Petition: make Allied Seals a reward for PVP too

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Originally Posted by Deelo

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Allied seals are not available from almost anything?
I apologize if I do not see your point clearly as it is comparing Bananas to Carrots, both are currency (tube shaped) but are completely different when discussed on what it has purpose to be (fruit/vegetable). If I am not misunderstanding your sentence structuring, you are saying allied seals will not give access to i110 gear because of the soldiery week total? However by timeframe, the point of item 110 gear will lose its meaning to obtain as 2 weeks for 1 item is not difficult since you will have many sands of time by then, it will serve as quick way to boost participation then die down much faster again when 2.4 is released or in worse case 1 week later? This problem was addressed before Sand of Time is added into Syrcus Tower and will only be done so tomorrow after a very long while.

I can see rationale in maybe 2.4 when Third Coil of Bahamut is released and item 110 gear is the new standards for gear, this also means the people who work harder with Third Coil will be in item 120 gear and others will have 110 from Second Coil of Bahamut or as I mention, Sands from Syrcus Tower tomorrow. Am I wrong to mention such Allied Seals solution is temporary and holds little water?

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

Allied seals are not available from almost anything?
If I am not misunderstanding your sentence structuring, you are saying allied seals will not give access to i110 gear because of the soldiery week total?

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I think reading comprehension is the issue here. I'll try to break it down. Soldiery is required to get weathered i100 gear. Allied Seals, which are only obtained from hunts can be used to buy sand/oil of time. Sand and oils are used to upgrade (not buy) the weathered gear to i110. In the process of gaining the Soldiery i110 gear, you cannot have one without the other. Before you jumped in, I was responding to this:

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

This is a forbidden door that should not be open until new ilvl pve gear is out and allied seals no longer a current in game currency.

The only possibility that allied seals can become as PvP reward is that when it is no longer a current hottest in game currency. It should only make its way to PvP when it can not be used to exchange latest PvE gear.

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, this looks like Divine is worried that people will somehow be able to obtain Soldiery i110 gear easier or at a faster rate if Allied Seals were added to Frontlines. That is not true because the Soldiery cap will not allow it. Let's say SE adds Allied Seals to Frontlines...if you sit and spam it all day for Allied Seals in hopes to get Soldiery i110 gear, all you will end up with is a bunch of Sand/Oil that will sit in your inventory until you have enough Soldiery to buy the i100 parts that are needed for the Sand/Oil. This is currently how it is for people that do a lot of hunts. Allied Seals alone will not give you access to Soldiery i110 gear. Adding Allied Seals to Frontlines will only provide the option of not having teleport competitions. Gear progression will remain the same because of the Soldiery cap.

SE has already made Allied Seals incredibly easy to get. They did that, not us. This thread is asking SE to add (not take away from hunts) an option to gain Allied Seals while actually enjoying the game.

I don't really see it as that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Divine is only concerned about the health of PVP in game. Meaning, if they add in Allied Seals to Frontlines, it will turn a fun experience into a rage-filled, hate-filled zerg fest (aka Hunts are on most servers) with people that don't give a crap about PVP as they're only in it for the Allied Seals, thus ruining the experience for those of us that love to play Frontlines because it is fun.

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Originally Posted by Deelo

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, this looks like Divine is worried that people will somehow be able to obtain Soldiery i110 gear easier or at a faster rate if Allied Seals were added to Frontlines. SE has already made Allied Seals incredibly easy to get. They did that, not us. This thread is asking SE to add (not take away from hunts) an option to gain Allied Seals while actually enjoying the game.

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No, that is cut and paste and yes you are wrong. It is almost looks like putting words into my mouth.


My points are clear:

1. Allied seals is not an option to increase the size of Chaos PvP population.
2. Allied seals is not going to address queue time issue because Malestorm is still going to be utterly their best choice. Even I like that Red and Black color scheme, it is much better than Yellow and Green for Twin Adders.
3. If you want to give people an initiative to play PvP, you need to have a reward that is bound to achivement, not give out free tokens. You need a rare item that is obtainable from PvP only. (from other discussion thread)
4. Continue from above point. This reward also have to be unique for each Grand Company. This is the only resolution to flush people out of Malestorm or horading into one specific Grand Company.
5. Allied seals will only bring more PvE players from Malestorm that is further worst the queue time for Malestorm players.
6. Allied seals will encouring leeching as most of these Hunters are there for allied seals, not to PvP.
7. Frontline should not be an option to offer alternative easier access of allied seals. You will be killing the content because why people would waste time on hunting S and A rank when you can get it faster from the Frontline.
8. Those Hunters (Malestorm) will start to complain about queue time. What is the next step? Do we have to break the Frontline core concept to make these people happy? What will happen after they farmed their seals or seals is no longer give them latest tier gear (for example, ilvl 120 gear in the future patch)? They are like locust, and will move on once they lost interest in the allied seals. What will happen to the PvP? A pool of dead water and Chaos is still left with no established PvP community.

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Originally Posted by Deelo

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I am aware that I have commented on something which you were not focused on but did I not make my own point with your reasoning you have given? I may not understand English very well if the person is not being clear in the things that they are saying? I am sorry if my comprehension as a non-native speaker is not as acute as you would want it to be but it is no reason to be disrespectful in pointing it out.

I was replying to this:

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Originally Posted by Deelo

If these are already available from almost anything, what is the big deal about adding Allied Seals to Frontlines? That was the point I was trying to make.

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From my understanding, "these" - the second word, refers to Soldiery and Mythology which I highlighted in my post you quoted.
You then mentioned what is the 'big deal' about adding Allied Seals to Frontlines?
You concluded your post toward me saying this was your point.
Am I right to say this?

By doing so, your addressed post to me was summed up to be what has been mentioned for this thread to add Allied Seals to the rewards, without any other secondary point, on basis that Soldiery and mythology are currency that has had the same treatment.

My point toward you with my last post, in reply to this was that Allied Seals are not Soldiery and Mythology. They are Currency in category but they serve different purposes than Allied Seals at the moment: being the currency to give incentive to do Hunts and to give newer players experience in doing hunts for those who want to try it?

By adding it to PvP reward and knowing how the NA players have partitioned many times on their problems they experience, is it fair for me to then draw the conclusion that majority of the players will PvP and not do hunts? I was rudely accused incorrectly by another poster that I ignore the minority, when I do not. In this scenario I have drawn in form of question, hunts may not be done if PvP rewarded so much? If so, would you not be ignoring the minority who want hunts to stay the way it is as the seals are the only reward differentiating it from the other aspects of the game?

You can tell me that they made Seals simple to get but you do not have cause to make it any simpler by suggestion.
Who allowed that? Is it not odd that you would assume because by personal opinion that something is easy, that it should be put in Frontlines as a result?
I am sorry but I do not agree with such rationale.

By saying such a thing, you would also be saying to put it as a quest reward for Beastmen quests and roulette rewards, as it is easy to obtain. This would not make sense at all and hunting gear as well as all related items to hunts should be made into items to craft instead.

Why did the developers not do this? That should give you an idea? The NA playerbase from what I have read here enjoy doing things for the sake of doing it rather than doing things for the fun of doing it, so Allied Seals will give you many players for a short time until they obtain what they want, they will leave after a short while as they are done.

Such suggestion are not what the developing team would consider as the foundation is very fragile for decision.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I don't really see it as that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Divine is only concerned about the health of PVP in game. Meaning, if they add in Allied Seals to Frontlines, it will turn a fun experience into a rage-filled, hate-filled zerg fest (aka Hunts are on most servers) with people that don't give a crap about PVP as they're only in it for the Allied Seals, thus ruining the experience for those of us that love to play Frontlines because it is fun.

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I understand and that is a great point that I agree with. Having a calculated amount of Allied Seals will solve that issue. I'm not asking to replace Hunts, just to have a lesser option. The whole 'adding pve stuff to pvp to attract more people' was introduced when SE added Myth and Sol to Frontlines. Again, they did that, not us. Take notice of the amounts given. The amount of Myth and Sol was calculated in a way that keeps the trolls out (because there are easy ways to get more vs. time spent) while intriguing new players to pvp. Don't get me wrong, I do it for the PVP too. I've been Rank 40 for a while now and I still que every chance I get, but I do find it pretty nice that I'm also (slowly) capping Myth and Sol in the meantime. The zerglings will always choose the easiest option for gaining seals. I don't want Frontlines to be that. I believe 15 (1st place), 8 (2nd place), and 3 (3rd place) Allied Seals will keep from ruining the experience.

Hell, if it was up to me, Frontlines would start at Level 10 and give XP rewards equivalent to a FATE (for the winning team) of your current level. If I could do nothing but PVP, I would lol.

I agree and don't agree
I don't know what I think about it tbh
I'm on Chaos cluster too and I just want rank 40, I don't want to spend my freetime queueing for 100min+ to do one game.
And allied seals would make more people play. But at the same time I agree with that other one above me^
The hunts are filled with angry people and I don't like them and I don't want them to ruin frontlines because currently it's the most fun in this game for me.
So I have to decide wether I wanna play 2 games a day and reach rank 40 in a couple of months, or if I want angry people to join and maybe not make it so much fun anymore.

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

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I meant no disrespect, I wasn't sure if you were understanding me. I'm not asking for hunts to be replaced. Much like everyone else, I would hate to see Frontlines polluted. The same opposition I see on this topic were expressed in the past about SE adding Soldiery to PVP. The pitchforks were even sharper back then. People thought it would be the end of days and baby jesus would cry tears of blood because all the bads would join pvp just for the sol and ruin everything. Turned out it was only 10 Soldiery then nobody cared anymore. This is no different.

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Originally Posted by Deelo

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I understand you meant no disrespect but the point was there was little need to phrase the first short sentence like you did.
I do understand you do not want to replace hunts since that will ruin the entire idea of 1 aspect, which then makes the suggestion pointless.

Seals at the moment are hunt-exclusive currency meant to promote hunts since it is still a new aspect of the game. Just by this alone is basis on why it can not be used or offered in any other part of the game? I gathered this from listening to many of the Dev videos and posts.

I am unsure of what happened here when soldiery was being introduced into Frontlines but was it not a rational topic to discuss at all? Soldiery is Mythology for the period of the Second Coil of Bahamut which conveys unwritten rule that it will be offered in almost all aspects.

Allied Seals does not share this trait as it is a Hunt-exclusive currency introduced with hunts; meant to promote Hunting and interest in Hunting only. I do not think Developers will use it as a bargain coin to make more people PvP? If Hunts have little usage in future then I can see your suggestion happening or if new hunt currency is introduced, then this old currency Allied Seals can be offered in PvP since the new hunt currency is promoting Hunts instead.
As I said above in the longer post, the developers have mentioned other plans when questioned about PvP and how they want to introduce other types of incentives so I am more of the belief they will not be using Allied Seals as the solution?

I do not debate on the fun of the game since that topic is very personal and nothing can come of a discussion of personal feelings so I will not comment on how feelings can be negative or positive.

I'll say this again since I might haven't been clear enough: the whole point of this thread is to increase the PVE rewards received after PVP matches in order to get more people play PVP; nothing less, nothing more.

As for the rewards, I could have chosen more tomestones, crafting mats, materia, or even gil, but I chose Allied Seals because right now they are probably the most sought-after currency in the game, there is no other way to get them outside of Hunts and they make hunting overcrowded as a consequence. I don't care if adding them to PVP might lure the "dreaded hunting zerglings" into it (which I doubt since hunting would probably remain the easiest option to those who have been doing it for months), playing with some of them would still be better than not playing at all. And besides, unlike Hunts, you cannot just feel entitled to your reward and be a leecher in a PVP match, you'd have to work hard for it.

Some of you might say that when the new 120-whatever gear will come out in the next patch, they will stop playing PVP and move on to the next hot PVE thing:
well, first we don't know if they will ever add more stuff obtainable through Allied Seals;
second, in the case Allied Seals really became obselete, why not giving people the option to get the next hot PVE thing from PVP as well? Just keep updating the PVP rewards after each major patch;
third, most people actually do like PVP (especially frontlines), they just have no reason to play it outside of pure enjoyment.

We won't see any major changes in the PVP structure anytime soon (2.5 maybe, but it's still unlikely), so for now giving such rewards is the only real way to have more people play PVP.

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Originally Posted by Hammerfist

We won't see any major changes in the PVP structure anytime soon (2.5 maybe, but it's still unlikely), so for now giving such rewards is the only real way to have more people play PVP.

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Good attempt, but allied seals is a bad choice. Hunter mob is a group of people we don't want to have. Tasha idea of exchanging materia with wolf mark sounds more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Good attempt, but allied seals is a bad choice. Hunter mob is a group of people we don't want to have. Tasha idea of exchanging materia with wolf mark sounds more interesting.

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Exchanging materia with wolf marks is indeed a good idea (it's another valuable PVE reward after all), but IMHO it won't be enough to make PVP alive again, there's the need of something much more "attractive".

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

1. Allied seals is not an option to increase the size of Chaos PvP population.

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First, Chaos is not the only server with these problems. That asside, yes, Allied seals can bring more people in PvP because of the current value of this currency.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

2. Allied seals is not going to address queue time issue because Malestorm is still going to be utterly their best choice. Even I like that Red and Black color scheme, it is much better than Yellow and Green for Twin Adders.

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If a lot of people change their GC to the Maelstorm, you'll have more disparity in the overall player base in this GC, leading to a better balance globaly. Not only good player would join the Maelstorm.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

3. If you want to give people an initiative to play PvP, you need to have a reward that is bound to achivement, not give out free tokens. You need a rare item that is obtainable from PvP only. (from other discussion thread)

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Like what? A mount? A minion? That won't be enough to make people come to Frontlines. Besides, PvP gear is already "rare" and "obtainable from PvP only". Unfortunatly, it's not enough.
Another point to be made here is that, once you get said item, you won't have anything else to go for, which can drives you away from PvP. You don't have this problem with tokens since you need them on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

4. Continue from above point. This reward also have to be unique for each Grand Company. This is the only resolution to flush people out of Malestorm or horading into one specific Grand Company.

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See above.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

5. Allied seals will only bring more PvE players from Malestorm that is further worst the queue time for Malestorm players.

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Which is fine, since Frontlines is designed to be a bridge between PvE and PvP. For the point about the Maelstorm, see point 2.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

6. Allied seals will encouring leeching as most of these Hunters are there for allied seals, not to PvP.

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If the number of awarded seals is bound to the result of your alliance, just being AFK won't give you full reward, meaning that you'll be forced to fight if you want the best out of it. Also, you can kick people from your team, if I'm not mistaking.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

7. Frontline should not be an option to offer alternative easier access of allied seals. You will be killing the content because why people would waste time on hunting S and A rank when you can get it faster from the Frontline.

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Nobody said that Frontlines would be faster. At most, it would be equal.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

8. Those Hunters (Malestorm) will start to complain about queue time. What is the next step? Do we have to break the Frontline core concept to make these people happy? What will happen after they farmed their seals or seals is no longer give them latest tier gear (for example, ilvl 120 gear in the future patch)? They are like locust, and will move on once they lost interest in the allied seals. What will happen to the PvP? A pool of dead water and Chaos is still left with no established PvP community.

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Updating the rewards to follow the current set of items in the game is not out of the question.


Another thing from a previous post:

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

By the way, Frontline is about internal conflict of interest between three GCs....... what is the logic of provide allied seals as reward?

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There are currently two currency bound to Grand Companies: GC Seals and Allied seals. The only difference is that Allied seals are rewarded for participating in The Hunt. But still, Allied seals are bounded to your GC as you cannot purchase stuff from another GC Hunt manager.
Therefore, having your GC rewarding you for fighting in their name in Frontlines is not completly stupid. In fact, it makes more sense than killing a random big monster in the wild.


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The goal is to drive more (PvE) players into PvP. The only way you can do that is by giving "hot" PvE rewards. Currently, Allied seals are the best option.
Giving them out of The Hunt would also solve a few problems with The Hunt itself by providing an alternative for people who don't enjoy hunting and all the drama around it.
You are kinda putting all players in the same bag, "Hunts players are terrible and we don't want them!", but it seems that you are only focusing on the vocal minority here.
Don't assume that people who are doing Hunts are all terrible people.

With all the current threads about que times and comments about pulling people away from hunts, this thread deserves a bump.

I support this 100%. Hunts are LAME and LAGGY. Recently I'v been DCing so much I don't even do hunts. Therefore I have no other ways to get seals. Frankly I feel that we should get GC seals and Allies seals instead of poetics/soldiery.

What I did a few days ago was start a FL/Hunt party since the queues were sucking. The intent was to be queued for FL first and foremost, but to do Hunts as a party while we waited as compared to getting the disappointing rewards you get from Hunts outside of a party for putting in the same effort. We just made sure to queue for FL using the same class we were going to use for Hunts so we wouldn't get aggro-locked and unable to commence, which is no issue if wanting to do PVP vs Hunts on different classes since we can swap once we get into FL. Sadly we were trying for Secure and never got a queue pop with two long attempts, but instead of wasting 2 hours waiting at least I got a bunch of allied seals during that window.