Mercy Stroke pretty useless for WAR?

Helps me get a little extra aggro for full credit in the Hunt.

Moves our group on to a new set of dungeon mobs maybe... half a second faster?

Yeah, it's far from crucial. Probably the least useful WAR skill.

There is a time when fracture is worth applying. Anytime you have an extended period of not attacking something, specifically Off tanking.

If you know that you are going to leave the main boss to pick up an add, and apply fracture right before, then it would most certainly be worth it, since you would be dealing damage to the add and the main boss at the same time.

Is it a game breaking amount of damage? no

Is it worth breaking a combo for? no. Especially if you are about to pick up an add, it would be ideal to have a loaded combo.
But if you can squeeze a fracture before loading up your combo and going to get the add then it is def better.

So to use fracture properly you must understand the timing of the fight.

As for mercy stroke, you have the ability as a warrior, its worth using. Could the heal be better? yeah. A shield would be nice or a regen tick.
The heal requirement is a little tricky to pull off and the current heal is only marginally useful on trash.

All that being said, none of these abilities are "broken". And fall more under the quality of life improvements.

im·pede verb
delay or prevent (someone or something) by obstructing them; hinder.

fracture does not delay or prevent enmity by obstructing it. fracture does not hinder enmity gain. whilst the DoT ticks you're gaining enmity. That's on top of any GCD you're using in conjunction with fracture. you lied. I understand it isn't as effective as a butcher block combo, but that statement is you moving the goal posts, covering your tracks.

If you can't fit fracture into your rotation during T9, that's fine- you're playing your warrior how you want to play it. Nevermind Infuriate, or the other two abilities that give/can fill your wrath- you have a rotation that works, you should stick to it.

Basically your maths are solid but your data is flawed. you claim you've ran rotations, but then you switch from wanting to cycle highest potency/gcd to a precise rotation for one encounter. Furthermore you still have YET to provide any mathematical evidence on storm's eye, all I have is your initial post. Sure, cite the 2.23/gcd that evidently results as a loss since you miss 1 gcd without storm's eye, but potency compared to slashing resistance isn't a constant. Firstly, do you know the slashing resistance of every encounter or are you assuming its 100? Secondly, are you accounting for STR and DET variations in ilvl- these numbers are in flux (with debuffs/buffs), while slash resistance is dependent and unchanging*(unless encounter defensive buffs). Basically, the stronger a WAR gets the more beneficial fracture becomes.

Also, I don't know what you're running when you test w/fracture w/o fracture, but third party programs are a breach of the terms and service agreement we've both acknowledges and accepted. I suggest you stop if you are using one.

Fracture, as I mentioned from the beginning, is worth using when unleashed and berserked; and if you can manage TP and debuffs then put it up again. In a lot of ways it's the mercy stroke of WAR GCD's, use it when you can.

here's some real math for you(again): 300 potency. Fracture is a tool in a WAR's toolkit, and there is no in loss of potential gain when using it. look at these 5 part samples: Fracture(300)>Heavy Swing(150)>Maim(100)>Storm's Eye(270)>Heavy Swing(150) ; Heavy Swing(150)>Maim(100)>Storm'sEye(270)>Heavy Swing(150)>Maim(100). The sample with Fracture wins.

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Originally Posted by TheodoreMcIntyre

A PVP skill that was put into the game before PVP and isn't actually listed with all the PVP skills?
Sacre bleu, mes amis!

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Are you aware that the whole game and its classes were designed with PvP in mind from the start ? That's why all the classes are so balanced.


On topic, I don't know if you play WAR often, but Mercy Stroke is a very useful skill in every situation and is really easy to time unless you have a burster in your team (DRG or BLM, choose your plague ;D ). You just have to remember the always-present lag that is present no matter how good your connection is, coming from your partners' action calculations on your own screen. If you hit the button when a mob is at 2%, I can 100% guarantee you you'll never have the heal unless your dps held the mob for you.

I think the biggest anti-Fracture, perma-Storm's Eye argument to be made is that Storm's Eye also buffs the other tank (assuming there is another tank), not just the WAR's own rotation. The 27 potency + 10% of an AA or two loss WAR loses in the GCD Storm's Eye drops off could be more like a loss of 10% of Storm's Eye + WAR AA + Rage of Halone + Spirit's Within + Sword Oath AAs from your OT PLD using Fight or Flight, in a worst case scenario.

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Originally Posted by BIRDMAN

If you can't fit fracture into your rotation during T9, that's fine- you're playing your warrior how you want to play it. Nevermind Infuriate, or the other two abilities that give/can fill your wrath- you have a rotation that works, you should stick to it.

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LOL @ implying those abilities aren't a critical part of my rotation for T9.

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but potency compared to slashing resistance isn't a constant. Firstly, do you know the slashing resistance of every encounter or are you assuming its 100?

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As far as I've read and tested, Storm's Eye is somewhere between a 10-11% damage boost (which does not boost DOT damage). NOTE: I did the calculations BELOW assuming storm's eye is 10%; I did PREVIOUS calculations assuming storm's eye was 11%. If you have any data supporting Storm's Eye's (or any "resistance down" debuff's) effectiveness fluctuating against different enemies, please bring it forward.

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Also, I don't know what you're running when you test w/fracture w/o fracture, but third party programs are a breach of the terms and service agreement we've both acknowledges and accepted. I suggest you stop if you are using one.

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LOL. Dude, I'm literally plugging potency values into Microsoft Excel and calculating the potency/gcd (as well as other metrics). You can leave your tired-ass indignation for parsing programs at the door, because it never has been, AND NEVER WILL BE (as far as I'm concerned), part of this discussion.

You don't seem to understand how to calculate a rotation, so I'm going to post ALL of my relevant data in regards to my argument, since you won't understand it any other way.

hs - Heavy Swing 150 pot; ss - Skull Sunder 200 pot; bb - Butcher's Block 280 pot; m - Maim 190 pot; se - Storm's Eye 270 pot; ib - Inner Beast 400 pot (=300/.75); fr - Fracture 100 pot & 200 dot pot; x- - denotes a GCD where Storm's Eye is not in effect

NOTE: The following values are for comparison within WAR only. That is, these values are not indicative of WAR's true output (for instance, if you compared it to MNK's values). This is because I, for simplicity's sake, eliminated any common factors (namely, Defiance damage%-, Defiance enmity%+, and Maim damage%+)

Rotation #1: Defiance, no Fracture, no Storm's Path, IB as soon as possible, 34 GCDs before repeating.

(hs >m>se) > rotation begins: [hs>ss>bb>hs>m>ib>se->hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se>ib>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->hs>ss>ib>bb>hs>m>se->hs>ss>bb>ib>hs>m>se-]

base potency: 7800; potency from Storm's Eye: 672; --> Storm's Eye effective bonus to GCDs: 8.62%
total potency: 8472; --> potency/gcd: 249.18
total enmity: 8472 + 2200 (ss bonus) + 6160 (bb bonus) = 16832; --> enmity/gcd: 495.06
se #: 5; se total duration: 75s; --> se uptime: 88.24%
ib#: 4; ib total duration: 24s; --> ib uptime: 28.24%

Rotation #2: Defiance, Fracture, no Storm's Path, IB as soon as possible, 73 GCDs before repeating.

(hs>m>se) > rotation begins: [fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>ib->se->hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se>ib>fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m->se->hs>ss>ib>bb>hs>m>se->fr>hs>ss>bb>ib>hs>m->se->hs>ss>bb>hs>m>ib>se->fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->ib>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->fr>hs>ss>ib>bb>hs>m->se->hs>ss>bb>ib>hs>m>se-]

base potency: 17100; potency from Storm's Eye: 1270; --> Storm's Eye effective bonus to GCDs: 7.43%
total potency: 18370; --> potency/gcd: 251.64
total enmity: 18370 + 4400 (ss bonus) + 12320 (bb bonus) = 35090; --> enmity/gcd: 480.68
se #: 10; se total duration: 150s; --> se uptime: 82.19%
ib#: 8; ib total duration: 48s; --> ib uptime: 26.3%

Differences

potency/gcd: 251.64-249.18 = 2.46; --> 2.46/249.18 = 0.99% potency/gcd increase using Rotation #2
enmity/gcd: 495.06-480.68 = 14.38; --> 14.38/480.68 = 2.99% enmity/gcd increase using Rotation #1 -- Tell me again how I'm lying about the effects of Fracture on overall enmity generation.
se uptime: 88.24-82.19 = 6.05; --> 6.05/82.19 = 7.36% greater se uptime using Rotation #1
ib uptime: 28.24-26.3 = 1.94; --> 1.94/26.3 = 7.38% greater ib uptime using Rotation #1 NOTE: slight rounding error, should be nearly equal to SE uptime difference.


I expect that you (or someone) will fire back, saying that these rotations aren't practical, and that nobody adheres to them like this. OF COURSE. The point of this is to illustrate the ideal differences.
Practically speaking, these differences are magnified and diminished depending on the immediate circumstance. A good example is my T9 example: using Fracture would prohibit me from using an extra IB. Not only would I be mitigating significantly less damage, I would also be dealing less damage; what the hell kind of exchange is that?

A good WAR will strive to maximize their Wrath usage, not hold onto it. Ergo, I only use Fracture if I'm absolutely 100% certain that generating more Wrath won't benefit me overall.

The secondary concern is that the loss of Storm's Eye mutes Fracture's DPS increase. If we use the SE uptime figures above, we can estimate the effect on auto-attacks and a PLD co-tank. If we assume a 100 potency AA every 3.5s and a PLD's potency/gcd of 203.33, then we end up with a 0.81 potency/gcd difference in favor of Rotation #2. That's a 0.23% potency/gcd increase.
These are simple calculations, and I will concede that my data collection is far from perfect. I have not factored in the multitude of other buffs, debuffs, and oGCDs at work.

TL;DR MATH. OPPORTUNITY COST. Please, call me a liar again.

I love the math, but this is a little off topic. I think the point of this thread was mercy stroke. And it has been clearly answered that it is NOT useless.

The OP even stated it when he admitted that it had NO downside. So there you go. Case closed.

(if something has no downside, then it is therefore useful) just so we are clear

So yeah, Fracture. Only use it when you don't need to be optimising for enmity (you can treat yourself to better stuff) but it is good for dpsing? Is that what our conclusion is?

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

So yeah, Fracture. Only use it when you don't need to be optimising for enmity (you can treat yourself to better stuff) but it is good for dpsing? Is that what our conclusion is?

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Due to the Storm's Eye buff it's in a much better spot now. Only real flaws are TP drain and it's a GCD that doesn't further wrath building, but DPS wise it's now easier to fit in.

Fracture really shines when you are not in defiance as well. Since Wrath is no longer a concern. It has always been good when you know you wont be hitting the boss for awhile, ie jumps and teleports, ect.

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Originally Posted by Haprimac

I like it simply for the fact that some of my DD friends like to leave mobs with 1% health . . .

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T10 last night. Actually, T10 is a perfect example of a fight where this is great. I would also say T8, except that T8 is easier done as PLD tank. (and 5 dps)

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

I would also say T8, except that T8 is easier done as PLD tank. (and 5 dps)

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I'd say WAR's got it better. All big CDs available for each Dread and more DPS in tank stance. Only thing PLD has is Hallowed and Tempered Will for running through landmines. PLD also crossclasses Mercy Stroke so it can be used in the same way as WAR for T8.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I'd Tempered Will for running through landmines. .

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So sad I never thought of that, bravo!

Very related, this is a couple dungeons I did back to back
It's like an HP pinata, there's 0 reasons to not delay it a bit and possibly proc the heal
http://puu.sh/cRxsV/28c9cb8270.jpg

It is free damage. If doing solo content, you can use it all time. If doing small group dungeons, use it on an add near death, free heal. 8-man stuff, use on adds. Free extra damage not tied to the GCD when under 20%. All good things. Sure, it COULD be more useful if you could use it any time.

well now that storm's eye is a moot point all of what you wrote is tripe.

but, even with storm's eye down for a rotation the fracture dps will either even out the loss or provide more- along with each tick providing enmity- Fracture does not impede enmity or dps, you liar.

If you honestly think one GCD is that detrimental and you want to post a bunch of subjective and bias tests to prove it, that's your prerogative. However, the numbers don't lie, everyone can see how much potential potency fracture gives and how big those ticks can get if you set it up properly. Fracture belongs in a warriors rotation if they care about doing damage, period.

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Originally Posted by BIRDMAN

you want to post a bunch of subjective and bias tests to prove it, that's your prerogative. However, the numbers don't lie

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And yet, when I post mathematical evidence (i.e. #NUMBERS#), SOMEHOW I'm a liar. I'm happy to see your level of self-awareness hasn't improved in the slightest.

For those of you that are interested, Fracture is now a consistent ~1.13% DPS increase while tanking. You still consume ~28% more tp/2.5s gcd and delay Wrath generation, so, use it at your own peril.

The Storm's Eye duration buff makes Fracture more appealing than before, but I still contend that its opportunity cost, while tanking, remains too high for what it offers.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

And yet, when I post mathematical evidence (i.e. #NUMBERS#), SOMEHOW I'm a liar. I'm happy to see your level of self-awareness hasn't improved in the slightest.

For those of you that are interested, Fracture is now a consistent ~1.13% DPS increase while tanking. You still consume ~28% more tp/2.5s gcd and delay Wrath generation, so, use it at your own peril.

The Storm's Eye duration buff makes Fracture more appealing than before, but I still contend that its opportunity cost, while tanking, remains too high for what it offers.

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When MTing I don't really see the TP cost as a thing since WAR can last 6m in Defiance, so if WAR's in trouble (even using Fracture), every other TP user is in trouble.

The Wrath is definitely a downside though.

Answerin to op about mercy stroke, i would say that it is a great tool for us wars, not that much for the extra-heal it can bring even if it have allready saved my ass from death in dungeons, but for the simple extra n free dps it can bring, the crit under berserk unchain s.e reaches a decent amount of dmg which again is totally free on tp or gcd.
For those 2 reasons, i' ma usin it asap, n the more i can, tryin to time it correctly to get the heal proc on trashes or adds.

most jobs tend to have one or two useless skill and compared to some of them i don't think mercy strike that bad that it needs a sudden buff

Hi, as Mercy Stroke for WAR is not a cross-class skill, it doesn't seem much problem, you don't have to decide if you choose it or not. And it is enhanced, compared to other classes who have to choose that cross-class instead of another one that might also be useful.

I have it for the PLD for group content, and for solo content I put Cure instead.

In trash mobs it pops from time to time (and in some bosses, especially long living ones like in Syrcus Tower), an extra off GCD attack, and sometimes you get the heal. With the WAR, that I have recently leveled to 50, it happens the same, logically.

I wonder if for other classes it is usually used, my Monk is just level 33, Lancer 15 and Rogue 1, I chose Mercy Stroke for the Monk but I don't know if there are better choices if I had all the possible cross-class skills available.

Your highest hitting ability as Monk aside from dots is true strike with 190pot.
So yes 200pot mercy stroke is pretty nice.

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Originally Posted by TheodoreMcIntyre

A PVP skill that was put into the game before PVP and isn't actually listed with all the PVP skills?
Sacre bleu, mes amis!

No, but really, go away if you're gonna be like that.

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Maybe so but the thing is it really shines in PvP, getting 1300+ healing can be a game changer in 1vs2 situations.

For my Warrior I would like 400 TP on killing blow before useless HP 99% of the time, I so rarely get the killing blow in places when HP would matter but TP would make the difference.