Bard Points Allocation - Isn;t it DEX?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faelandaea

I have to get to a meeting but when I get back home I am going to work with your tips, take the buffs out of the attack macros and see if I can, as you say, get better at hitting buttons.

---

Err. . .just to be clear, it's not only a matter of taking the buffs out of the macros, it's a matter of not using macros at all. To explain why, I'll use a healing example. I'm sure you've noticed the ability to chain cast heals, such that the next one starts exactly when the first one finishes casting, right? That's because the game accounts for latency and just general button mashing by queuing abilities, such that if you hit a button within the last quarter of a second or so that ability goes off right as the old one ends (which screws NIN sometimes with mudra, but that's a different topic). Well, the game does *not* do this if it's a macro instead of an ability. So, if you're hitting Heavy Shot 3-4 times in a row, each time is taking you an extra fraction of a second, however long after the GCD is up it takes you to hit the button again. Each time it happens is a tiny loss of DPS.

Bard isn't about big numbers... it's small/medium numbers at a rapid pace. Have u seen the amount of damage we do with all our buffs weaved into a Barrage? it's insane..

Just make sure you're weaving your buffs nicely with your shots

Is True Shot always up?
Both dots always up?
do you have blood for blood unlocked? using it with Internal Release and Hawk's Eye?
are you using True Shot when it's guranteed to crit?

there's so many factors for bard, learn the rotation and priority and you'll be fine...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faelandaea

if by "3rd party" you mean a parser, there's nothing against the EULA about that. You should know this because you, like every player, have fully read all of the terms and conditions and the license agreements before you committed to buying a subscription.

---

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en
- 2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...5bd14ffec4345f
- Although we will continue to monitor game data to ensure that similar illegitimate practices are not being used, we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service...

Looks like you didn't read properly at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melriss

- Although we will continue to monitor game data to ensure that similar illegitimate practices are not being used, we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service...

Looks like you didn't read properly at all.

---

This is the part they actually care about, though. Yes, parsers are technically against the ToS, but unless you're using some part of it to do things in game that others can't, they don't really care.

People upload videos/images of parsers being shown daily. People streaming nearly always have a parser open. Ask yourself, why haven't these people been banned?

Yes, it's against the ToS to use parsers, but SE don't really care as long as you're not using parsing to harass others. They made the ToS broad enough to cover all kinds of malicious 3rd-party tools/hacks/mods which others may use and unfortunately, parsers fall prey to the wording used in the ToS. YoshiP even addressed this issue around this time last year and pretty much confirmed, as long as you do not speak about it in game or use parsers with malicious intent, nothing will happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melriss

Insert crusade post that does not relate to the topic here

---

Okay, listen - I know that people reading their DPS seriously bothers you, but the whole parser bit has been discussed, concluded, and is now old news. We're discussing Bard game-play and rotations here. I'm no longer using the parser. Now I'm just discussing with fellow players how to improve on the information I have. You lecture me on my reading skills, yet you clearly aren't reading this thread other than to troll. It's amusing, though. You kind of remind me of one of those mall security guards that has one of those little yellow lights on their car, and tries to use it to pull someone over for not using their blinker. If the Devs have an issue with anything I did, they'll call me out on it, and I will listen to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rekujin

Just make sure you're weaving your buffs nicely with your shots

do you have blood for blood unlocked? using it with Internal Release and Hawk's Eye?

there's so many factors for bard, learn the rotation and priority and you'll be fine...

---

I just looked up Blood for Blood. Looks like I'll have to level my Lancer to 34 to get that one? I think he's 16, so I may just fate-level him to get that unlocked asap. But since a few people in here suggest it, I take heed of the advice and will try to get that unlocked tonight. Googling the skill, it trades taking more damage for 10% increase in DPS for 20 seconds - yeah definitely worth it to me. That damage taken bit shouldn't worry a Bard because with how mobile Bards are, they should never be hit unless it's a map-wide mechanic that hits everyone regardless. I'm surprised I haven't seen this skill come up in the build suggestions I read on other sites before now.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it but search Krietor endgame bard guide. I see it recommended often elsewhere. You don't need to go full in depth with it but the first few sections should answer a lot of questions you have.

B4B and Internal Release are essential CDs for a bard.

Thanks, siverstorm :) I never saw that guide before but I will Google it right now!

EDIT: Holy crap! That guide is perfect! You are right it did answer a lot of questions for me and it's perfect in how it explains various situations endgame for rotations. Thanks again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RinchanNau

In a 4:15 test with my gear I get around 495-500 w/ no party, pots, food, or Misery's End.

654 dex, 524 acc, 580 crit, 334 det, 341 skill speed

---

Anyways just curious, it just happened that your parse ends at 4:15 or you deliberately selected that time. if yes, any reasons?

I tried a random run of 4:15 with what I have now, about 48X ish without party/pot/food/misery

599 dex, 542 acc, 641 crit, 386 det, 341 skill speed.

I'm missing a twine for my belt and the dread pants/bracelet/bow for the complete set.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faelandaea

as a healer, my weakest heal heals people for over 2000 (Physick), so it stands to reason that the balance should be that DPS have an equal amount of damage output, correct?

---

I just can not grasp why someone would think this "stands to reason". Two complete different roles. Surely the numbers can't be the same.

This is another reason why we need an ingame parser. People just don't have a clue and it's not always their fault. Would be nice if people would have a general idea about (over) healing, dps, mitigation %. I think it would be for the better in general.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RinchanNau

just happen to be able to last around that long with zero skill speed added. 4:05-4:15 range. It's pretty nice.

Interesting results. Number sounds really good if you're still missing all that gear. I feel like there should be a larger gap between our numbers. Maybe you're slightly better. Or maybe it's RNG. I have also noticed that sometimes I get results that are a good 20 above what I was expecting or even up to 10 below. Not sure if that's purely RNG, or if it's also just the program itself being a bit inconsistent.

I don't know if something like this helps for comparison too.

latest t10 on my main: http://i.imgur.com/C3hbOVX.png

I have other turns as well.

---

I haven't run FCoB yet with my current set nor I have been in a static for a very long already. My static broke for sometime and I have been pugging weekly here and there for T10-13 clears so I don't have consistent FCoB runs parses (nor a team that can down it as fast as your team does - faster downtimes produces higher DPS as well).

I've been running parses even right now, and yes when RNG are crazy such as 42% auto attack, 50% weaponskills, 45% simulated dots crits (says ACT) I can pull numbers like 495, but when BL doesn't even freaking proc (like 1 proc out of 10 self-refreshed BLs) I get numbers like 460-470 :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by abzoluut

I just can not grasp why someone would think this "stands to reason". Two complete different roles. Surely the numbers can't be the same.

This is another reason why we need an ingame parser. People just don't have a clue and it's not always their fault. Would be nice if people would have a general idea about (over) healing, dps, mitigation %. I think it would be for the better in general.

---

I agree and I stood corrected a couple pages ago. I have played games where healing was on par with damage and such that it all balanced out. In this game healers can definitely get more numbers than damage, so my confusion was nullified thanks to people speaking up. :)

So much crit. 44% actually seems like it's on the lower end of rng if you had that much crit. On my build w/ 620 crit I seem to get around 44-45%. The length of the encounter is a bit shorter on that fight. Depends on party config too. Mine was triple melee so I used Paeon more than usual but also received Goad at least 2 or 3 times, haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RinchanNau

So much crit. 44% actually seems like it's on the lower end of rng if you had that much crit. On my build w/ 620 crit I seem to get around 44-45%. The length of the encounter is a bit shorter on that fight. Depends on party config too. Mine was triple melee so I used Paeon more than usual but also received Goad at least 2 or 3 times, haha.

---

Yeap that's why I mentioned it wasn't really a fair comparison if we were talking about the fight itself and the DPS number, but more of showing a hand of the crit % :)

BTW yes at around 620 is 40-45% range. I was running at 641 just now as I am still missing on 3 items to hit the 699 mark, which I suspect should be typically 45-50% range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faelandaea

I stayed alive, stayed out of AoE, had the right targets, but just didn't put out the punch.

---

I did a post some time ago about something similar with me regarding this. It went as far as made me feel like utter crap that I took a two-month hiatus from FFXIV to reactivate FFXI.

I returned this past Thursday, and decided to stick to my roots as WHM. Sadly, I'm 69/75 towards completing Artemis Bow Animus, but I've already collected all 12 Atma and am on Book 2 for WHM's Thyrus.

As BRD, I did as you; attacked, stayed alive, even would be Number 3 or 4 on hate list, but apparently, I still wasn't a good enough DPS. People say we're support DPS, but at the end of the day, we're expected to exceed expectations. So yeah, sticking with my WHM.

Am I the only one that noticed OP said on normal heals , he's hitting 2K at the lowest on physick what are you like ilvl160?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Ok if any of you Great bard players can prove you get the FULL 15% Dex increase for hawks's eye then do so. I dont think you can prove it. If what you are saying was true I'd could easily do 700-800 dps some time. We ALL know thats not true. Hawk's eye has diminishing returns has you level, its great at low not so great at higher levels. You dont really get 15% dex in real damgae numbers guys, just try and see for yourself. You will not see a 15% overall damage increase, sorry charlie.

---

nobody said it is a plain 15% DPS boost but it's still a DPS boost.
no matter if it's end up being only 2% DPS boost, the one using it do 2% more than the one who doesn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZhycranaDranix

Am I the only one that noticed OP said on normal heals , he's hitting 2K at the lowest on physick what are you like ilvl160?

---

fighting Ex/coil with max echo?

dont use macros. I learned that the hard way. If u need to use it then use it for your cooldowns and separate barrage so u can surely pop that last during your opener.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Ok if any of you Great bard players can prove you get the FULL 15% Dex increase for hawks's eye then do so. I dont think you can prove it. If what you are saying was true I'd could easily do 700-800 dps some time. We ALL know thats not true. Hawk's eye has diminishing returns has you level, its great at low not so great at higher levels. You dont really get 15% dex in real damgae numbers guys, just try and see for yourself. You will not see a 15% overall damage increase, sorry charlie.

---

Hawk's Eye always gives a FULL 15% extra DEX. That's what the skills does. If you have 100, you now have 115. If you have 500, you now have 575. In both cases, it's a 15% increase in DEX for that time. It would be a different story if Hawk's Eye's DEX boost was capped like how food or potions are.

I don't know of anyone who thinks that any % of DEX is worth the same % in damage output. But you will get the same damage output with 500 DEX + Hawk's Eye as you would with 575 DEX without Hawk's Eye.

Hey Faelandaea, here's some of my advice from having BRD as one of my top choice jobs.

There's mixed opinion about when you should use CD's but typically what i do when opening a fight (boss of any kind, eg.ST) is the following

Flaming arrow (just re-apply when CD resets, as and when you can)
--------------
Straight Shot (Increases Critical Hit Rate by 10%)
Bloodletter
Windbite
Venemous Bite
Heavy Shot
Foe Requiem
--------------

Now the above rotation does not include any DPS buffs and is just usually the rotation i repeat throughout most fights, spamming heavy shot to try get a Crit Straight Shot in between re-applying my DoT's.

The most important thing for me when using DPS buffs is about the duration of each one so when I want to spike DMG I hit the following in the exact order:
--------------------
Straight Shot (Increases Critical Hit Rate by 10%)
Hawk Eye (Duration 20 secs)
Windbite (Duration 18 secs)
Blood for Blood (Duration 20 secs)
Venemous Bite (Duration 18 secs)
Raging Strikes (Increases DMG dealt by 20%, Duration 20 secs)
Internal Release (Crit +30%, Duration 15 secs)
Heavy Shot
Barrage (Duration 10 secs)
--------------------

I use this order because it gives the most amount DD buff duration for when I get round to Barrage and usually my CRIT modifiers are still on for this final 10 seconds so Bloodletter tends to proc quite a bit and I can spam Heavy Shot as well.

Barrage tends to crit on all 3 attacks quite regularly which is a nice 1.5k DMG, BL's do around 750-800, SS's around the same. Because the CD's have different reset timers I usually just pop them when they are back up if the fight lasts that long and it's worth it, otherwise I stick to my job and manage other things like ballad, foe, mantra, blunt arrow, repelling shot as and when needed and typically just avoiding taking any DMG.

It's great if all these DPS buffs are up and the fight goes down to the last 20% as a Misery End usually crits for a nice 900+


Don't forget your handicapped somewhat by weapon DMG and potency on actions, but spike DMG can be great when needed and you're there to support PT's a lot more than other. A Battle Voice Foe Requiem is damn helpful when you have a mage heavy DPS alliance.

I wanted to come back and thank those who gave advice on this thread. Thanks to your help and the help of some members of my FC I have brought up my numbers to par with other Bards wearing gear at my level.

How much dps should i be doing at i115 with HA bow? sometimes it's around 430-440 or so, but sometimes it tends to below 420. Thank you. Not sure if it's enough. Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Yeap that's why I mentioned it wasn't really a fair comparison if we were talking about the fight itself and the DPS number, but more of showing a hand of the crit % :)

BTW yes at around 620 is 40-45% range. I was running at 641 just now as I am still missing on 3 items to hit the 699 mark, which I suspect should be typically 45-50% range.

---

from fcob raid yesterday. i've been told that my crit % was 41%.

my crit is 635. :mad: (with food)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Themis

Hawk's Eye always gives a FULL 15% extra DEX. That's what the skills does. If you have 100, you now have 115. If you have 500, you now have 575. In both cases, it's a 15% increase in DEX for that time. It would be a different story if Hawk's Eye's DEX boost was capped like how food or potions are.

I don't know of anyone who thinks that any % of DEX is worth the same % in damage output. But you will get the same damage output with 500 DEX + Hawk's Eye as you would with 575 DEX without Hawk's Eye.

---

Completly disagree, thats not how it works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Completly disagree, thats not how it works.

---

If you go check your character stats before and after you use Hawk Eye you will see that is how it works, it will raise 15% dex. Also you can test it out by hitting the dummy with Hawk Eye on and off to see the difference in damage, which probably around 11-12% increase in damage.

The biggest thing about Hawk Eye is that it always line it up with Barrage and B4B if you delay B4B for couple seconds.

Hawk Eye is the probably the strongest buff for bards based on the duration and the time it available.

Try testing it again to be sure :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Completly disagree, thats not how it works.

---

You're my favorite super hero.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Completly disagree, thats not how it works.

---

And once again: I'm sorry you suck at math.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Completly disagree, thats not how it works.

---

Please enlighten us to what you believe happens when Hawk's Eye is used, you've read the tooltip and obviously have some idea that it does something else. I'm genuinely curious.

It's not even a matter of opinion at this point :P I'm so glad this was revived.

PSA:
Basic math skills are important kids. If you also struggle with concepts like percentages I highly suggest watching some math courses at khan academy or some other useful educational site.

@ OP : Please stop using Macros with your dps abilities, it severely degrades how quickly you can pump out the damage due to the built-in delay.

If you must macro, buffs only please - though getting to learn to press ALL the buttons is good practice for dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poy

If you go check your character stats before and after you use Hawk Eye you will see that is how it works, it will raise 15% dex. Also you can test it out by hitting the dummy with Hawk Eye on and off to see the difference in damage, which probably around 11-12% increase in damage.

The biggest thing about Hawk Eye is that it always line it up with Barrage and B4B if you delay B4B for couple seconds.

Hawk Eye is the probably the strongest buff for bards based on the duration and the time it available.

Try testing it again to be sure :)

---

Thanks Poy. After using Hawk's eye, Nothing happens no stat change. 0 Now, I know once upon, a time I could see my stat change but that was a long time ago. I'm not sure how Hawk eye works at highter item levels. This is a question only the devs can anwer. Thank you for your time. Good day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Thanks Poy. After using Hawk's eye, Nothing happens no stat change. 0 Now, I know once upon, a time I could see my stat change but that was a long time ago. I'm not sure how Hawk eye works at highter item levels. This is a question only the devs can anwer. Thank you for your time. Good day.

---

http://i.imgur.com/4aZITrC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Myi9A24.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Thanks Poy. After using Hawk's eye, Nothing happens no stat change. 0 Now, I know once upon, a time I could see my stat change but that was a long time ago. I'm not sure how Hawk eye works at highter item levels. This is a question only the devs can anwer. Thank you for your time. Good day.

---

It helps to actually look at the right stat.

"Truth is hard to swallow, but its okay. just use the "Always Negative" test strip. No matter what is happening in your uterus, the test will always read negative. How it works is it replaces hard to swallow truth with easy to swallow fiction." -College Humor

I have a feeling you designed this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by siverstorm

It helps to actually look at the right stat.

---

This is why your on my "Ignore list"

The developers are the ones who made the tool tip. And the rule of percentages is that the amount granted by a static percentage ie. !5%, increases as the base increases. So the higher the level you are, the greater the increase from Hawk's Eye.

At 100 Dex the cool down provides 15 Dex bonus.
At 200 Dex the cool down provides 30 Dex Bonus.
....300 Dex... 45 Bonus...

and so on.

The results of this can be verified and parsed. They can also be viewed in the character information and the tool tip also verifies this. Use the cool down to get more dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FranSeara

Thanks Poy. After using Hawk's eye, Nothing happens no stat change. 0 Now, I know once upon, a time I could see my stat change but that was a long time ago. I'm not sure how Hawk eye works at highter item levels. This is a question only the devs can anwer. Thank you for your time. Good day.

---

And once again: I'm sorry you're bad at reading numbers.

Alternately: I'm sorry your game is bugged.

Man I got much more enjoyment out of this thread than I thought possible.
10/10

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by siverstorm

Man I got much more enjoyment out of this thread than I thought possible.
10/10

---

Its like a soap opera, every time I see a new comment on this thread I feel like I should break out the popcorn.

everytime I come to the DPS section

https://i.warosu.org/data/ck/img/004...6914450714.gif

Well when I started this thread I felt like an idiot, because I completely misunderstood a LOT of stuff regarding numbers and math, because frankly I fucking SUCK at math. Some players here helped me and my Bard improved by leaps and bounds and now I actually like playing him almost as much as I like healing, which says a LOT since I am the type of player that prefers to heal and not do anything else in MMO games.

However . . . now that I have come back and read some of the replies and arguments that picked up after I got my answers and forgot about the thread . . . I don't feel like much of an idiot any more ;)

Can someone PLEASE pass me some of that popcorn?