Terminology ?!?! Change 1.19

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

I can only hope less than 50% of the replys are some kind of intilectual responce rather than just nonsensical responces baces upon my rude chatter.

I emplore you, please be kind, I only state my opinion.

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I LOL'ED

You cant even spell much less demand intellectual (this is how you spell it) responSes

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Originally Posted by KitCat

The short answer is this: They held an official player poll, and the majority wanted physical levels gone because it was cumbersome and unnecessary.

Also, skill = experience.

If I have experienced at using something, can I not say I'm skillful with it? I'm not being snarky or sarcastic... I literally do not understand the terminology issue.

Skill: the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.

Experienced: 1. wise or skillful in a particular field through experience: an experienced teacher.
2.having learned through experience; taught by experience: experienced through adversity.

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I supose I can say this goes back to my FFXI days. When your main (job) gained the exp.. and your weapon gained the skill.
In this game your main (is your weapon), so i figure it should be clasified as skill.

Please read Letter from the Producer 5.

Im guessing you were not around to cast your vote...

P.S. GTFO

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Originally Posted by Thanos

I LOL'ED

You cant even spell much less demand intellectual (this is how you spell it) responSes

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When you "speak" to someone do you correct their spelling as well?

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Originally Posted by Picoman

Please read Letter from the Producer 5.

Im guessing you were not around to cast your vote...

P.S. GTFO

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How many of those people do think are still playing? I sincerely hope SE didnt act on those surveys.

P.S. I never played Grand Theft Frisky Orgy

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

I supose I can say this goes back to my FFXI days. When your main (job) gained the exp.. and your weapon gained the skill.
In this game your main (is your weapon), so i figure it should be clasified as skill.

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Haha. I do see what you mean. FFXI was the only MMO I ever really enjoyed. I love the job/subjob system more than this armory system. I enjoyed being able to equip a scythe, GS, GA, swords, axes, even clubs onto my dark knight -- and stay a dark knight. I loved how I could skill each weapon individually.

The whole physical level thing is a step backwards from that. In FFXI stats were on a per class basis, so unlike now(unless merited) I wouldn't be gimped playing warrior if I had placed stats into magic. If anything, the new revisions bring it a bit closer to how FFXI had it, so we can customize on a per class basis, rather than just some blanket customization.

I still think its a bummer that I cant use different weapons and remain the class I want to play, but that won't change. That's how XIV was built from the ground up and is the very basis of the armory system.

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

How many of those people do think are still playing? I sincerely hope SE didnt act on those surveys.

P.S. I never played Grand Theft Frisky Orgy

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Are you fucking serious? "Didn't act"? WTF do you think all this is? We would not be messing around with 'battle reform' and instead be getting awesome content if it wasn't for the results of the player's poll. Gawd. Close this BS thread.

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

How many of those people do think are still playing? I sincerely hope SE didnt act on those surveys.

P.S. I never played Grand Theft Frisky Orgy

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!!! Me neither !!!

But on a serious note I voted for this and am still around.

Skill and Experience are almost the same thing so I really don't see the problem.

Instead of becoming a Skillful Lancer you'll be a Experienced Lancer. Don't see how that changes anything let along be considered gamebreaking.

We have known about this for months now :) I'm for the term changes.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

I voted for this and am still around.

Skill and Experience are almost the same thing so I really don't see the problem.

Instead of becoming a Skillful Lancer you'll be a Experienced Lancer. Don't see how that changes anything let along be considered gamebreaking.

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Sums it up well.

Also, I voted for this and am still around as well.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

!!! Me neither !!!

But on a serious note I voted for this and am still around.

Skill and Experience are almost the same thing so I really don't see the problem.

Instead of becoming a Skillful Lancer you'll be a Experienced Lancer. Don't see how that changes anything let along be considered gamebreaking.

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The problem is... i dont feel its really me. I feel its my weapon.
Ive had a problem with the armory system ever since the game started.

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

The problem is... i dont feel its really me. I feel its my weapon.
Ive had a problem with the armory system ever since the game started.

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-End Of Thread, Good Night-

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

All they had to do was make every class have its own seperate physical level... but instead they decide to play the "etch a sketch" end of the world game.

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What you speak of sounds pretty much like what they are aiming to do... Stats for separate classes, stats depending on the level of the class?

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Originally Posted by Picoman

-End Of Thread, Good Night-

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Good night Pico...

As for the rest of us...

...all i can say is, im open to experiences... then ill decide what to do.

This still does not feel like a Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

The problem is... i dont feel its really me. I feel its my weapon.
Ive had a problem with the armory system ever since the game started.

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I also dislike the armoury system only because of the weapon locking. I can't see this game getting the 20+ jobs that XI had with each job being limited to one weapon type. Aside from that, this patch is a step in the right direction and helps me tolerate the system a tad bit more.

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Originally Posted by KitCat

Haha. I do see what you mean. FFXI was the only MMO I ever really enjoyed. I love the job/subjob system more than this armory system. I enjoyed being able to equip a scythe, GS, GA, swords, axes, even clubs onto my dark knight -- and stay a dark knight. I loved how I could skill each weapon individually.

The whole physical level thing is a step backwards from that. In FFXI stats were on a per class basis, so unlike now(unless merited) I wouldn't be gimped playing warrior if I had placed stats into magic. If anything, the new revisions bring it a bit closer to how FFXI had it, so we can customize on a per class basis, rather than just some blanket customization.

I still think its a bummer that I cant use different weapons and remain the class I want to play, but that won't change. That's how XIV was built from the ground up and is the very basis of the armory system.

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KitCat - Valefor?

Anyways, I feel you. I agree with you on the multiple weapon per class, that would be nice to see. A marauder with either a great axe, scythe etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

I also dislike the armoury system only because of the weapon locking. I can't see this game getting the 20+ jobs that XI had with each job being limited to one weapon type. Aside from that, this patch is a step in the right direction and helps me tolerate the system a tad bit more.

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That worries me as well, I really wish they would do away with the stupid armoury system and just define classes for what they are and not what they wield as a weapon. We could still be able to switch class/job when we want but it could be just like a drop down menu or something of the like.

Having 20+ jobs would be only possible if they branch multiple jobs from the same class/weapon. I just feel like the armoury system is more limiting than not as it was supposed to be and feels like it will be a hinderance later on more than it would be a game defining system.

I would much rather be able to equip the weapon I want (could still be limited to certain weapon type by class if they want) and be the class I want. Plus we could unequip the weapon to take screenshots without having to use the /display main off command...

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Originally Posted by Zion_Cross

KitCat - Valefor?

Anyways, I feel you. I agree with you on the multiple weapon per class, that would be nice to see. A marauder with either a great axe, scythe etc etc.

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Nah, Akubane - Lakshmi ^_^ Felt like starting fresh lol.

The armory system isn't without merit. Being able to customize your entire ability layout is pretty cool. I just feel like it was better on paper than in practice. To be really effective, you need certain skill sets, so people end up being similar anyway. The same thing was accomplished with the subjob system in XI. You could supplement your skillset depending on the situation. Anyway that's neither here nor there. XI was restrictive in its own ways. Needing to return to moogle to change etc.

It's a new game so a new system should be expected. I think (I'm hoping) that the new advanced job system will improve what we have now to make it not as... something. Don't really know. The jobs feel like they have no real purpose aside from being melee, ranged and magic. People are going to rage but I think some individuality will be nice.

I'm not seeing the problem here. by 1.20 we'll be allotting our own points per class win/win as far as i'm concerned, restating is a pain.

P.level just felt so pointless... i mean yaaay stats and all, but... "Alright! my class ranked up! new skillz ftw!" to "meh, new p.level, leme dump these points." Besides, high P.level breaks low level play, my Rank 1 Archer shouldn't be able to solo rank 12 marmots. and really, whats a final fantasy without exp and levels? Though i have a feeling we will see that second exp bar again soon, though this may be better placed in a Job talk thread.

I have a feeling they are going for more of a final fantasy Tactics esque job system which may require more then on class at a certain level to unlock other jobs, which means that job level will be independent of the class level, and will level alongside your class when you set that job. Which means if a job has multiple classes required to be leveled up to unlock could mean multiple weapons available for that job to use.

HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION AHEAD!

For example lets say Thief is released, and in order to take on this job you must level both GLD and PUG to level 30 and complete a quest. once the quest is done, you may now set THF as your Job while your class can be either either GLD -or- PUG enabling you to use either hand to hand, or sword weapons. of coarse in addition to any job abilities THF gives you, it would likely have an affinity for all GLD and PUG abilities.

END OF HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION, you may put down the pitchforks.

my thoughts on the matter, though a tad off topic.

tl;dr: No big. I'm coo with it, bro.

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Originally Posted by Hino

HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION AHEAD!

For example lets say Thief is released, and in order to take on this job you must level both GLD and PUG to level 30 and complete a quest. once the quest is done, you may now set THF as your Job while your class can be either either GLD -or- PUG enabling you to use either hand to hand, or sword weapons. of coarse in addition to any job abilities THF gives you, it would likely have an affinity for all GLD and PUG abilities.

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You had me at For example.. Er. I mean thief.

Hah. But seriously.. for a hypothetical that sounds like a damn cool idea. And no not because the example was my beloved thief.. Lol. I can see people complaining that you have to level so many jobs but meh.

Thanks, I'm really hoping it turns out to be something like that, or something similar, we need a deep class/job system to get this game moving.

I'm glad they're renaming it Level/Experience points. It's been like that in the other FF's and we miss that FF feel.

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Originally Posted by Roll

I'm glad they're renaming it Level/Experience points. It's been like that in the other FF's and we miss that FF feel.

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I guess your not familiar with FFXI.
Your job gained exp/lvls, while your weapon gained skill points.
So, it would make sence in this game to gain skill points since we are based off of our weapon, (armory system).
But, aparently now we will be gaining Exp and Leveling up our weapons. Changing the "Norm" for terminology.

Just doesnt sound right to me.

Granted I dont know how it will "feel" once the change happens, at this point I think its going to feel like we are all incapable of making ourself stronger so we will all be "paper characters" with a Lvl50 weapon. Instead of having two things to progress, we will only have one.
We are not familiar with the mechanics of stats for your char based off of your weapons level. But again this is all sounding meshed together.

Ranks & SP RIP

Well I couldn't pay attention to your topic because I was assaulted in the face with a barrage of poor grammar and terrible spelling mistakes... sorry. :/ The biggest ones were Sense* and Implore*, but honestly... there is an auto-spell check, use it. :P

I too was surprised at first when the poll showed that people wanted to remove physical levels, however after thinking of the idea for a while it makes since.

And since they are removing them, I'm happy they are renaming sp to exp, and rank to level. I much rather say tnl then tnr.

Ranks can now be used for Company Ranks, while Levels are used for Weapon Level. I believe that may be part of the reason they are changing that. Otherwise, i don't really mind it much, i do prefer Level/EXP.

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Originally Posted by Hino

Thanks, I'm really hoping it turns out to be something like that, or something similar, we need a deep class/job system to get this game moving.

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According to Bayohne its gonna be one class gets the job. No multi class jobs, also they will be whatever level said class is. So R50 gladiator = R50 paladin

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

Then I still want to go back to the other rant... why change terminology?

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Since you've already answered your own question in the very first post, you've made it evident for all to see that you're just here to complain, not to get answers.
Here.. I'll re-post what you quoted in your OP since you want to pretend you don't know this anymore.

"System-wise, MMORPGs are generally more complex than their offline RPG counterparts, and this is evident in the jargon they employ. In implementing the above changes in terminology, we wanted to make it so that at least the core aspects of the game can be easily grasped by anyone." - Naoki Yoshida

There's your answer as to "why." Whether you like it or not is a different matter, and you've made that quite obvious already.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

"System-wise, MMORPGs are generally more complex than their offline RPG counterparts, and this is evident in the jargon they employ. In implementing the above changes in terminology, we wanted to make it so that at least the core aspects of the game can be easily grasped by anyone." - Naoki Yoshida

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It seems to me, SE is trying to make a universal language for MMO's, instead of embracing change. They say MMOs are more complex, yet they made this decision so that MMO terms stay rigid. Their reason makes no sence, because the other main aspect of the game, the Armory system, is completely new and complicated.
Based on their trend it would be likely for them to change class back to job, since thats the social norm.
"Easily grasped by anyone", I would think coming into a new game for the first time you learn from the start the mechanics and language. Why make it so that you come into an MMO and its the same as all the rest?
These statements are why im questioning SE's decision for the alteration.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

According to Bayohne its gonna be one class gets the job. No multi class jobs, also they will be whatever level said class is. So R50 gladiator = R50 paladin

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Except the Famitsu fan translation stated there will be multi-class jobs so.....>.>

It is great thing that they re removing phys lvl. Fundamental changes of core system arent easy. Hard step, but if has to be done. I am actually glad they re going to do it.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Except the Famitsu fan translation stated there will be multi-class jobs so.....>.>

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Its not Multi-Class Jobs we want, Its Cross Class Jobs.

IE If Maruader Unlocks Dark Knight, Being able to put Dark Knight on Lancer or Gladiator and still being a Dark Knight.

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I dont expect you to understand im just ranting my furious hate.

I can only hope less than 50% of the replys are some kind of intilectual responce rather than just nonsensical responces baces upon my rude chatter.

I emplore you, please be kind, I only state my opinion.

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You say this but it's hard to believe you really want intellectual responses based on your rants throughout this thread.

But, I'll humor this thread with one.
The current system is broken, physical levels made characters god like, and thus the nerf to stats was implemented back at launch. Due to this we have suffered from under powered stats for nearly a year. The majority of players do not want this. So to rectify this problem Yoshi and his team have come up with this plan to remove physical levels. In doing so, there is no longer a need to separate experience gains into SP and EXP, and since EXP is the common, not only in MMORPGs, but in RPGs as well, it only makes sense for them to choose to keep the more widely known terms.
The same goes for Rank (more commonly associated with placement in a group) and Level (more commonly used as an experience bar of achievement).

As for point assignment, since this is a large task, and they wish to insure that things are done correctly this time, they have opted to have fixed stats till a later date when they can have an optional point assignment system that doesn't break things all over again, but at the same time doesn't penalize those that choose to sacrifice stats to achieve greater damage, accuracy or anything else they choose to boost.

As for 11's weapon proficiency system, this system had it's flaws, but also allowed each class/job to use multiple weapons. It was an interesting system, and WoW uses something similar. But, this is not FFXI, this is a new game, and instead of running to your mog house each time you would like to change your class, we have the freedom to change our class on the fly. This is one of those sacrifices, to gain one advantage, we give up another. Often times in FFXI you ended up using the same weapon as any other class due to the proficiency caps anyway. Also skilling up a weapon for mages was horrid because you were never allowed to attack with your weapon in parties.

Your ranting, is just that, you fail to give any real thought, and just put down the first thing that comes to mind.
If you don't like the direction this game is going, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but remember, you also have the choice to play another game. If you really like the game, and want to see a change, then take the time to think out a course of action, how things can change, what are the benefits, and what are the sacrifices. Then create a thread that people can get behind and support if they agree with your ideas.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Its not Multi-Class Jobs we want, Its Cross Class Jobs.

IE If Maruader Unlocks Dark Knight, Being able to put Dark Knight on Lancer or Gladiator and still being a Dark Knight.

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Semantics. Job A is unlocked by Class A and Class B. Job A is unlocked by multiple classes (multi-class) or across different classes (cross-class). Also who is this "we"? I'm personally fine however they do it.

We don't know how it will work either way. We don't know which class will govern it or if it matters at all. Jobs may in the end have their own weapons as it really doesn't matter what the original intention of the armoury system is/was.

My point is though, some jobs will have multiple class requirements.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Its not Multi-Class Jobs we want, Its Cross Class Jobs.

IE If Maruader Unlocks Dark Knight, Being able to put Dark Knight on Lancer or Gladiator and still being a Dark Knight.

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I really, really, REALLY hope the devs finally decide(or are at least trying) to go this route. Unless I'm missing some incredible detail that will make everything awesome(which is possible, but I doubt it), I'd like Jobs to function a lot like loadouts from FPS games like Battlefield and be able to switch in and out of them on whatever class(that makes sense) that I'd like.

Bay? Ruk? Anyone!?

:(

These kind of topics makes me laugh.
Before posting stop and think if that's something an idiot would do, if it is, don't do it.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

You say this but it's hard to believe you really want intellectual responses based on your rants throughout this thread.

But, I'll humor this thread with one.
The current system is broken, physical levels made characters god like, and thus the nerf to stats was implemented back at launch. Due to this we have suffered from under powered stats for nearly a year. The majority of players do not want this. So to rectify this problem Yoshi and his team have come up with this plan to remove physical levels. In doing so, there is no longer a need to separate experience gains into SP and EXP, and since EXP is the common, not only in MMORPGs, but in RPGs as well, it only makes sense for them to choose to keep the more widely known terms.
The same goes for Rank (more commonly associated with placement in a group) and Level (more commonly used as an experience bar of achievement).

As for point assignment, since this is a large task, and they wish to insure that things are done correctly this time, they have opted to have fixed stats till a later date when they can have an optional point assignment system that doesn't break things all over again, but at the same time doesn't penalize those that choose to sacrifice stats to achieve greater damage, accuracy or anything else they choose to boost.

As for 11's weapon proficiency system, this system had it's flaws, but also allowed each class/job to use multiple weapons. It was an interesting system, and WoW uses something similar. But, this is not FFXI, this is a new game, and instead of running to your mog house each time you would like to change your class, we have the freedom to change our class on the fly. This is one of those sacrifices, to gain one advantage, we give up another. Often times in FFXI you ended up using the same weapon as any other class due to the proficiency caps anyway. Also skilling up a weapon for mages was horrid because you were never allowed to attack with your weapon in parties.

Your ranting, is just that, you fail to give any real thought, and just put down the first thing that comes to mind.
If you don't like the direction this game is going, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but remember, you also have the choice to play another game. If you really like the game, and want to see a change, then take the time to think out a course of action, how things can change, what are the benefits, and what are the sacrifices. Then create a thread that people can get behind and support if they agree with your ideas.

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One could argue that if you speced mage skills you played mage. And that it was fine the way it was. Appart from the lack of benefit from the actual points i mean. I dunno i do seem to miss less with more dex and i didn't really have a problem with it. A little bit like the OP.

If it's not broken don't fix it

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Originally Posted by Train88

One could argue that if you speced mage skills you played mage. And that it was fine the way it was. Appart from the lack of benefit from the actual points i mean. I dunno i do seem to miss less with more dex and i didn't really have a problem with it. A little bit like the OP.

If it's not broken don't fix it

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The thing is though, currently the points don't really matter and it's hard for people to switch between melee and mage quickly and easily. With per-class point allocation coming later after the removal of physical level you can build each class the way you want to. The old system was broken for a number of reasons, it needed to be fixed. This is probably the best way to fix it without outright removing it.

The word is SENSE. If you dont understand something it makes no SENSE.