Yes, and it would be still ok for me if this extra vanity stuff would just cost +3m gil (but not more than 10m gil). But SE decided to put it into the cash shop instead. It would have been a good gil sink.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
Exactly how much more do you expect us to pay?
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12-01-2014, 09:58 AMFelis
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12-01-2014, 11:38 AMDevils_LawyerWhat is this "more" that your paying for that isnt a optional minion/mount?Quote:
Thread: Exactly how much more do you expect us to pay?
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12-01-2014, 12:10 PMNaelleOf all the things you listed after being intentionally coarse, the one mount and hand full of minions are the only thing that's actually exclusive to the cash shop. The halloween gear was available in game to everyone for no additional cost and the rest is speculation and assumption. If there are people willing to quit because they can't or won't afford a $5 mini, I'm sorry. Hopefully they find a game that suits their taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
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12-01-2014, 12:50 PMRufalus
But... it's just an entertainment company asking money for optional services... there are so many atrocities in the world that deserve outrage more than this.
Nobody in any of my linkshells cares that a cash shop for the game exists. We just play and enjoy. No extra charge to crafts, raids, or anything we want to do.
It makes it harder for the forums to be used to collect useful information when a vocal minority spams it with outrage threads over silly things that aren't likely to change. There are people who are happy to make purchases from the cash shop. -
12-01-2014, 01:11 PMFateAudaxIt's laughable seeing people like you coming to the forums claiming that SE is charging you extra money on-top of subscription for something that is absolutely optional. Everything that's in the cash shop are optional enhancements/add-ons. There aren't any guns pointed to your head and neither is SE telling you guys that if you don't pay for these optional extra services, your game will be unplayable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amused
The "those are game content" excuse isn't going to change the fact that cash-shop items/add-ons are indeed optional and isn't gating you from any progression nor story content. Stop being a self-entitled bunch. -
12-01-2014, 01:13 PMRiepahSame would be true if they offered BIS gear for cash, though, doesn't mean it'd be okay, does it?Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAudax
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12-01-2014, 01:18 PMFateAudaxHowever, they aren't offering items that will give players an added advantage which will affect the game's progression. No Pay-2-Win in the cash-shop. It's all vanity. Please do not argue for the sake of arguing and plucking things out of the air that SE aren't even doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riepah
Fact: There are no Pay-2-Win items in the cash-shop.
Also fact: All cash shop items are optional. -
12-01-2014, 01:22 PMRiepahSo it doesn't matter to you, only to those who care about vanity more than about BIS gear. What makes their preferences less important than yours? To somebody who cares more about vanity, mounts, minions and so on than about high end raiding, this cash shop deal is what P2W would be for you. If P2W would upset you, don't laugh at people getting upset about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAudax
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12-01-2014, 01:25 PMFateAudaxQuote:
Originally Posted by Riepah
So, just because you are a citizen of a country, paying all kinds of taxes, you can walk into a store and demand the coat that you like to be given to you free even in-real-life? -
12-01-2014, 01:27 PMPrototype909
Newsflash, SE doesn't care about you. They are making these decisions because the amount of people who are willing to pay for this kind of thing outclasses their projections of those who might leave or unsub due to this type of decision. If the Cash Shop wasn't profitable they never would've created it, much less expand its services.
This game appeals to the lowest common denominator. A vocal minority of players upset about this decision will pale in comparison to the droves who will eat this **** up from the palm of SE's hand along with those who will be upset about it but remained subbed. -
12-01-2014, 01:28 PMKIka93Because if you want that shiny thing, go ahead and spend yourself 5 bucks. Is that a wallet breaker at the end of the day? I mean seriously get over yourself. Vanity vanity vanity, it's not like this game already has plenty of that stuff as it is. When you have Hula-style leis, dresses, tuxedos, weird...mistbeard mask thing, glasses out the rear end, dying armor, glamouring over armor, do you really think that at the end of the day, all of this bitching will matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Riepah
If you are mad at paying for something like a minion when you are just as good without it, or that horsey that has no significant differences other than it's black and Sleipnir, then you my friend don't understand the fact that this crap happens in MMO's all the time. Fight another battle, because SE's not getting rid of the cash shop, I don't support their current prices, but I happily support them implementing it as a means for people to get stuff from events they'd have to wait a year to snag. I'd rather buy a ghost costume in January for 5 bucks, than wait a whole year to grab it free. Why wait that long? -
12-01-2014, 01:28 PMVorpal_Spork
I'm completely against double dipping too. I'm already paying for a subscription. If you want me to buy stuff from a cash shop then make the game free. I'm not going to pay for something twice. If I'm paying a subscription I should get the whole game.
No it doesn't. They either have a cash shop or a subscription, not both. The only other MMO I can think of that has both is Eve, and there were massive protests over it that caused the devs to abandon further development of the human avatar system that the cash shop revolved around.Quote:
Originally Posted by KIka93
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12-01-2014, 01:36 PMMeltzeiferionThere are achievements and items to collect in the game for a reason. Some players are types who progress in terms of acquiring these things rather than gear. It may be hard for some people to understand when they don't play the game in this manner, but just because it is 'only' vanity to some doesn't mean it isn't something more important to the experience for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAudax
It may not be pay to win in the sense of being able to buy the best/better gear or something, but it is something that means those who play to collect and for other reasons than gear now have to 'pay to complete'. I'm not this deep into collecting myself but I can understand that to some people this sort of thing is essentially taking the parts of the game that are meaningful to them and making them pay for it.
I think that one of the reasons a lot of people are upset with it as well is that in this case it goes a little further than just sticking random vanity pieces in the shop and appears to literally be a way to pay for an 'enhanced' experience in regards to a piece of content. For people who were really looking forward to this content, it is probably in a way comparable to something like having a dungeon in game that is freely accessible but you have to pay extra money to actually get the story elements. The content that a lot of people would consider truly important is there as you get the dungeon, the gear and etc. but people who actually care about the story aren't able to get the full experience unless they pay extra. Plenty of people wouldn't care about this but to a lot of others it would be an important missing element.
Maybe with that explanation it might be a little more understandable on why some are bothered by these sorts of things, and specifically how Eternal Bonding is apparently being handled. I'm somewhat waiting to see what the plans actually are though, and I made a decision a while back to stay till at least Gold Saucer to see how that turns out, as my interests in the game lay in side content like this over dungeons and what not. :)
Edit: As an extra note, just because a lot of other companies do it doesn't mean people have no right to complain about it here. Perhaps some of said people were here because it didn't have a cash shop. I know I actually opted not to play The Secret World when it launched because they openly planned to have sub fee + cash shop. -
12-01-2014, 01:37 PMKrrWorld of Warcraft, every Cryptic Studios game, every localized western NCSoft game, TERA at launch, et al.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorpal_Spork
Most of the 'free to play' games out there right now are basically just trial versions of the game where you have to subscribe or pay ala carte for 90% of the content. The F2P/Sub binary has been dead since DDO used a subscription/cash shop hybrid (with an extremely limited and grindy F2P option) for a temporary revival in the genre.
That said, every cash shop comes with consumer protest. It turns out that the current economic system is driven innately between a conflict where both buyers and sellers will go all-out to 'win'. Which is why I don't bother defending it; if people want items out of the cash shop it's certainly their role as buyers to demand more value for their dollar in sub fees. -
12-01-2014, 01:44 PMRiepahSounds like you're openly asking for P2W now, honestly. Just because you are a citizen of a country, paying all kinds of taxes, doesn't mean you'll get your hands on the best real-life weaponry, does it? A coat is a whole lot cheaper than a proper weapon, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAudax
Instead of making a completely pointless real life connection, just try to understand that different people play games for different reasons, and that what you consider important in a game isn't objectively more important than what another person considers important. -
12-01-2014, 01:47 PMFateAudaxI understand where you're coming from. However, I believe if SE's head is in the right place, any minions or mount which is made available through the cash-shop wouldn't be taken into account for achievements. If it's personal collection, achievement or sense of accomplishment you're talking about then I guess it's just bad luck that SE made it this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltzeiferion
Objecting the cash-shop and showing discontent is totally fine. However, there are people accusing SE for forcing them to pay extra on-top of their subscription. I'm just rebutting that in no way that SE is forcing them to pay extra on-top of their subscriptions. At the end of the day, no one can deny the fact that cash-shop items are indeed just optional extra add-ons. That's my point. -
12-01-2014, 01:50 PMFateAudaxDoesn't change the fact that cash-shop items are still optional add-ons. In no way that it is gating content progression or giving added advantage to people purchasing it. Also I would like to press the fact that in no way SE is forcing you to pay extra on top of your subscription just to play this game. This game is playable with just the base subscription.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riepah
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12-01-2014, 01:51 PMtymora
Selling things that make melding chances 100%, give better loot for X hours...those are bad and hurt the game.
Little items, meh... whatever. -
12-01-2014, 02:00 PMRiepahHigh end gear is optional too. You can play the game without it just fine, most people haven't stepped foot into Final coil, or even Second coil yet. By your logic, P2W would be perfectly fine. Nobody is forcing you to progress in content or increase your item level.Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAudax
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12-01-2014, 02:08 PMMeltzeiferion
They aren't literally forced to purchase it, sure.
However, we all pay our sub fees to play the game and enjoy it with various different play styles. They feel forced to pay as their play style is the one being monetized and thus they lose out on their enjoyment of the game unless they pay more. It is easy to say it is optional if you don't really care about collecting them or they are just some random fun for you, but what I'm trying to say is that while there are people who play this game for gear, getting rich/crafting, story or whatever else. There are also people who play this game to collect minions, to get achievements, to socialize in the world with their vanity. Many of them may enjoy earning these minions and mounts the same way others might enjoy earning better gear or maxing out their crafts. It isn't just achievements, it is collection in general.
In the past I've been ok with vanity in cash shops, but over time I've come to think about it more and as unfortunate as it is... selling vanity in these cash shops is cool for some folks, but is at the same time turning a certain play style into one you have to constantly pay extra for. It is bad luck it turned out that way, but entirely understandable to me at least why some people are disturbed by it.
Also while this isn't really related to that specifically, I would say that as customers it is to our benefit in general to get the most out of our money, just as it is to a corporations benefit to get the most out of us that they can. You have the right to support these cash shop systems, but it's a bit sad that people who are literally trying to protect their own interests/expenses vs. a company like SE are actually looked down on because they don't want to pay more. I admit that plenty of people could be arguing it better, but I'd say it's a good thing that they are protecting their interests and trying to to get as much as they feel their money (sub fee) is worth. -
12-01-2014, 02:15 PMRonyxQuote:
Originally Posted by Amused
More will come anyway. Starting with Heavensward. Expansion at the very least would be $29.99 -
12-01-2014, 03:22 PMFateAudaxYes, but fact is that there are no gears which affect stats in the cash-shop. Can we stop with that assumption and stick to the fact that the items in the cash-shop are only fluffs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Riepah
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12-01-2014, 05:05 PMFelisBut Heavensward will not be in the mog-station cash shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronyx
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12-01-2014, 07:59 PMNel_CelestineActually, it most likely will be for digital download options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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12-01-2014, 09:46 PMAldora
I just sincerely hope that when they said that the Gold and Platinum wedding would cost money, that they referred to the in-game currency rather than real money.
I wasn’t happy when they introduced the cash shop, because i felt that the game was doing well enough for it to manage without having to fall back on microtransactions (next to the server transfer and appearance/gender switching). I can understand that some people aren’t happy with the way their character looks and wanting to change their appearance or even gender for that matter.
I was glad that they had the chance to do so with the free Fantasia(’s) you got. Then, due to popular request, they added the Fantasia to the Mog Station so that people could buy up to 9 Fantasia potions for their characters.
I thought, good for them, then they can change their looks if they really don’t like what they’ve made or that wanted to change gender. Soon afterwards i saw posts that people needed even more Fantasia potions… Within the timespan of 2 months after the Fantasia’s were initially added to the Mog Station…
After seeing that, it was only a matter of time before SE would give people to buy more potions if they wanted to.
We are living in an era where the consumer is happy to “throw” money around like it’s nothing in order to obtain the things they want. For them, it’s an accepted way of obtaining the items they want. But, that doesn’t make it OK to place items which would grant you a different experience to a specific type of content by placing it behind a paywall when you are already paying a monthly subscription.
Pay-2-Win doesn’t necessarily mean that you pay real money for an item which will grant you an edge by supplying a significant stat increase that will give you the ability to “Win the game” with less effort. It also means that it will give you a benefit over others who play the game regularly by supplying an item/service which is only available to those who spend real money on top of the subscription they already pay, like the benefit of obtaining additional decorations, (dyeable) suits/dresses, a different vicar as ceremony NPC, etc which cannot be obtained in-game (through the use of Gil).
You can basically say that additional items/services you purchase with real money can be considered as Pay-2-Win whey it gives you a different (enhanced) experience doing the same content, which you can’t get with the in-game currency or by investing effort into obtaining it. -
12-01-2014, 09:53 PMKaeda_Valentyne
I think a lot of people are mad about "having" to buy something they already paid for.
For clarification the mount and minions were developed with our sub money. In order to get them you have to pay for them again.
Anything new added can be claimed as being developed with money from the cash shop the same cannot be said about the original exclusive items. -
12-01-2014, 09:58 PMrappa
do you want a mount that no affect the game? pay for it
do you want a minion? Pay for it
We are no affected.
Pay for clear a dungeon, get a final item or similar. Then i'll start to bother. -
12-01-2014, 09:59 PMDuuude007Zero. You never had to pay more than sub to get access to the same game that every other player has access to, even the ones who pay a premium for functionally lacking knick-knacks & baubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amused
If you do, that is your decision, and does not affect any of us except in that it furthers the game's development.
And for that, many of us are sure to be grateful.
So, thanks. -
12-01-2014, 10:03 PMShadray
The games a cash cow. You know what we do to cows right... Milk them. Then take the cash and invest it in new projects.
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12-01-2014, 10:13 PMSadana
I play the game in part for the fun, fluff content. I don't care about end-game raiding, personally, in contrast. So, to me, this feels similar to how others may feel if SE sold every floor of Coil and EX Primal for $5 each ($24 if you want to fight Odin.). I mean, it's not game breaking... you don't HAVE to run Coil... :/ For those who counter with the argument, "omg quitcherbitchin! This isn't important stuff!" Well, that's really a matter of personal tastes, now, isn't it? :/
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12-01-2014, 10:13 PMKodiHivaer
People must've forgotten THIS here tidal talisman that actually gave the benefit of teleporting an entire party for $43 dollars
The point I'm trying to make is that although it was limited, it was optional, and those that WANTED them for the in-game benefit got it.
It wasn't NEEDED but the OPTION was there.
People are making it seem as thought they don't have choices here. -
12-01-2014, 10:23 PMInzoumHA! Not for me, I'm Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggnook24
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12-01-2014, 10:23 PMSlurpTastyDifference is an MMO (especially this one) is catered towards endgame content. Fashion and marriage and pretty mounts and all that other fluff isn't essential to the game at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadana
As for OP stop threatening them and just quit if it's that big of an issue to you. I honestly don't see the problem in paying 10 bucks for your pixelated marriage to come with pretty things. -
12-01-2014, 10:29 PMMjollniridk, there's a difference between producing a piece of pewter jewellery, a soundtrack CD, an artbook, a plushie, etc. and adding an in-game bonus to encourage sales of that item.Quote:
Originally Posted by KodiHivaer
I mean, I wear my Tidal Talisman everywhere. *eyes sealed box on top of wardrobe in spare room* -
12-01-2014, 10:32 PMZanzhizExaverion
All these people complaining about Weddings, Triad, Glamours.
Golden Saucer will be a madhouse for about three weeks, and then it's going to be completely barren because it's going to be a mutinous grind for a chocobo barding.
Everybody knows this. You want to progress, not waste your time playing cards.
FFXI had a card game too, nobody gave a shit about that either. FFXI also had Pokemon Battles, these were dead within 5 days.
Cash shop isn't affecting how you play the game. -
12-01-2014, 10:34 PMSynestr
Sheesh. OP, you act as if the cash shop is advertised with a pop up every time you log in to the game, or periodically throughout your playtime. The only time I am reminded of the cash shop is when I am on the forums looking at the new posts. You don't like it, ok. Don't use it. Don't think about it. Just play what you pay for, the game.
It's an extra avenue for revenue, once I don't participate in. Neither do you. -
12-01-2014, 10:44 PMKodiHivaer
Sir, I will give you $50 for that limited edition tidal talisman that actually gives the in-game benefit of teleporting my party to major places
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12-01-2014, 10:53 PMYukiko
http://3m6ok5roj7q1lfxor15yilh164s.w...ck-chocobo.jpg
http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...-41.jpg?eaa32f
My guess is 30$, and yours? -
12-01-2014, 11:11 PMMjollnirIt was only from port to port, so was basically only useful if you turned up to the airship and it wasn't there. I could count the amount of times on one finger that I actually used that with a party member present. Basically was a free trip to Jeuno once a day when you were running about doing stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by KodiHivaer
I redeemed the code for it, else I'd happily send it to you. -
12-01-2014, 11:20 PMCetra
To answer the OP's question: No one expects you to purchase the items in the Cash Shop. So all SE expects, if you want to play from month to month, is your purchase of the box and a monthly subscription fee.
If you want something that is available in the Cash Shop and you don't have the money to purchase it, that's not SE's fault. It's also not a valid excuse for you to come to the forums with butt-hurt either. Grow up.