So Why assume removal of Classes?

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Originally Posted by Erepio

no new class for 3.0 have pretty much been confirm by Yoshi-P when a) said new job for xpac not classes
b) at the gamerescape interview when they ask him about why he only said new job he reply with basicly, good catch

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Good point, I forgot about that... didn't know what to think about it at the time.
Yah, sounds like the expansion IS bigger than any of us were thinking... probably a whole new redesigned job system. Thank Yoshi-P! We might get a real Summoner and not a dinky Arcanist with different looking pets! Perhaps this will give individuality back to other jobs as well.

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Originally Posted by NeverYolo

Good point, I forgot about that... didn't know what to think about it at the time.
Yah, sounds like the expansion IS bigger than any of us were thinking... probably a whole new redesigned job system. Thank Yoshi-P! We might get a real Summoner and not a dinky Arcanist with different looking pets! Perhaps this will give individuality back to other jobs as well.

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I wouldn't bet on this personally, I think we will keep the class system for the first classes.

who cares about lore and such? dump the classes!
nobody cares about classes, after lv30, so just remove them.
(slightly sarcastic)

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Well, he also said that once you buy Heavensward you'll be able to get a Dark Knight.

To me that seems to heavily suggest that Dark Knights will become a starter class/job.

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if i remember correctly, it was Koji, that said that...and it was on par with WHM punching stuff (in reference to what cross-class, rog would use, so Yoshi started punching in the air, and Koji was like: WHM?)

This is speculation but they could be doing this. If they revamp the class system and say make "onion knight" the base class a player is and then the job crystal changes person to said job then the first trick is what do you do about going from weapon to job when you first get the job in question.

If they indeed do away with classes I feel like they may do the following:
-Onion Knight will be the base "title" for every adventurer
-The weapon the Onion Knight uses will determine the skillset they have available
-When you change to a job and have no weapon in hand you will be bare-handed
-Abilities will have a "required weapon/job" tool-tip attached to them so in the case of changing into a DRK with no greatsword you would not be able to use any of the abilities which require a Great Sword to use

That's my best guess though if they want to make all the current jobs the same however what they could do for the current class/job system is just have it where 50+ they level separately so from 50+ you have to level both SMN and SCH if you want them at 60 and you can't just lv Arcanist to 60 and have both jobs at 60. With that in mind SMN and SCH would learn completely unique abilities from one another from 50-60 and woudl not share anything between one another in that window of lvs. AKA there will be no addition to class abilities rather abilities will only be tied to jobs from 50+ however abilities from 50+ may be cross-classable.

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Originally Posted by Airget

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or they could just have a class for each wep.
why dump it, to make everyone an onion knight? i don't want to be an onion knight, by default...
so instead of cross-class, you want to cross-job? ya that wouldn't be imbalanced at all. Ninja with shoulder tackle, fist of fire, drg jumps? SCH with fester and summons?
why can't ppl understand: you lv your class, not job; job is just an extension to class, not the other way around. SCH/SMN lvs both go up, cause you lv up ACN. Jobs don't have any lv, by themselves. You unlock job skills, from soulstones, once you're skilled enough in your class. Classes have lore purpose...

We wouldnt even need the Soul Stones if classes were removed. So just by equip a weapon would be enough to job change.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

We wouldnt even need the Soul Stones if classes were removed. So just by equip a weapon would be enough to job change.

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which is basically what we're doing already, so what would that change? except removing a large chunk of story/lore.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Yep we have to keep in mind that Lore wise the Jobs are special because only few people are able to actually learn and master the Jobs.

Dark Knight most likely will have a Lore reason why it is a Job without a class while keeping the concept that Jobs can only be learned by very few people worthy of the Soulstones.

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Funny enough he said if you register a code you "might" be able to become a Dark Knight from the get go, wonder how they're gonna fit that into lore? As much as they claim "lore" on everything, it doesn't keep them from breaking it continually throughout 2.x - to the point they even said to ignore certain lore because it wouldn't make sense if you go: "but the lore stated..."

If we're to take lore into consideration: Conjurers are Black Mages that can also use healing magic. Thaumaturge are Black Mages that can reanimate and control the dead.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

which is basically what we're doing already, so what would that change? except removing a large chunk of story/lore.

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None of the story is dependent on classes, actually - nor even on the jobs. The story is focused around a set of NPCs and the adventurers.

I think it's more like "Don't expect to see any new classes in the game once they add in Rogue".

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

None of the story is dependent on classes, actually - nor even on the jobs. The story is focused around a set of NPCs and the adventurers.

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Seems logic for a dragoon to learn at the lancer guild while the DRK will have a DRK master or guild, absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

I think it's more like "Don't expect to see any new classes in the game once they add in Rogue".

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Well they might add one if they find a good design idea, I wonder if with the class and job system they could do things like a RDM class that has 3 RDM jobs, one for each role.
(Soul crystals being then the memories of different ways of the RDM )

Regardless of what people claim "Yoshi P said" (which is usually nothing more than rumors without any actual evidence), the class system has been completely useless for 2 years now and is long overdue to be done away with. The only issue is the fact that if they were to do it retroactively, you're talking about significantly altering storyline and cutscenes of all the current class and job quests to accommodate the change.

I personally would like it if they would remove classes from the game I personally view things as the class ruins the game for a final fantasy.

The negatives of classes are they limit what we can play as in the game future things being added etc
The cause people not playing a certain job just because they hate the class required to get the job.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

I personally would like it if they would remove classes from the game I personally view things as the class ruins the game for a final fantasy.

The negatives of classes are they limit what we can play as in the game future things being added etc
The cause people not playing a certain job just because they hate the class required to get the job.

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let's just people start with their job max level because they hate leveling.
let's them get full tomestones gear because the hate farming tomestones
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Originally Posted by Hik0

let's just people start with their job max level because they hate leveling.
let's them get full tomestones gear because the hate farming tomestones
....

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starting as max level no

but should we start with are jobs like the other final fantasy hell ya are we should all start as onion knights until lvl 15

we should start as level 1 onion knight then at lvl 15 we turn to are jobs no extra bonus JUST BECAUSE SOME PPL ARE AGAINST CLASSES DOSNT MEAN WE WANT TO BE INSTALTY GODS we just want to start as lvl 1 black mage or w/e

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Originally Posted by Hik0

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This has absolutely nothing to do with anything she said. Your class and job are shared - Getting rid of the class lets you expand the job further because all a job is in XIV atm is - Soulstone (added stats), then 5 extra skills ontop of class skills, thus anything branching off of the class will be heavily limited to the class skills+5 additional skills whereas a pure job can do much more and not be hindered.

Look at Blue Mage - The reason Yoshida finds it hard to implement is because it has to fit into the Tank/DPS/Healer role - whereas take XI's Blue Mage, it can fit any role except for nuker (it has no native nukes in the traditional sense) - So classes+the trinity limits things because they either introduce a class and job each time (which he said he will not do) or they slap a job onto a preexisting class, thus heavily limiting it.

Has nothing to do with wanting instant gratification.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

...because all a job is in XIV atm is - Soulstone (added stats), then 5 extra skills ontop of class skills, thus anything branching off of the class will be heavily limited to the class skills+5 additional skills whereas a pure job can do much more and not be hindered...

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Amendment; jobs are not just 5 extra skills, they are 1 skill every 5 levels. You really expect the new lvl cap to not introduce any new job skills? =_=

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Amendment; jobs are not just 5 extra skills, they are 1 skill every 5 levels. You really expect the new lvl cap to not introduce any new job skills? =_=

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by every 5 lvls this means the future would be skill wise with jobs is
55/65/70/75/80/85/90/95 (the end cuz max lvl will only go up to 99 most likely
so lets count the max skills we will get due to the limitation of classes
6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14
meaning we are really really limited 14 job skills is all we get which means basicly 60% of job possiblitys we cant get due to this reason all because the class system ruins it

which either way you do the map the class system ruined the possibility for the future.

lets think about this
if we get 3 jobs a expansions
not counting the ninja we getting before hand

also due to the class system we have a harsh limitation on future jobs

mental strategy tells us if you got harsh limitation on the jobs and stuff people will lose hope with the game and hang up the jacket in a way

the total expansion we get at max counting new primals/jobs is only about 4 or 6 expansions counting we get new primals per patch

I think they should just tweak the system they have and not remove it. Perhaps keep the two class requirement. Also have the job retain its start at 30 status but become its own thing thats no longer linked to two classes its obtain from to become its own thing with its own main skills.

I'm sch main and I have always enjoyed playing healers in mmorpgs. Being forced to play a DPS 'till level30 in order to unlock sch was kinda annoying. Thankfully 1-30 is not that long

either way if they dont remove classes i fear this game is doomed and wont last any longer than 2 more years due the limations they have caused with the class system

Whatever crystal fortune telling ball you have, winx, I want one as well. This week's lotto is coming up really quickly.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Whatever crystal fortune telling ball you have, winx, I want one as well. This week's lotto is coming up really quickly.

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im useing simple math and the way they are currently doing things also strategy and planning that might happen also due the skill system we have

do the math and you will see im right

SE uses the lore to explain gameplay and design changes not as a reason for game changes. It's easy to remove the class system during the expansion SE will break the jobs away from classes by having players level up their job stone which is still at lvl 30

To his defence, It will be extremely limited for scholar/summoner once they raise the cap. Half of the skills will be useless for one or the other class

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

im useing simple math and the way they are currently doing things also strategy and planning that might happen also due the skill system we have

do the math and you will see im right

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You're right, my WHM job is totally ruined because I can never access my Cure branch of spells, or Esuna, or the typical White Magic spells, because they all got shafted by the class system...

Oh wait.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

You're right, my WHM job is totally ruined because I can never access my Cure branch of spells, or Esuna, or the typical White Magic spells, because they all got shafted by the class system...

Oh wait.

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u do realize its not just about the current jobs we have right?

future jobs are completely ruined cuz of the system with classes think about this final fantasy dosnt have that many jobs to start with and due to the class system even how we learn skills in this game they have destroyed the possiblity for some of the jobs to even be added right
but what ever you owe me 20 dollars when the game dies in 2 years after they refuse to fix the broken system that causes limitaion

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

u do realize its not just about the current jobs we have right?

future jobs are completely ruined cuz of the system with classes think about this final fantasy dosnt have that many jobs to start with and due to the class system even how we learn skills in this game they have destroyed the possiblity for some of the jobs to even be added right

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If you want to get rid of the class system, yes, it WILL be majorly about the current jobs. You won't be destroying just the class and guild lores, you'll be destroying city-state lore, and history all the way at least up to the fifth astral era.

With new citystates, they can establish lore without a common class as the start. Ishgard is home to Dragoons after all, and the Lancer guild is in Gridania.

And guess what is happening with the new job we know off?

There's no base class to it.

It doesn't mean that the current classes should be abolished.

And how exactly will they be 'destroyed'? Limited, yes, but with, say, PGL and MNK, THM and BLM, GLA and PLD, CNJ and WHM, do the classes not have skills which lead up to the job? You seem to be implying that the classes will destroy any job-iconic abilities there are and the corresponding job won't have it. But that's incorrect, because the job still retains those skills and acts on those skills to succeed in its role.

Would I like to see adjustments to make jobs more pronounced? Yes, I would. But not to the point of having the class system removed.

The problem ad I said are the design limits around ARC/SMN/SCH.
Traits are already completely wrong (int for sch, really?)
When they raise the level cap its going to be even worster.

If they want to keep the sch lore they might just make so that in order to unlock the sch class you still have to level arcanist/summoner till you learn EOS/selene magics

you do realize that they need to create 2 class/jobs each time with the old system. it means create a class, then create the jobs.

by taking out the class it will give them more tool for make each jobs different.

by the way back to 2.0 he did say think about adding new jobs to the current class, however recently (probably while the e3) he did say that they don't plan to add more jobs to the current class.
like said while the Q/A of london, they learn and change stuff all the time, you can't expect something said for the 2.0 to be still in the plan, maybe they will have better idea and stuff like this.

that why i will not be surprise if at tokyo they simply announce agent or chemist or machinist.... but no musketeer. since is a relic from the tanaka period.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

u do realize its not just about the current jobs we have right?

future jobs are completely ruined cuz of the system with classes think about this final fantasy dosnt have that many jobs to start with and due to the class system even how we learn skills in this game they have destroyed the possiblity for some of the jobs to even be added right
but what ever you owe me 20 dollars when the game dies in 2 years after they refuse to fix the broken system that causes limitaion

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That post means that you would be a terrible game designer.

If the job you are talking about is blue mage then you are wrong, you can add it in the game right now even with the current pattern of class/job ( that is not going to be the same considering how ninjas are ). There are no limitations in the class system, except the diversity in kinds of weapon, which can be fixed easily, but they don't want to.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

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i'd guess lv cap would eventually stop at 100, cause of job skills every 5lv, would be weird to stop at 99.
and including class skills, that's going to be a lot. In XIV, there isn't even any special stats, like dragonslayer, for DRG. So the amount of skills you can put in for DRG, is somewhat limited anyway. So we don't *need* lv 1-100job, with only job skills.
For WHM, there's the possibility of like 10 more heal skills...that's necessary? not really. They can throw in a mix of atk/buff/heals, between CNJ and WHM. There's no job possibility lost, just cause of class.
Because of lv60 cap in expansion, it opens up the jobs, a bit more.
Also i'm guessing you're basing possibilities, on previous FF games that don't have anything to do with XIV.
We don't really know how many jobs there are going to be in expansion, and they can and do add jobs, outside of expansions.
DRK doesn't have any class, so we'll see what that leads to.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

by taking out the class it will give them more tool for make each jobs different.

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yes, and it would require lots more work. SCH/SMN share ACN; without ACN, they'd need to double the amount of skills, to differentiate them; not that i'm against it, but it's more efficient to have a class branch into multiple jobs.

heres the thing not only does it ruin jobs such as blue mages as u said and puppeter and so on

but it takes away players costumization or desire to play a job in some cases

warrior for example i would to love play i mean really i would but i really really hate 2 handed axes and u might say then play gladitor/ paladin well i hate holy things and i rlly hate shields so due to the weapons for the classes they kinda ruined me for tanking jobs

Interesting topic I would wager maximum grind so two different class/jobs not connected in cross skills.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

u do realize its not just about the current jobs we have right?

future jobs are completely ruined cuz of the system with classes think about this final fantasy dosnt have that many jobs to start with and due to the class system even how we learn skills in this game they have destroyed the possiblity for some of the jobs to even be added right
but what ever you owe me 20 dollars when the game dies in 2 years after they refuse to fix the broken system that causes limitaion

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Uh.. What? (at the bolded) Final Fantasy has nothing but Jobs. Go educate yourself and look up Final Fantasy Tactics (and Advanced). FFXIV is the only FF to use classes because 1.0 was trying to be different and initially wasn't going to have the traditional FF jobs likely at all. ARR classes are there as a holdover, and they originally had plans to have multiple jobs spring from each class. However the reception of the implementation of this process: Arcanist was largely negative. People don't have problems with either Summoner or Scholar (er.. well, they do but those are different issues than what's being discussed here), it's just that they share the same stat distribution as you're leveling up yet each uses a different main stat. The difference isn't game breaking, but it's still something that has and does bother people.

I think there will likely not be any classes from 3.0 onward. Do we really need them? Obviously not. The only thing's obtained from classes are 1-3 cross class abilities that can be used with the current set of of Jobs. And in my opinion some cross class skills that jobs have access to are completely useless and unnecessary. Wouldn't it make more sense to just have a Job, that will actually use it's own gained abilites? It certainly sounds like less hassle to deal with from a development standpoint and as I player I can't see why we'd need new classes unless they bring something new to the table that would need to be used by multiple jobs. It's not needed.

Now as far as the current classes we still have in the game (and Rogue), I don't see them suddenly disappearing. In fact, I can't understand why anyone would think they are just going to scrap all the classes that are already in the game. They won't. Everything that's in the game right now is going to stay the same, even as the level cap raises the Jobs are what will be getting new skills and abilities.

Now, with the current system the Traits on the other hand are tied to the classes and while that really doesn't pose a problem for any of the jobs currently with the exception of Summoner and Scholar because they share the same base class. So for them, there won't ever be any specific traits that would benefit Summoner specifically or Scholar specifically.. which is kind of unfortunate in a way. Future Jobs will have traits that are specific to the Job since they wont be tied to a base class. For every current job, except Sch/Smn, there is virtually no difference in the way they play and the way they function between class and job. The only difference is that classes have a much wider assortment of class skills to pick from, and even then, this only is effective from level 1-30. Once the soul stone is acquired the Jobs have only a few select cross class abilities available to them.

With 3.0 onward jobs probably will not use the current class abilities in a cross-class section like the 2.0-2.4 jobs do, but instead will have more skills available to them to make up for not having access to cross-class skills. That's my guess anyway.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

heres the thing not only does it ruin jobs such as blue mages as u said and puppeter and so on

but it takes away players costumization or desire to play a job in some cases

warrior for example i would to love play i mean really i would but i really really hate 2 handed axes and u might say then play gladitor/ paladin well i hate holy things and i rlly hate shields so due to the weapons for the classes they kinda ruined me for tanking jobs

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So basically, there isn't any class that please you now so you are pissed. Wait for DRK.

angery no but do i view it as stupid personally yes i do

also ecks almost all final fantasys have used the basic jobs

the only expection really is ff8

even 10 used the job system in some way

even 7 did in a way vincent a gunner yuffie a ninja/theif

My two cents.
Since DRK will be a class without a Base class, this most likely plays into the Lore of the class.
Dark Knight being a Soulless one who steals the life force of others. It wouldn't require a base class and thus a Soul Stone.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

My two cents.
Since DRK will be a class without a Base class, this most likely plays into the Lore of the class.
Dark Knight being a Soulless one who steals the life force of others. It wouldn't require a base class and thus a Soul Stone.

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Maybe we will receive a soul stone at lvl 30 too that will give us a boost in stats or something though.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

angery no but do i view it as stupid personally yes i do

also ecks almost all final fantasys have used the basic jobs

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Monk, BLM and WHM aren't the basic jobs ? I don't understand what you mean here.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Yoshida has said there will be Job+Job in the future and "Class > Job" will not always be the case - This is one of those instances. Flat out removal of classes? Probably not, but far far less reliance on them? Most likely and hopefully so. Classes are fine and all, but realistically, now that they moved away from Tanaka's design, it's time to move away from the rest of his design.

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Subjobs coming? Cool.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

warrior for example i would to love play i mean really i would but i really really hate 2 handed axes and u might say then play gladitor/ paladin well i hate holy things and i rlly hate shields so due to the weapons for the classes they kinda ruined me for tanking jobs

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be happy you'll be able to tank with a greatsword soon!
also they can allow different weapon type for each class without changing the class system (you already can since thm/cnj can both use 2handed or one handed weapons).the only limitation is that one item can not be equiped buy 2different class/job.

As for people who want a sword DPS they can make as many class as swordtype:

• Great sword
• Longsword and bastard sword
• Broadsword
• Long knife
• Bidenhänder
• Rapier
• "Handedness"
• Edgeless swords
  • Panzerstecher and koncerz
  • Tuck and Verdun
  • Small-sword
• Hangers and Sabres
  • Hanger
  • Falchion and cutlass
  • Sabre
  • Scimitar

even only using the main types it can do 9 sword users class, and it's not the only sword classification you can find

oh, its a game they can sort the sword in as many different type they want, they can also make 2swords that are exctly the same but say the 1st is a 'gladiator' sword and the second a 'fencer' sword