so wich class/job shares a gearset with rog/ninja?

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Originally Posted by Sove92

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That's great and all but as of right now dexterity only effects physical ranged damage. Unless 2.4 changes how dexterity works I don't understand how this will benefit a melee class.

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Originally Posted by Chambers

That's great and all but as of right now dexterity only effects physical ranged damage. Unless 2.4 changes how dexterity works I don't understand how this will benefit a melee class.

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They only need to really change the tooltip, tanks and DRG have ranged attacks that are based on STR, not DEX. The stat used for damage is simply based on the class or weapon, the tooltips can say whatever they want.

So you believe that they're going to swap the tooltips for STR and DEX just for ninja?

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Originally Posted by Chambers

So you believe that they're going to swap the tooltips for STR and DEX just for ninja?

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Or, has another has said, add a simple line:

'And dual wield damage'

Considering the catagory of twinblades can be their own damage.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

I almost agree with both of you except:
1st pic left to right:

Monk/NIN ------ PLD/WAR ------ DRG

2nd pic left to right

WHM/SCH ------ BRD ------ BLM/SMN

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Agreed, the middle one on the second picture looks more pirate like, so I would guess Bard. And the 1st and 3rd one are color swaps / mirror of the same skin pretty much which they did alot in the past with Healer / Caster gear.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Or, has another has said, add a simple line:

'And dual wield damage'

Considering the catagory of twinblades can be their own damage.

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Why though?

Whats the difference between twin blades and single blade, they're both being used with one hand so your not putting more strength into one than the other. All this change to dex is just gonna make the tooltips be subject to debate, so whats the point?

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Or, has another has said, add a simple line:

'And dual wield damage'

Considering the catagory of twinblades can be their own damage.

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Ninja will be a much of a "duel wield class" as monk already is and monk is strength.

They hinted at maybe needing something leveled to 10 by that and skills at that level from other jobs I would go with mnk or archer, mnk being the most likely.

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Originally Posted by JakzChurchill

Why though?

Whats the difference between twin blades and single blade, they're both being used with one hand so your not putting more strength into one than the other. All this change to dex is just gonna make the tooltips be subject to debate, so whats the point?

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The short answer is, "It makes sense."

The long answer is: You don't need a lot of strength to inflict damage with daggers, you need to know where to poke. Axes, Books, Fists etc. will all inflict more damage the harder you hit with them but a dagger can only go in so deep and can only be effective in so many locations just like an arrow. The game formula is also very accepting. We see STR/DEX influencing Attack Power for every weapon at a 1:1 ratio. All physical damaging abilities use Attack Power in their equation, not STR/DEX. This change was introduced after the ARR beta because MRD/GLA/LNC ranged attacks were calculated with DEX because they are ranged attacks. Since those classes main stat is STR their ranged attacks did next to no damage. This is when they added Attack Power and had all damage scale with this instead of STR/DEX. It's just a flip of the switch to make a weapon STR or DEX based. Ninja is dextrous, agile, precision, sneaky job, the TV trope would assign DEX to it. Tool tips just need to be rewritten to state what weapons' Attack Power is raised by STR/DEX instead of the broad "dex = ranged attacks" which simply isn't true anymore.

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Originally Posted by Wobble

They hinted at maybe needing something leveled to 10 by that and skills at that level from other jobs I would go with mnk or archer, mnk being the most likely.

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When they said you need something at level 10 it was because you can't start the game as a Rogue, so you need to hit level 10 in order to unlock classes.

They can do whatever they want with those tool tips. Is not like dex affecting only ranged attacks made any sense either. On almost every game dexterity was the primary attribute for rogue-type roles.

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Originally Posted by ZodiacSoldier

When they said you need something at level 10 it was because you can't start the game as a Rogue, so you need to hit level 10 in order to unlock classes.

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I still stand by the rest of my statement

You guys still arguing about this? Nin shares gear with Monk and is STR... and no the level 10 requirement is for any combat class.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

You guys still arguing about this? Nin shares gear with Monk and is STR... and no the level 10 requirement is for any combat class.

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I think them saying a level at all has confused a lot of people, it should of just been you need access to the armoury system and the abillity to get to the guild to unlock the job.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

This is when they added Attack Power and had all damage scale with this instead of STR/DEX. It's just a flip of the switch to make a weapon STR or DEX based. Ninja is dextrous, agile, precision, sneaky job, the TV trope would assign DEX to it. Tool tips just need to be rewritten to state what weapons' Attack Power is raised by STR/DEX instead of the broad "dex = ranged attacks" which simply isn't true anymore.

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I'm not saying that they scale differently, I'm saying they are set out for the simplicity. But yes it shouldn't say attacks as it means weapons, ranged weapons are affected by dex and melee by str.

That TV trope is only viable when you don't have the secondary stats we have, DEX usually encompassed acc and skill speed, this meant in games where skill speed had a noticeble change it was a viable route to upgrade a character. But it's just not the case in XIV, secondary stats are just that secondary, and the only reason we have seperate stats is to make an intuitive system where a player can easily decipher the stat their weapon should be using. Once you start going on a weapon by weapon basis you run into issue, yes it would only say and Duel Weapons for now, but what about in 6 months if they add a fencer class, do they then say duel weapons and rapiers? How long does list go down? At what point does str need the same list so people don't just read the str tooltip and assume it encompasses these fast weapons aswell.

What is the reason for calling for change where change is not needed, it's illogical.

I don't really know what's so confusing about, "You can not start the game as a Rogue, you must have a level 10 combat class to unlock it". Maybe my mind just works differently. Anyway I think the major problem is either, A) People prepared with DEX equips and refuse to accept the truth, or B)they're to used to thieves being AGI/DEX from other MMOS. I'll admit I'm used to those MMO's as well. But, in the end it being STR just makes more sense in FF14.

Oh wait what, you can't start the game as rogue? o_O

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

The short answer is, "It makes sense."

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actually it don't make it sense, you ask for a change of the whole game combat system, since you want to modify how work a basic stats. anyway, like i did say before it will not happend, 3 point for this:

-1) yoshida have said in the past that we must save melee dps stuff.
-2) the bard armor are not suited for the ninja animation, just take the ST armor, the cliping and the hat are stupid for a class jumping in all sense.
-3) the Fuuma armor! the armor of ninja from FF3 in CT that monk use! make an armor like this and after decide that the ninja, the class from where come this armor, can't use it... is stupid!

they have other jobs to do than modify all the stats simply for "make it sense" for you! because you had play another game that was using dex for this... but here the rule are simple... STR = melee dps! DEX = physical ranged dps.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

The short answer is, "It makes sense."

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It only makes sense in your head. The stats are established, they have a clear cookie cutter meaning. STR is for melee attack, DEX is for ranged physical attack. The "only" reason it would change is if the developers decide that these two clear as day meanings of the stats be changed is really for the hell of it. Everything actually makes sense for NIN to share gear with the Striking set that MNK's use. You can tell from how gear looks alone how NIN can share gear with MNK. Everything fits into place. The only way NIN has any possibility of being DEX is if the developers decide to change the meaning of the DEX set and give a whole new set of DEX gear to NIN. It is common sense NIN doesn't use the same gear as BRD. People are doing mental gymnastics in their head to try to make DEX work as a melee stat in this game. This game is not other MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

STR is for melee attack, DEX is for ranged physical attack.

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Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Piercing Talon disagree with that.

I'm choosing safe route and crafting all the dow gear that has both str/dex bonuses, which for armor will take me all the way to lvl 49, only gear i'll have to wait and see to make are accessories and i can knock those out easily enough.

Also since I have both mnk/brd at 50, nin will just share lvl50 gear with whichever one SE chooses.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Piercing Talon disagree with that.

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That changes nothing. Ninja is confirmed as a melee DPS. Tossing abilities doesn't help your argument, unless if you want to talk about any throwing abilities Rogue/Ninja actually does have.

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

going by what they showed unless they omited one someone is sharing a set with rog/nin
http://i.minus.com/izl3yUCduRZAX.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iN6W79dKIrCzK.jpg

the question is,is it mnk/pug or brd/nin. i could make cases for both but none of the new crafted sets scream monk or bard to me.

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That big, fat, red ring!

Those purple earrings!

etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Piercing Talon disagree with that.

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I wish there would be also Chakras for Monk again in your list

I didn't take the time to read every post because I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents, but I'm thinking Nin is going to be more inclined to be related to Monk. In Final Fantasy XI Sam/Nin/Mnk were always kinda bundled together when it came to gear due to how they are far east related and the relation to the martial arts. I could be wrong, but if I were a betting man, which I'm not, I would put my money on Mnk being the job that is most closely related to Nin.

I personally can't wait for the realease of Rogue and Ninja as Thf and Nin were 2 or my favorite jobs in Final Fantasy XI. I just wish that Nin were going to be a tank job rather than pure DPS, due to the evasiveness of ninja and thief/rogue. {Utsusemi} {Can I Have It?} ( ~.ø)b

For everyone that thinks nin should use dex you need to ask why?

Why rework the way an entire stat works when we have a system that is working fine? to make it like other games?

Changing dex to include ninja damage just complicates the whole thing for no good reason. It is extra coding that does not need to be done, it is a wast of time.

It's going to be monk. I don't know why anyone would expect SE to completely overhaul their stat system for one job, but no it's going to be STR based, not DEX. NIN is not a tank, it does not need parry/block rate, it's a melee DPS, it will use STR.

Maybe I'm remembering this completely wrong, but during a live letter months ago didn't YoshiP more or less comment "WHAT GEAR DOES NIN SHARE? LOL I DUNNO BUT MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T GET RID OF YOUR MNK EQUIPMENT NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK FLOOR STOMP"?

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Originally Posted by Limecat

Maybe I'm remembering this completely wrong, but during a live letter months ago didn't YoshiP more or less comment "WHAT GEAR DOES NIN SHARE? LOL I DUNNO BUT MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T GET RID OF YOUR MNK EQUIPMENT NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK FLOOR STOMP"?

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He didn't say MNK, but he did say melee.

Another possibility is that the gear is semi glamor gear with DoW, GLD/MRD, GLD/LNC/MRD, All, All, All as the equip requirements.

The 2nd picture's left and right sets seems to be showing a long and short version of the body or legs (hard to tell which the skirt is part of on the left).

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Another possibility is that the gear is semi glamor gear with DoW, GLD/MRD, GLD/LNC/MRD, All, All, All as the equip requirements.

The 2nd picture's left and right sets seems to be showing a long and short version of the body or legs (hard to tell which the skirt is part of on the left).

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You guys are stretching.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

I just noticed, the one you have marked as BLM/SMN...there is a big dagger in the front there...No caster sets I have seen, that I can remember, have weapons such as this and am at a loss as to who it would go to, BRD potentially, the one next to her that you said could be brd i think is BLM/SMN.
/discuss

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I hope youre right, if that is bard gear i'd cry, I hate playing bard but its so cute so I'd have to get it

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Originally Posted by Canadane

It wouldn't be the first time DEX would be revamped in this game.

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except it doesn't really make sense to revamp dex, just for rogue.

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Originally Posted by gorror

For everyone that thinks nin should use dex you need to ask why?

Why rework the way an entire stat works when we have a system that is working fine? to make it like other games?

Changing dex to include ninja damage just complicates the whole thing for no good reason. It is extra coding that does not need to be done, it is a wast of time.

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It's nothing but a variable on the class or weapon to choose which stat it uses for attack power, only the the tooltip needs to be changed, which is incorrect anyway. If DEX was purely ranged damage stat, melee class ranged abilities would do horrible damage, yet, these ranged attacks use STR.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Shield Lob, Tomahawk and Piercing Talon disagree with that.

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yah that would be awesome, if drg needed dex, just to make piercing talon, do any damage.
you THROW a spear...that requires str, not dex.
dex doesn't have anything to do with damage, typing quickly on your keyboard, or managing multiple skill-bars, etc, is dex. it's body coordination. it would affect parry/block and accuracy/crit.
so if you want dex to affect damage, then dex->acc->crit (but in XIV, they aren't related) Actually dex shouldnt affect bow damage either, but dex is usually for ranged attacks, because you're more reliant on accuracy, to hit from far away, and also to differentiate gear, so not everyone share str gear.

duno why ppl are making such a fuss about preparing rogue gear :)
we're lv 50 with ilv110 gear; 10ilv doesn't do all that much. You can just FATE spam, and buy GC gear. or go with foehunter until 32, and use infantry set until 45, and AF to 50.
or i guess you can prepare mats, and craft gear to SB, while you lv rogue.
either way, gear doesn't do much, prior to 50. you'll get all you need from class/job quest.

Can forget this debate, DEX confirmed, suck it up.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Can forget this debate, DEX confirmed, suck it up.

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Dex confirmed, but mnk gear stated as the shared gear. Yeah, this debate pretty much got split down the middle.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

Dex confirmed, but mnk gear stated as the shared gear. Yeah, this debate pretty much got split down the middle.

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I wouldn't say it was quite split down the middle. The STR or DEX debate was due to those of us knowing how the stats work with skills in spite of their given descriptions and those that were going strictly by the current descriptions.

Those of us that figured it to be DEX based on its trope and assumed an incoming change to the description of DEX came out on top. I say this because NIN will only be sharing gear with MNK (which will have DEX added to its gear) up until the gear added in 2.3. All future gear will have a NIN version using DEX separate from MNK's pure STR set.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

Dex confirmed, but mnk gear stated as the shared gear. Yeah, this debate pretty much got split down the middle.

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Split down the middle how? Shared gear with MNK is only a temporary deal, NIN will have it's own DEX-only gear from 2.4 and on.