PVP and patch 2.5

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Originally Posted by Isilwenn

Yay, new frontlines! Yay, still sync to 80! :mad:

Really. What's the use? We got great PvP gear but we can't seem to use it for proper fights.

Would it be so hard to have a dedicated frontlines instance that require 100+ morale to enter so everyone could fight with decent gear with materias and actually enjoy the hard work they put into getting said gear?

Plus, that would probly be a better experience for those who actually want to PvP because they enjoy it, not to be forced to play with glamours farmers that don't give a sh*t about what they doing as long as they get the gear they want ?

I must say this is greatly disappointing imho.

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i110 Morale gear is BiS for everyone unless you have access to i130 gear that doesn't have accuracy on it. Gear doesn't sync down, it just has caps on the secondaries. With high enough raw stats you will have 2 capped secondaries on a piece instead of the usual capped+uncapped.

Morale gear in general is almost always better because 90% of it has no accuracy or parry.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

i110 Morale gear is BiS for everyone unless you have access to i130 gear that doesn't have accuracy on it. Gear doesn't sync down, it just has caps on the secondaries. With high enough raw stats you will have 2 capped secondaries on a piece instead of the usual capped+uncapped.

Morale gear in general is almost always better because 90% of it has no accuracy or parry.

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And still, materias have no effects in frontlines. That's pretty sad, whatever BiS reason you can give ;)

"All players will receive PvP EXP and Wolf Marks, as well as Allagan tomestones of soldiery and Allagan tomestones of philosophy based on their performance"

Er... Come again?

I'll give it a shot, but something tells me I'm not really going to enjoy it.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of it is cool, but I'd much rather have new maps for the (secure) type of play style which I enjoy much more.

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Originally Posted by TetsuyaHikari

"All players will receive PvP EXP and Wolf Marks, as well as Allagan tomestones of soldiery and Allagan tomestones of philosophy based on their performance"

Er... Come again?

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Typo. It will reward poetics.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

Did they forget the healers, again ? The killing spree feature is only for DPS, like the new achievements.

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Yep, i really hope they give healers some kind of reward for this.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

Did they forget the healers, again ? The killing spree feature is only for DPS, like the new achievements.

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That is pretty weird. I haven't done enough PvP to notice (lately I seem to DC any time I try...) but do kills count (on a character basis) only on the deathblow? If everyone who's done damage in the past minute or so gets credit then it's not so bad (though perhaps would bloat people's kill counts), would only require some offensive action from healers. Killing spree/ fever for healers I suppose works like normal (more damage), perhaps they tried additional healing and it was just too much? Still, you'd think they could have added some bonus.

Ever since Wolves' Den was introduced and they gave us stats at the end of battle, I always figured there should have been achievements for Damage Dealt (which is far more fair than kill shot), Damage Taken, and HP Restored. Occupations for Frontlines (Secure) as well, that we got achievements in Frontlines for the PvE elements instead of the actual PvP element is, well, sad... Nice to see them continue to drop the ball on achievements, though I think I'm more annoyed that all the kills I've already done aren't going to count...

Anyway, are some of the new additions in (Slaughter) going to eventually be added to (Secure)? Adrenalin and the position based bonus on its build up rate are particularly nice. Really probably worth it simply because I can totally see people wasting the Limit Break in (Secure) now and blaming it on (Slaughter) being different...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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As much as I like achievements, I'm worried they may cause some unintended consequences.

Damage Dealt - Play summoner and just spread dots. You can do a lot of damage without being effective (not saying summoners are bad, just saying burst damage is huge in pvp).

Amount Healed - Spam medica & medica II the entire time. Amounted healed is a terrible measure of how good a healer is as most of that is overhealing. If you're busy spamming aoe heals you run out of mp and aren't doing important things like crowd control (sleep, stone I, blizz 2, fluid aura, etc...)

Kills - Incentive to chase down that last guy who is running around instead of staying and holding a point (in FL traditional), might cause some to be less of a team player by going for a kill instead of locking down a healer. Also huge disincentive for people to play healers (which we may see in Slaughter).

Captures - Incentive for people to leave their team and try to solo-cap points. If you only care about achievements you may even just run for enemy OP at the beginning, leaving you team down 1 as A/C.

The current achievements for wins & participation are nice in that they avoid most of these issues

yep

about the capture it's right, with this system you may play like you say because have the kill very fast will certainly lead to the win, i can imagine go zerg or be zerged directly at the start of the game.

with this system strong group will win for sure also, in the current FL you see often people feed to the end the same group too strong for them, in the new FL the strong group will be even more stronger^^

Amount Healed : it was a little the case when a group is zerged on the current FL, with a buffed enemy group, it will certainly be the case

I'm really excited about the new Mode,
but i80 cap???
That is beyond silly. Play game for pvp gear thats no good in pvp.
awesome.

I am pleasantly surprised about the changes.

Also, the i80 cap is a good thing, it makes pvp balanced instead of like the old wolves den where you couldn't even dent another player that had higher moral. PvP should be about co-ordination, skill, and strategy, not who's most geared. Plus the i80 cap lets us mix and match more pieces to tune our builds.

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Originally Posted by Logo

I'm really excited about the new Mode,
but i80 cap???
That is beyond silly. Play game for pvp gear thats no good in pvp.
awesome.

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I've said this repeatably: Depending on which class you are and which stats you want, many i100 and i110 PvP pieces are BiS because of how Morale boost and ilevelsync work.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

i110 Morale gear is BiS for everyone unless you have access to i130 gear that doesn't have accuracy on it. Gear doesn't sync down, it just has caps on the secondaries. With high enough raw stats you will have 2 capped secondaries on a piece instead of the usual capped+uncapped.

Morale gear in general is almost always better because 90% of it has no accuracy or parry.

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This is completely wrong.
The i110 PVP gear does sync like everything else.

BIS for Frontlines = any item over i80 or higher ( or i70 pvp gear) with your 2 favored secondary stats (excluding ACC).

For instance, I am a DRG, i want every piece to be Crit and Det.
If I put on a few pieces of i110 in Frontlines, I lose about 100 Crit and 70 Det, compared to my peices that all have Det and Crit.
thats a huge difference.

So unless your lucky enough to get a Wolves Den match,
most of the gear has no value except looks.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I've said this repeatably: Depending on which class you are and which stats you want, many i100 and i110 PvP pieces are BiS because of how Morale boost and ilevelsync work.

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Morale Boost only matters on the ilevel 70.

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Originally Posted by Logo

Morale Boost only matters on the ilevel 70.

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No, it works. We have tested it. We actually started looking at the morale and ilevelsyncing mechanisms when someone caught that Hellwolf Accessories were giving more Det that expected.

Hellwolf Earrings of Fending are +9 Det +17 Crit +10 Morale when worn in i80 Frontlines. If Morale had no effect this should sync down to +9 Det +14 Crit, but because of Morale it ends up syncing to +10 Det +14 Crit. That is one of Det it should not have but does. Morale first gives a bonus equal to the difference in the stat's cap between its true ilevel and its morale boosted ilevel.

The Lionsmane Cuirass is even more noticeable. It is +27 Det +26 Cit +10 Morale it syncs to +21 Det +29 Crit.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

No, it works. We have tested it. We actually started looking at the morale and ilevelsyncing mechanisms when someone caught that Hellwolf Accessories were giving more Det that expected.

Hellwolf Earrings of Fending are +9 Det +17 Crit +10 Morale when worn in i80 Frontlines. If Morale had no effect this should sync down to +9 Det +14 Crit, but because of Morale it ends up syncing to +10 Det +14 Crit. That is one of Det it should not have but does. Morale first gives a bonus equal to the difference in the stat's cap between its true ilevel and its morale boosted ilevel.

The Lionsmane Cuirass is even more noticeable. It is +27 Det +26 Cit +10 Morale it syncs to +21 Det +29 Crit.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

i110 Morale gear is BiS for everyone unless you have access to i130 gear that doesn't have accuracy on it. Gear doesn't sync down, it just has caps on the secondaries. With high enough raw stats you will have 2 capped secondaries on a piece instead of the usual capped+uncapped.

Morale gear in general is almost always better because 90% of it has no accuracy or parry.

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It seems really weird. Is it really supposed to work like that ? Do you have an interesting thread talking about that mechanic/the theorycrafting of Frontlines BiS ?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

It seems really weird. Is it really supposed to work like that ?

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What seems to occur is that Morale applies first and gives each stat a bonus equal to the difference between the stat cap of the item's base ilevel and its Morale boosted ilevel. The Rank 40 i100 gear has +10 Morale meaning that the gear boosts to i110 in pvp areas. i100 Body and Leg pieces stat caps for secondaries are +38 for most secondaries and +27 for Determination and i130's stat caps for those slots are +41 most/+29 Det. This is a difference of +3 most/+2 Det. The i110 Lionsmane Cuirass has +26 Crit/+27 Det which the Morale boosts to +29 Crit/+29 Det.

ilevelsync caps the stat bonuses granted to that of the assigned ilevel. i80's stat caps for Body and Leg pieces are +30 most/+21 Det. Since the boosted Lionsmane Cuirass is +29 Crit/+29 Det since crit is less than +30 it is untouched but Det is capped to +21.

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Do you have an interesting thread talking about that mechanic/the theorycrafting of Frontlines BiS ?

Thanks.

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This is a very outdated thread that talks about it, but I intend to put up a 2.5 "twinking" thread once the patch goes live and we know the stats of the new gear.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

ilevelsync caps the stat bonuses granted to that of the assigned ilevel. i80's stat caps for Body and Leg pieces are +30 most/+21 Det. Since the boosted Lionsmane Cuirass is +29 Crit/+29 Det since crit is less than +30 it is untouched but Det is capped to +21.

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Why the Crit is untouched when the Det on the Earrings of Fending in your first example is touched ?

Crit shouldn't be capped to 30 ?

Sorry, I really want to understand how it works exactly haha.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

Why the Crit is untouched when the Det on the Earrings of Fending in your first example is touched ?

Crit shouldn't be capped to 30 ?

Sorry, I really want to understand how it works exactly haha.

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Each slot has different caps, at i80 the caps are the following:

• Two handed Weapon: +33 Most/ +23 Det
• One handed Weapon: +23 Most/ +18 Det
• Shield: +9 Most/+5 Det
• Head: +19 Most/+13 Det
• Body: +30 Most/+21 Det
• Hands: +19 Most/+13 Det
• Waist: +14 Most/+10 Det
• Legs: +30 Most/+21 Det
• Feet: +19 Most/+13 Det
• Accessories: +14 Most/+10 Det

The Hellwolf Earrings of Fending start out a +17 Crit/+9 Det. The difference between i100 and i110 stat caps for Accessories is +2 Most/+1 Det. In PvP areas the Earrings get Morale boosted to +19 Crit/+10 Det, they are then synced down to i80 which leaves their stats at +14 Crit/+10 Det.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Each slot has different caps, at i80 the caps are the following:

• Two handed Weapon: +33 Most/ +23 Det
• One handed Weapon: +23 Most/ +18 Det
• Shield: +9 Most/+5 Det
• Head: +19 Most/+13 Det
• Body: +30 Most/+21 Det
• Hands: +19 Most/+13 Det
• Waist: +14 Most/+10 Det
• Legs: +30 Most/+21 Det
• Feet: +19 Most/+13 Det
• Accessories: +14 Most/+10 Det

The Hellwolf Earrings of Fending start out a +17 Crit/+9 Det. The difference between i100 and i110 stat caps for Accessories is +2 Most/+1 Det. In PvP areas the Earrings get Morale boosted to +19 Crit/+10 Det, they are then synced down to i80 which leaves their stats at +14 Crit/+10 Det.

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Yeah I understood that, I just don't understand why the Crit on the Lionsmane Cuirass doesn't synch at 30 instead of 29 while the cap is 30 for i80 gear. Why the Det is up to 10 from 9 for the Hellwolf Earrings of Fending when the Crit isn't up to 30 from 26 for the Lionsmane Cuirass ?

Edit : I GET IT

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What seems to occur is that Morale applies first and gives each stat a bonus equal to the difference between the stat cap of the item's base ilevel and its Morale boosted ilevel

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Thanks a lot.