[dev1021]SP in non-leve parties

Main problems i see for sp grind parties is two fold. while the recruitment system while theoretical superior it is not practically superior to the old flag up and look method. both could exist and i think it would work well. Second, the re-spawn on worth while mobs is total garbage. I know a bunch of places where its possible to get 4-500 sp per mob while grouped. you just have to stand around like a bunch of idiots after you blow through them and that is not what i would qualify as good sp/h.

maybe untill SE brings in a party search option in-game
they should be part of the forum dedicated to hookin ppl up with partys
i.e
in game name
server
area
time avalible to party
just my 2 pennies worth :)

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I don't think it is that hard to achieve 10k per hour of SP gain even with the current systems?

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It's not hard. In my previous post that I quoted, I specifically stated that you can get anywhere from 10-20k/hr in a grinding party.

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Secondly, even though the fatigue system (which is not stupid) kicks in after 80k continuous SP, the reality is much different. You can pretty much gain double that much SP in a week's time even with a slight fatigue.

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Yes, I know that you can power through fatigue if you choose to. You asked me what the developers' idea of "good SP" is, and I answered it. Approximately 10k/hr for 8 hours. This is what the devs consider the point at which you've gained enough SP and should probably start using a different class. It's pretty clear that this is their intention, otherwise the math would be different.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/978...igue-Explained

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You did not also answer my question. "There are not enough ways to get good SP", what does this mean? You listed leves and grouping, what am I supposed to look at? Are you simply not agreeing with the developers idea of 'good' SP?

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I did answer your question. You can leve or you can grind, but there are fewer ways to do it to get at least 10k/hour, and more ways to screw it up (more so at later ranks. 1-30 is now a cakewalk after patch 1.15).

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That's not the point, because you don't tell me whether you mean "maximum SP in an hours worth of exping" or "maximum SP in 5 hours of exping", for example. If you want to maximize your SP gain for 5 consecutive hours a different method is used than if you want to maximize your SP gain for just one hour.

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This is why I'm framing SP gain as a derivative of time, so that how much time you spend total is irrelevant. Only the rate matters.

If you want to maximize SP gain for 5 hours, you use the exact same method for maximizing SP gain for 1 hour: get a bunch of people with leves and then link them all.

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If is efficient if you want to gain more SP and do not have to care about the time spent. It is not efficient if time is a concern. There are two methods that both achieve the best results for whatever your time resources are. If you want the most SP over-all, you should leve-share. If you want the most SP in the smallest possible timeframe, you should leve-link instead. Both ways have their pros and cons, and are efficient.

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Wasting time is not efficient. Time is always a concern. Whether you play for only 2 hours a day, or 20 hours a day, time is always a concern if you are serious about maximizing your SP gain.

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If you want the most SP in the smallest possible timeframe, you should leve-link

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Yes.

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If you want the most SP over-all, you should leve-share.

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No. If you want the most SP over-all, you leve-link. Then when you run out of leves, you find more people who do have leves they are willing to link with you. If you can't find more people with links, then you go grind some normal mobs. This strategy will gain more total SP than a party that just shares each link individually and wastes all of their guardians favor.

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Yes- but the point here is, is it good enough?

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In the games current state, yes, it's good enough. There is much more incentive to party than there is to solo. If there wasn't, you wouldn't see so many shouts for leve parties in Uldah.

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Up to rank 40 you can simply change to a higher rank camp?

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You misunderstand. I'm talking about the uselessness of increasing stars if it takes the mob's level over the dlvl 10 cap. Read my blog post that I linked earlier. It shows you how SP is calculated in this game.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=1555795

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Then why is the 30mins required to build a party a big waste of time, if you can get 5k/hr SP during it?

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The 30 minutes is a waste of time, but once you get a decent party started, it is not a waste of time.

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That's what control is all about. The developers dictate what we should be doing, and we'll end up doing it. Either directly or indirectly. In the end it's just a different approach to achieve the same end result.

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I think we're arguing for more or less similar means, it's just that you're calling it "control", and I'm calling it "freedom"


I think we may have a few misunderstandings here so I'm just going to repeat my main points about what I want from this game:

I want a variety of fun activities to do that will at least get me 10k/hour

I want those activities to involve other people and encourage player interaction, cooperation, camaraderie, and strategy

I want these activities to be explained adequately, or at least, be able to be understood in a straightforward manner.


But anyway, we're straying from what the OP is talking about:

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Originally Posted by Iron

Can you please find a way to encourage traditional partying more?

At the start of the game, we had relatively more "normal" parties for SPing, on efts, raptors ,etc. Not saying that there are none now, but with Battle Guildleves providing more SP, as well as behests being somewhat more appealing than before, there has been a lack of SP groups..

Please find the right balance between the 2 (Now I'm not saying to nerf SP from leves, just improve SP in regular groups) so that regular parties are encouraged more..

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I agree with everything Iron said.

this thread is related to here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...better-rewards.

depend on SE choice, they can either balance the way of how both grinding method worth, or they can just make leves become 72 hours per reset instead of 36 hours, so players get free day that they don't have to do leves.

However, I think it is better for SE to just make leves reset slower, because they claim that they make leves for casual players, but casual players can't fully benefit it at all now. All casual players who doesn't have 5+ hours daily can never finish all leves. (and if he has over 5+ hours per day, then he is not casual player lol)

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It's not hard. In my previous post that I quoted, I specifically stated that you can get anywhere from 10-20k/hr in a grinding party.

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So, we can quite easily get the SP the developers consider "good"- no problems there. You don't seem to agree with that, but I think the grind is just fine the way it is now.

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You can leve or you can grind, but there are fewer ways to do it to get at least 10k/hour, and more ways to screw it up (more so at later ranks. 1-30 is now a cakewalk after patch 1.15).

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But you just said it's not hard to achieve 10k per hour? I don't think so either. So you aren't really making much sense here.

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If you want to maximize SP gain for 5 hours, you use the exact same method for maximizing SP gain for 1 hour: get a bunch of people with leves and then link them all.

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I just told you that sharing leves is better for a 5 hour party than linking them; +100% SP instead of +50%. Leve-linking is detrimental for a 5 hour party because when you run out of leves, your SP gain drops. With leve-sharing, you don't run out of leves as fast, and can achieve more total SP than if you linked them. This is not rocket science and I don't understand how you have such a hard time understanding.

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Wasting time is not efficient. Time is always a concern.

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This is silly. No, time is not a concern for some people. You can't talk for everyone out there.

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No. If you want the most SP over-all, you leve-link. Then when you run out of leves, you find more people who do have leves they are willing to link with you. If you can't find more people with links, then you go grind some normal mobs. This strategy will gain more total SP than a party that just shares each link individually and wastes all of their guardians favor.

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This doesn't make any sense. You run out of leves but can still link "them" with others? If you can't find people to link with (=leech, which doesn't work according to you, so this plan is even dumber), you go get inferior SP while the people who share their leves are still getting more SP for a longer period of time, eventually passing the leve-link group by a mile.

I can see what the problem here is now. People don't grasp what is efficient and what isn't and resort to this kind of stupidity and then bitch when things don't go their way. Too bad, because the system works fine.

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the difficulty involved in "building a set-up"

In the games current state, yes, it's good enough. There is much more incentive to party than there is to solo. If there wasn't, you wouldn't see so many shouts for leve parties in Uldah.

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If you have "difficulty in building a set-up", then clearly it isn't good enough.

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You misunderstand. I'm talking about the uselessness of increasing stars if it takes the mob's level over the dlvl 10 cap. Read my blog post that I linked earlier. It shows you how SP is calculated in this game.

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Ah yes, I did. And how many people is needed to take a dlvl10 monster down effectively?

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The 30 minutes is a waste of time, but once you get a decent party started, it is not a waste of time.

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You can solo for 5k/hr during those 30 minutes. What's the waste in that?

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I think we're arguing for more or less similar means, it's just that you're calling it "control", and I'm calling it "freedom"

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Actually, you are arguing for freedom in solving the problem, while I am arguing for control to solve the problem. Both approaches can take us somewhere, but only with enough control can the developers make the progression easy to understand, expand on the parts that need expanding and create a more tighter community that isn't divided between three+ different progression methods, while S-E has to balance between them for ages to come.

You aren't all about freedom either, but there are no extremes here. Only emphasizing different sides.

What's a good spot to level/do behest at 30sh?
Now i'm going to Cedarwood, but not much people there doing behests.. any ideas?

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

So, we can quite easily get the SP the developers consider "good"- no problems there. You don't seem to agree with that, but I think the grind is just fine the way it is now.

But you just said it's not hard to achieve 10k per hour? I don't think so either. So you aren't really making much sense here.

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I don't agree that 10k-20k SP per hour is good? When did I say that? Stop responding to what you "think" I say, and respond to what I "actually" say, please. The only reason I don't "make sense" is because you are reading what I'm writing but somehow not understanding what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

We just need to make a larger variety of mobs more grindable, primarily by increasing respawn rates, mob populations, and increasing base SP to 150 for more mobs.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

What I mean is that there are not enough ways to get good SP. There are not enough options available to the player if he wants to get at least 10k/hour, and a lot of the options that are available have various negative qualities.

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If you know how to grind, you can get 10-20k/hour (easy part). But it requires a lot of knowledge about the game, which not a lot of people have (hard part).

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I just told you that sharing leves is better for a 5 hour party than linking them; +100% SP instead of +50%. Leve-linking is detrimental for a 5 hour party because when you run out of leves, your SP gain drops. With leve-sharing, you don't run out of leves as fast, and can achieve more total SP than if you linked them. This is not rocket science and I don't understand how you have such a hard time understanding.

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- and I just explained how leve-linking is better for a 5 hour party than leve-sharing. Did you read that, or just dismiss it outright because you assume you're always right?

Remember how I mentioned that I frame SP gain as a derivative of time? Remember why I did that?

When you leve-link, you get anywhere from 50-75k/hour
When you leve-share, you get anywhere from 20-30k/hour. (2.5x less)

If you leve link for 5 hours, you get 250-375k SP.
If you leve share for 5 hours, you get 100-150k SP.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

With leve-sharing, you don't run out of leves as fast

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I'm operating under the assumption that you always have leve links for the whole 5 hours. When you compare two different things, you have to keep external variables as constant as possible.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This is silly. No, time is not a concern for some people. You can't talk for everyone out there.

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Time is always a concern, even if you don't perceive it to be. If we're talking about maximizing SP, then yes, I can speak for them because if they're ignoring time, then by definition, they are not trying to maximize SP.

If I have 20 hours a day to play I'm going to use all 20 of those hours using the SP gain method that has the best SP/hr RATE.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This doesn't make any sense. You run out of leves but can still link "them" with others? If you can't find people to link with (=leech, which doesn't work according to you, so this plan is even dumber), you go get inferior SP while the people who share their leves are still getting more SP for a longer period of time, eventually passing the leve-link group by a mile.

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In my leve-link example, you do your best to get as many leves as you can. When you run out, you get more. Yes, that is leeching. I said this is the best way to get SP, not a way I agree with and like to do. This is also why I gave the secondary option of grinding mobs instead.

It seems I'm just going to have to show you through math why you're wrong, since you don't understand the concepts I'm explaining to you. I was hoping you could conceptualize the numbers without having to type them all out, but I guess not.

Scenario: Two different 8-players parties. Each player has one leve: Dunesfolk for Dinner. Both parties have 5 hours to play. Party A does the leve twice, with full links both times; Party B does the leve 8 times, sharing the leve each time and not linking. Once out of leves, each party resorts to normal mob grinding for 10kSP/hour.

Constant Variables:

- Each leve takes 10 minutes to complete.

- There are 14 dogs and 3 peistes on every leve.

- All mobs hit the dlvl 10 cap for maximum rank difference bonus.

- Both parties use as much Guardian's Favor as possible to get as much SP as they can.

SP = [base SP] x [dlvl modifier] x [party modifier] x [Guardian Aspect] x [link bonus]

SP gained on a Dunesfolk leve with 3 links:
1 dog = [125] x [3] x [0.65] x [1.5] x [2.5] = 915 SP per person.

1 peiste = [100] x [3] x [0.65] x [1.5] x [2.5] = 732 SP per person

14 dogs + 3 peistes = (915 x 14) + (732 x 3) = 15,006 SP

SP gained on a Dunesfolk leve with 0 links:
1 dog = [125] x [3] x [0.65] x [1.5] = 366 SP per person.

1 peiste = [100] x [3] x [0.65] x [1.5] = 293 SP per person

14 dogs + 3 peistes = (366 x 14) + (293 x 3) = 6003 SP

SP gained by Party A in 5 hours:
15,006 SP x 2 leves (0.33 hours) + 10,000SP/hour x 4.66 hours = 30,012 SP + 46,000 SP = 76,612 SP (20 guardians favor used)

SP gained by Party B in 5 hours:
6003 SP x 8 leves (2.66 hours) + 10,000SP/hr x 2.33 hours = 71,324 SP (80 guardians favor used - big fat waste)

Does it make sense to you now? I even used the lowest grinding SP/hr to make it more favorable for your leve-share scenario. In reality, my parties exceed 10k SP/hour grinding normal mobs. Not to mention that it's very difficult to keep all 8 leve-holders in a party for 2.66 hours.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I can see what the problem here is now. People don't grasp what is efficient and what isn't and resort to this kind of stupidity and then bitch when things don't go their way. Too bad, because the system works fine.

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It doesn't reflect well upon you if you have to resort to insults in order to prove your point. I know what's efficient and what isn't through testing, not feelings.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

If you have "difficulty in building a set-up", then clearly it isn't good enough.

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I said it was "difficult" (especially for newbies). I didn't say it was "impossible". It was difficult to build a party in FF11 too, yet that was good enough for most people.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You can solo for 5k/hr during those 30 minutes. What's the waste in that?

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If you solo for 2,500 SP, you're wasting time that you could have used making a party so that you can solo for much better SP gains as a party.

Short version of all that:

You can party....or Solo....both have their pros and cons. At least you have the choice. Be happy. If you have a hard time getting a decent grinding party together...you are doing it wrong. If you have a problem getting ridiculous amounts of Sp from party leve linking...you are doing it wrong.

Renta wins.

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Originally Posted by JakeRoon

Short version of all that:

You can party....or Solo....both have their pros and cons. At least you have the choice. Be happy. If you have a hard time getting a decent grinding party together...you are doing it wrong. If you have a problem getting ridiculous amounts of Sp from party leve linking...you are doing it wrong.

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LOL, perfect!

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Originally Posted by Gulkeeva

SE has a few choices though to change this issue...

1. Reduce leve link SP (will really make people angry currently playing)
2. Boost SP from normal mobs (makes everyone happy), probably not as happy as 1000 SP per kill with GA Dunes folk for dinner leve
3. Change GA to where, instead of a temp buff for a leve boosting SP, its changed to an 2 hour? Exp buff for normal monsters. (goes away if you start a leve/behest)
Or maybe like every 10 GA points = 1 hour, max of 4 hours.

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Or

4. Increase the mob count and timer for three-star and greater leves (double the timer to one hour, triple the number of mobs spawned), and give us the option to auto-repeat a leve from the spawned aetherial node on quest completion. It would still be limited to your normal allotment of leves per day, but you could do the same one eight times if you wished.

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Originally Posted by JakeRoon

Short version of all that:

You can party....or Solo....both have their pros and cons. At least you have the choice. Be happy. If you have a hard time getting a decent grinding party together...you are doing it wrong. If you have a problem getting ridiculous amounts of Sp from party leve linking...you are doing it wrong.

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Indeed. Thanks for the summary :)

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I don't agree that 10k-20k SP per hour is good?

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You keep saying that it is too hard to gain good SP. Then you say that getting 10k SP per hour is not hard. Either you don't think that 10k SP per hour is not good, or you keep contradicting yourself.

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If you know how to grind, you can get 10-20k/hour (easy part). But it requires a lot of knowledge about the game, which not a lot of people have (hard part).

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Finally we're getting somewhere. You want S-E to teach people how to progress, I see. You hadn't even mentioned "knowledge" before (only something about "not having enough options") so how do you think I can predict what you're trying to say? Don't talk in riddles.

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If you leve link for 5 hours, you get 250-375k SP.
If you leve share for 5 hours, you get 100-150k SP.

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And I just explained how that is not practical. Did you read that, or did you assume you are right like always?

If you leve-link for 5 hours, you run out of leves after the first hour.
If you leve-share for 5 hours, your leves last for all 5 hours.

Then you listed how you just "need to find more people to leve-link with" even if you have no leves to offer yourself (which is not feasible and should not be) or go to grind monsters instead.

So to summarize:
If you leve link for 5 hours, you get 25-30k/hr (on average) for the first hour and 10k/hr for the next 4 hours, or find people to leve link with (not practical).
If you leve share for 5 hours, you get 15-20k/hr for all 5 hours.

Guess which one is better? Yeah. Only with your theoretical assumption that does not work in practice (you even said this yourself, goddamn) is it possible to get more SP by leve linking in a long period of time. If this is what you mean by "leechers" (people who only want to leve link and become drama queens and pissed off when they can't leech players that link their leves) then the system is already perfect on that front. Share your leves or deal with the fact that it's not going to be as effective as sharing them.

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I'm operating under the assumption that you always have leve links for the whole 5 hours. When you compare two different things, you have to keep external variables as constant as possible.

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Or we could operate under the assumption that the things we compare are plausible in reality. Your assumption is as good as nothing, because in reality that kind of situation will not happen and should not happen, because that makes leve-sharing completely useless.

Your math does not work because this scenario is not realistic. In reality, you can do a lot more than 2 vs 8 leves when you share as opposed to linking. You are far more likely to get new people to join with their new leves to share if they will get something out of it as well, instead of everyone leeching off the only guy with the leves. In reality not everyone is going to hit dlvl=10, nor is the base SP going to be 125 or 100 which hurts linking more than sharing. In reality having 3 links for every leve is not realistic, which hurts linking strategy a lot. Maybe not with just 2 leves to do, but that was just an example of yours and in reality the numbers fluctuate a lot more than that.

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I said it was "difficult" (especially for newbies). I didn't say it was "impossible". It was difficult to build a party in FF11 too, yet that was good enough for most people.

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Good enough for 500k players that is. Who knows for how many it wasn't? For those who saw it as a problem, they were more likely to not play the game at all. That's what SE should care about here, because unlike in XI where to them 500k players was "good enough" the 30k here hardly is.

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If you solo for 2,500 SP, you're wasting time that you could have used making a party so that you can solo for much better SP gains as a party.

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"Because multitasking is such a hard concept." Build a party while soloing?

Woah. -Neo

In the end I wanted you to explain to me what the problem is. You took a damn long time to do that. Without knowing what the disease is, we can't solve it. It's not about me or you, we are trying to tell the representatives to tell the developers what the problem is. The more precise we do that, the better. More than anything I wanted you to explain the problem better than "hay this sux FIX IT PLZ" and now you have done that, although the details are still open.

From this clear and concrete evidence you provided (finally, geez) we can finally come into the assumption that leve-linking may be too good as opposed to sharing right now, and that leads us to the symptoms the partying system has currently.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You keep saying that it is too hard to gain good SP. Then you say that getting 10k SP per hour is not hard. Either you don't think that 10k SP per hour is not good, or you keep contradicting yourself.

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Again, you're responding to what you THINK I said, rather than what I actually said. Do you want me to quote myself again? From the very start, I said that there are not enough options available to the player. Grinding for 10k/hr minimum is easy if you know where to go, but there are not a lot of places to go, and not many people know where they are. Read the thread over again and stop putting words in my mouth.

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Only with your theoretical assumption that does not work in practice (you even said this yourself, goddamn) is it possible to get more SP by leve linking in a long period of time.

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"Theoretical assumption"? Good linkshells do this all the time. This is the reason why I used the most plausible scenario for the calculations. This is why I specifically limited the leve-link party to only 8 leves, so that they had to spend the rest of their time grinding. If I had used an implausible scenario, the numbers would be skewed even more in favor of leve-linking.

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"Because multitasking is such a hard concept." Build a party while soloing?

Woah. -Neo

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Please, enlighten me as to how you shout for a pick up party in Uldah while grinding mobs solo. Whoa. Besides, my original point was that taking 30 minutes to make a party is a waste of time. It should only take 5 minutes.

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In the end I wanted you to explain to me what the problem is. You took a damn long time to do that.

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I didn't take a long time to do that. You could have figured out my general point from reading my first 3 posts in this thread. It's not my fault that everyone else understands what I'm saying while I have to explain it to you 5 times over.

it's a serious issue and a lot of people left the game because of this

I once left the game too when the November patch came out, destroyed the party grinding tradition

and today I saw someone keep shouting in the city, finding party member for raptors grinding and he shout there all evening, no one want to join

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Originally Posted by Evangela

it's a serious issue and a lot of people left the game because of this

I once left the game too when the November patch came out, destroyed the party grinding tradition

and today I saw someone keep shouting in the city, finding party member for raptors grinding and he shout there all evening, no one want to join

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I never have much of an issue finding grinding parties, maybe that guy is just a douche so nobody wants to party with them?

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rather than what I actually said.

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"It's not hard to get 10k/hr." (Specifying what you mean? What's that? Obviously I need to just understand that you are talking about two separate things and using one, insufficient term to describe them both).

And then:

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Grinding for 10k/hr minimum is easy if you know where to go, but there are not a lot of places to go, and not many people know where they are.

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You finally got to the damn point and started using your vocabulary (words such as knowledge) as well as explaining yourself properly. Thank You.

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"Theoretical assumption"? Good linkshells do this all the time.

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So when it is practical for only a select few, the rest of the people don't matter? The average is more important than the high-end or the low-end.

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Please, enlighten me as to how you shout for a pick up party in Uldah while grinding mobs solo.

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When on a Japanese server, do what the Japanese do. And didn't everyone have a Linkshell in this game according to you?

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I didn't take a long time to do that. You could have figured out my general point from reading my first 3 posts in this thread.

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And you could have figured from these simple words

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It's not about me or you, we are trying to tell the representatives to tell the developers what the problem is.

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that (I'm about to explain this sentence to you now, listen carefully) it's not about me or anyone else. This thread exists for the sake of talking to the developers, and all I did was help you out in figuring out how to give proper feedback. From the very first reply to you, all I wanted for you is to make sense so that everyone understands, not just you and the magical "everyone else"- because while it may be oh so clear to you and "everyone else" (lol), we can't look inside your head. I'm sorry about that.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

"It's not hard to get 10k/hr." (Specifying what you mean? What's that? Obviously I need to just understand that you are talking about two separate things and using one, insufficient term to describe them both).

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So, I guess you are making me quote myself.

First post (how to grind 10k/hr, what mobs to fight, what the problem is (implied), and how to fix it easily):

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Well, you can get anywhere from 10k to almost 20k per hour grinding raptors. We just need to make a larger variety of mobs more grindable, primarily by increasing respawn rates, mob populations, and increasing base SP to 150 for more mobs.

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Second Post (reiteration of the problems):

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

There's also a limited number of good SP grind spots, as I noted in a previous post. It mainly comes down to a disturbing lack of viable choices available to a player in order to adequately gain SP via leves or regular mob grinding.

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News flash - This quote: "Grinding for 10k/hr minimum is easy if you know where to go, but there are not a lot of places to go, and not many people know where they are." Where you thanked me for "getting to the damn point", is the same point I made in the first 3 posts of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

So when it is practical for only a select few, the rest of the peolpe don't matter? The average is more important than the high-end or the low-end.

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Good players are always going to be able to advance faster than mediocre players. That's how life works.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

When on a Japanese server, do what the Japanese do. And didn't everyone have a Linkshell in this game according to you?

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The Japanese shout for parties in Uldah too. And you still haven't explained how you can magically form a pick up party while soloing since there's no one around to hear you.

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So, I guess you are making me quote myself.

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And nowhere in there do you even mention what's wrong with guildleves (yet you say that is a part of the problem). This is just one of the many times you are not explaining yourself properly.

You also do not specify what you mean by "adequately" (lump this into same category with "good" and "hard"- subjective terms that we need to dig up half of your posts to even try to decipher what you may have meant by those words at any given time) nor why it is that getting to 10k sp/hr on more monsters than raptors is not possible. You still haven't.

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Good players are always going to be able to advance faster than mediocre players. That's how life works.

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And are the Good players (those with a linkshell) the ones with the problem? No? Then why bring them up?

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The Japanese shout for parties in Uldah too. And you still haven't explained how you can magically form a pick up party while soloing since there's no one around to hear you.

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Your problem is that you don't care to specify whatever you mean at the time. "It takes 30 minutes to build a pick-up party. This is a problem." Why is it a problem? Because you can't supposedly leave Ul'dah while doing it? Isn't this a problem with the search system? Why did you even bring it up when you could have simply continued with the search system feedback? Or at least explain how the two are connected. I don't really give a damn, but hey, this thread is not for you nor me.

Now the representative would have written down "it takes 30 minutes to build a party which is a waste of time." Then he will take it to the developers, who figure out "well that's too bad, but at least he can solo during the process!". You can't simply assume that the people who work on the game are experts on knowing how people play it. Our "job" is to tell them exactly that, in a way that they understand.

Dude, this argument is getting tiresome. You don't think I've explained myself adequately, fine, whatever. I believe I have explained my position very thoroughly, in a manner that most people can grasp. Nitpicking about the interpretation of my words is irrelevant to the subject matter and this is going way too off-topic.

The OP asked about SP in non-leve parties and I gave my take on it.

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Originally Posted by Gulkeeva

The day leve's SP was boosted by leve link (think somewhere in november around the static SP changes) leve groups became "the thing" to do because you can link it, and slowly behest with that because its right there.

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Just commenting on this, leve linking and the bost in SP has been in the game since beta, not November. The adjustment to SP in nov was to the party bonus, which inadvertently affected leve SP.

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Nitpicking about the interpretation of my words is irrelevant to the subject matter

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No, as that is the most important part of the subject matter. If there is room for interpretation, you haven't explained yourself adequately.

But I did finally get the answer out of you, so that's a success for me at least.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Just commenting on this, leve linking and the bost in SP has been in the game since beta, not November. The adjustment to SP in nov was to the party bonus, which inadvertently affected leve SP.

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Actually, there was no SP boost during beta and for the first 2 months of retail. That was when the game forced you to link, and you didn't have an option.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ddd138d5ab599e

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Originally Posted by 11/25 Version Update

Leve linking players will now receive experience and skill point bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

If there is room for interpretation, you haven't explained yourself adequately.

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That's just you. Everyone else understood perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

But I did finally get the answer out of you, so that's a success for me at least.

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Or, you could have read my first 3 posts and saved us all lots of time.

i want something that make me excite and fun when play with friend not like some small quest that must do as loop forever for sp. protect city , airship battle fight , hunt pirate , teminete dragon's nest make other big quest and big trip that good sp and hard to win... even not win but still got good sp for reward i don't mind for it just need a Challenge trip more then something must do it like infinite loop

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

That's just you. Everyone else understood perfectly fine.

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Its true!

:3c

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That's just you. Everyone else understood perfectly fine.

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"Acts as if s/he'd know"

Either way your suggestions were completely wrong for the problem presented, I just needed to confirm it. We could dig even deeper into that but I'm too lazy.

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Or, you could have read my first 3 posts and saved us all lots of time.

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As mentioned previously, you presented the problem inadequately and your solution sucked. Which was even confirmed by your later posts.

Grind parties are mainly failing do to a complete lack of decent spots to go. High respawn times and the fact you have to run all over Eorzea to get the next mob as most of the time they are spread out pretty far not clustered together in camps make it very inefficient in most cases when I can go out with 3 of my LS friends and get 80/90k SP in 2 hours doing my Leves.

Like someone mentioned earlier the Raptor camp is ok for that rank range but if another party comes along there is no where near enough mobs to go around. If they lower the respawn times that would help but they still really need to look at mob placement across the board.