Are we really the good guys?

After finishing the Shiva storyline in the main plot, we might not actually be on the right side in the story for all we know.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That's your choice, but it does go against the story and structure of the game, so perhaps you might enjoy a game that allows you to take on that role, more than one that does not. I am NOT saying you should go play something else, nor that you should modify how you play, those are your personal decisions, it's just that this game does not support players taking that role.

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The story campaign leaves little space for the design of your RP character. Or more, the story campaign is completely independent from us, and we are just a silent observer, like Chrono. Speaking Chrono, I prefer in a role-play ambivalent characters, as Magus, for example. Or David Xanathos in Disney's "Gargoyles" (an unusually adult series, just for the Disney-90s). There is no need to puke a rainbow to be a hero. Unless your name is Sailor Moon.

But but chicks dig bad guys

REMINDER THAT GAIUS VAN BAELSAR WAS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...almReborn1.png

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Originally Posted by Freyt

Terra Celes Tifa Quistis Freya Lulu Ashe.

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Terra's dad in the first half, her "kids" in the second. Her smiles are plot relevant. And she does talk.
Celes' "grandfather" is a plot point. Same as terra in other regards. Being a focal character means your voice is heard a lot. Plus you don't get to be a General by being quiet.
Tifa is ALL grins and very talkative, her "family" is Avalanche AND she lost a parent in the Nibelheim event.
Quistis is an orphan just like the other main characters, which is definitely a family issue since that fact is plot relevant. And she does smile, and she's a TEACHER, so she talks VERY often.
Freya has Sir Fratley, and again her smiles are relevant. She's the least talkative, I'll grant you, but she's not on the level of Squall or Cloud.
Lulu is Queen Expodump for a lot of things so yeah she's definitely talkative. Her "family" is her little summoner clique to the point of marrying and getting impregnated by Wakka. She does smile the least I'll grant you.
Ashe's family issues...she's royalty, and the story begins and is predicated on her wedding. Also talkative as a resistance leader and one of the actual main characters of the story. One of her first promo pictures is her with a big ol' grin.

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Lightning. While there is the family issues, she has a distinct lack of mandatory smiles.

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She doesn't smile as much, but again the times she does are relevant.

There's really two types of female characters: Those that are smiling ALL the time (Rikku, Rinoa, Selphie, Aerith, Yuffie) and those whose smiles are plot relevant (all of the above).
But still at some point they must smile and it is relevant.
Though lightning IS the biggest departure from the standard archetype as she's less talkative and less smile-y than other female protagonists...but when you realize her ENTIRE motivation is her sister...

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

On the RP angle, I treat it a lot like you're meant to treat the storyline in WoW. The people doing all the fancy things (killing bahamut and the like) are the "heroes of light". RP Backstory wise, your characters are important, helping in a battle here or there, but the main action isn't you specifically.

I'm with Razzle on the ill behaved players btw. I meet very few actually rude players. Quiet ones sure, but actually rude? Not many.



Sure we do! You just don't call it that. It's "bringing peace"



Yeah, I noticed that "help others" wasn't really much of an option in the beginning. I'm here for the money.

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Wait...another RP thing of "It wasn't you who was there, it was someone else. You're not the Warrior of Light the game says you are." ?

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Originally Posted by kyuven

OBJECTION!

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I'd toss in Faris (Legacy is a big deal in V. EVERYONE has family issues, so I can overlook that) and Agrias, but really, bar the scenes where they make sure to let us know/remind us that Faris is a woman, both of them are basically written in the "Write a man>change the gender>strong female" writing style, so I'd see how well they match up to the description of a male FF character. That said, either description really only applies best to The duteroganist couple. Cid Highwind certainly doesn't count as quiet and effeminate looking.

Oh, and as an aside, When I'm beig the worst of the worst in those Western MMOs while in character, shooting random passerby NPCs, murdering the innocents because I wasn't being paid not to, and the like, I do try to still be polite and curteous to my fellow PCs, unless we are specifically RPing. Run by someone biting off morr than they can swallow, toss out a heal, add a little damage if the combat rewards system allows it and it isn't kill stealing. With any luck they will remember that act of charity and pass it along to the next person. Maybe one day someome will step in to help me.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Words.

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Exactly. Which is another reason 13 is a little odd. Lightning's gender is mostly inconsequential to the plot (of the first game at least) and the role normally given to characters like Rinoa, Tifa, Aerith, etc. is instead given to a character that never fights in the first game and in fact spends the vast majority of it as a statue. Her relationship with Sera is important, but it feels more like she's Sera's sibling, rather than sister.
It's a good and bad thing, and given FFXV is going to have zero playable female characters...maybe it was a bad sign, or the writers just didn't get it...
I know as someone who's a fan of strong female characters in video games, FFXV isn't looking all that appealing to me. Four bros on a road trip and all that.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Exactly. Which is another reason 13 is a little odd. Lightning's gender is mostly inconsequential to the plot (of the first game at least) and the role normally given to characters like Rinoa, Tifa, Aerith, etc. is instead given to a character that never fights in the first game and in fact spends the vast majority of it as a statue. Her relationship with Sera is important, but it feels more like she's Sera's sibling, rather than sister.
It's a good and bad thing, and given FFXV is going to have zero playable female characters...maybe it was a bad sign, or the writers just didn't get it...
I know as someone who's a fan of strong female characters in video games, FFXV isn't looking all that appealing to me. Four bros on a road trip and all that.

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Maybe yaoi? I can get into that, even if they are brothers.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Women aren't allowed to have families, tongues with which to talk or lips with which to smile

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What kind of torture dungeon are you running?

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

What kind of torture dungeon are you running?

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Context. kyuven was replying to a post about how all those characters were examples of Female heroes in Final Fantasy that didn't have family as an important trait, spoke plenty, and didn't smile.

But we may be digressing from the topic.

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Originally Posted by Ahmbor

Last time a saw a fresh new ilvl 50 tank. Put numbers on each mob group and tanked them. DPS goes rage mode 'cause not big pull and said "You dogshit waste my time with your little noob pulls". We kicked the dps, i added the tank as friend after the dungeon... after two days he never logged on again. Thank you asshole dps...

(sorry for bad english)

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This story amuses me, cos i had a low level DR on my SCH, hit Darkhold, Warrior Tank says "im gonna pull big" and then pulls all the trash between the start and first boss room.
15 minutes of constant fighting as the DPS slowly whittled down the mobs .................. Would have been faster to pull individual packs, since then I'd have been able to DPS instead of panic mode Physik spam.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

The Dark Knight job seems to align with this darker tone. This is a Final Fantasy game, we are the warriors of light, aren't we? So why does it feel like we are becoming ever darker, even as the new astral era dawns?
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Um, have you ever played any of the class based FF games? The Dark Knight job has always been a symbol of fighting fire with fire, that Light and Dark does not mean good and evil, it is determined by how it is used.

as for the whole community thing, welcome to MMO's. It is not possible to have an MMO where there is not a part of the community that are a bunch of jerks. It is teh price they pay in making a massively multiplayer online game.

Also, in FFXI they have Shanoto, a "good" character for all intense and purposed but an outright, total jackwad.

Games always have two sides of each coin.

Celes final fantasy 3 snes / 6 playstation was working for the empire and so was general Leo both ended up changing as good guys end result killing Leo and well celes joins the resistance.

Cecil dark knight quote "I've worn this darkened armor for so long now, there's no mote of light left in me. Not even... in my heart" but became paladin.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

This story amuses me, cos i had a low level DR on my SCH, hit Darkhold, Warrior Tank says "im gonna pull big" and then pulls all the trash between the start and first boss room.
15 minutes of constant fighting as the DPS slowly whittled down the mobs .................. Would have been faster to pull individual packs, since then I'd have been able to DPS instead of panic mode Physik spam.

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actually this is supposed to last only 5-6 minutes, even with 2 melees. Your dps must have been terrible

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

-snip-

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I like to think the decisions i make as a player do not reflect the decisions made as a character, and i only consider the first clear of any duty "cannon" to her story (and in that cannon, rng doesn't exist. everyone gets what they want and need). while i might beat things multiple times, be an ass to a few people, and get pretty baubles while doing it; it is not my character that is doing it, it is me as the player taking advantage of the existing system using the character as an instrument. C'aeru, i like to think, would be more interested in taking a nap than running a dungeon with magical re-spawning enemies.

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we are the good guys, and we should be acting like it.

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i really never considered we as adventurers the "good guys." while we are called "warriors of light," what is that supposed to mean? is light "good" and dark "bad?" we kill primals is because they are aether vacuums that can do a lot of damage, but the only reason they are summoned is because their followers are reasonably afraid for their well-being. ascians and zodiark? the ascians claim zodiark was here first, and hydaeln is the invader, but we know too little to know who has the moral high ground (lahabrea is considered a radical amongst them, so i won't consider him a good example to go off of for how ascians are). They are our enemy because the mother crystal has chosen us to oppose them, and because of that circumstance they are a threat to our own existence. the garleans are your typical empire that has over-extended itself, but bringing order to the masses is an admirable goal (though most of eorzea dissagrees with their methods), and the eorzean city states have more problems than the empire as it is.

(oh yeah, there's also the part where "adventurer" is a PC term for "mercenary")

tl: there are no good guys, everything has its grey areas. sure something might have the moral high ground, but the winner is the one who is left after the battle.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Terra's dad in the first half, her "kids" in the second. Her smiles are plot relevant. And she does talk.
Celes' "grandfather" is a plot point. Same as terra in other regards. Being a focal character means your voice is heard a lot. Plus you don't get to be a General by being quiet.
Tifa is ALL grins and very talkative, her "family" is Avalanche AND she lost a parent in the Nibelheim event.
Quistis is an orphan just like the other main characters, which is definitely a family issue since that fact is plot relevant. And she does smile, and she's a TEACHER, so she talks VERY often.
Freya has Sir Fratley, and again her smiles are relevant. She's the least talkative, I'll grant you, but she's not on the level of Squall or Cloud.Lulu is Queen Expodump for a lot of things so yeah she's definitely talkative. Her "family" is her little summoner clique to the point of marrying and getting impregnated by Wakka. She does smile the least I'll grant you.
Ashe's family issues...she's royalty, and the story begins and is predicated on her wedding. Also talkative as a resistance leader and one of the actual main characters of the story. One of her first promo pictures is her with a big ol' grin.

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I'll give you Ashe. Freya isn't related to Fratley and he certainly isn't family. He's a boyfriend. Lulu is somewhat talkative but not because she chooses to be, but because she feels the need to inform the fools around her before they go and ruin everything she's worked for. Tifa's family being Avalanche is semantics on your original argument and so I can't recognize that seriously. She has SOME fun, but Aeris smiles more and Yuffie is the fun one. Tifa isn't a buzz kill but she hardly contributes to most of the actionable dialogue.

And Quistis I'm just going to have to flat out deny your reasoning. The furthest back you see in any flash backs, Quistis is an orphan, meaning her family doesn't exist in FF8. In fact the only one of the orphan's who has family that exists is Squall. She smiles, but it's not as if smiling once or twice is fuel for your argument, you were talking about characters like Vanille who are all smiles. And as for her talking a lot, she talks in class, because it's her job. Beyond that she's very quiet, and the game makes this a point during your rendezvous with her in the training grounds. In fact this is when she tells you that she was fired from her job which is why she became a member of SeeD in the first place, because she lacked leadership qualities. She was only a teacher for a year, and felt she couldn't connect with her students at all.

And then the game forgets Quistis most of the time. Her smile doesn't become some sort of plot point. All of her laughs feel somewhat forced, like she's trying to live through her problems.


To be honest I've not played much of 6. I mentioned those characters based on all I've seen from 6 and other things, so I have no right to argue them.

The females in Final Fantasy games tend to follow a maiden, matron, crone set up. the young fun one, the love intrest, and the reliable one. Tifa and Aeris flip off depending on which scene or personality aspect you want to examine.

I'd dissagree with you and point out that being an orphan means Quistis is without family. Given her young age of orphanhood, I'd say the orpanage is her family. I do however agree with the rest of the argument against her, and add that, like Faris, her family revelation isn't important because it puts her on par with the rast of the cast in her game.

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Originally Posted by godwin

The last one standing gets to decide on that. Winners write the history books

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"Justice always win." Of course it does, the side that win get to decide what is justice" :p

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

"Justice always win." Of course it does, the side that win get to decide what is justice" :p

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Or, keeping with the subject of Final Fantasy. "Right and wrong aren't what seperate us and our enemies. It is our different standoints, our perspectives that separate us." - Squall Leonhart

Course, as a Mercenary, that is a very convenient way of looking at morality, seeing as I imagine Norg would be a little upset if they limited their potential clientel to people they decided were morally righteous.

Here is my answer:
Be it Warrior of light or not, till the end of an era, we are all Human. And being a Human, one simply can not escape the evil grasp within..

I'd like to see a dungeon where one of the boss fights is literally us fighting our own inner darkness, just so I can then say in threads like this "I punched out my own inner darkness. Pretty sure that makes me a good guy."

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So there we are, Hydaelyn imbues us with the power of a warrior of light, we are Eorzeas champions and yet...are we?

Wherever I look, all I see are players more interested in raiding and farming gear than in being civil.

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While I agree with you that there are a lot of jerks in the playerbase, we really shouldn't confuse the character (the Warrior of Light that goes through the main story quest) with the player (the person behind the keyboard). I mean, some games have options for you to make your character act like a complete asshole. Does that make you one in real life? I really don't think that SE's script (which I really do love btw, don't get me wrong) should necessarily impact my behavior as a player. I am not the Warrior of Light. My character is.

Does this mean that I think people don't have to be nice to one another? Of course not. It'd be great if there weren't so many people that, cloaked behind the anonymity of the internet, feel like they can treat other people like utter crap with no consequences whatsoever. But we should be nice to each other because it's the right way to treat other people rather than because the main story quest of a fantasy game tells us to.

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Originally Posted by DarkStar

I'd like to see a dungeon where one of the boss fights is literally us fighting our own inner darkness, just so I can then say in threads like this "I punched out my own inner darkness. Pretty sure that makes me a good guy."

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"Sheath your Sword."

Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all.

Pray for peace, prepare for war.

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Originally Posted by DarkStar

I'd like to see a dungeon where one of the boss fights is literally us fighting our own inner darkness, just so I can then say in threads like this "I punched out my own inner darkness. Pretty sure that makes me a good guy."

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"Hurry up and speed run punching my inner demons so I can get my 40 poetics plz"

I thought this thread was going to be about the recent story quests having the protagonist as a moron who never thinks before acting. It's been getting worse recently. Why do people still consider this "warrior or light" a person more honorable than Raubahn when all this person does is follow orders like an idiot? Why does the protagonist KILL Ramuh? TWICE? (counting extreme mode)

But I digress. It's just lazy writing to make up for this game's senseless content, really.

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Originally Posted by SekhmetM

I thought this thread was going to be about the recent story quests having the protagonist as a moron who never thinks before acting. It's been getting worse recently. Why do people still consider this "warrior or light" a person more honorable than Raubahn when all this person does is follow orders like an idiot? Why does the protagonist KILL Ramuh? TWICE? (counting extreme mode)

But I digress. It's just lazy writing to make up for this game's senseless content, really.

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To be fair...we did not really KILL Ramuh....He challenged us to a fight, he WANTED a serious battle. He wanted us to prove ourselves worthy of changing the world by defeating him in battle. So he expected to either lose or to kill us and afterwords he was even happy about the outcome and impressed with us. he returned to the aether, but he is not dead.

Not to mention Ramuh HAD to be beaten or his presence alone would have kept consuming aether.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Not to mention Ramuh HAD to be beaten or his presence alone would have kept consuming aether.

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That to XD.

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Originally Posted by Korilynn

Wait...another RP thing of "It wasn't you who was there, it was someone else. You're not the Warrior of Light the game says you are." ?

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Unless you can somehow justify how every single one of us killed ultima, then yes, another one of those.

If you RP, and you want to RP that you are the savior of Eorzea, go for it. Just don't be bent if other people aren't interested in your storylines. We could have all participated in the grand companies military operations against Garlean forces, but we can't all have been the one to kill Gaius.

If you don't RP, then you shouldn't care either way. The storyline is your storyline and other adventurers are the bit characters in it.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Unless you can somehow justify how every single one of us killed ultima, then yes, another one of those.

If you RP, and you want to RP that you are the savior of Eorzea, go for it. Just don't be bent if other people aren't interested in your storylines. We could have all participated in the grand companies military operations against Garlean forces, but we can't all have been the one to kill Gaius.

If you don't RP, then you shouldn't care either way. The storyline is your storyline and other adventurers are the bit characters in it.

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I know all that. I do RP. I just like to actually once be able to RP what the storyline says my character is...A warrior of light.

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Originally Posted by Korilynn

I know all that. I do RP. I just like to actually once be able to RP what the storyline says my character is...A warrior of light.

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I'm positive that I'm misunderstanding you so I'm apologizing now. I wanted to clarify where you were coming from, so bear with me please.

Warrior of light is just a name given the heroes blessed by Hydaelyn that protect the city-states. Originally given to those that fought at Carteneau, but the definition was extended in ARR. I don't think anything, lore wise, would stop you from being able to RP as one with any issue.

They do show a lot of us flying around the crystal and it sounds like even the echo isn't necessarily unique to Minfilia and the storyline hero. So those all seem like fine things as well. Have you had people giving you grief for it?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

We are the good guys, and we should be acting like it.

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You're not the only one who believes that. So do I.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8UUR0irCAA

What else would you expect in a weeaboo game? It attracts the type of gamers who prefer to have the l33tist " I'm gunna beeee the very best, like no one ever wassss CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK, to watch Youtube is my real test, to vote kick is my causeeeee" mentality.

It's always the snobby self proclaimed elitist that act all high and mighty without neccessarily having the skill.

I don't know, perhaps they've just watched too many episodes of Naruto and are just angry Sasuke still won't come back to the village, lol.

Joking aside, this community and also some recent MMOs/MOBAS/ect all have invented some silly rule that you need to watch a Youtube video before doing contnet, as if the Devs stated it themselves, it's quite baffling to me and I've seen really nice people get kicked out off parties just for not watching a video, while getting trashed on relentlessly.

Yet these bad attitute players are the ones rewarded?

Luckily I love Final Fantasy, and the art style in this game, otherwise I prefer Western game/MMOs soooo much more. I'm not saying they're perfect, but at least a troll can make me laugh, a bad attitute prissy pants "Did you even watch a video?" player doesn't.

Anyways, TL;DR, as a tank I've witnessed so much new player abuse, total trashing, and abusers of the vote-kick system I'm shocked that these players don't at least get punished with a suspension.