Lost 1 day of play.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

I pay to play a game, not to have access to servers. This is another "ToS" argument.

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You are willingfully ignoring the terms of the product you bought. I feel really sorry for your feelings. If I could I would send you the .5 dollars for your effort

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

You are willingfully ignoring the terms of the product you bought. I feel really sorry for your feelings. If I could I would send you the .5 dollars for your effort

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Nobody read the ToS, NOBODY. That's like telling someone they should have read Apple's ToS, or Facebooks Tos... It's unrealistic...

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Because I'm not interested in dealing with the law, and neither are you. I'm interested in seeing if people can come up with a good reason for not getting reimbursed, and I haven't got one yet.

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You're just throwing all your toys out of the pram and throwing a tantrum at this point failing to see things rationally, we all want to log on and play but we understand if they want to update the game there is going to be downtime, I'll take content as compensation for this downtime and go wash a window or something to make my money back.

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Nobody read the ToS, NOBODY. That's like telling someone they should have read Apple's ToS, or Facebooks Tos... It's unrealistic...

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Then they have no obligation to continue providing you with this service. You agree to their terms or don't pay for the product, simple as, tell them by not paying them, just unsubscribe, please.

I truly feel sorry for your loss

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Really? I thought that .50 went to access to the game, not wait for a patch for it.

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Yes it does, and for that lost .50 for not being able to access the game they are giving all this free content, well .50 cents worth anyways.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Nobody read the ToS, NOBODY. That's like telling someone they should have read Apple's ToS, or Facebooks Tos... It's unrealistic...

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In fact they should. noone does, doesn't mean they should not.

Companies have always had fun with that. there was even one who put a code to win $1000 for whoever found it im the ToS.

When you get a job, buy an house or stuff with a contract, you should read it. when you play a game with ToS, you should read them. period.

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Originally Posted by Cadwgan

You're just throwing all your toys out of the pram and throwing a tantrum at this point failing to see things rationally, we all want to log on and play but we understand if they want to update the game there is going to be downtime, I'll take content as compensation for this downtime and go wash a window or something to make my money back.

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Lol ok kid. I really don't think giving a rational argument is the same as throwing a tantrum. But thank you for making me realize that you are just a 16 year old boy in his bedroom thinking he knows something about the real world.

Few read the ToS but that doesn't mean it doesnt exist. Just because you chose not to read it doesn't mean that you can not follow it. You are loosing like 0.50p, search hard enough down the cushions of your sofa I'm sure you can find enough change laying around to replace that. We are getting a GIANT update + server fixes to give them more capacity for more housing etc. Theres a million other things to do instead of play FF14 for the next 24 hours.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Lol ok kid. I really don't think giving a rational argument is the same as throwing a tantrum. But thank you for making me realize that you are just a 16 year old boy in his bedroom thinking he knows something about the real world.

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28 year old that works in customer service that sees this bullshit every week, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

In fact they should. noone does, doesn't mean they should not.

Companies have always had fun with that. there was even one who put a code to win $1000 for whoever found it im the ToS.

When you get a job, buy an house or stuff with a contract, you should read it. when you play a game with ToS, you should read them. period.

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Studies have shown that this is not the case and that nobody should read them because by the time they would get done with them that they will be updated and would have to read them again. You literally would not be able to do anything else if you read all the license agreements and terms of service that you agree to for everything.

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Originally Posted by Cadwgan

28 year old that works in customer service that sees this bullshit every week, thanks.

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You are still a kid to me then, as I am your senior.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

You are still a kid to me then, as I am your senior.

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I'm not going to get into a pissing battle here, there has been advice in this thread of what you can do if you truly feel entitled to your game time (or 50c), but it seems you're not willing to put any effort into getting it back, all you seem to be concerned with is your time... in which case why the hell are you playing an MMO?

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Originally Posted by Cadwgan

I'm not going to get into a pissing battle here, there has been advice in this thread of what you can do if you truly feel entitled to your game time (or 50c), but it seems you're not willing to put any effort into getting it back, all you seem to be concerned with is your time... in which case why the hell are you playing an MMO?

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You started the pissing battle. You're also comparing people trying to rip you off at a convenience store to people wanting compensation for what they've already payed for. As someone who has worked in customer service I am well aware of the absurdities you speak of, but they just aren't relevant to this conversation. Why don't you do yourself a favor and get out once in a while and see what is really happening in the world.

Go nuts and send a support ticket to SE demanding your 50p back. Suspect they will just tell you to read the ToS though.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

nobody should read them because by the time they would get done with them that they will be updated and would have to read them again. You literally would not be able to do anything else if you read all the license agreements and terms of service that you agree to for everything.

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I have no idea what your speed of reading is, but I was able to read them in about 1.5 hours, and that was going back to verify some stuff. I'll make it easier for you and post the parts that prove you are not entitled to anything.

1. YOUR LIMITED LICENSE TO THE GAME AND SERVICE AND LACK OF OWNERSHIP RIGHTS
All aspects of the Game (including but not limited to the Game computer code, updates, patches, expansion packs, characters, character names, character data, virtual items, character profile information, (non-personal) account information, chat transcripts, artwork, plot, dialogue, locations, sounds and music) are owned by Square Enix or its licensors. You do not have any property rights in the service account you use to play the Game ("FINAL FANTASY XIV Service Account" or "FFXIV Service Account").
(you do not own anything, disproving one of your arguments)

4.1 FINAL FANTASY XIV Subscription Fees. In order to access SQUARE ENIX's servers to play the Game, you must agree to a recurring subscription
(aka, you are paying for access to servers and not game time)

5. INTERRUPTION TO THE SERVICE
From time to time, in order to provide our customers with the optimal gaming experience, it is necessary for Square Enix to conduct routine maintenance on the computers and/or servers that support the Game. During these times, access to the Game or support services may be interrupted. Access may also be temporarily suspended in whole or in part, without notice, due to emergency repairs, fire, flood, explosion, war, strike, embargo, governmental action or failure to act, the act of any civil or military authority, act of God, or by any other causes beyond Square Enix's control, or any other reasons for which Square Enix, in its sole discretion, deems that temporary suspension is necessary. You acknowledge that disruptions of service may occur and waive any causes of action against Square Enix in any way arising from or related to any such disruptions of service.
(they can take the servers down at any point and you have no say in the matter)

I just spent 5 mins grazing over the user agreement. You really don't have that much time yet you can continuously post on these forums? Come on, man.

Ok all this whatever it is aside. They have some hardware to do on the servers for the new housing zones. Plus the usual patching that we always have downtime for.
For me and my fellow legacy players, I can say that 26 cents is not going to hurt us. Let's focus on the positive and give them a break as they bring us Rouge, ninja, shiva, and Double the housing areas.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

You started the pissing battle. You're also comparing people trying to rip you off at a convenience store to people wanting compensation for what they've already payed for. As someone who has worked in customer service I am well aware of the absurdities you speak of, but they just aren't relevant to this conversation.

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You've already been provided with the facts, ToS states you aren't entitled to lost game time due to maintenance, ToS does not supersede law of the land, if there is a law out there stating consumers must be compensated at all times you have a rather strong lawsuit to throw at not only SE, but pretty much every company that charges ahead of time for services. You'll be doing everyone a favour.

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Why don't you do yourself a favor and get out once in a while and see what is really happening in the world.

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You'd be doing everyone else a favour by doing this yourself.

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Originally Posted by LilithMakyomo

I have no idea what your speed of reading is, but I was able to read them in about 1.5 hours, and that was going back to verify some stuff. I'll make it easier for you and post the parts that prove you are not entitled to anything.

5. INTERRUPTION TO THE SERVICE

From time to time, in order to provide our customers with the optimal gaming experience, it is necessary for Square Enix to conduct routine maintenance on the computers and/or servers that support the Game. During these times, access to the Game or support services may be interrupted. Access may also be temporarily suspended in whole or in part, without notice, due to emergency repairs, fire, flood, explosion, war, strike, embargo, governmental action or failure to act, the act of any civil or military authority, act of God, or by any other causes beyond Square Enix's control, or any other reasons for which Square Enix, in its sole discretion, deems that temporary suspension is necessary. You acknowledge that disruptions of service may occur and waive any causes of action against Square Enix in any way arising from or related to any such disruptions of service.

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If you read what I typed I am clearly referencing ToS and license agreements as a whole. He was arguing that everyone should always read them which is absurd. Of course you could read this one in a shorter amount of time, but that doesn't defeat the fact that one does not simply just read a license agreement. You all want to acknowledge the rules but you don't want to acknowledge reality and human behavior. Get over yourselves and your thinking you're right because you can reference a rule someone else came up with. The fact is that nobody in here can give a good reason why we shouldn't be compensated. And what's even more pathetic is all your guys' inability to understand that nobody is actually worried about the half dollar being lost, that it is merely a matter of principle. Get it? A matter of principle. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being trolled, but so many people say the same idiotic things. This is what we call "mass delusion".

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Originally Posted by bonedeaf

Ok all this whatever it is aside. They have some hardware to do on the servers for the new housing zones. Plus the usual patching that we always have downtime for.
For me and my fellow legacy players, I can say that 26 cents is not going to hurt us. Let's focus on the positive and give them a break as they bring us Rouge, ninja, shiva, and Double the housing areas.

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As a programmer I find this standard to be cheap and unacceptable. It weakens the industry and promotes a lazy attitude when developing content which results in lower player satisfaction due to lack of proper updates and compelling content.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/fb/fb3b8...9190cddbc2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

Go nuts and send a support ticket to SE demanding your 50p back. Suspect they will just tell you to read the ToS though.

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That would be an incredibly inefficient way of going about it. Thanks for the advice though.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

If you read what I typed I am clearly referencing ToS and license agreements as a whole. He was arguing that everyone should always read them which is absurd. Of course you could read this one in a shorter amount of time, but that doesn't defeat the fact that one does not simply just read a license agreement. You all want to acknowledge the rules but you don't want to acknowledge reality and human behavior. Get over yourselves and your thinking you're right because you can reference a rule someone else came up with. The fact is that nobody in here can give a good reason why we shouldn't be compensated. And what's even more pathetic is all your guys' inability to understand that nobody is actually worried about the half dollar being lost, that it is merely a matter of principle. Get it? A matter of principle. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being trolled, but so many people say the same idiotic things. This is what we call "mass delusion".

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Common sense dictates if you are paying for something repeatedly, you should read the ToS. And you shouldn't reference something you have not read, that just shows lack of understanding.

Oh, and "reference a rule that someone came up with"? I'm pretty sure that's how every government and every company keeps things in check.

Just a question, is this due to a busy schedule on your part and it's difficult to get on throughout the week?

ITT : "I know better than you even when proven wrong so shut up"

All right, I'll pat you on the back and let you whine and fight windmills


also, you'll run out of messages fast at this pace so we won't have to read your nonsense any longer. good riddance


edit : oh yeah and proving your point at least once instead of throwing "you're wrong because I say so" would benefit you

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Originally Posted by Cadwgan

Now you're just throwing insults, if you really wanted anything done about this the last place you'd be is here.

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So you can point out when I insult you but I can't point out when you insult me? That's balderdash!

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Originally Posted by LilithMakyomo

Common sense dictates if you are paying for something repeatedly, you should read the ToS. And you shouldn't reference something you have not read, that just shows lack of understanding.

Oh, and "reference a rule that someone came up with"? I'm pretty sure that's how every government and every company keeps things in check.

Just a question, is this due to a busy schedule on your part and it's difficult to get on throughout the week?

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You are wrong, there are empirical studies that disprove this. It is a matter of ideology and principle, not merely "because".

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

As a programmer I find this standard to be cheap and unacceptable. It weakens the industry and promotes a lazy attitude when developing content which results in lower player satisfaction due to lack of proper updates and compelling content.

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Good news! 3.0 is coming, they're working their asses off, please look forward to it. As a programmer, you should apply to work for them and show them how it's done.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

You are wrong, there are empirical studies that disprove this. It is a matter of ideology and principle, not merely "because".

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I have referenced empirical studies as a whole, who has time to read those when I am entitled to my rights? Stop hiding behind written doctrine and ideology.

It's a fun game to play, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by bonedeaf

Good news! 3.0 is coming, they're working their asses off, please look forward to it. As a programmer, you should apply to work for them and show them how it's done.

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I am looking forward to it! Though I am not sure I would want to work for SE, but that's more of a structural freedom issue.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

I am looking forward to it! Though I am not sure I would want to work for SE, but that's more of a structural freedom issue.

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Unless you're Koji Fox, that guy has the best job ever.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

So you can point out when I insult you but I can't point out when you insult me? That's balderdash!

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I admit I may have said a few things out of line, but some of your posts don't even contain anything other than the insult.


It's just going back and forth, you're arguing "it's the principle of losing 25 hours of potential game time" which is fair enough, most people see it as "I want my 50c back!", I'm not arguing against you when I say go find a law that demands companies to compensate consumers for lost time under any and all circumstances, just a suggestion of what should be done if you honestly feel you're entitled to that lost time.

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Originally Posted by LilithMakyomo

I have referenced empirical studies as a whole, who has time to read those when I am entitled to my rights? Stop hiding behind written doctrine and ideology.

It's a fun game to play, isn't it?

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To be fair, aren't you the one hiding behind doctrine and ideology? You literally are referencing rules that have been indoctrinated into society because of an intense ideology. I am simply arguing against it by saying perhaps I should get what I pay for.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

To be fair, aren't you the one hiding behind doctrine and ideology? You literally are referencing rules that have been indoctrinated into society because of an intense ideology. I am simply arguing against it by saying perhaps I should get what I pay for.

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You already have what you pay for FFS...

You paid for that maintenance. Wether it pleases you or not is none other business than your own

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Originally Posted by Cadwgan

I admit I may have said a few things out of line, but some of your posts don't even contain anything other than the insult.


It's just going back and forth, you're arguing "it's the principle of losing 25 hours of potential game time" which is fair enough, most people see it as "I want my 50c back!", I'm not arguing against you when I say go find a law that demands companies to compensate consumers for lost time under any and all circumstances, just a suggestion of what should be done if you honestly feel you're entitled to that lost time.

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I have no problem having a logical conversation about this, but if you are going to sling insults I have no problems slinging them back. I am in no way concerned about my money because it is so little. I am also aware what ToS states. What I am literally arguing is that it is unreasonable to tell someone they shouldn't be compensated for it because all logic suggests that you should because in reality nobody is actually paying to not play a game. I get what you and everyone else is saying and all I am doing is providing a rational response in return as to why I disagree. But I have yet to have been met with what I believe to be a decent argument against something that I just find to be so fundamentally easy to understand.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

You already have what you pay for FFS...

You paid for that maintenance. Wether it pleases you or not is none other business than your own

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Please feel free to actually read the other posts that have been made as to not waste your energy.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

To be fair, aren't you the one hiding behind doctrine and ideology? You literally are referencing rules that have been indoctrinated into society because of an intense ideology. I am simply arguing against it by saying perhaps I should get what I pay for.

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I have a wall of text that I abide by, and you have a false sense of entitlement that is only there due to a bunch of people thinking they deserve more. Technically, if the rules weren't in place, you would absolutely be right about all this.

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Originally Posted by LilithMakyomo

I have a wall of text that I abide by, and you have a false sense of entitlement that is only there due to a bunch of people thinking they deserve more. Technically, if the rules weren't in place, you would absolutely be right about all this.

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How is it a false sense of entitlement? It really just seems like you're telling me to shut up, along with everyone else who doesn't quite understand this concept. Almost all arguments I have seen have just been insults.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Please feel free to actually read the other posts that have been made as to not waste your energy.

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You not being aware or willingfully ignoring what you pay for because you have faith in a "greater truth" does not put you above the rules you agreed to follow.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

I have no problem having a logical conversation about this, but if you are going to sling insults I have no problems slinging them back. I am in no way concerned about my money because it is so little. I am also aware what ToS states. What I am literally arguing is that it is unreasonable to tell someone they shouldn't be compensated for it because all logic suggests that you should because in reality nobody is actually paying to not play a game. I get what you and everyone else is saying and all I am doing is providing a rational response in return as to why I disagree. But I have yet to have been met with what I believe to be a decent argument against something that I just find to be so fundamentally easy to understand.

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'Eh, I guess most people just accept the ToS and find something else to do for the day, we're gamers, as long as we have something to entertain us. I understand people feel entitled to what they have paid for, in your situation I'd honestly vote with my wallet by unsubscribing and find a lawyer to start digging around, the language SE understands best (other than Japanese) is money. I find it unreasonable to demand compensation, I'd request it as a gesture but I'm not going to kick up a fuss over it.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

You not being aware or willingfully ignoring what you pay for because you have faith in a "greater truth" does not put you above the rules you agreed to follow.

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Actually it does. People are always above rules because they aren't forced to follow them, which essentially makes them moot. If it isn't reasonable it shouldn't be a rule, and this just isn't reasonable.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

How is it a false sense of entitlement? It really just seems like you're telling me to shut up, along with everyone else who doesn't quite understand this concept. Almost all arguments I have seen have just been insults.

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No, I'm not. You are asking for more than what you agreed to pay for. That is a form of being entitled just because you pay for something. Why is it so bad that rules have to be in place for something?