soo are the dragons really the enemy?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

blah.

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Highly doubt it since the end of 2.5 seems to be shaping up to throwing you into the mess that is Ishgard and how their troubles might spill over into other city states if it's not dealt with soon, not to mention the showing of the Ascians influencing the Holy See in some way and said Ascians have been troublesome to everyone for a long time.

Might be good and bad dragons but overall if any dragons are to be our enemies I believe it would only be so for a small period of time and not long term. I doubt for example patch 4.0 or 5.0 will still be fighting dragons in a primary antagonist sense, that's if they will be such even in 3.0 as there could be other antagonists of different races and forms pulling the strings behind the scenes just like Ascians or the dark crystal, perhaps another primal whom is manipulating other primals. I don't know but I just don't see dragons as being long term primary antagonists for the future of FF14 in general which is not to say won't potentially have dragon antagonists. Personally I think Ascians and their god are still the primary antagonists but that could change.

In all likelihood, we'll end up with two groups of dragons: Nidhogg's children and most loyal followers that want to wipe out Ishgard to the last no matter what, and a separate grouping of Dravanians whose faith in the ongoing war is faltering.

Likewise, with the impending upset of Ishgard's culture (as the head of their government is clearly involved with Ascians and probably going to get taken down) there will probably two groups as well: zealous Ishgardians that will fight all the dragons and any outsiders that try to interfere, and Ishgardians whose eyes are opened to how they've been manipulated and played.

Whatever it is I hope the twist is as good as Dalamud XD

Watch the 2.3 ending cutscene "Brave New Companions" again. The Ascians are working with Ishgard. How much strings they are pulling behind the Archbishop's back and for how long they've been doing this is something that will probably be revealed in the second part of the patch or Heavensward.

And even without that revelation, keep in mind that this is still a Final Fantasy game. Ishgard are religious fanatics and any faction in previous FF's that dealt with religion were revealed to be evil or were evil from the get-go.

My theory is that in Heavensward, we'll ally with Ishgard for the beginning portions of the story. Probably because in the second part of this patch, Ishgard is going to get their asses kicked by the dragons. Then some big revelation will happen (probably this sin Ishgard committed if Midgardsormr is to be believed or we see the Ascians behind the scenes) and we'll, maybe not ally with the dragons, but be a neutral faction to stop both sides from killing one another.

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Originally Posted by Meier

Whatever it is I hope the twist is as good as Dalamud XD

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SUDDENLY SHINRYU APPEARS FROM THE MOON! AND ULTRA-MEGA-GIGA-FLARES ALL OF ISHGAURD LEAVING US TO OUR DRAGON MASTERS


coming soon in 3.9 please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

SUDDENLY SHINRYU APPEARS FROM THE MOON! AND ULTRA-MEGA-GIGA-FLARES ALL OF ISHGAURD LEAVING US TO OUR DRAGON MASTERS


coming soon in 3.9 please look forward to it.

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WRONG!

What will happen is that Garlean Invades Erozea again. During the fight they unleash their newest Weapons Ruby Weapon, Diamond Weapon, and Emerald Weapon. When all three are destroyed they unleash a powerful Aether flow into the world causing a Ancient Primal from before the 1st Astral Era began to awaken and it is called..

THE FINAL PRIMAL!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVls2heTbU


:p

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Originally Posted by Intaki

In all likelihood, we'll end up with two groups of dragons: Nidhogg's children and most loyal followers that want to wipe out Ishgard to the last no matter what, and a separate grouping of Dravanians whose faith in the ongoing war is faltering.

Likewise, with the impending upset of Ishgard's culture (as the head of their government is clearly involved with Ascians and probably going to get taken down) there will probably two groups as well: zealous Ishgardians that will fight all the dragons and any outsiders that try to interfere, and Ishgardians whose eyes are opened to how they've been manipulated and played.

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My best guess is that we won't deal with Ishgard during early parts of Arc 1 in 3.0 but the WoL is forced to escape Ishgard due to the revealing the Holy See serves the Ascians and they want the WoL dead before he or she can cause any trouble again. We most likely will have Midgar help us escape and he takes us to the Flying Continent where we will have to gather new allies from the Flying Continent if we wish to save Eorzea from both Ishgard, the Ascians, and Teledji (assuming Teledji succeeds in his Coup d'etat in 2.5 Part 2 and capture all City-state leaders, Minfilia, and our Ishgard allies).

After we gain our new allies we deal with the Ascians in Ishgard and then free our allies from Teledji but by then Teledji may have obtained Omega Weapon. After that it either a direct storyline, a plot twist, or the Garleans begin their new campagin against Eorzea where all city-states have to band together to build our own Eorzean Airship Armada to counter the Garlean Airship Armada, or a Strike to save Ala Mhigo due to the Remaining Garleans in Eorzea being ordered to make a new Campaign with a small Airship Armada given to them by the new Garlean Emperor.

but this is just my best guess.

I'm surprised no one has brought up this:
Yugiri is Au'ra. The Au'ra are half dragon, half human... presumably the descendants of Saint Shiva (and perhaps her followers?) who is labeled as a heretic for having laid with one.
If the Au'ra are a new playable race... obviously we are taking their side.
Obviously, we will NOT be on the Ascian side... which means we will be going against the ruling party of Ishgard, who are controlled by the Ascians or in league with them at least.

I'm sure most of the scions would agree not to side with Ascians once that involvement is made clear. Which likely means those who are loyal to us: House Fortempts(? Dragonhead) and the one in Whitebrim will likely try to overthrow the order being controlled by the Ascians leading in a sort of civil war or perhaps a three way war with the civil war and the dragons forming a third faction.
The question will be when does our character learn of the Ascian influence over Ishgard. We already know the Crystal Braves has some "weak links" that need to be checked out.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

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Well like I said before, most likely we may learn the Ascians control Ishgard early in 3.0 which forces us to flee Ishgard and head to the Flying Continent.

Considering Aymeric and Lucia will be at the party in Ul'dah where the Coup is happening, as 2.5 trailer shows, they may be taken by Teledji if he succeeds with his Coup. So the formation of the Ishgard Rebels to fight against the Holy See and the Ascians may not form until later in 3.0 when we free them.

However, if they avoid capture they may flee to Isghard with us in hopes of convincing the Holy See to help us take back Ul'dah from Teledji and save the other City-state Leaders and Minfilia. Aymeric may say he needs time to set up a meeting with the Holy See at the end of 2.5 Part 2 so we can meet him directly in 3.0. When the Holy See finally decides to meet us in 3.0 storyline, we are finally allowed access into Ishgard due to our actions for saving it and agreement to meet the Holy See. Once we meet the Holy See, he ask us why should Ishgard help the City-states. We give him a answer of our choice and the Holy See responds his reason why he will not help save the City-states. After that he also reveals he knows that we have spoken to Midgar and knowing this he deems us as a Heretic. Aymeric disagrees with this decision and defends us but then both Lahabrea and Elidinus reveal themselves and say somethings to the Holy See and to us. Shocked by this revelation, the Holy See then sends Ishgard soldiers after us and we escape with Aymeric and Lucia's help. After that Midgar then appears and tells us there is still a chance to save Eorzea and it will require us to enter the flying Continent where we will find new allies and a new power. From there Aymeric will tell us to leave Ishgard to them and that they will form a resistance, with Iceheart and her follows as part of the Resistance, against the Holy See and the Ascians. While we head to the Flying Continent to gather allies, the Ishgard resistance focus on trying to take back Ishgard from the Ascians.

However, this is only one of the countless outcomes I've considered may happen so don't take this seriously.

well i have a preety good guess on what "sin" ishgard commited and what they repeat wich leads to the war (if someone explains how the spoiler tag works to me i will post it) well it also explains why icehart has the echo well kinda
as for the rest edwin preety much said what i think too =)

Some humans were really messed up to dragons. Dragons DGAF that the humans around now are not the same as the ones that imprisoned them in a space rock along with bahamut to keep him summoned eternally as a power source. In a lot of the storyline the humanoid races are still the big bad guys.

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Originally Posted by Doki

Some humans were really messed up to dragons. Dragons DGAF that the humans around now are not the same as the ones that imprisoned them in a space rock along with bahamut to keep him summoned eternally as a power source. In a lot of the storyline the humanoid races are still the big bad guys.

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Interesting thing I heard is that the song "Answer" is said to be about Bahamut and the dragons suffering from imprisonment in Dalamud but those are just rumors I heard.

When I think of it; Ishgard kinda looks like that aetherial wand that Moenbryda had. Since Ishgard is such a close proximity to Silver Tear Lake then I wonder if Ishgard is stealing aether to power up the barrier +whatever.

What if the Pope also has a similar device (staff) that Loisoix had?

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Originally Posted by Terin

The Archbishop in Ishgard is clearly being manipulated by the Ascians, so I believe that we are actually fightin on BEHALF of the Dragons, as opposed to against them.

This also makes sense in that fact that the Au Ra are *SUPPOSEDLY* the offspring of Saint Shiva and dragons. As such, Ishgardians hunted them as abominations, driving them out of Eorzea towards Othard. Now that they've returned with Lady Yugiri, they're probably as eager to fight the Ishgardians, as they are embracing their draconic forebears.

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There's no evidence for this whatsoever, never once has there been any connection to SHiva stated about the AuRa

Dragons were the good guys, mortal men were deceived by Ascians, that wanted conflict for their interests (awaken of their god), and Ishgard will burn.

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Originally Posted by Terin

This also makes sense in that fact that the Au Ra are *SUPPOSEDLY* the offspring of Saint Shiva and dragons.

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nice of you to make up your own story based on things some of the players came up with. the Au Ra have no connection to the Dravanian Horde. this has been stated by the devs themselves. it is highly unlikely they have any relation to Shiva as well. we don't even know that they are part dragon(though this is likely)
what we know about the Au Ra is little to nothing with the exception of they come from Othard.
for all we know they could be of relation to some sort of lizards.

My vote is on 'No, not the enemy'. xD Just the Ascians creating and fueling the war. Hell, maybe they're both (dravonians and ishgardians) being manipulated from the very beginning.... (hell... who's to say they weren't at it from the very very very beginning.... I thought I remember seeing something mentioned about a dragon was killed when the Ishgardians first came to the land, and thats when shit started to fly... maybe they were manipulated into killing... but my memory is crap :/)

It would be awesome if the Ascian influence was outted, inside turmoil made and power-in-charge turned over - then possibly new relations between the two created...
Hell, maybe it's not Dravonian vs Ishgardian in the end, but becomes Drav and Ishgard vs the Ascian and Ishgardian higherups (sorry, the name of their people in charge is eluding me atm x.x) xD *wild speculations, just because*

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Originally Posted by Saseal

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That may fit into what we learned in 2.5 being Midgar is in a contract to protect the Source of Aether. In 2.5 we learned the contract Midgar has is with Hydaelyn so what if Ishgard has been draining the Source of Aether to power their city. This may essentially mean Ishgard may be the reason why Hydaelyn is dying since Ishgard may be sucking the life out of Hydaelyn which may be the reason why the Ascians would want to hold control of Ishgard.

If the Ascians can continuing to control Ishgard, Ishgard may continue to drain Hydaelyn's life until she dies and the only way to stop Hydaelyn from dying is to destroy the thing in Ishgard that is draining Hydaelyn's life which would be one possible reason why the dragons may be obsessed with destroying Ishgard and may be the "Sin" Midgar speaks about.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

That may fit into what we learned in 2.5 being Midgar is in a contract to protect the Source of Aether. In 2.5 we learned the contract Midgar has is with Hydaelyn so what if Ishgard has been draining the Source of Aether to power their city. This may essentially mean Ishgard may be the reason why Hydaelyn is dying since Ishgard may be sucking the life out of Hydaelyn which may be the reason why the Ascians would want to hold control of Ishgard.

If the Ascians can continuing to control Ishgard, Ishgard may continue to drain Hydaelyn's life until she dies and the only way to stop Hydaelyn from dying is to destroy the thing in Ishgard that is draining Hydaelyn's life which would be one possible reason why the dragons may be obsessed with destroying Ishgard and may be the "Sin" Midgar speaks about.

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wow this actually would fit the story nicely. I wonder how close to right it might be

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

wow this actually would fit the story nicely. I wonder how close to right it might be

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I doubt since it is only specualtion I put together by the lores we are provided.

Though it would explain the Sin of their father being a Device the "fathers" of Ishgard made to power Ishgard by draining Hydaelyn's life and has been doing so even now. That would mean as long Ishgard remains or until the Device is destroyed the dragons will continue to attack Ishgard under the contract Midgar made with Hydaelyn.

Then comes the question where is the Device that is draining Hydaelyn's life located but I'm guessing it is under the City of Ishgard or some where in the center of Ishgard's infrastructure.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...1c/Ishgard.jpg

Though if true it would also set up maybe part of 3.X storyline being how Ishgard is now adjusting to life without the Device draining Hydaelyn's life to power their city.

My guess is that neither Ishgard nor the Dravanians are fully bad or fully good and will most likely have a good faction that we side with for both as well as a bad faction that we fight against, with potentially an even bigger bad such as the Ascians pulling the strings behind the scenes to set forces against each other to empower themselves.

My theory.

The Covenant:
The Dravanians, under the leadership of Midgard, were originally good and were appointed by Hydaelyn to be the guardians of light in the world. As such they became the protectors of nature and keepers of balance in the world, with Midgard's specific tasks being to watch over Silvertear. This is the covenant that is spoken of in the story quests.

The Sin:
When the city-state of Ishgard grew in power, so did their hubris. They believed themselves superior to the natural world and felt that they were the true righteous champions of good and light, which led to the formation of the church and xenophobic zealotry of current Ishgard. The Ishgardians then began to impose their "righteous" will upon the world around them, which of course brought them into conflict with the Dravanians and the escalating conflict lead to the Dravanians Wars. In essence the Dravanians and Ishgardians conflict was a war of ideals, natural order vs. progress sort of thing, in which they both felt that they were in the right and were the good guys, although Ishgard was really more of the aggressor in this case. This going against the natural order, with perhaps a very specific embodiment such as the device idea that has been presented, is the great sin that the Dravanians accuse Ishgard of.

The good and the bad:
Going into the expansion I believe, as I stated that we will be working with both the Ishgardians and the Dravanians, being teamed with a good faction of them and doing battle against the bad faction of them that has now taken control. For the Dravanians, the offspring of Midgard that has called the rest of the Dravanians to battle will be the leader of the bad faction of them and will be more interested in revenge than maintaining the covenant. The good Dravanians will be mainly Midgard, who sees the path the Dravanians are going down and wants the player to help bring them back into their intended purpose as well as maybe finally accepting the player as a champion of light and so a "passing of the torch" scenario may happen.
As far as the Ishgardians, the bad faction will most likely be the church of Ishgard as it has already been heavily hinted at that they are being controlled or manipulated by the Ascians.
The good faction will most likely be a small contingency of leaders and noble houses that are fearful of what another war with the Dravanians will do to Ishgard and wish to find another way to end the conflict. Almeric will most likely play a large role in this and could potentially become the military leader of this faction.

Light and Dark:
As has been revealed in the story, the Ascians have been the puppet masters behind a lot of what has been going on and this will of course most likely continue on into the expansion.
We as the players will be working with the good elements within the Dravanians and Ishgardians in an attempt to stop the conflict. As we are doing this we discover that the Ascians are once again working behind the scenes and have manipulated the bad factions into full-scale war with each other, most likely so that they will destroy each other. The defeat of one or both groups will probably have some ripple effect, like the breaking of some seal or something, that will weaken Hydaelyn and therefore empower Zodiark, allowing the scales of balance to be tipped in darkness' favor.

So anyways, that is my general guess as to what is up with the story and where it will go.

Its like yes I want them to be the enemy so I can be a dragon slayer. But also no because I want be a dragon rider.

DECISIONS THEY HURT.........

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Originally Posted by Dererk

Its like yes I want them to be the enemy so I can be a dragon slayer. But also no because I want be a dragon rider.

DECISIONS THEY HURT.........

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Why not both?

They need to keep the area FATE event consistant to the story so most likely we may be introduced to a Evil Faction of Dragons not loyal to Midgar to serve as the lore reason why we still fight dragons in certain locations and/or future locations. Along with other different factions of Dragons for new areas for future FF14 Storyline.

I always thought that all dragons hated mankind in general due to the invasion of the allag empire during the 3rd umbra/astral era. And while this event is way far back in the past before the dragon/ishgard war, the history is the same.

It should be noted that bahamuts faction is different to the dragons who worship midgardsormr though.