FFXIV Dev, and Yoshida-san. Thank you :)

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Originally Posted by Velox

FFXIV forum logic = you're not allowed to enjoy new content or else you're a white knight and/or an idiot. If you're not miserable while playing a game, you're doing it wrong.

God I love people here ^-^

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Yup, is how these people work. I also like how they say that most of the playerbase is raging, when the forums hardly represent 5% of it.

Im happy with this update my self as well so ty SE:D

this thread makes me cringe so hard. 'thank you' for what? you pay for this game you know, you pay monthly for services that (whether you like it or not) are not being delivered. it doesn't matter if you're fine without personal housing, it doesn't matter whether or not you think it's okay - yoshida explicitly stated that the housing would be separate and the costs would be lower. i am someone who 'understands hardware' and i realise that this is a logistical nightmare.

let's talk supply and demand, since the big boy OP wants to speak like adults. how many players are there on your servers? how many houses are there available in wards? personal funds can and will scale to meet the size and scope of these houses, there are more free agents than free companies, the bulk of the wards will be bought by individual players.

is that a problem right now? no. is that a problem in 5 years when those people have left the game? yes. that's a massive problem. as you're 'someone who understands hardware' (can't get over that), you must understand that this is a disaster.

the FFXIV server structure is split, instances are reserved and generated on a need basis. i won't talk down to you, and i'll assume you know how FFXI's mog housing worked. what we needed for personal housing was small individual 'plots' that did not really exist on the server side, we didn't need wards, we don't need neighbours. personal housing should not have been equal to free company housing, it should've been instanced based and should've been invitation only. it boggles my mind that the developers thought this was an easier way to implement it.

i just don't know how anyone can find this acceptable, it speaks volumes about their ideas of longevity for the game. 5 years down the line, are we going to have 'ward 72'? surely you understand how impractical this is, to have so many servers reserving these areas, these areas actively existing within the world. yoshida says that they are working on some sort of new architecture that will allow them to endlessly create wards, but i'm not sure how much value we can place in his words.

even from a lore perspective it's very silly. personal housing would've filled a gap in the lore where our free adventurers do not have a place to sleep or relax. the free company housing initiative was clearly put in place for people to capitalise on the influx of new adventurers post-calamity, but it doesn't make a lot of sense that they would allow them to be bought by single adventurers. it also doesn't make a lot of sense that people would live in these massive buildings, designed as halls. they're not mansions, they lack features, they are blank and basic halls.

it's just impractical and unjustifiable, i would like the people who defend this idea to give me one good defense of it.

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Originally Posted by vientown

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I pay for my services and if something makes me happy. It just will, yes Yoshi lied. Yes he should be ashamed. But the way people are behaving right now is doing nothing but making the community look bad. Resign? Really? Overreacting much? It hasn't even been a day and I'm already tired of the children here. Anyone who is being mature suddenly is a "white knight" (really..?) I'm finding it interesting, it's perfectly fine to behave like a child. But if you're being mature and want to be happy..people want to jump at your throat.

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Originally Posted by vientown

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It's something called GOOD MANNERS. We deal with workers in our daily life, they provide services for us because they're getting paid to do so, but it's good manners to say "Thank you" for their service, at least I do, you probably don't. People can show appreciation too, it may come as a shock to you I know but not everyone considers this game as their only reason to exist in this world.

Now, not everyone cares about housing, and many that do, while they're disappointed by how it worked out they're not raging about it. Do you wanna know why? Because they're acting like ADULTS. Your attitude is that of a spoiled child, throwing a tantrum when something doesn't go your way and you label all those who share a different opinion than yours, call them white knights and the like.

If someone wants to make a thread of appreciation, what harm does it come to you? Does it ruin your hate train? Do you feel threatened by it? If little issues like this, unimportant, are causing this much rage in players, perhaps you should be using your money to seek help instead of playing games, because clearly you lot have severe issues that you should be checking instead of worrying about some make believe house.

I feed on all the rage that I see on the forum and I sincerely hope that every big patch that comes out brings this much rage, it's so satisfying to see how a little game can make so many people feel this miserable.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Anyone who is being mature suddenly is a "white knight" (really..?)

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No. Anyone who is thanking SE for not delivering and sympathizing with their plight because developing games is oh so hard, is a white knight.

My feelings on this patch are that there's a lot of QoL things they addressed. That's awesome. Housing? Another complete disaster that a large portion of the playerbase cannot participate in. It's another example of something that they really should have held back until it was actually done.

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Originally Posted by vientown

this thread makes me cringe so hard. 'thank you' for what? you pay for this game you know, you pay monthly for services that (whether you like it or not) are not being delivered. it doesn't matter if you're fine without personal housing, it doesn't matter whether or not you think it's okay - yoshida explicitly stated that the housing would be separate and the costs would be lower. i am someone who 'understands hardware' and i realise that this is a logistical nightmare.

let's talk supply and demand, since the big boy OP wants to speak like adults. how many players are there on your servers? how many houses are there available in wards? personal funds can and will scale to meet the size and scope of these houses, there are more free agents than free companies, the bulk of the wards will be bought by individual players.

is that a problem right now? no. is that a problem in 5 years when those people have left the game? yes. that's a massive problem. as you're 'someone who understands hardware' (can't get over that), you must understand that this is a disaster.

the FFXIV server structure is split, instances are reserved and generated on a need basis. i won't talk down to you, and i'll assume you know how FFXI's mog housing worked. what we needed for personal housing was small individual 'plots' that did not really exist on the server side, we didn't need wards, we don't need neighbours. personal housing should not have been equal to free company housing, it should've been instanced based and should've been invitation only. it boggles my mind that the developers thought this was an easier way to implement it.

i just don't know how anyone can find this acceptable, it speaks volumes about their ideas of longevity for the game. 5 years down the line, are we going to have 'ward 72'? surely you understand how impractical this is, to have so many servers reserving these areas, these areas actively existing within the world. yoshida says that they are working on some sort of new architecture that will allow them to endlessly create wards, but i'm not sure how much value we can place in his words.

even from a lore perspective it's very silly. personal housing would've filled a gap in the lore where our free adventurers do not have a place to sleep or relax. the free company housing initiative was clearly put in place for people to capitalise on the influx of new adventurers post-calamity, but it doesn't make a lot of sense that they would allow them to be bought by single adventurers. it also doesn't make a lot of sense that people would live in these massive buildings, designed as halls. they're not mansions, they lack features, they are blank and basic halls.

it's just impractical and unjustifiable, i would like the people who defend this idea to give me one good defense of it.

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Good points, and all that But if your looking for one good defense, this thread kinda already gave one (more than one actually), but you still make good points just a tad off topic, and focusing on something I didn't bring up, but as many have already pointed out...it's good to know that even though you didn't deliver every single thing, you did your best, and still a great patch.

Also I added your comments to the main post, since I liked it :)

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

No. Anyone who is thanking SE for not delivering and sympathizing with their plight because developing games is oh so hard, is a white knight.

My feelings on this patch are that there's a lot of QoL things they addressed. That's awesome. Housing? Another complete disaster that a large portion of the playerbase cannot participate in. It's another example of something that they really should have held back until it was actually done.

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Well people need to clarify that. Because it truly doesn't look that way.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

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this is lovely and all, but i'm not raging. it just doesn't make any sense. i laid out all of the reasons that this doesn't make any sense, and nobody has said anything contrary. you're sorely mistaken if you think i'm angry, but looking at your tone and the way you insolently refer to me as a child...i can see that you are. please try to calm down. you are halting polite discussion.

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Originally Posted by vientown

you're sorely mistaken if you think i'm angry, but looking at your tone and the way you insolently refer to me as a child...

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I like how you call others insolent when you entered this thread in one of the most condescending tones I've seen in a long time, and implied that the OP is a child.

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Originally Posted by vientown

let's talk supply and demand, since the big boy OP wants to speak like adults.

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Yeah, I totally can't see why this would make people think you childish.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

I also work in the Infrastructure section.

You know what I have to say?

Don't promise something that you can't deliver on when your Infrastructure isn't able to handle it. Put the money in the Infrastructure to upgrade or don't bother doing it the way you want to do it, and rather, do it so that you can do it with what you have.

Overreaching has repercussions. This is exactly what is happening.

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I couldn't agree more. I think it would have been a better idea to just hold off on personal housing til they could deliver something that doesn't feel like some cheap half-assed attempt and upset a lot of players. At the very least they could have given us the heads up in some sort of personal housing preview and let us know it would be limited till 2.4, just to lower the expectations.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

I wasn't aware that "drinking the kool-aid" had been redefined to refer to seeing and acknowledging the good in something despite the problems we have with it.

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Yes, but to some it's like considering the Black Death and saying "Well at least there's less pressure on housing now, what what?" Sure there's a good side to the personal housing, but to many it's seen as being dwarfed by the negatives.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

Yeah, I totally can't see why this would make people think you childish.

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the OP had originally dismissed the claims of people dissatisfied with the state of 'personal' housing, claiming that he 'understands hardware'. i just thought that it was rude of him to remove others' right to frustration by virtue of 'knowing more'. i felt that his tone was patronising and wanted to offer a rebuttal from someone similarly informed, however confrontational my post may have seemed. i find it troubling that so many on this forum would agree to someone saying 'no no, don't be disappointed, i understand more than you and i have verified it acceptable.'

the person who replied to me, however, was not anyone i had paid attention to or started a discussion with prior. his vitriol seemed misguided and genuinely concerning. it's funny that most of the replies to what i have said seem to be judgements on my character or conduct, i'd much rather have a response to my arguments.

though you are right, my phrasing was a little childish.

ARR is a business. Them not upgrading their hardware, as you're claiming, is failure on their end.

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Originally Posted by vientown

claiming that he 'understands hardware'.

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I understand hardware, too. I'm a server admin. That's why I can't fathom who YoshiP consulted with that told him this was the *best* way to do it. This is probably the most resource-hungry way to do it, considering the number of wards they are going to have to add. And for what? The occasional RP'er to wander through the wards when bored and say "oh look, another admiral shrine!!!"...

???

A year in the making, and they didn't really *add* anything. They just changed a bit of script so that players could purchase FC houses. Personal housing should have been much better than it is, and at this point the only thing that will save him is an EPIC Golden Saucer.

And I do mean epic. That's the last thing he has left to hold onto. He's going to have to hit that one out of the park.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

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WTB terrible latency-issue riddled chocobo racing Mario Kart clone or static bookmaker version. /s

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Originally Posted by vientown

WTB terrible latency-issue riddled chocobo racing Mario Kart clone or static bookmaker version. /s

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It still seems that you haven't read the entire thread. Also it seems you don't understand my thread, and all that jazz. So if you really want to have a real "big boy" conversation, I will gladly have one with you...on another thread, that you create, as for this thread it's about thanking the staff :)

But really, I will reply and we can have a battle of the witts if you will :) Let the victor bask in forum glory and the loser...win also?

-Tari

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Originally Posted by Meshico

We also promise things, and then back them out completely because of bugs that arise, that were not seen until implementation. And we normally don't tell them until the day before, or in most cases the day of (Because we are trying to resolve it, and when you fix one thing, sometimes something else rears its ugly arse head)

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That's not shady. Most places I've worked at happen that way because devs are human.

This is like is you being in a sprint and hiding what you're working on from a client or customer. Then you tell them you're going to release the software but will have random features.

Look at Guild Wars 2 news: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-ga...feature-packs/. Lots of info about future releases. World of Warcraft: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/warlords-of-draenor/#news. What do you see? Same.

Now go check out the Final Fantasy XIV news page: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/.

Way too many complaint threads and not enough positivity. I love this game and am very happy with it! No other MMO even comes close to compare to FFXIV for me. And I couldn't care less about personal housing and am very content with our FC's house. Thank you, Yoshi-P, for an excellent gaming experience! *steps on the haters and uses their bodies as a staircase to reach never-ending fabulousness* /unicorns

Yeah thanks for lying and giving us nothing. Unhoused FCs would also like to thank you for taking away their plots.

OP restores a tiny shred of hope left in my heart for this community.

I have to add my two cents here for what it's worth (which, is, by definition, two cents :P). I agree and accept the changes to the housing, I understand limitations and setbacks, difficulties and troubles with all of the little nuances of making it work. However...in the end, while I am still 110% behind the game (heck, I've been playing since 1.x's beta if that tells you anything) this is the first time I have felt genuinely disappointed. I'm not upset, just...disappointed.
communication was something this team has been so forward with, but lately it's seemed that less and less communication with other cultures is happening. Fewer of the live letters are featuring subtitles and many are now outright saying they will not be subtitled at all, so we cannot watch the letters to get the intent behind things. Instead we have to read a partial translation or find another member who can translate and trust what they provide us. This...saddens me so much.
Reaching out and reassuring the players is what has made this dev team have so much support. This whole situation with housing has been a monumental flub but, it's one that could have been avoided with the amount of backlash if they had taken the time as they used to and TALKED to us. I look forward to seeing what will come of everything and I do not feel negative about the housing at all, lots of hopes for it to change in the future, but the end of it now is that personal housing has been made useless because of private chambers. Aside from garden access, at this moment in time, there is absolutely no difference. I will save my gil up and see what happens next.
Yoshi P, thank you for saving a game I had already been willing to invest in.

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Originally Posted by Casper

Wow the whole 10 of you that liked OP are satisfied with XIV direction ? Well that's going to be a resounding success !

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They get special butt kissing minions I was told. And they glow like white knight armor.

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

They get special butt kissing minions I was told. And they glow like white knight armor.

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Oh no some one has a different opinion than you! Please get over yourself.

Hey Meshico, you got some kind of curly hair stuck in your teeth...

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Originally Posted by Meshico

There are some of us <me, and my friends> that actually understand how hardware works

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I am glad there is a post which appreciates their work. Should they read it, I am sure it will put a smile on their faces.

I might have interpreted it wrongly, but with actually as a keyword, you make it sound like you and your buddies are a special breed. I know a little something about developing too and as a developer I know the people, humans, who use my product will judge the result. Of course, lots of emotional judgements going on. I don't excpect otherwise because it has always been like this. I am sure SE knows this.

What I would do differently is give people a heads up in time. People, rightly so, expect great vision when it comes to this. Why else would they pay if the future is uncertain? These heated threads weren't born today. They added up because of the numerous "due to console/server limitation/memory....... we will look into it" dev responses.

I am glad we had some great QoL changes again. These aren't even noted on this forums because people are too busy with what is going on. The thing I am worried about now is 2.4. People will expect them to deliver twice as good. Let's hope SE knows how to hype (not over-hype) a patch so people can calm down and actually notice this game is so awesome you want all your friends to try it out too.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

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Your right, that might sound or be interpreted as condescending I will edit that out. Thank you for your feedback, and a post about the OP :)

Actually I'm going to include this as well. In the OP.

Housing's a flaming train-wreck right now and will probably continue to be going forward unless they rush out city stables, indoor planters and apartment blocks - but everything else in patch 2.38 was damn lovely and that's a pretty long list of stuff.

Thank you SE, for trying. That really sums this whole experience, ever since 1.0 Alpha. Thank you Tanaka for trying, Thank you Yoshida for trying. Thank you SE for trying. You will not please everyone. But thank you, for trying.

I am not a developer. I am not in charge of hundreds of highly trained people who are skilled at various jobs required to make a game as complex as this. I am definitely sure that in time, this will blow over just like FC housing did. I know when you release Golden Saucer, that it will cause riots and people will complain. So in advance, thank you for trying.

I do have a suggestion though, if you will hear me out. A small one really. That is this. "Why not have a survey?" For things such as pricing? Ask us how much we are willing to pay for such things like a large house, a middle house. a small house. Ask us, if we want personal housing at all? or a zone like the personal rooms in the FC, but bigger, much much bigger. Have a survey about all sorts of things, not just housing, but about future classes, races, even content.. Then go from there.. Sure you can definately stick to your "story line" and "lore" but none of it matters if the content is not up to par. ASk us if we reaally want to grind fates for the next Relic or if we would rather grind dungeons or spiritbind(soulbind?).. take a good long look at how we feel about your game design.

I for one, love this game. It is full of love, I know. Because I poured my heart into it. I know I am not alone in this. So please, listen to us.. Listen to us when we cry, when we scream.. "Let us help you!" Let us.. be part of your team. We don't need monetary payment.. We just want our home.. Our digital Haven.. To be the best it can be.. So thank you for trying.. but you can't do this alone. So let us take some of the burden.