. Collar, cuffs, bare chest, and tight pants or briefs. Throw in bunny ears, too - not part of the traditional look but hey, why not? That way, we would have an outfit that serves the same function available for both genders (bunny outfit on ladies to titilate men and women who like looking at ladies, and chippendale outfit on men to titilate men and women who like looking at men).

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Agreeing with this so much~
I'd just love to see the ears on guys, actually. Full outfit would be loveeee, but ears ... too cute.
Just having the option to choose is nice, really. Something equally as sexy/cute for both isn't harmful.

Honest question.

We're playing a game where anyone can be anything.

If you want dresses and skirts that much, more than what's already in game... why not just roll a female character, or fantasia into one?

people need to chill out !!! its a game who cares if male chars cant wear dresses or skirts or bunny outfits or bikini's its a game, not real life. we are here to escape from all the ploticially correctness of every day life. people need to releax and if its such a huge deal go pop a fantasia potion. we either choose to play the game the way it is designed for us to play or we move on to another game . stop complaining and carry on playing

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Honest question.

We're playing a game where anyone can be anything.

If you want dresses and skirts that much, more than what's already in game... why not just roll a female character, or fantasia into one?

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What if they want to be a male who wears a dress? Since you can be anything that you want, isnt it normal to expect such choices?

For me its not the dresses, I dont like dresses on my character, but I can understand why some would love to glamour their character with dresses. What I dislike is how males get shafted again when it comes to glamour items. This has happend 3 times now, SE releases a patch where males get to share a outfit with females and females get another extra outfit for themself. We all read what happend when the community tought Setzer was male only. We got a 20+ pages about how its unfair that female dont get that outfit.

Now I and others want to have the same thing as the female avatars a bunny outfit. Why do people find it so upsetting that we want the same amount of outfits for both genders? I tought equality was a good thing, something we all wanted? I mean is this SE way of saying, female characters deserve more glamours then males, even tough we all pay the same amount subsciption fee?

I just want someone from SE to explain to us (me), why they thought it was a good idea to give female characters more glamours.

To those that tell us to chill out, I want the same treatment as others. Imagine if SE started releasing new hairstyles for Hyur only.... I bet my moogle cap that alot and I mean alot of players would come on the forum and complain to SE that they want to be treated the same as those that play Hyur. Now imagine if someone told you to chill out, its just a game.... how would you repond?

Having played TERA and seen how only the Loli race got the new outfits, class etc, this is unfair and I dont want this to happen to FFXIV.

Those are some fair points but mostly focused around a larger issue. In general, I think healers, for example, need more gear and glamor diversity. It's gotten a little better but it's still lacking very much compared to DoW options.

As for gender... Ehhh, yes, I'm not in favor of a great many genderlocked outfits. But also the male and female forms are different. If something's modeled for a female, there's extra work to then make it work on the bulkier male form. So I don't really have a problem with a genderlocked dress, of other garments that are traditionally female (due to the extra resource cost to make them unlocked).

Scylla's robe is a good example of something that is a dress in all but name but wearable by males, for example. And previous posters have mentioned other options...

So, even for a male, there are a good number of options. But if one wants literally everything available to female characters... it just seems to me like they might as well play a female character.

In any case, I would prefer more resources were dedicated to outfits more applicable to everyone. But I'm not sure why the focus is on genderlocking when gender is a cosmetic, changeable variable, while class locking (for example) has actual gameplay impact.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Now I and others want to have the same thing as the female avatars a bunny outfit. Why do people find it so upsetting that we want the same amount of outfits for both genders? I tought equality was a good thing, something we all wanted? I mean is this SE way of saying, female characters deserve more glamours then males, even tough we all pay the same amount subscription fee?

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Apparently gender equality is not allowed for males in online games.

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Originally Posted by ladyJ

people need to chill out !!! its a game who cares if male chars CAN wear dresses or skirts or bunny outfits or bikini's its a game, not real life. we are here to escape from all the ploticially correctness of every day life.

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fixed it for you

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Originally Posted by NaliaBrown

Why do people keep making jokes like this? It's not funny.

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Technically when you think of it, can't fem roe be so muscular and huge that it get close enough to the build of a male char and therefor making it easier to remodel?
i mean i don't actually know anything about that

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

I'm sure Songi was being over-dramatic...I don't really want the males to wear it either...I wanna say let people wear what they want but sometimes there's a line to be crossed.
But who am I to say what people can't wear?

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Possible. We all know sarcasm and text mix like oil and water.

As for the rest of your post, I don't particularly want to see man-bunnies or chippendales, either. But, hey, my camera rotates 360 degrees. Why not let the people who want the outfit have the outfit?

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Originally Posted by Songi

Merely imagining males in a Bunny suit is enough to scar me for life. I think I'd rather keep it gender exclusive thanks.

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A list of things that will not impede your every day life despite you saying so.

1.This

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Originally Posted by Songi

Merely imagining males in a Bunny suit is enough to scar me for life. I think I'd rather keep it gender exclusive thanks.

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Because you running around as a 'Battle Maid' is any less ridiculous. My immmerrrrrsssiioooon.

I just can't wait for the next version update, after this version update that will drop glamor gear that is more suited to one sex and have the players of the other sex complained that they are being ignored.

I don't care either way, but I can say I'd be the most dashing male lalafell bunny on balmung ;)

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

I seem to remember a lot of female characters bitching when it was thought that the Setzer outfit would be male only. So yes, stop the sexism and make all outfits unisex.

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No thanks. It's not even about sexism and more like people on this forum crying when things don't please them as usual. It would just look stupid to have male wear the bunny GIRL outfit because they aren't designed for unisex (showing off curves when males have no curves). They might as well make a different costume for male if they want to make it equal.

As someone who fantasia's back and forth between genders frequently because of glamour and looks, gender restrictions on clothing are so frustrating. They give us the power to change literally everything about our characters whenever we choose (to pay), but then punish us for making that decision by making so many items inaccessible to male characters.

I feel like the mindset behind this is always "Oh, not that many males would want to wear something like so-and-so so it's not worth the resources." Even skipping over the fact that Square seriously has a poor track record of guessing what actual males will and will not want to wear in their games (look at all that bulky, hideous armor that guys are glamoring out of left and right, lol), that mindset totally ignores the decent percentage of girls like me who like to play male characters. "Adorable" and "sexy" gear for females is often designed with the idea that male players will be using those female characters and appreciate the fanservice. God forbid Square admit that girls even play male characters and might also want to make their characters look cute or fanservice-y. (Or that guys themselves might want to make such characters too!)

At this point all I want is SE being honest and just telling us why females have the right to get +5 gender locked gear while all male locked gear have female equivalent gear.

What is the reason for privileging female characters like this? The beach outfits they added back then have different sets for male and female but they both stay very revealing and lookalike despite being gender locked.

Make a male version of the bunny outfit that's as simple as that and I honestly don't understand why they haven't done it to release them at the same time.

If they can take the time and resources to remodel Setzer's outfit to fit female, then they can do it for male too with that bunny set, otherwise it's pure and unjustified favoritism.

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Originally Posted by Meier

But then you'd have ladies probably wanting that too...I dunno. :/ .

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But maybe for once the female character could be left out on one outfit ever.

I dunno with this one. Seems like they can't win for losing.

On one hand I would say..at least give the guys a male version of the bunny outfit, like: http://i.imgur.com/JooNAFG.jpg

But then you'd have ladies probably wanting that too...I dunno. :/ Then us ladies would have two outfits and guys would only have one.

I kinda agree with Namasu, yanno... The current outfit is not designed towards unisex because it accentuates curves when males do not have the same curves. THEN you could get into different body types blah blah...

But I do think the guys deserve some kinda bunny outfit. If they wanted a sexy one I am sure SE could design one like how they gave the males a bikini lol.

I honestly want to ask a single question to all of those who support this: Do you think this will even be used by alot of people to justify making them unisex across the board?

I played an MMO that pretty much also catered alot to female characters in terms of armor...and only an absolute few times have I seen male toons even WEAR those armors seriously rather than a quick troll moment, what makes this any different that a big chunk of the playerbase will say "Thank You" rather than "Oh god why?"

I understand the intent, I seriously do, but I think that this...is just pretty damn useless. When men usually find themselves in women's attire, it's mainly meant to be funny and nothing else, and you can still see that plenty of people still aren't ready for Drag Queens to begin with. Let's not even mention the people who would possibly do it just to troll and hug your character to bask in it(again, Camera Control isn't saving anything if starts hugging your character for maximum awkwardness)...

Virtually, I'm only opposed to this idea since only a very small portion of the playerbase will even CARE about such options, let alone use it seriously.

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Originally Posted by Ymal

But maybe for once the female character could be left out on one outfit ever.

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This thread title is literally called "Stop FFXIV gender Inequality"

Leaving a gender out is counter-productive and hypocritical. It is either have one for both, or none. Not "leave one out for once"

There are some male exclusive looks that I would love to have on my tomboy female Highlander Hyur. Those looks do still have an equivalent female outfit so I grumble but live with it... It's like Hempen Camise different for every race, at least make it available, even if its different...

I'd be more than happy if they definitely got ride of gender inequality like they did for gear set like the beach set I talked about, I just said that because so far SE has gave no answer (as far as i know) despite the many threads made on the subject, so i'm just saying if nothing about it is going to change it would be nice that maybe for once a special glamour could be made for male and male only. In this community it seems completely normal to most people that because you prefer/want to play as a male you miss out some stuff but if it's mentioned it could be happening to female it seem impossible for it to happen.

tldr i also wish for equality in gear but with se i'm not expecting any changes despite how much i want it to happen

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Originally Posted by Maero

i seen a guy @ Mor Dhona once in what appeared to be a dress and halter top, scarred the heck out of me

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Some of this game content might not be for you then I fear :x never ever do one of the moogle mail quest, your heart might just give out I think.

In other notes this thread just make me want to redo some of my glamours to more skimpy outfit and skirts

The only thing can we do for now its to lobby, lets hold civil discussion where we lobby for the option to have the same amount of outfits as the females. I will be honest, I do not like the idea of a dress on my characters, but others might so they should be allowed to try it on.

Another patch is going to hit in few days and we already have a difference between males and females. In Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, being a male avatar means you are the lesser of the two. This is the Elin BS again, anyone who played TERA knows what I am talking about. It started with Elin getting some outfits, then only Elin got new outfits, Elin only got new emotes and Elin was the only race to be able to unlock a new class. Now we are seeing a trend where female avatars can equip shared gear with males and have access to more outfits exclusive for females. If this continues, 3.0 will bring in more differences between males and females, more hairstyle for females, heck lets give female new emotes aswelll.. after all its only a game, right?

I fear for the future of this game, if this continues.

For the record: I support males getting the same amount of options available to them for glamour purposes. The thing is, we all know SE is doesn't like to put in time to design two totally different models for male and females on the same set.

i seen a guy @ Mor Dhona once in what appeared to be a dress and halter top, scarred the heck out of me

I think the percentage of people who actually want to put their hulking piece of roegadyn man-meat in a dress is sufficiently small that it's not worth the effort designing dresses for them on SE's side.
Remember if it's gender locked, it's not that they're actively pushing gender inequality, it's that they don't want to expend extra effort on something barely anyone of the target gender is going to want to use.
It's why they're a lot more willing to create female versions of the male outfits: A much larger percentage of female character players wear the Best Man's outfit than male character players would even WANT to wear the Bridesmaid's outfit.
Just because YOU want something, doesn't mean there's enough call for it to be designed as such.
There are plenty of skirts for men, though. So many that i've actually had friends complain, as casters, that their choices for armor aren't very "manly."

That said the potential gender locking on the Setzer outfit is...irksome. Same with the Snow outfit. Ladies want longcoats too, y'know.

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Originally Posted by Songi

The thing is, we all know SE is doesn't like to put in time to design two totally different models for male and females on the same set.

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Except that they do it all the time to give male-type outfits to females. Sailor suit, best man gear, Setzer outfit... The "not wanting to design two models" argument literally boils down to "not wanting to design models for males."

I also don't think the other argument from a previous post that "too few males would use this gear to make it worth it" is valid either. Female Roes make up a very, very small percentage of the population, and yet Square "wasted" the resources to make them to make fans happy. If majority rule alone were used to decide every single thing in this game, we'd be missing a lot of things right now.

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Originally Posted by Songi

For the record: I support males getting the same amount of options available to them for glamour purposes. The thing is, we all know SE is doesn't like to put in time to design two totally different models for male and females on the same set.

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I understand what you mean, but I do wonder if SE doesnt like putting in time to design for two models, why make the Setzer armour uni-sex and add a female outfit aswell? Its odd and I know that you dont know anything, its just a question that has been stuck in my head for the past few hours.

What SE should have done is either release:
1: Setzer outfit for male only and Bunny outfit for female only.
2: Setzer outfit is uni-sex and Bunny outfit is uni-sex
3: Sezter outfit is uni-sex and both males and females have their own version of the bunny outfit.
4: Setzer outfit is uni-sex and no bunny outfit both males and females.

Instead they went for 2 outfits for the females and 1 outfit for the males, basicly swinging a middle finger to the players who play with a male character. One could say they are lazy, not enough budget etc, but why make a extra female outfit? Its obvious that there is some favourtism at play when it comes to creating outfits and for some reason the developers in charge of making the outfits/modeling favour the females. Afcourse one could say but bunny girls are always in casinos, but Setzer was a male, yet his outfit is uni-sex now (I supported the option for making Setzer outfit uni-sex) , bringing up FF lore or real life wont work here as a argument.

Males got screwed again and they will probaly get screwed in the future.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

I think the percentage of people who actually want to put their hulking piece of roegadyn man-meat in a dress is sufficiently small that it's not worth the effort designing dresses for them on SE's side.
Remember if it's gender locked, it's not that they're actively pushing gender inequality, it's that they don't want to expend extra effort on something barely anyone of the target gender is going to want to use.
It's why they're a lot more willing to create female versions of the male outfits: A much larger percentage of female character players wear the Best Man's outfit than male character players would even WANT to wear the Bridesmaid's outfit.
Just because YOU want something, doesn't mean there's enough call for it to be designed as such.
There are plenty of skirts for men, though. So many that i've actually had friends complain, as casters, that their choices for armor aren't very "manly."

That said the potential gender locking on the Setzer outfit is...irksome. Same with the Snow outfit. Ladies want longcoats too, y'know.

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You make a fine point, but what about the new outfits? They made the Setzer outfit for both genders and added a female exclusive outfit. They could have made a male version aswell, but instead decided to give females only a extra outfit. Do you think this is oke? I mean what if they decided to give only Lalafell new emotes, because it fits the race. Instead of giving the other races emotes that fit them, they decided to focus only on Lalafell, would this be oke?

I don't mind if anyone want's their guy characters in dresses. It be nice if they had that level of customization for characters. However as someone stated above don't think their is enough people to rally behind it to get the developers to do that.

Now I totally think they should have a male version of the bunny suit. They already have speedos, take a chapter from Magic Mike - long dress pants, speedos, shorts with ties, bow ties and add bunny ears. Hehe.

Or hire some people from BioWare. i'm pretty sure they know how to fix the "drag" inequality part and make everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Female Roes make up a very, very small percentage of the population, and yet Square "wasted" the resources to make them to make fans happy. If majority rule alone were used to decide every single thing in this game, we'd be missing a lot of things right now.

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The presence of a choice of a gender of a race is different than the lack of a choice for an outfit for one gender.
To put it bluntly, there are more people that play female Roe or like the OPTION of playing as female Roe, than there are for being able to wear a wedding dress as a male.
The addition of female roe for 2.0 is also a bad example since the basic model already existed in 1.0: Her name's Merlwyb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvXSHLPB1aM
It was actually the EXclusion of female roe (and male miqo'te, and female highlander) that caused more issues in the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Except that they do it all the time to give male-type outfits to females. Sailor suit, best man gear, Setzer outfit... The "not wanting to design two models" argument literally boils down to "not wanting to design models for males."

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I guess I didn't word it correctly. Okay let me spell it out for you. When something is unisex in this game it usually has the same exact appearance on both a male and female. Some things may get a minor modification from male to female like the Scylla robe for example, but it's not a totally different model at all. Until SE is willing to go the extra mile and create two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT models for male and females we're not going to see gender equality happen.

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Originally Posted by KyteRaikkonen

Notice how all the people opposing have female characters,

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Nah, the people opposing the "Males in drag" idea is limited purely to the backwards peeps. Or males wondering around in female characters.

Most actual women who play women characters could care less. We would actually WANT you to have a skirt if you want to wear it. You wanna just wear the bunny ears? Go for it. You wanna wear the whole thing? Go for it. I'm not gonna sit here and tell anyone it's weird to see blah blah blah just because it's not the society's idea of normal.

People who are opposed to men wearing whatever they want (even if it's the spring dress) need to go back to the dark ages where they belong.

And Zakka has the truth of it, there's not enough people to rally to your cause against the devs who are against the idea of drag because of their own cultural understanding of it.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

The presence of a choice of a gender of a race is different than the lack of a choice for an outfit for one gender.
To put it bluntly, there are more people that play female Roe or like the OPTION of playing as female Roe, than there are for being able to wear a wedding dress as a male.
The addition of female roe for 2.0 is also a bad example since the basic model already existed in 1.0: Her name's Merlwyb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvXSHLPB1aM
It was actually the EXclusion of female roe (and male miqo'te, and female highlander) that caused more issues in the playerbase.

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Um, sorry but have you made a total count? Did you run through every zone on every server of Eorzea 24/7 making a player poll to determine the exact number of males who would want to wear the wedding dress item if they could? Or are you making assumptions based on your own personal opinions of the number of males who would want to wear dresses? Until you get some real numbers, you really can't "put anything bluntly" about this situation at all.

Merlwyb's presence in 1.0 does not negate the fact that Square had to then utilize plenty of resources to create the various character customization options, all the gear, etc. for female Roegadyn when they were finally made playable. Bottom line: they spent resources on creating models that are relatively rarely used. There is literally no difference between that and creating glamour gear models for males even though they might be rarely used so that people who are passionate about having that "OPTION" can take it.

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Originally Posted by Songi

When something is unisex in this game it usually has the same exact appearance on both a male and female. Some things may get a minor modification from male to female like the Scylla robe for example, but it's not a totally different model at all. Until SE is willing to go the extra mile and create two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT models for male and females we're not going to see gender equality happen.

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The problem with this is that from a design standpoint, every piece of gear on a different race is a completely different model. They all have to be significantly adjusted to match the size, contours, etc. of the race they are being worn by. They are "completely different" models every single time. If they already have to alter and modify the model for every race, there is very little reason they cannot alter their appearance slightly to match the gender as well. And they have already done this with many existing sets of gear in the game (the models for the Evenstar gear, for example, are "completely different"). And this argument doesn't work for things like Spring Dress, which we've already seen (albeit hilariously) on a male model. Basic fact is they don't want to give female-looking gear to males. And that is, in short, not fair.

I gotta be honest. I don't see anything changing. SE is gonna go with what has been working for them since 2.0.