Let Players Speed Run Again

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

There's this thing in the menu, called party finder. In that party finder selection, there's something called "Slow and easy". If you all hate speed runs, maybe you could use that option. I know it's mind-blowing.

And it's not about the parties either, it's about the MECHANICS. That's what needs to stop. The ones for the bosses like Yeti are fine. But ones like doors won't open to certain mobs are dead. Having your HP dropped to 1% to make you stop is not ok.

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Maybe just make a letter to SE about ur woes of them not catering to speedrunners. Maybe if they respond back you'll get ur answer? Remember to make it sincere and veryyyyy detailed.
They wanted to stop total faceroll speed runs/ cheezing dungeons, and i believe they r doing a good job!
Just enjoy the dungeons man, no one is gonna yell at u for not capping at 6am on tuesday morning.
Y else would u speed run if its not for tome accumulation?

You assume those who don't like to speed run, can't. If I can tank as a Bard (yes, I can, I have, it's on YouTube), I most certainly can speed run. Why don't I? Because I just don't like it. Because after even forcing myself to do it for FC mates, on ALL 3 roles, I find it so mind numbingly boring. I'm not playing my class, I'm not utilizing my skills or anything. I'm just simply spamming enmity gen/aoes/aoe heals. Yawn. Add to that, whether I take 10 minutes or the entire 60, I'm still getting the same tomes you are, and would still have to run it just as much as you to cap. So what's the point? No - this isn't me saying it's ok to go super slow or "Slow and Easy", but it doesn't need to be so black and white. I'd suggest you stop seeing it so. Truthfully, I completed Lost City and Halatali HM MUCH faster Bard-tanking it, and I took each mob as it was rather than the usual SR tactics. Didn't even know if I could do it beforehand (and LC was a first run for the healer), but pulled it off. Quickly. Dealing with mechanics. AND had fun doing it. No speed running necessary.

On that note, if you find dungeon mechanics THAT boring, then maybe it's just not for you? For that reason, I'd really love SE to consider my "Expert Guildhests" idea, but that's just wishful thinking. If it's about the mechanics as you say, you DO know that people will find faster methods to do things anyways (T2 enrage, No doors/Diabolos burn, T6 burn strat, etc.), so why are you so hung up on this? 1 HP drops? Yeah, they kinda suck. But if it's all about the speed, then essentially any dungeon that teleports you to the next area = wasted time. The phases during which you can't actively damage Nael deus Darnus = wasted time. Nails/heart/plumes/spumes/arbiters/giants? Wasted time. Arguably any time between pulls and bosses is wasted time. DUNGEONS, for you apparently, are a waste of time.

If the 1 HP fall is THAT bad, Medica II/Succor before the fall, and pop an X-Potion and move on.

Regardless what speed do you want, tbh, most ppl don't know how fast could it be done.
I think a fastest clear time record (weekly reset) could be displayed when the dungeon starts ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Regardless what speed do you want, tbh, most ppl don't know how fast could it be done.
I think a fastest clear time record (weekly reset) could be displayed when the dungeon starts ^^;

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Not a bad idea, but I'm all too certain players would use that as reason to push and exclude again. Party members leaving shortly before the time record, saying "ugh, taking too long/DPS not enough/hopeless party/etc."

I mean, it'd be nice to know that I'm able to beat a previously set record, but when it becomes MANDATORY that I beat it in order to even run it, then it's a problem.

Why even give mobs hit points at all? I'm tired of these mobs that don't just die when I target them. It's hampering my enjoyment of the game! Sure there will always be the option to just run through and not target them and thus take longer to complete a dungeon, but I should have the same option to just instakill everything and sprint my way toward the rewards. After all, I'm a paying customer and my time is very valuable!

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

-snip- Having your HP dropped to 1% to make you stop is not ok. -snip-

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Oh no! I gotta wait like 5 seconds to get back to full health?! My precious time I paid for is wasted!!!

/endsarcasm

While I get you like Speed running, you are still coming off very aggressive towards other people just explaining their point of view. So since you won't listen to others I'm just going to tell you this & leave cause you obviously just want to fight with people who don't like to play the way you do:

How about you ask SE to be able to purchase your Poetics in the cash shop! There, problem solved & you don't have to bother with those horrible dungeons anymore & can stand afk in Mor Dhona with all your i120 gear!

Ultimate Speed Run= $5
:p

These dungeons aren't intended to be hard. They serve a few purposes but being hard isn't one of them. Also please remember, these dungeons aren't even intended to be challenged at ilvl 110. The gear we have removes a lot of the challenge, just like in Coil. Second Coil was hard in 90-95 gear, in item level 110? Nope. Same will happen with Final Coil, at the moment it's very challenging and meeting the DPS requirements is rather challenging in 110, in 130 that will be a different story. The same is with the dungeons. Perhaps go and challenge the dungeons in their minimum item levels and see what you think of them then?

Anyway, the purposes of the dungeons at the moment:

1) Easy content for everyone to enjoy without much difficulty
2) Level 50 starter gear for new players/alternative jobs
3) Tomestones

The only thing I dislike about the current system is that to max my Tomestones I don't really have many options. The options I have is either dungeon running or doing Frontlines, the latter of which has horrendous queue times and some changes they made that put me off playing it almost completely. Sure Final Coil gives me 30/turn but that still leaves me with a tonne to gather.

But atleast in the current system, with duty roulette I basically just have to run expert 6/7 days of the week and I will cap my tomestones.

As for the speed running aspect of them, even with the limitations they are insanely fast. If you find them too easy and too limited, push your party more. Drop shield oath/defiance, have your black mages bring ethers for triple flares, have your healers stance dance, heck, if it's so easy, don't even bring a healer, like lucrezia did with Brayflox HM to get a 7:55 speedrun of the entire thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRnkWpx8F3c There's always something you can do to make the dungeon quicker and perhaps more enjoyable to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Gemma

Oh no! I gotta wait like 5 seconds to get back to full health?! My precious time I paid for is wasted!!!

/endsarcasm

While I get you like Speed running, you are still coming off very aggressive towards other people just explaining their point of view. So since you won't listen to others I'm just going to tell you this & leave cause you obviously just want to fight with people who don't like to play the way you do:

How about you ask SE to be able to purchase your Poetics in the cash shop! There, problem solved & you don't have to bother with those horrible dungeons anymore & can stand afk in Mor Dhona with all your i120 gear!

Ultimate Speed Run= $5
:p

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Because most people think I am talking about party members being slow. I am not and have to keep repeating myself. It's the mechanics. I wouldn't even care if the option to speed run was there, but you can't the game forces you to stop at a lot of points.

There is no threat from pulling one group of mobs. it's a rush when you pull everything like in Brayflox or Haukke Manor. When I to pull only 4 mobs cause the other few won't spawn until the other dies, it's no threat = no fun.

Yeah I have to wait 5 seconds, but that adds up with all the other mechanics that force me stop.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

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Yeah, most dungeons are aren't hard, that's the problem. Their mechanics make them slow and boring. I however would like dungeons that take a little more than put "circle shape into circle shape" logic.

Just giving mobs more HP and hitting harder is not a something that challenges the entire party. It needs more battle mechanics, no mechanics that slow you down before each fight.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Just giving mobs more HP and hitting harder is not a something that challenges the entire party. It needs more battle mechanics, no mechanics that slow you down before each fight.

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Half the fun is speeding in spite of these lockouts. You can't shake a stick at 16m Sastasha when everyone else takes twice as long.

Qarn for example:
1. 3 skeletons + 2 scarabs + facer + ghost.
2. 2 bats + scarab + 2 scarabs + demonsaur: DPS opens the gate to spike trap room.
3. Jump down the hole, get a cure 3 and Medica. Don't need 100% HP to engage boss.
4. 2 scarabs + snake + warden head/hand: DPS should take point to get groped so tank can manage the other mobs.
5. Long tunnel - 2 scarab + snake + facer + 2(3?) scarab + snake: Great place for mage LB.
6. Warden head + 2 hands.
7. Boss.
8. Three raiders: must kill for key.
9. 2 mummies: must kill to open wall.
10. Mummy + 2 skeletons: must kill to open wall.
11. 4 skeletons + 1 golem.
12. Boss

SR isn't throttled until after the second boss, what with small groups in isolated rooms.

Not everything can be Brayflox.

Majority of people aren't fans of speed running. You put too much stress on a new player and most of these vets won't listen if they see a new guy who isn't up in iLV to do the spam aoe thing. It didn't use to be like that but because people like the OP forced it on others it became so bad that they've added things to slow you down..or remove things that these speed runners would ignore such as..Bee's. People who want to run through it ignore mechanics and if there happens to be a mechanic that is required to win the run they still try to push through time after time until people quit just like AK. I've had to deal with people wiping to the bee's maybe..8 / 9 times because they go "no just ignore it's how my last party did it!" So..if you don't like speedruns you really have people like yourself to blame. Forcing that kind of dungeon runs on people who are new or don't want to do it. Yes that's what PF is for..but lets be honest if you could speed run there's nothing that would restrict it to being just in party finder.

Speed runs are boring to me, they offer no fun in the game. You just go blind in both eyes or your graphics card explodes lol. Seems like the dev's agree and are going to continue to do it. If you don't like it I suggest you find another game. On the other hand, I do believe you're entitled to have fun in this game, if they happen to put up dungeons again you can speed run i'll end up doing them, I won't have fun but I will do them. Or maybe this game isn't for you and you should quit..I dunno..can't please everyone. Some things you just have to bite the bullet and take. You make this sound like it's a chore, and if something in a video game feels like a chore, equal to going to work and being handed a bunch of stuff you don't want to do..then maybe this game isn't for you. You really don't seem like you're having a fun time in this game. See you in Destiny.

If by default, DF turns into speedruns, then hey, the majority wanted to do speedruns on content that serves no purpose other than to grind through! Typically, people want to do grind content in an efficient manner so that they can get back to the fun things.

Those wanting to fight 1 mob at a time are in the minority, and unfortunately, SE catered to them. Oh well, you can have your 30min baby dungeons, I cap out doing coil/trials anyway so no need to step into it.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

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And here is the person who only read the title and opened their big mouth without reading the posts.

Alright, I'll step back in then. . . So it's mechanics more so than party/individual ability?

Tell me, what mechanics did Brayflox HM have? Because all I remember is weak, easy to dodge aoes, and an enemy gauntlet.

Let's call it like it is - you don't like dungeons, plain and simple. Or rather you ONLY like dungeons that are plain and simple? I imagine you must not like Coil either? You know, T6 and its forced stops, or T7 and its enemy waves that must be killed before the next wave can spawn. . . Sorry, it's all relative, and if you don't like dungeon mechanics, then you simply don't like dungeons.

And to Ellatrix: I cap just like you do, helping others with "baby dungeons", trials, Coil (any turn, any time), guildhests, and literally anything asked of me where and when I can, and all without the sense of superiority. Though I must say, it does look kinda nice on this high horse of yours.

Oh yeah (can't edit from my phone), I know I'm being snarky in saying so, but it could be said that speed running isn't as possible or easy as before due to the fact that these are no longer "baby" dungeons.

You might ask, "Why ThirdChild, whatever do you mean?" Well, consider the fact that our new Expert dungeons call for an average item level of 80. . . That's higher than the original Turn 4, but below (only slightly below) Turn 5.

I can't say it enough; the bar got raised. The "baby" dungeons grew up some.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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I like coil. The trash mobs die fast, and getting to the boss is quick. The boss fights have interesting mechanics. I enjoy turn 9 the most. It's not simple tank and spank. It requires a brain.

Turn 7 has pit stops but the mobs die fast so it doesn't bother me. It's quicker to clear turns than it is to clear a new dungeon. That's pretty sad to me. That something deemed easier takes longer.

I like Coil too. I actually LOVE it. It's my most favorite part of the game, so far. And Turns have always been faster to clear than dungeons. You're not there to level or gain XP, no? And the challenge lies not in the length but the MECHANICS, right? Proportionately, they're more akin to guildhests. Which again, really fuels my "Expert Guildhests" idea, especially for the types like yourself that don't mind a challenge, but don't enjoy lengthy instances.



Also, you finally said what might really be the issue here:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I like coil. The trash mobs die fast, and getting to the boss is quick. The boss fights have interesting mechanics. I enjoy turn 9 the most. It's not simple tank and spank. It requires a brain.

Turn 7 has pit stops but the mobs die fast so it doesn't bother me. It's quicker to clear turns than it is to clear a new dungeon. That's pretty sad to me. That something deemed easier takes longer.

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Honestly, that really equates to "I don't like dungeons or like lengthy instances. And anything that doesn't die quickly bores me." This isn't me putting words in your mouth, mind you, and please don't take it as such. But the feeling behind many of your posts is that you're bored or bothered by anything that makes a dungeon feel "longer", i.e. mechanics, forced stops, tougher enemies, etc. You like to raid, believe me, I can totally relate. But not everything can be like Coil, or earlier dungeons that were only able to be speedrun because not only were we already WELL overgeared - and without level syncs - but we were only getting even more overgeared then. Why do you think T4 is being farmed now?

Sadly, there are people who are just completely disinterested in raiding/Coil, because it's so "difficult". But they like dungeons. Those same people have caught up to the raiding types in gear levels and maybe skills now, so dungeons have to become more than they were. I can't stress it enough. For you, who may simply not like dungeons, yes, it's an added hassle, and I'm sorry. But not everything can be like Coil, and not everything can be, should be, or be forced to be speedrun.

Or you can just simply suck it up..nothing is worse than jumping into a dungeon just for the tank to do a surprise speed run.

Not trying to sound offensive but it sounds like you have borderline attention deficit disorder. Seconds of not attacking feeling like minutes or hours.. Anyways, speed running takes away the feeling of the instance as it was intended. I enjoy speed running myself sometimes (only pulling stuff as a tank) Mashing AoE's on large groups is not fun at all as a dps unless you're blm. I understand having the option to do it but it's never an option if it exists. New tanks are always forced to speed run and if they don't they get booted. I've seen it enough times myself and rather have monster placement as they have it now. THOUGH they could make an expert dungeon just for people that like to go fast and pull things.. but leave the dungeons as they are now.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

Majority of people aren't fans of speed running.

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the majority of players are also pretty awful

but that really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that players who wish to speed run may not speed run.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

or remove things that these speed runners would ignore such as..Bee's. People who want to run through it ignore mechanics and if there happens to be a mechanic that is required to win the run they still try to push through time after time until people quit just like AK. I've had to deal with people wiping to the bee's maybe..8 / 9 times because they go "no just ignore it's how my last party did it!" So..if you don't like speedruns you really have people like yourself to blame.

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People ignored Bees because they had the DPS to kill the boss without switching to them. What you have described is someone just being a moron. It is up to the entire party to decide the strategy a group will use, not just a very vocal and expressive player's.

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Or you can just simply suck it up..nothing is worse than jumping into a dungeon just for the tank to do a surprise speed run.

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You working hard or are you hardly working?

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

There's this thing in the menu, called party finder. In that party finder selection, there's something called "Slow and easy". If you all hate speed runs, maybe you could use that option. I know it's mind-blowing.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Same could be said for speed runs, there is option for Urgent and Serious play with high-level gear in party finder.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

It is impossible to speedrun the new dungeons. There is not even the option to do so because of how it is designed.

Your post is basically "didn't read lol, bye".

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Ellatrix, you completely missed the point Gralna made.

And you completely missed the point of the entire thread. Mechanically, the new dungeons are designed with constant road blocks which make it impossible to do any sort of real speed run.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

And here is the person who only read the title and opened their big mouth without reading the posts.

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I read your entire post which was one long crying thread about how you dislike the runs and how you dislike this part of the game. I read about your "drag points" and "absurd HP" I'm not going through pages to find your posts when you don't update your actual to clarify or change anything you decided on later in the thread, it's lazy on both our parts lil lady. I might find one or two but I'm not hunting down every nagging response you decide to have because the game isn't catered to your liking. I'm sorry you're playing a game that has parts in it you don't like and that you have no power to change it, I really am. In other words all you do is complain about how much you dislike this portion of the game..so you should quit or get use to how to do the runs. The sum of your post is "I spend too much time on this game so I need to do everything faster and i'm unhappy."

That's the point of the road blocks is to block the speed run which the OP is unhappy about but isn't going to change anyways.

There is a thing called party finder..so you want to force the people who don't want to speed run to run specifically in party finder? Because if you give the ability to speed run it will become the norm in duty finder, which is exactly what you want..you want to have the speed runs in both party finder and duty finder while the people who want to run things in another way are restricted just to party finder?

They put in effort and they are fun for a lot of people just not you...so...what are you going to do about it then since they aren't going to change it? You're more than welcome to come find me on our server I'll give you a big hug, and will make it all better.

I think speed run stressing and I prefer to go slowly. Anyway, I only follow tank, and if he wants to do big pull, I try to keep him alive. Even if after the second boss of Hullbreaker Isle, tank oblige me to use 2-3 Lustrate because he leaves running without waiting HP recover of fall.

Well, I never give commendation for tank that does speed run.

When Bray SR was a thing, when I didn't feel like doing a SR I would put up a DF for "slow and easy" and still get people who wanted to speed run. It got to the point where whenever someone would join, I'd type in party "Hello. This is not a speed run group, as it says in the description." And I would get replies like, "Oh.." and they'd leave the group.

When I would actually get someone who didn't want to speed run, we'd sit in party finder for 30 minutes or more and then they'd say, "Sorry. Looks like it's not happening. Good luck." And leave.

Then I'd decide "Screw it. I'll use DF and just say 'I don't feel well, and so I won't be speed running'." So I'd queue up, everyone would load in, I'd type that, and either one of three things would happen. 1) On rare occasion, everyone was fine with it. 2) The tank would leave without saying anything or 3) "If you don't feel good, just do a speed run so you can get this over with faster. You're a WHM. It's kind of expected that if you queue as WHM, you're prepared to do a speed run."

So yeah. I like the way dungeons are now. Sure, it's gated. But you can still make it decently quick.

I don't miss speed runs one bit. They meant we'd either lock monsters out at the boss which felt like cheating, or everyone was relegated to mashing 1-2 buttons for aoe damage.

They should just buff hunts up a little bit. Before, they were too rewarding - now they aren't rewarding enough. If they get them to a middle ground, it should be fine, and then you'd have a different way to get your tomes besides the dungeons you seem to dislike.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

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I don't force people to do speed runs. I ask if everyone is ok with a speed run before I pull mobs. Your post said it's because of people like me that hurt new players and force people to do speed runs. No, I do not. If someone is new I tell them exactly what's to be expected from each boss. I also pull less if the party asks me to.

While you may not have read the posts through out the thread from page one I made it clear it's the mechanics that annoy me, not the players.

Unfortunately, people only read title and make comments like yours instead of noticing it's not the players I am upset with, it's SEs design in slowing us down intentionally. Bosses should have the interesting mechanics to slow us down, not the trash mobs or running around in the level. Which why I like coil so much. The dungeon running isn't too long, mobs go down fast, and each boss has something interesting to do.

It's threads like these that make me wish all dungeons iLevel synced to the minimum corresponding gear drop. That way we can remove all these odd time-sink mechanics and OP can have fun trying to speed-run Snowcloak with a party maxed out at i80. Everyone wins!

Hi Jinrya,

I think a fundamental issue you're voicing (indirectly) is that for Dungeons, it's a generally boring, slow, plodding experience for you.

And if you look at it on a high-level it's true:

* Lots of Trash Mobs that give nothing worthwhile.
* Simple mechanics throughout.
* Dungeon Bosses are mildly better (they are getting more interesting in 2.4), but still not as unique as Coil or Primal Extremes.
* Dungeon Treasure Chests are generally worthless for an End Gamer (some turn-in stuff, or a rare Minion but that's so rare it's really not there).


But for many players who DON'T want the stress of End Game / Coil, Dungeons are a way for them to Adventure and get some battles in, without the extreme focus and high-level play needed in End Game.

I think a more fundamental issue is that for Moment-to-Moment Player Combat...

* Final Fantasy XIV is sorely lacking in having an Iterant Gameplay System that keeps players INTERESTED no matter the fight. Something like a True Party Combo System like Triple Techs (CHRONO TRIGGER) or Skillchains (Renkei) in Final Fantasy XI.


While this won't solve everything, having a real Party Combo System means EVERY SINGLE FIGHT (besides super low-level enemies compared to your iLevel) is a new "canvas" for you to see what interesting Party Combos you can pull off.

In Final Fantasy XI, it was a blast to join a new Party (which means players and job combinations that were different from your last one usually), and pulling off a variety of Party Combos (Skillchains) and Magic Bursting them as they pop.

It's one fundamental layer that makes even "boring / standard" fights more FUN and interesting.

You communicate with your new Party members, talking about what Party Combos they wanna try, and as you run a dungeon you time them out and execute.

I know it won't solve everything, but that key piece is sorely missing in XIV.

Besides that, I'd say if they made Dungeons more relevant (in terms of Rewards), with Branching Paths / Side Paths, Environmental Traps / Challenges, etc. that would help as well.

The sad fact is just because you don't always force people, doesn't mean others act the same way. You're upset with .S.E but it's because of the players who treated the speed runs to be so mandatory that it actually makes others not want to play is partly why they put in these potholes.

The mechanics set by S.E. are meant to be fun for everyone, at the same time it's feedback such as the constant pressure to speed run and the dislike of speed running from most of the community that brought this attention to S.E. You do say you're not mad at the players, but it trickles down to them and starts with them most of the time so you can't simply not include them.

Think of all the hateful people who just yell and scream at those who didn't perform right because:

* The tank isn't pulling enough mobs or is pulling enough but is dying due to iLV - DPS / Healers quit because they call the tank gimp since they want that tank to pull half the zone for the speed run.

* Healers who let their tanks die because they're busy spamming Holy which causes frustration with players and forces people to quit..making a dungeon raid even longer waiting for another person to pop up.

* DPS who don't know it's going to be a lock out set of mobs for the boss an instead want to take them down..the black mage gets frustrated and doesn't DPS.. or the DPS who goes ahead and pulls because the tank isn't pulling enough, brings the group back to the tank causing the white mage to just spam cure to keep him alive while the poor tank can't keep up.

we can go on for days with the actions that cause speed runs to go bad, people to get upset and eventually cause them to abandon duty or kick a player because they didn't grind Coils to get top gear so they can't get up there..or it's their secondary job that they love but they haven't had the time to gear it up to the other peoples level.

When you say speed runs..these are the things that come to mind. I've done speed runs don't get me wrong when they go flawlessly? I see my tomes go up like crazy and I'm happy but i'm not enjoying the fights. You have a mix and match of what people want. Lets start putting up ways to make what we are given something that's fun for everyone, lets change this from "I want my speed runs" to how we can adjust these runs to make them more fun to where we don't have the slow downs like you said but we don't have the speed run negativitiy..like what Kiara has said above whos is really making me miss my skillchains...now i'm thinking about my pup...kagekyio...i need a tissue.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

And you completely missed the point of the entire thread. Mechanically, the new dungeons are designed with constant road blocks which make it impossible to do any sort of real speed run.

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I have not missed the point of the overall thread, nor have I missed the point of individual posts and comments. Not like you seem to have.

Going by some of the arguments, there is not a SINGLE dungeon in this game that can be used as a speed run. Everything is gated. What, I can't log into Brayflox HM and the final boss is right in front of me? I have to kill trash first (gated), before killing the bosses (gated), before the final boss to get my rewards? Every single dungeon is gated. Some more than others. Ones where you fall to 1 health, or others, does not mean that you HAVE to take it "Slow and easy" and pull one mob at a time. You CAN still play with "Urgency" and "Serious play with high-end gear" by pulling everything you can, or not waiting for a full round of stoneskins before each pull, or not waiting for everyone to have 100% HP, MP, TP, before the next pull, or the next boss.

So, either not a single dungeon can be used as a speed run because every single dungeon is gated in ways, or, every single dungeon CAN be used as a speed run, which means running it faster than the normal, than the casuals, or whatever you want to call them. No matter what the dungeon layout is like, you CAN kill faster, pull faster, find ways to get through mechanics faster, in ways to make it a speed run, versus those players that don't want to do that, and not make it a speed run.

If the definition of speed run is ONE pull of mobs before each boss, or getting clears under 10 minutes, versus doing speed runs which means getting clears faster than other people, then I guess you are set up for disappointment regardless of how the dungeons are set up.

Wait, what, I have to run with a party (gated), but in order to do that I have to form a group first with PF (gated) or wait in line in DF (gated) ? Pffty.t... Why can't I just log in, and every time I do SE fills my bags with all the highest level equipment?

No, you've definitely missed the point of the thread, and you have no understanding of how to differentiate between what is and what is not a speed run, and what makes up an anti-SR mechanic or not.

It is still a speed run if you want it to be so. Getting from A to B is no more/less a speed run than getting from A to B to C is. Speed runs are simply getting from one point to another point as fast as possible, it does not matter if there is two points of five your still going as fast as possible between them. Those checkpoints may be content that requires you unlocking a door via a key dropped from a mob, it could be the many bosses prior to the final one or the final one itself. As long as your clearing mobs from checkpoint to checkpoint as fast as you possibly can then you are still speed running.

Having more checkpoints might slow the speed of which you do your speed run but it is still a speed run. As such the thread is misleading, people are not being stopped from speed running, they just have more checkpoints to speed run between. The definition of speed run is not pulling all the mobs in one go per se, it is actually getting from checkpoint to checkpoint as fast as possible, to do this you might pull all the mobs from checkpoint one to checkpoint two before killing them or might just run past them if you do not need something they drop but having more checkpoints does not mean it is not still a speed run.

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Originally Posted by Mykll

I have not missed the point of the overall thread, nor have I missed the point of individual posts and comments. Not like you seem to have.

Going by some of the arguments, there is not a SINGLE dungeon in this game that can be used as a speed run. Everything is gated. What, I can't log into Brayflox HM and the final boss is right in front of me? I have to kill trash first (gated), before killing the bosses (gated), before the final boss to get my rewards? Every single dungeon is gated.

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If you haven't missed the point of the thread, then you're basically just saying things for the sake of not losing an argument because you actually care enough to get the last word in an argument.

You're really just arguing semantics at this point and grasping at straws.

Yes, you can speedrun a dungeon that is gated. Siege of Niuzao Temple of World of Warcraft is a pretty prime example. But most people will tell you that they hated having it in the random dungeon queue rotation because so much of the time it took to progress through it is wasted on the same damn rp you have to watch every time you do the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

If you haven't missed the point of the thread, then you're basically just saying things for the sake of not losing an argument because you actually care enough to get the last word in an argument.

You're really just arguing semantics at this point and grasping at straws.

Yes, you can speedrun a dungeon that is gated. Siege of Niuzao Temple of World of Warcraft is a pretty prime example. But most people will tell you that they hated having it in the random dungeon queue rotation because so much of the time it took to progress through it is wasted on the same damn rp you have to watch every time you do the dungeon.

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And you just replied, to get the last word in an argument as well? This is not an argument to win or lose. It is just to give opinions.

I get the point of the thread. You cannot win ilvl 150 gear in sub-5 minute runs that you can repeatedly farm without any lockouts, weekly caps, or anything else. I get it. I also get the point of those that give a different opinion, that they do not like speedruns. Or, that you CAN still try to go as fast as you can regardless of dungeon.

I quit WoW because of the ilvl / elitist / speedrun attitudes, where WoW even enabled it. When every new dungeon was nothing but a short tunnel run of AoE zerging, and where they even neutered older dungeons to enable the same. If I wanted that I would go play a fighting game that has a hit combo counter for score.

I have my own opinion, and I am also fortunate enough to see and understand both sides of it.

Since version 2.0 was released, all dungeons have become more "gated." It is starkly apparent in this patch. All of them are just "pull 1 group" - kill - wall blows up. Move on. Or pull 1 group, key drops, open door, move on. I'm not saying these mechanics didn't exist previously. But there'd be maybe 1 or 2 doors the whole dungeon. Now, nearly every group is gated by something else.

I don't understand why SE feels the need to penalize players like this. If we have the skill/gear to pull more, let us pull more. Maybe have 1 "gate" between boss 1 and boss 2. Maybe 2. Not the 5 or whatever that we are seeing between bosses now.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I don't understand why SE feels the need to penalize players like this. If we have the skill/gear to pull more, let us pull more. Maybe have 1 "gate" between boss 1 and boss 2. Maybe 2. Not the 5 or whatever that we are seeing between bosses now.

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Wouldnt this only encourage players to force others to speed run or be kicked out? We have alot of players with different type of gameplay, sadly this means some players will not like doing certains things in certain way. Who should decide how the group progresses in the dungeon?

A simple solution would be to add a new option to the Duty Finder. This option would be a tab where players can click Speed Run or Regular Run. This way those that join a Speed Run dungeon group, has to Speed Run and vice versa. Afcourse this will attract alot of players to click the Speed Run, but atleast this means they can not complain if they are forced to spam cure II or tank alot of mobs etc.

I like these dungeon mechanics. SE, please keep them.

This thread has some elitist jerks on here... Go back to COD and WOW ffs.

I know what need for dungeons! Quiz Gates! So that way it tests our knowledge as players! And just to make it interesting make it over 10K questions about Lore from the ENTIRE SERIES. And put up like 10 of these in a dungeon... each one followed by a boss fight, then... after the boss fight, we have to do a combination of emotes to open the next gate, and then have a room with a crafting challenge so that we have to HQ an item to continue, and then have a chocobo race! winner gets the chest! and then another boss fight! with one hit kill mechanics! And then, puzzles that require certain mobs to be killed in a specific order, and then, another boss battle that asks you questions about FF lore!, and then, a drop area so you have to heal afterwards, followed by another crafting challenge. and then finally the last boss, KEFKA FROM FFVI! With Dancing Mad Remix!!!!! That will fix the speed runs!