Hey Yoshi, you said personal housing "will be far more affordable."

Oh, I am sure the average is high... the problem is that the distribution isn't even. It's RMT bots and people that buy from them... and everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Focus will always be on the prices at release, but after one month these prices will be halved. The average amount of gil in possession is much greater than you all imagine, and we are concerned that if we were to lower the cost of land for personal housing any further it would exacerbate problems like RMT and the purchase of land by secondary characters.

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I think if anything, higher prices will temp more people to do RMT, as coming up with that kind of gil is only easy for the people that know how to work the market otherwise.

Also, why not give account limits on housing? I can see the remedy for making secondary land purchase, just making it so you can only buy one plot of land per server per account.

so you couldnt set rules one house per account, that would keep people from buying houses for alternate characters. I have 2 characters, my sum total gil is only 7 mil at the most and thats just from hoarding not buying anything major off the MB WAITING for housing, maybe you should put gil caps. as far as rmt goes the astronomical amount of gil needed if i were staying with this game would push me to use an rmt just so i could get the gil i needed to buy a house. you wanna stop rmt for housing which is total BS sell them on the mog station for real money as well as having a gil price. This was the one thing that i was holding out for just to see if I would stay til 4.0. I think these numbers are made up talking with people around the fc im in and it should have been 2.5 mil small 5 mil medium and 10 mil large making it in the end 1 mil, 2.5 mil, 5 mil which would have been much more fare. It seems every Patch when something really exciting is about to come along you guys manage to ruin the fun in it. atma has been out for how long and Im still missing some. With what your doing to this game, its not for me waiting each patch for it to get better is like picking a scab. peace out...

Also...average gil per player? really? how broken is the stat?
Unless you filter it by the largest amount of players having around the same gil and use them as common denominator....otherwise the calculation is useless.

Player 1 & 2 are bots working for RMTs: each has 100m
Player 3 & 4 are master crafters: each has 50m.
Player 5 to 20: each ahs around 2m.

"hey that server has 332m gil running around, that's 16,6m each player.....houses at 5m is okay"

Geez, I feel so special. I have a small personal house and everyone keeps saying I'm elite, the top 1%, etc etc.

Could have sworn I was just a scrub who spiritbonds once a week for an hour or two.

Why cant you guys add a Free room (like the MH of 11) that we can fix up like we could with the MH?

I'm sorry Yoshi's response is pathetic and lacks complete empathy with the playerbase. There are so many things wrong with the way this has been implemented. It feels as if another solution was on the books but that wasn't going to be pushed out in time and instead, they released this.

Personal housing should not be a luxury, it should be a bit of fun and open to all. It is not content, it is fun. We're not playing the The Sims here.

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Originally Posted by Eldelphia

I'm sorry Yoshi's response is pathetic and lacks complete empathy with the playerbase. There are so many things wrong with the way this has been implemented. It feels as if another solution was on the books but that wasn't going to be pushed out in time and instead, they released this.

Personal housing should not be a luxury, it should be a bit of fun and open to all. It is not content, it is fun. We're not playing the The Sims here.

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Because this is a dress up game. Every rare, elusive item in the game is a piece of vanity gear: the EX mounts, housing, the 3-star level 1 items, minions, etc. are all incredibly hard to get, while gear drops like rain. This is a free to play MMO you pay a subscription for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnvZcB1WRA

At this rate, YoshiP will crack. He's only one human being.

Well, I too think, that setting up such prices encourages people to buy from RMT.

Then again I also think, that there are some super rich players but also those who only have stuff to sell from their ventures or the money they earned through the mainstory questline which isn't really that much.

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Originally Posted by Erudain

Also...average gil per player? really? how broken is the stat?
Unless you filter it by the largest amount of players having around the same gil and use them as common denominator....otherwise the calculation is useless.

Player 1 & 2 are bots working for RMTs: each has 100m
Player 3 & 4 are master crafters: each has 50m.
Player 5 to 20: each ahs around 2m.

"hey that server has 332m gil running around, that's 16,6m each player.....houses at 5m is okay"

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To be fair, Medians and Modes are types of 'average'. It's just 'mean' is most commonly what people mean when they say average.

I'm pretty sure SE knows their statistics and accounts for stuff like this. Now that does not mean I agree with their decision... well more than that I feel pretty betrayed...... but I don't think statistical information is the problem. To add to that, the 1.x surveys* showed pretty massive interest in housing as well.

At this point I think they're just doing damage control and I don't think we're going to hear anything resembling a real reason for what they're doing. But I hope they'll make good in time...




* In case anyone isn't familiar with these, when Yoshi took over 1.0, he did quite a bit of collecting of feedback, including in the form of surveys, on the direction players wanted to see the game go.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello,

The following is a comment from Producer and Director Naoki Yoshida.

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Well now that personal housing is out (if you consider allowing one person to own a FC house personal housing) no FC will ever have a chance to get a house. This is completely alienating newly joining players and will not end well. My friends and I were planning on getting a house together after forming our own FC in one of the already limited spots available from large FCs buying multiple small land plots by creating secondary FCs. At this point I'd rather they just remove the option for personal housing and refund everyone that bought it. This isn't working, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Doopis

Well now that personal housing is out (if you consider allowing one person to own a FC house personal housing) no FC will ever have a chance to get a house. This is completely alienating newly joining players and will not end well. My friends and I were planning on getting a house together after forming our own FC in one of the already limited spots available from large FCs buying multiple small land plots by creating secondary FCs. At this point I'd rather they just remove the option for personal housing and refund everyone that bought it. This isn't working, obviously.

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Well, they've managed to bring all the FUBAR of the XI economy to XIV.. without any of the variety!

You do know SE never promised anything so its not a lie

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

At this rate, YoshiP will crack. He's only one human being.

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Or he'll jsut do what he always does: Ignore it an hope it goes away.

Who knows? He might release a new emote in a week to draw everyone's attention away from this.

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Originally Posted by Zileth

You do know SE never promised anything so its not a lie

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I REALLY have a lot of things I need to sell you.

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Originally Posted by Zileth

You do know SE never promised anything so its not a lie

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I wish, in my job, I could tell people I'll have system X up and running or make changes to system Y, not deliver, and then have people defend me like this...

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Originally Posted by Velox

Especially given how each Housing area has a road that goes off to some blocked area (I was so sure that would have been the personal housing district). Now I wonder where those roads will lead to in the future.

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An area for the extra elite, instead of prices going down every 6 hours they will go up. :D

At this point i'd be happier if they cash gouged me and made an instanced housing void that I can purchase as a dlc/optional expansion. (Quests to expand land size). I've seen a few people happy about the community aspect of having a shared district but personally I couldn't care less, I'd rather have more space and control over the environment (like a number of other MMORPGs that generally get great recognition for their systems).

I feel bad for the reps when they have to be the messenger of this kind of stuff, there really isn't a good excuse for the lack of information and misinformation - so anything they get to post is going to turn into shoot the messenger XD.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In my reply, I wrote: “I can say that prices will be completely separate from Free Company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.”

What this meant was the following:

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You know, at some point, you really ought to notice that this happens a lot and try a little harder with your communication and translations. Quite a lot of what gets posted/translated could be interpreted multiple ways, and there's hardly ever any additional clarification.

And it's not like there weren't months of posts by tons of people obviously interpreting those statements the way they did. Plenty of opportunity to say "Hey, guys, that's not what we meant."

Just go back a day later and read what you've posted, read the replies, and freakin' say something if people are reading it wrong. Eventually, you might get the hang of catching things that could easily be misinterpreted before they're posted and find a different way to say them.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

That... is an idiotic response. Yoshi-P said himself that hose wards are huge server sinks. It would make more sense to create instanced personal housing and reduce the number of free company wards as they become ghost towns.

I know SE has absolutely no experience creating instanced content; what with their big, open world and dynamic server-wide events, but you're smart. You can figure it out.

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Cant tell if you are being for real or sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

At this rate, YoshiP will crack. He's only one human being.

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Not to be rude or disrespectful, but he should have through this through before accepting the job. He should know full well what being a producer of a MMO appealing world-wide and the kind of reactions he will get.

On topic, the explanation just does not do it for me. I am sorry but there is only so many times that one thing can be said and another, complete opposite thing done. I unsubbed.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I won't bash Camate for being the messenger, but I will call out Yoshi for giving the impression (well, outright saying, actually.... regardless of the post-2.38 spin he puts on it) that the system would be accessible and saying NOTHING until it's dropped on us.

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Unfortunately, I don't think you should be calling out anyone.

The prices are indeed correct. It is indeed close to 800k gil in TRUE VALUE.

For someone who likes to creep in and out of the markets forums and says he understands the market there, you should understand that 800k gil in value @ 2.1 is approximately 6-8 million gil at the current time. We have seen inflation in MMOs for nearly 20 years and today, for some odd reason, it just suddenly disappeared here. Like this is the first time everyone has ever seen prices adjusted for inflation.

I clearly recall in The Burning Crusade that the flying mount was substantially much more expensive than the 80 gold ground mount and the mammoth mount in WoTLK was far more expensive than that. Inflation has been around and still is.

We knew early on based off FC lot release that prices were determined accordingly to the economy and overall gil. Meaning, more than likely, it was going to be the same for housing for 2.38. Its based off the current overall gil now @ 2.38, not at 2.1.

The value of a single piece of gil has DROPPED since 2.1. Based off my speculation on the market the current value of "1 gil" now is worth about 1/8 of what it was worth at 2.1. SE, probably made it cheaper just to compensate for players who really had a difficult time making gil and dropped it even lower. If we were to match gil for gil from 2.1 to 2.38, I'm thinking 6-8 million gil per house. 4 million was very nice and definitely much affordable and definitely LESS than the 800k gil TRUE value @ 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Zileth

Cant tell if you are being for real or sarcastic.

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Can't I be both? first paragraph real, second paragraph sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by Meier

Not to be rude or disrespectful, but he should have through this through before accepting the job. He should know full well what being a producer of a MMO appealing world-wide and the kind of reactions he will get.

On topic, the explanation just does not do it for me. I am sorry but there is only so many times that one thing can be said and another, complete opposite thing done. I unsubbed.

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Oh trust me I agree with the complaints. I'm just saying it's inevitable. The dude's gonna go insane lol.

Apprently they are very affordable the small houses at least. If you look at any legacy or high pop server the small houses for the entire server were gone in like 30 min to about 2 hours on almost every legacy server. That is a fast sell out rate meaning they could of been more expensive if they were going to sell out in 30 min.

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

Oh trust me I agree with the complaints. I'm just saying it's inevitable. The dude's gonna go insane lol.

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Oh, lol. Yeah, most likely. :(

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

At this rate, YoshiP will crack. He's only one human being.

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...you know, as a human, I do sympathize with the guy. He's got a lot of pressure from all sorts of sources and I do believe he's trying to do his best. But. As a professional. He has responsibilities. At the very very least, he and his team should have been more communicative, and these after the fact posts trying to justify, "Oh but that's not what I meant!" aren't helping things. Look at that original post I linked, right after Yoshi's post 9 months ago, people are posting about how relieved they are and such. It's pretty clear, even back then, how people were interpreting his post.

I do hope the producer doesn't burn out and stays healthy, but that doesn't excuse this whole thing. Even if it's just something like, "Sorry, having shared neighborhoods is waaay more strain than we thought it would be. We'll have to instance and we're pushing this back until 3.0", that (to me) would be a lot more acceptable than stringing us along like this and spinning it after the fact.

But.

It's not too late to apologize, and share future plans to fix this.

Just make personal housing an instanced area with a small house/garden which we can upgrade the size of when we have enough money for it.

This isnt about the fact that the patches change from live letters... Youre a fool to believe that.

Its about the fact that hes using false marketing to hold on to your monthly pay.

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Originally Posted by Coris

Well, I too think, that setting up such prices encourages people to buy from RMT.

Then again I also think, that there are some super rich players but also those who only have stuff to sell from their ventures or the money they earned through the mainstory questline which isn't really that much.

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To add to my previous post:

I still don't feel like competing with FCs which have been hoping and waiting to get a small plot for their group of players/friends. Personally I'd feel as if I'd taken something from them.
Just this weekend I was talking with a friend who said, they wished for buying a small house but only spaces in Ul'dah were left and this didn't appeal to them. Now I don't really want to know what they might be thinking when they log in this night and see all small wards being sold out again... Even in Ul'dah.

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Originally Posted by Tule

Although unreliable you could technically sell your plot's availability. Relinquishing your plot at a specific time while someone readies to purchase it.

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Some games have implemented a somewhat randomized time interval between release of a house and making it available again, in order to combat this problem. Hopefully SE would do the same, but given how horribly they've managed everything else here, I doubt they will.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

in order to stimulate the in-game economy after Patch 2.1, we increased the methods in which you can obtain gil and the average amount of gil all players possess increased severalfold.

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I think you're basing way too much on the average amount of gil when you should instead be looking at the median amount. The average is way overblown by a few outliers who have chosen gil-gathering to be the sole focus of thier gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Camate

However, reading this again, I realize that this statement is extremely unclear. Also, because I wrote this quickly to try to quell the uneasiness at the time, I ended up causing even more problems for everyone.

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That's fine, but leaving that statement completely unaltered for 9 months was irresponsible.

If the dev-team knew things would change, why not at least tell us in advance? To avoid the negative feedback they're getting now anyway?

Look, I don't even care for Personal Housing at all. In fact I didn't even get a personal room when I had the chance, but I do disagree with how this was handled. It's not even the decision itself, it's just this need to never tell us anything at all and then try to justify it afterwards. Explain these things to us BEFOREHAND and see how many less people complain. Sure you'll get the usual amount of outcry but not nearly at this level.

Also, no shit the average amount of gil has increased. Everyone was saving up for the personal housing YOU said would be affordable.

Trust me, had they known in advance how much it would cost they would not even try to hoard that much gil.

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Originally Posted by FreakinZMartin

Just make personal housing an instanced area with a small house/garden which we can upgrade the size of when we have enough money for it.

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That would require some effort. No sorry we'll just re-use all those lots which we didn't have enough of to begin with. GG.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Unfortunately, I don't think you should be calling out anyone.

The prices are indeed correct. It is indeed close to 800k gil in TRUE VALUE

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Yoshi never said 800k. (or 850k) Anywhere. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Apprently they are very affordable the small houses at least. If you look at any legacy or high pop server the small houses for the entire server were gone in like 30 min to about 2 hours on almost every legacy server. That is a fast sell out rate meaning they could of been more expensive if they were going to sell out in 30 min.

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Mine was sold out within 13 minutes or so. Some FCs bought them up, some big name crafters I recognized from market board activity and such.

But what I really like is how at first FC housing prices weren't something the average player was supposed to afford alone, we're supposed to work together. Now suddenly it's so cheap and reasonable for the individual*.

* As long as you're a master crafter that spends hours each day working the markets and has been playing the game from the start.

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Originally Posted by Colino

but I do disagree with how this was handled. It's not even the decision itself, it's just this need to never tell us anything at all and then try to justify it afterwards. Explain these things to us BEFOREHAND and see how many less people complain. Sure you'll get the usual amount of outcry but not nearly at this level.

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This.

They have a habit of doing these "we planned to survey it... then we decided to stop the implementation of more echo etc... and didn't tell you until AFTER the planned drop!"

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Originally Posted by Bixby

Just go back a day later and read what you've posted, read the replies, and freakin' say something if people are reading it wrong. Eventually, you might get the hang of catching things that could easily be misinterpreted before they're posted and find a different way to say them.

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And for me that's the crux of the argument. If you knew you were being misinterpreted, say so earlier. Not AFTER the negative feedback starts because you need an excuse of some sort.

What's funny is that despite the fact I'm both a crafter AND a 1.0 player I've never even seen a million gil at any one time, let alone 5mil. Maybe I'm alone in this, but it seems a very lofty price for a single player to fork out for personal housing.

It's not even about the money for me. I feel geniunely cheated out of content. I can afford a house. Point is I didn't want an FC house or indeed a house within an FC ward.

Wow.

I'm literally in disbelief.
People are unsubbing over this?

Childish.

Likely the kid who demands to be player 1, and when they can't be, they take their game and go home.


I try not to be too terribly vocal on these issues, but seriously, do you guys not recall how scarce Gil was when he made the announcement back in December?
I had -maybe- 1.2 million, and I manipulate shard markets all the time.
I have just under 20 million Gil now. I don't try any harder. I don't put in a ton of extra time versus 2.0 working the boards.

As an individual player, I even see this.
When roulettes and endless myth/seal mats and gimmie gimmie gear made two star crafts easy as pie to HQ, Gil just began raining from the heavens.

Inflation is real in any economy.
Would you sue Sears because they advertised a radio in 1950 for 7$, and now it's 30$?

Just use context, drop the QQ, and either save your Gil or wait until you can afford it.
Christ.

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The reason why Free Company houses and personal houses are in the same areas■

The biggest reason is to ensure the effective utilization of land. FFXIV is entering a stable period and the amount of newly created Free Companies is gently declining, therefore the demand for new Free Company houses will also decline. Additionally, with expansions to the land sale feature, after the demand for land has been fulfilled there will gradually be land openings in the wards.

On the other hand, when it comes to personal housing, with the constant increase in the amount of gil everyone possesses, as time passes the demand for personal housing will increase and a large amount of open land will be necessary.

If we were to separate Free Company housing and personal housing into different areas, in the event that Free Company land opens up I believe we would then receive requests asking to make it possible to build personal houses on those plots. So in order to balance the two we made it possible to purchase land in the same housing areas and feel this will allow for land to be utilized efficiently.

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Kinda sounds like they're already seeing or at least preparing and expecting a substantial drop in the player base and more importantly in subscriptions, enough so the smaller FCs start disbanding and plots start opening up. I guess it is to be expected with these kinds of WoW clones and with the korean launch coming up.

People unsub form games they don't like anymore and take their business elsewhere, more news at 11. Remember, always vote with your wallet.