Missed ONE >>1<< Duty Finder commence, and now I have 30 minutes penalty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maxthunder1

The fact is the current penalty system for withdrawing or not hitting commence is lazy and was not thought out very well. Here's an idea instead of the new penalize everyone, they hide the in progress bar, make in progress work as in if you check in progress you get in progress or take it out completely. There is no need for them to do what they did when all they had to do was fix the current system. I just gave 3 options that would have worked better than this pile of steaming crap they gave us.

---

What would be amazing is if the queue system would attempt to keep everyone together and just tried to find replacements for anyone that withdrew from the queue. If it is able to find replacements then those who already clicked "commence" should no longer be required to click it again. Only break up the whole group if there are no replacements available. You'd think that would cut down on a ton of issues. I mean, what's the biggest problem when someone else withdraws? The fact you have to click commence over and over and over again (still happens with ST, it happens less, but it still happens).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellisin

To stop collective pooling of strikes, as explained before.

---

Here's the thing. To stop that they could simply make it so if you withdraw in a party YOU automatically get a 30 minute penalty...or something along those lines. Basically withdrawing in parties could result in a much harsher personal penalty. There is no need to penalize the entire party.

The main reason I'm against party-wide penalties is that it DISCOURAGES play with strangers. You wont always be the party leader when you PUG so you can't be in control of when the lead puts the party in DF. If the leads a nub or simply uninformed he may not know to party check or ask if everyone is there. You can always tell the leader when you join, but some people will get mad at you. They'll think you assumed they're new or whatever. Anyway, new features should never discourage party play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

Here's the thing. To stop that they could simply make it so if you withdraw in a party YOU automatically get a 30 minute penalty...or something along those lines. Basically withdrawing in parties could result in a much harsher personal penalty. There is no need to penalize the entire party.

---

Except what on earth for. A group withdrawing from the queue is no worse than an individual that withdraws. When you have 3/3, 6/6, 14/15 and the last DPS times out of an ST queue it's just as bad as if a full group withdrew.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rysir

But how would collective pooling happen? The party leader would have to be A. One of the trolls (which then you can just leave the party without a penalty) or B. be so stupid they would invite the troll's friend when asked. You are assuming every player in the game is dumb as a rock.

---

No I'm not. I already explained before, if you cannot be bothered to actually read what's point of trying explain fir a third time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellisin

No I'm not. I already explained before, if you cannot be bothered to actually read what's point of trying explain fir a third time.

---

If you think someone is going to join a party and then sit around while everyone around them withdraws then yes you are assuming people are stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

Except what on earth for. A group withdrawing from the queue is no worse than an individual that withdraws. When you have 3/3, 6/6, 14/15 and the last DPS times out of an ST queue it's just as bad as if a full group withdrew.

---

Not exactly sure what you're getting at. Penalizing the afk guy is a lot more fair than the entire group. As I said, group wide penalties discourages play with strangers.

My idea is just an idea. There's a million more ways they could have gone about it. Including giving the party lead the penalty instead of the group, since he's the one who went ahead and put people in when they weren't ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rysir

If you think someone is going to join a party and then sit around while everyone around them withdraws then yes you are assuming people are stupid.

---

No I'm not, because that not what I was saying AT all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rysir

If you think someone is going to join a party and then sit around while everyone around them withdraws then yes you are assuming people are stupid.

---

News update:

People are stupid ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellisin

No I'm not, because that not what I was saying AT all.

---

Then what about that collective pooling crap you were on about that makes singular strikes oh so awful?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

Not exactly sure what you're getting at. Penalizing the afk guy is a lot more fair than the entire group. As I said, group wide penalties discourages play with strangers.

My idea is just an idea. There's a million more ways they could have gone about it. Including giving the party lead the penalty instead of the group, since he's the one who went ahead and put people in when they weren't ready.

---

I'm sorry, I mean if an individual withdraws from a group, I don't believe that you need to give the individual a harsher penalty than if they withdrew from an individual because it's not any worse in terms of people having to wait around.

But I do agree with you that giving the whole party a strike does discourage group play with strangers, which is not good for the game. Only the person that hit withdraw should get a penalty, whatever that penalty happens to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rysir

Then what about that collective pooling crap you were on about that makes singular strikes oh so awful?

---

What you described is NOT what I said. If you wish to misrepresent what I said. Go ahead. But don't expect me to agree with your misrepresentations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

Ah, yeah. The harsher strike idea was just my way of trying to stop people from "trading strikes". Which I honestly don't care about, but other people seem to be worried about it.

---

Not really worried. But I would say that the joint strike system is done to discourage "trading strikes".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

Fellsin sounds like he's saying it's AWFUL that a single person could be in a group of 3 and that person gets to be in a group that withdraws 6 times with nobody getting a penalty.

They're also sort of ignoring that if that group of three just queued as individuals, they'd all get to withdraw from the queue 6 total times (2 for each of them) and nobody gets a penalty. So the affect upon the queue is not any different whatsoever. But those sort of facts are apparently not all that important.

---

No not saying it AWFUL. I'm suggesting it why the present system exists.

Yes they could do it individually. Not ignoring that at all. But within a party someone can get someone to take a strike for them thus avoiding a thirdstrike themselves & lock out. But I guess ignoring facts like people do ask friends for favours like take a strike would happen if possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t-a-l-a-n-m-e-r-c-e-r

As far as i know a locked out person cannot queue in a party. They will be ineligible. So Fellisin, your argument about trolling is flawed.

---

Considering that's not even my "argument" or even close to what I was saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

I'm sorry, I mean if an individual withdraws from a group, I don't believe that you need to give the individual a harsher penalty than if they withdrew from an individual because it's not any worse in terms of people having to wait around.

But I do agree with you that giving the whole party a strike does discourage group play with strangers, which is not good for the game. Only the person that hit withdraw should get a penalty, whatever that penalty happens to be.

---

Ah, yeah. The harsher strike idea was just my way of trying to stop people from "trading strikes". Which I honestly don't care about, but other people seem to be worried about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rysir

Then what about that collective pooling crap you were on about that makes singular strikes oh so awful?

---

Fellsin sounds like he's saying it's AWFUL that a single person could be in a group of 3 and that person gets to be in a group that withdraws 6 times with nobody getting a penalty.

They're also sort of ignoring that if that group of three just queued as individuals, they'd all get to withdraw from the queue 6 total times (2 for each of them) and nobody gets a penalty. So the affect upon the queue is not any different whatsoever. But those sort of facts are apparently not all that important.

That's an insult to rocks

So let's say 8 players in a queue troll party start withdrawing or not clicking commence. If the system didn't penalize the entire party that would be 24 strikes total, 3 per party member, instead the way it works now those withdrawals are reduced to 3 right? Except there's also nothing stopping those people from simply queuing by themselves and making those 24 withdrawals happen anyway.

So really there's no reason to penalize legitimate parties for what shady people might or might not do because they'll find a way around it either way. You say the way it works now is to prevent a loophole, but the even bigger and more blatant loophole is simply to organize in FC or an LS and solo queue if someone really wanted to troll the queue.

If anything the way it currently works now exactly promotes troll parties or at least allow them to be able to exist, just like T5 skipping trolls back in the day. What's there to stop people from making PFs to intentionally lock out people for 30 min? Aside from reports for abuse and blacklisting there's nothing else really, and sure 30 min might not be as bad as getting skipped to T5, but the flawed system still allows it.

It's for the greater good lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

Fellsin sounds like he's saying it's AWFUL that a single person could be in a group of 3 and that person gets to be in a group that withdraws 6 times with nobody getting a penalty.

They're also sort of ignoring that if that group of three just queued as individuals, they'd all get to withdraw from the queue 6 total times (2 for each of them) and nobody gets a penalty. So the affect upon the queue is not any different whatsoever. But those sort of facts are apparently not all that important.

---

I get what Fellisin is saying, it's about co-ordinated partial parties who queue and go instance fishing. First 2 times it pops party member A withdraws, 3rd time it pops party member B withdraws so A won't get a penalty and so on. So if 3 people make a party and enter DF they get 6 attempts as a group to fish for the progress status they want. A group of 8 looking to enter ST on the last phase would get 16 attempts if the penalty didn't apply to the entire party.

Whilst there is scope for abuse, to me the system is working, since 2.4 my FC and I have queued for CT and ST and gotten in faster without having it constantly repop due to people withdrawing. We've been getting in on the first or second attempt each time, more often the first. As I'm often the one that forms the party and puts us in I also make sure everyone is absolutely ready and the people I party with are aware that we'd all be penalised if they did time out for any reason when the DF popped.

As far as i know a locked out person cannot queue in a party. They will be ineligible. So Fellisin, your argument about trolling is flawed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SgtPepperUK

So if 3 people make a party and enter DF they get 6 attempts as a group to fish for the progress status they want.

---

Preformed parties can't queue in progress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellisin

No not saying it AWFUL. I'm suggesting it why the present system exists.

Yes they could do it individually. Not ignoring that at all. But within a party someone can get someone to take a strike for them thus avoiding a thirdstrike themselves & lock out. But I guess ignoring facts like people do ask friends for favours like take a strike would happen if possible.

---

So a person, that has already accumulated 2 strikes, could only choose to do content in partial parties and if that person is AFK or whatever again, one of their friends could transfer their strike such that the original person doesn't get locked out? That's such a niche instance. It's very very rarely going to happen because it only works under a very specific set of circumstances. Even then, there's no extra strikes that happen since somebody else has to willingly give up one of their own strikes in order to make it work. That's a terrible justification to give everyone in the groups a strike.

So it seems players would rather control how others wish to play by crying about other players not hitting commence or timing out, so they cry to the dev's. Now i understand it is annoying but really you play your way left them play their way because look at what has happened and players are not happy with how it works. As I have said before there is no way to stop players from trolling regardless of the penalties because in the end those players will find another way to troll regardless. The only thing that this has done is penalize players who dont abuse the duty finder, yes maybe they had slowed down the trolling but it has created a new issue, from accepting than going afk to get vote kicked to trolls locking out other players so what has actually been accomplished, other than make things worse?

Im sorry but the community in 1.0 was 10 times better than the community in 2.0 maybe they need to get rid of the duty finder and all these issue will stop as well as the community getting better because now that you would have to play with players on your own server your reputation would be a major concern to them. We have party finder and that is enough we dont need cross server play as this promotes bad behavior due to not being on the same server.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barboron

but it stops a loophole in the lockout system which would be a bigger problem. OP obviously didn't think it through before posting.
Better luck next time.

---

Which loophole are you referring to? as far as a group of players swapping who withdraws, what is the point? the only reason people abused withdraw was to hit a duty in progress, and a party of any size is never put into those. Any group trying to do that is simply wasting their time, and strikes. No player should ever be penalized for another players actions, even if you chose to be associated with them. Furthermore, Ready check only makes sure that someone is there the moment you flag for the DF, people occasionally need to afk in the 5-15 minutes it takes for some duties to actually pop up, let alone those that simply get caught in a 5 minute zone load.