Abolish Gc vs GC vs GC in frontlines.

Three way PVP is more interesting than the standard, two faction PVP battlegrounds that we've had in the past. Watching two factions killing each other in Heliodrome while you wait on the sidelines is funny as!

Way more epic than two factions charging each other in the face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shake0615

-

---

Yes this is sadly a negative to it. I also enjoy this aspect of it a lot, but in reality, the people you fight are called <insert class >. If the player igns could be shown, and you could actually recognize the people you meet again from time to time, and somehow instil an identity to the opposition, I would feel the GC affiliation much more, but as it is now, I'm just fighting a bunch on no-names, with no idea if it's the same people I meet again and again. You do raise a good point. It just comes down to GC affiliation and its niceties vs absurd queue times for some of the playerbase.

we doesn't have to abolish it right away, we can just change the way the affiliation is counted in the matchmaking while not breaking the lore
there were 2 suggestions in other threads i really liked
1. make only the party leader affiliation count
2. make the FC's affiliation take precedent, it is not used for anything anyway :P

on the other hand, it should be mentioned that the queues are screwed on a system level
few examples (i am in Twin Adders at Chaos data center):
- i am sitting in queue for 1 hour no pop, my friend in adders finished 3 front lines in that time.... WTF ??!!?
- if you have full party its almost always insta pop
- if you have only like 3 ppl no way you can get a pop under 2 hours lol
- you are sitting in queue for hour > leave queue > re-queue > insta pop

- you can NOT replenish ppl during "warm up" period (before the gates open), is it not supposed to be "that" time where you should get ppl ???!?!?
- the system should be faster creating the 48/24 matches, instead of waiting for 72 one for 2 hours, pop 48/24 in 5 mins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geobryn

we doesn't have to abolish it right away, we can just change the way the affiliation is counted in the matchmaking while not breaking the lore
on the other hand, it should be mentioned that the queues are screwed on a system level
few examples (i am in Twin Adders at Chaos data center):
- i am sitting in queue for 1 hour no pop, my friend in adders finished 3 front lines in that time.... WTF ??!!?
- if you have full party its almost always insta pop
- if you have only like 3 ppl no way you can get a pop under 2 hours lol
- you are sitting in queue for hour > leave queue > re-queue > insta pop

- you can NOT replenish ppl during "warm up" period (before the gates open), is it not supposed to be "that" time where you should get ppl ???!?!?
- the system should be faster creating the 48/24 matches, instead of waiting for 72 one for 2 hours, pop 48/24 in 5 mins

---

All true for me too, and It's really annoying.

This definitely needs to be addressed as i have been saying for a long time.

One thing they could do is also add Mercenary options like in Rift. Basically if you are flagged mercenary, they can put in w.e GC needs the people at that time regardless of your GC affiliation.

This would be a toggle option that you turn on if you want or do not use it if you are Lore enthusiast.

This helped alot in that game and i think it could do wonders here as well.

I am all for this change to support faster queue times and what not, but I really enjoy the fact that I am able to represent a faction in PvP. I wouldn't mind the change as much if I was able to represent myself in PvP, rather than just a <Bard>.

Like some others have said, lore isn't a good reason to hamstring content.

I really think we've reached the point where GC matchmaking is getting in the way of Frontlines' success.

While I can appreciate the feeling of fighting for a particular GC, I just don't think the pros outweigh the cons. I would much rather have faster queue times and the ability to group with whomever I wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amandakali

This definitely needs to be addressed as i have been saying for a long time.

One thing they could do is also add Mercenary options like in Rift. Basically if you are flagged mercenary, they can put in w.e GC needs the people at that time regardless of your GC affiliation.

This would be a toggle option that you turn on if you want or do not use it if you are Lore enthusiast.

This helped alot in that game and i think it could do wonders here as well.

---

And here it is, that post in a million. This should keep the lore people happy, and will make the people strangled by GC affiliation happy. Now, how to make SE notice this? xc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

Now, how to make SE notice this? xc

---

by creating a single thread requesting this and then having enough replies to it that creates a gazillion pages. i've noticed this is the only way devs have even replied to an issue when it reaches enough pages worthy of their attention. the JP forums has their organization together since they have more players. but its hard to even get anything noticed in the NA forums because there aren't as many NA players in forums to even generate enough pages most the time. the NA forums gets treated like a stepchild so almost everything is ignored around here.

can try posting to the jp forums and see what happens i guess, and hope enough people know english to reply. however if the request has been made before in there, SE will just delete the post. they are also more strict and moderate those forums a lot more seriously too than over here.
cheers!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amandakali

One thing they could do is also add Mercenary options like in Rift. Basically if you are flagged mercenary, they can put in w.e GC needs the people at that time regardless of your GC affiliation.

---

I like this idea a lot. I say make a thread and see if there's enough support here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shake0615

I like this idea a lot. I say make a thread and see if there's enough support here.

---

Not on this fourm. We dont have the number and JP fourm is taking different approach. Their approach is to stop players horading towards any GC that is on winning wagon. They are preferring GC loyalty and their ideas are focusing on even GC population distribution to be 3:3:3 with 1 being opportunists. Most of their suggestions are about stop one GC being on streak of winning (Malestorm in this case).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemight

Their approach is to stop players horading towards any GC that is on winning wagon. They are preferring GC loyalty and their ideas are focusing on even GC population distribution to be 3:3:3 with 1 being opportunists. Most of their suggestions are about stop one GC being on streak of winning (Malestorm in this case).

---

LOL WOW!! well, the thing is, i don't even think GC swapping was the problem simply because Maelstrom was winning b2b to begin with which is what drove people over here from the beginning. I was already on Maelstrom before Frontlines came out, and we were winning a whole lot more before people started swapping. THEN we started losing more than usual because the bads thought they could run to Team Maelstronk and get carried, but instead they just dragged us down because the amount of fail was too heavy to even lift. So if anything, the swapping has evened the teams out, at least when it comes to Primal Data center, with the exception of Flames who is getting better but still not on par with Maelstrom and Adder.

in all seriousness though, they can't just stop a GC that's on a winning streak. that just simply isn't possible unless they start match-matching individual players who actually play the bg like its suppose to be played, ie. players who consistently has a high number of occupations, a high number of kills, a high number of damage, etc and then dispersing them evenly among the baddies so that the efforts of the good players just get washed out by the bads. that's the only way i can see them preventing winning streaks on one GC and frankly if SE goes out of their way to group players who actually play the bg with the baddies, then that would be the poorest battleground design of all time.

they just need to build a bridge and get over it that its possible for one GC to constantly win because it simply has more organized, and more serious, players who actually play the bg and play to win, and in some cases even function as a premade, and not players who just derp around the map being more interested in a 1v1 and ignorant at how to play the bg, than actually winning the bg. like yesterday, i was in a 48man and 4 Flame players spent a big chunk of their time,trolling me from Temple to Flame Outpost, trying to kill me while their Outpost was taken by Adders right in front of their faces. that is 1/4 of the Flames team accomplishing absolutely nothing. we won (Maelstrom) while Adders took 2nd and Flames, as always, 3rd as one of their players laughed excessively over my corpse; while i'm thinking to myself, no bro, the joke is on you because you followed ONE irrelevant player across the map for 1 kill in exchange for losing the game in 3rd place. these are the type of trash players that reside on Flames and there is no coding in the world that can decode and fix stupid players.

This happens to me a lot when I'm healing. A bunch of them will chase me all around (normally 3-4 Flames), trying to kill me (which they often do as it's always 4 against 1). They usually end up losing the match. I always exit thinking, yeah you guys are just AMAZING. It took 4 of you constantly stunning me to kill me, and you lost the match. Bravo, you're awesome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gor

in all seriousness though, they can't just stop a GC that's on a winning streak. that just simply isn't possible unless they start match-matching individual players who actually play the bg like its suppose to be played.

---

It is possible to achiveve that without filter out lessar performed players. They have interesting suggestions and can be categorized into following:

First one is match based. When there is one GC gaining over 250 points advantage, the GC lieutenant will show up and provide GC based buff. For example, it can be a buff on the HP, dammage output, or reduce damamge taken, etc.

Second one is weekly based. Based on the weekly tally result, the 3rd place GC of each server cluster will receive a buff from GC leader. For exmaple, HP increase for Flame, Healing and Regen for Twin Adders and damage increase for Malestorm.

There are many alternative methods to stop a GC from winning streak. It is just matter of which seems more logical. They want this type of resolution also because they really dislike premade group taking advantage on pug group on the Frontline. They strongly beleive in that premade grooup should be fighting against other premade group only.

Also, I am strongly do not agree that Malestorm is winning because they have better players because Malestorm is dominating across all server clusters. I think it has more relate to the Guild location where Malestorm got Marauder (Warrior) and Arcnaist (SMN/Scholar). You dont have to agree with me because this is my own speculation.

What Argyle said is all true. What I find particularly ridiculous is that the new Q/A says this: "However, if we make adjustments to both Frontline and Wolves' Den at the same time, it would become a bit too fragmented and we're concerned that matching might become difficult."

It's not the concurrent running of these two events that would be causing any fragmentation, it's the basic design of frontlines as well as the actual matchmaking system. And the reality is that fragmentation has been happening for quite a while and it's turned into a huge problem. Queues are absolutely awful for frontlines and just horrific for wolves den (3 hour queues on weekends). The big picture is obfuscating the actual reality of what is going on and it's made it very difficult to enjoy pvp anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemight

First one is match based. When there is one GC gaining over 250 points advantage, the GC lieutenant will show up and provide GC based buff. For example, it can be a buff on the HP, dammage output, or reduce damamge taken, etc. Second one is weekly based. Based on the weekly tally result, the 3rd place GC of each server cluster will receive a buff from GC leader. For exmaple, HP increase for Flame, Healing and Regen for Twin Adders and damage increase for Malestorm.
There are many alternative methods to stop a GC from winning streak. It is just matter of which seems more logical.

---

i think it amazes me more that players are going to such great lengths to make this game flatline faster than it already is. the pvp in this game was already weak to begin with but i stuck with it because like everyone else, i was hoping it would get better and more interesting to play at some point, but reading those suggestions makes me think its all just going to continue to slide downhill. i've never seen a game producer cater to soar losers as much as i've seen in this game. ever. well, Destiny came out a few days ago and i saw the effects of that game in FFXIV on the same day as all the FL matches i got in on 9/9 and 9/10 were all 48 mans all day long (which has never happened before). it was obvious console players dropped this game for Destiny. i only got one 72 man last night. and Warlords comes out in 2 months so baddies and JP players will soon have this game all to themselves anyways so they can all nerf their own game to oblivion and live in their carebear, everyone-gets-a-trophy world to their heart's content.

p.s. i dont think either of their suggestions will work anyways. losers are losers and there is no amount of coding that can increase damage done, damage taken reduction,etc that can make them win. i see they ripped this function from WoW though. there is a similar function in the old Wrath of the Lich King expansion where in the Wintergrasp pvp zone, the faction with less players, whether Horde or Alliance, gets a buff called Tenacity which pretty much made any player on the less populated, often the team that's losing, 1 shot enemy players if the buff stacked high enough. oh the days i would be at a base and get 1-shotted by a Boomkin because his loser buff got stacked so high. ... that zone is a graveyard now that no one even plays anymore for obvious reasons. i really hope that SE ignores those suggestions because i think its more game ethical to let a pvp community evolve on its own rather than interfering with the game play because once they start doing that, they won't stop doing it which will kill the gaming experience for everyone until its just a dead sub-culture of the game. although i don't think the "pvp" (using the term loosely) in this game will completely die out, but will just get overrun with so many baddies that players who are attracted to competitive gameplay, will just get pushed out by frustration and not even want to play anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gor

Shorten for the length.

---

Players are players. Most of players suggestion in fact are just ideas borrowed from other games. We are not that creative in general, those are creative are actully will be a game designer. I dont want to be sound like being pro Japanse, but their FF14 community has been more informative than us in the beginning. Blue Gartr maybe informative, but they are not active on this fourm and they smells heavily with elitism. It doesnt mean this suggestions will go through, but I am giving them credit for attempt to improve the current system rather than destroying it.

I noticed you tends to use term carebear a lot, but I really not sure if this is really the case. Their PvP community may be appeal to be in harmony on the official fourm, but you will see different side on 2ch. Their love and hype for the Frontline has reached to the next level, literally dramas over the Frontline. From players receiving hate messages to getting kick out of FC because a player is not willing to play a WHM, etc.

In regard to the situation you have described, it does not apply to the Flames only. It happens to Malestorm as well. I often taking this into my advantage by kiting Malestrom to attack Flames or vice versa. It has to do with player's mentalty mroe than their real skill. There are people who need to see high kills count on the scoreboard to satsify their self-ego. I bid a lot of Twin Adders are having that mindset as well.

Also, Destiny released on Tuesday. It is a first day after reset and a lot of players are working on their weekly chores such as ST and Coil. Even for a hardcore Frontline players like myself, I would only play few games on Teusday and Wednesday. It is not a good indication. I own a copy of Destiny too but didnt play it until last night after I done everything on FF14. Be honest with you tho, Destiny is only a mutation of Halo and Borderland with Call of Duty for multi. It may be appealing for now, but it wont sustain for too long. All mmos will take a tempory hit everytime a triple A title release, it is not something new.

It is sad and disappointing that most games of come to this. it is a balancing act and they are willing to know their faults. yes many people will move to other games with, so called, better pvp, but I dont think people will give up on a game that they have come to love. GCvGCvGC has its own defaults much like WD did but that didnt stop people from having fun or enjoyment. Granted people will move or stay in a GC based on any form of reasoning but Im sure they will address points of lopsided affiliations sooner or later. their current system is fine. they just need to fix it to make it more accessible as we are discussing. I agree that they should have more options, but also not lose the structure they have. Instead of demolishing a system that is more or less working by changing it to 24v24v24 and no affiliation, i would like to see more ideas that expands the gameplay. giving people more incentives to switch to other GC with GC PvP gear and items aimed at peoples gameplay might help.


Personally, I think them adding the option to put your services on loan to another GC would be nice, with restrictions of course. keeping PvP rank and common pvp abilities but if they add specific GC abilities or items, with having them not usable when your on loan and getting wolfs marks obtained by half for frontlines, wouldnt be bad. sacrifice some for playability but gain more for sticking to your guns

idea: Uldah, mainly tank heavy players get GC pvp gear options; Gridania, mage heavy get GC pvp gear options; Maalstrom; DoW non-tank heavy players have more GC pvp gear options. but not limited to those players. to help people pick GC based on PvP play

lets work to a better experience then saying its a bad system. all things can look bad, working to make them better makes them gold.(most of the time)

[QUOTE=Gor;2428059 as all the FL matches i got in on 9/9 and 9/10 were all 48 mans all day long (which has never happened before).[/QUOTE]


Weird that you got so many. I've played 10 matches since reset, and only 2 were 48. I got into a 48 yesterday and withdrew... because retards. But every single game after that was pretty much the same wait time, but all games were 72. I'm wondering how and when it decides to run a 48. Because my freind has been in a 48 while at the same time I'm on a 72.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samurailargo

lets work to a better experience

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gor

Warlords comes out in 2 months

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemight

Players are players.

---

--->@Gor

November? Gosh that is certainly further away than I expected it to be.. although the PTR is active! Yet the changes are dynamic there so far..

I do agree with you though that people will always complain but that is just the way it is where developers have to choose who to cater to more.

I could see the scenario Gor is picturing but I do not think much about it since I basically categorized this game as an egg that has not hatched yet. The developers in many games tend to do these things that makes the game less competitive, but perhaps PvP here was never meant to be something worth mentioning in terms of the word -competitive-? Many past games have tried to be, yet only a named few are really seen as such. By modifying spells and abilities and what they do or how they are affected, the developers would make the majority of the players happy. If I recall this was one of the common sights of this game? To please the playerbase?

I doubt they would "care for" a small minority of players who want competitive PvP to be frank (while I have used WoW as an example, I will use it here again).

The disparity between a regular 1200 player and a 2500 player is by leaps and bounds for what they believe to be competitive, 1200 players view 1500 as the largest goal but 2500 players view 3k as (im)possible goal. It is difficult to co-exist or reach the happy state for both ends.
Satisfaction is easy to reach, but not happiness.

Rank 40 players here are not different than Rank 10 players, since a 2500 rank 10 player can basically outplay a 1200 rank 40 player. Just by the way they think and way they adapt to situations and I will leave you the decision if not this would make sense to you :D

I mentioned before that people will adapt to the changes and another poster told me it sets precedence that nerfs should always happen to healers due to bad play.

Yes.
It is an unfortunate truth for games which worry about preserving -the casuals- or -the carebears- as quoted.

I believe FF14 is that type of game and have been labelled a PvE/Grind-intensive game several times, PvP is just there to be there and that it is a trend for MMOs to have PvP.
It was never a trend to cater to competitive players unless you reference League of Legends, where skill and usage of the head actually do matter in some cases and despite how good you are and your champion is, you can still slip up and lose the games.

If FF14 does lift traits off WoW then it would be more of a detriment.

The buffs for GCs will not be a good idea since it is not hard to exploit in this game given the way things are now. The structure of PvP is what makes it hard to balance and I did not personally agree with the removal of aetherflow either to quote an example.

I was always of the belief that people who can not, should not.

..and that the glory that many players seek in the game sometimes should be earned instead of be an entitlement. I would imagine most competitive players think this way, which is why they do as many things as they do and learn as many tricks as they learn. However I repeat again that there is little of either of that in here since PvP gameplay by itself is linear.

I am not saying no player is decent or good but I am saying the line is too thin for consideration that PvP changes can be anything and the game is still playable and will be played by many as long as the rewards attract people by aesthetics or otherwise.

We are still playing even after Aetherflow was destroyed!:D

------>@Divine

The PvP drama here is pale though even if it escalates to any level, I once played a free to play game where the community was medium and we knew a guy who worked in the navy seals but never seen his face?
Another guy used to berate him often on the forum and laugh at him, make jokes about his parents and other very rude things but made the mistake of telling his home location to a person he thought he could trust, then this navy seals person took a facebook picture of a sniper rifle pointed at that guy who bashes him and he wrote 'look who I found? =)'

The uproar on that picture was really something I did not expect.

I am sure people have worse stories, but this is just how infant the current pvp drama is and it still has many stages it will not reach since there is nothing to be proud about or to brag about in PvP here. I doubt in current day that many -drama wars- can be as bad as certain other things in PvE sometimes such as the Titan Hard Mode problems and Atma grind.

I do not know much on who BlueGatr(?) is or if they have anything to be elitist about but being elitist here is silly in my opinion :eek:

I agree with you that the NA population is a minority but unless you make Gor run around in nothing but a birdhat with signboard saying -fight the power and represent-, I think it would be hard to have much more opinions.

I don't believe they will be different either since in my reply to Gor, I said already that the game lacks certain types of players, someone can compare any of this to some of WoWs suggestion threads which are sometimes overdone in my opinion. :rolleyes:

---->@Samu

I know a few people who play FF14 and they really like the game, they have about the same opinions about PvP here and how it does not seem like -real pvp- and they are leaving FF14 after Warlords is launched and just play this game as a -filler-? In this case it makes more sense Developers won't cater to these people.

They are part of the percentage that will not help the game because they believe it can not be helped in their favor. I think this is the mindset of most NA players who have left the game for their own reasons.

If the game is not for you, it is not for you.

With your suggestion to half marks and other things, it will create players who say the developers force you to have less fun by reducing marks in exchange for playing with friends, some might say you choose marks or choose friends, some might quote other games give them both without 'dumb rules' like that?
It will be difficult for developers to answer these people without being made a fool of should this suggestion be taken, in my view.

I think having suggestions to do such a thing is not logical and that you should just allow GCs to work hand in hand by calling it what a past poster has stated -joint exercise- which is common even in real world for good reasons.
If people want to talk about lore, the lore can just be simply put as being in preparation for future threats, there is no GC restriction in coil after all.

I doubt anyone is saying the game has bad system.
I am reading it more along the lines of the game taking turns which ultimately do not agree with some people and it can be understood. It is easy for things to sound like nobody enjoys the game, but most of us still play it so the system is not bad.

Just approach.
Even approach can be understood though.

--> I have not proof-read this yet since it is 6:50am here but please forgive any mistakes!

They need to get rid of this it hurts the game a lot, it's making it so boring that many people just don't bother with the game and quit. And lol at Divine thinking more people enjoy this horrible system. How can you enjoy wating 3 hours without a single fight...? Your posts dont even get one like that's how much people that pvp like it.

I'm pretty new to FFXIV and enjoying so far. Im not into pvp/FL/gc3 yet, but i'm very eager to try.

So, the situation is as follows?

1) SE created Gc v Gc v Gc

2) Community enjoyed

3) Some weeks later, players begin to mass-change to that winning GC

4) Q time got longer 'cause everyone was on winning GC

Sooo... FFXIV community broke Gc v Gc v Gc system and now SE need to fix/remove it.
I'm not trying to flame, or troll, but... Shame on ffxiv community :/ This kind of behavior is just.. Sad!

Well, I am not there yet (not even close) but I read all pages of this thread to make my above conclusions.
GC v Gc v Gc seems like a nice pvp system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrueOgre

I'm pretty new to FFXIV and enjoying so far. Im not into pvp/FL/gc3 yet, but i'm very eager to try.

So, the situation is as follows?

1) SE created Gc v Gc v Gc

2) Community enjoyed

3) Some weeks later, players begin to mass-change to that winning GC

4) Q time got longer 'cause everyone was on winning GC

Sooo... FFXIV community broke Gc v Gc v Gc system and now SE need to fix/remove it.
I'm not trying to flame, or troll, but... Shame on ffxiv community :/ This kind of behavior is just.. Sad!

Well, I am not there yet (not even close) but I read all pages of this thread to make my above conclusions.
GC v Gc v Gc seems like a nice pvp system.

---

Ah, so you will join the losing team ? Or just happen to LOOOVE the lore on the winning team and join that one? xD

People are human, this is just badly designed content, simple as that.

Randomized teams is the obvious cure to this, and SE probably haven't done it yet since it would mean admitting their mistake.

Exactly. What the design does is ENCOURAGE people to jump ship to the GC that wins the most. This behaviour would not even exist in Frontlines if it just grouped up random groups with all players queueing (much like it randomly groups you in Crystal/Syrcus Tower).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrueOgre

Sooo... FFXIV community broke Gc v Gc v Gc system and now SE need to fix/remove it.
I'm not trying to flame, or troll, but... Shame on ffxiv community :/ This kind of behavior is just.. Sad!

---

You must be fair to say that very many communities in other games are this way instead of labeling it as the ffxiv community who should be ashamed as there are also those who participate in PvP regardless of their winning or losing. Some servers have more severe people doing this than others but out of all the suggestions given, removing restrictions seems to be the most logical?

Most logical does not always mean the optimal solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

Ah, so you will join the losing team ? Or just happen to LOOOVE the lore on the winning team and join that one? xD

People are human, this is just badly designed content, simple as that.

Randomized teams is the obvious cure to this, and SE probably haven't done it yet since it would mean admitting their mistake.

---

I do not think it's fair for you to question if he will join the losing team..
The content was designed very well but some servers of people just do not want to enjoy the fun of PvP and only care about winning or losing? It is all I have been hearing in these threads in the NA section. Some people can not enjoy the game for the way the game is.

Many have said the MNKs removing aetherflow has destroyed SCH and blown it out of proportion? But today SCHs are still very strong healers despite all the people who condemn the change before? When looking through all feedback threads then actually playing the game, it becomes hard to believe anyone has a genuine cure for the game state because all cures are personal wants instead of being beneficial on a wider scale without affecting other aspects of the game?

I think it's unfair to blame the developers saying it's their mistake when the JP community is PvPing daily? Some NA community people schedule WD pvp and other things and are Rank 40 but doing their best to enjoy it, how can it be a mistake?
All that matters is how you want to adapt to the situation for something you love to do in-game, difficult as it might be.

How is it unfair to question if he will join the losing team if he said the following:

"Sooo... FFXIV community broke Gc v Gc v Gc system and now SE need to fix/remove it. I'm not trying to flame, or troll, but... Shame on ffxiv community :/ This kind of behavior is just.. Sad!"

And the rest of your post seems like a "screw the minority" statement? not quite sure if you really meant to say that or not. I couldn't care less if JP pvp in their sleep 24/7, the queues are broken on smaller servers. See back a few pages @ screenshot showing 120 minute queue during the day in Europe and explain to me how THAT is fair?

And naturally, it's fair to say there is a developer error when a system is compatible with large server pools, and not with smaller ones. calling it a lack of foresight might be an overstatement, but the fact that it is not addressed yet is disappointing.

I find it unfair how people with great queues times are against this xD As previously suggested, they could just make a "join random gc" checkbox, and the entire issue would be solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

Ah, so you will join the losing team ? Or just happen to LOOOVE the lore on the winning team and join that one? xD

People are human, this is just badly designed content, simple as that.

Randomized teams is the obvious cure to this, and SE probably haven't done it yet since it would mean admitting their mistake.

---

I am Twin Adder, I am perfectly fine to play as one. Not everyone want to jump the winning wagon, that is boring. You always feel a strong sense of achivment whenever you see your self rank within top 10 on your server as Twin Adder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

Ah, so you will join the losing team ? Or just happen to LOOOVE the lore on the winning team and join that one? xD

People are human, this is just badly designed content, simple as that.

---

Not exactly. I will join GC where my guildmates or friends are, no matter if this Gc have big wins or no.:cool:
Players should stick with GC for other reasons than just winning gc v gc v gc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyphione

You must be fair to say that very many communities in other games are this way instead of labeling it as the ffxiv community who should be ashamed as there are also those who participate in PvP regardless of their winning or losing..

---

Yeah, my bad, sorry. You are 100% correct. I should not have labeled it to "ffxiv community", since it is not a exclusive problem of ffxiv players. Plus, I'm sure not everyone think like that.
Bad choice of words on my part. Sorry.:(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sessurea

View

---

It is unfair as you are assuming immediately of him joining based on winning and losing when I am sure you do not know him? Why would you pose such a black and white question? Is that not unfair to him that he has been implied to be one who has joined nothing but the winning team? He has replied saying he will play with friends regardless now, which is something you did not bother to consider.
That is why it is unfair to pose such a question.

You are purposely misconstruing my statements. I asked a question on how you would answer to knowing JP community still PvPing and the NA community not PvPing.
My aim of such a question was not to berate or to imply anything of comparison but instead wanted what you thought was the reason, as that forms the foundation of your basic thought. You instead chose to not answer the entire thing and remark rudely that I do not care about the minority? Then you ask me an abrasive question for explanation when you have refused to indulge me for my clearer understanding?

I visit the NA section because, like Divinemight, giving opinions and reaching clear reasoning for suggestions (Divine sometimes posts JP opinions) will make developers notice. I am capable of going to JP sites to do it myself but I choose to comment here as well because I want to know how the NA side feels to changes or current state of the game, this is just my habit of wanting to know more than just the JP side of the story.

Is this how you try to encourage a suggestion to be taken by the developers? By saying you do not care about other players of the game and only care about what I perceive to be your part only which suffers from it? To offer solutions you need to know why the NA section are not playing and how it will affect other aspects of the game, was it not mentioned that developers make decisions based on all accounts instead of just 1 thing?

For example if you give 100 allied seals for a 1st place win, why even do hunts or make it so a server or large amount need to do it any more? The point of hunts being new and worth doing was the new currency which gave you new options for upgrades and new minions or gear looks. It was an exclusive hunt-only aspect of the game.
This is just an example to outline thought, please do not think much of it.

Why do you comment 'people with great queue times are against this'? It is very rude to say such a thing. Many have commented in game, in the forums and given reasons on why removing Faction PvP is good for smaller servers. If I am not mistaken, you have said this problem is common in the NA and EU parts of the game? Why then, would you say such a thing in the NA section if everyone was having the same queue time problem as you have outlined?
It would seem to some that you deliberately are insulting those who are against it, if there are any.

Frontlines is less than half a year old and PvP is still on its baby legs, saying this is the developers fault is not fair to them as they have no idea how statistics are looking until leaving something in a state for a period of time. If you are aware of this, why do you insult their foresight? Is this not fair to a company who is trying to understand their playerbase? I am sure Square Enix is not telling themselves "we have taken players from other mmos! lets make pvp for them so they never go back!".

They have yet to address anything for their own reasons if you read and understand the Live letters and videos, they have many plans and many things to take care of. When you say "not addressed yet is disappointing", you are implying releasing Frontlines for 1 month then adding a patch for frontlines every week because players do not want to play it for personal reasons after a period of 3 weeks or slightly more?
Then this is a playerbase problem and not a developers oversight as they have developed it for people, it is the people who choose if they want to play it - people can always argue and discuss how unfair and disadvantaged they are no matter how much developers try to fix something.

Please do not cast shadows over others when you do not understand their standpoint.

Just a question is Carteneau PVP searched server wide or just on your server you play on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

Just a question is Carteneau PVP searched server wide or just on your server you play on?

---

Data Centers and all servers which are apart of the one as you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyphione

Data Centers and all servers which are apart of the one as you.

---

wow thank you for that answer! Wuff*

I actually like the GC aspect of Frontlines. Bad for the queues? Sure, but I really like seeing the same allies and enemies over and over, and actually fighting for something, rather than fight for a randomly assigned colour with randomly assigned people who could well have been people I was fighting last round. I find it far more interesting this way, even if the queues do suffer (which seems to be an issue based on data center, more than anything).

While i do like the gc vs gc aspect, it's very bad for the health of frontlines and as a result, pvp in general. And that in turn hurts the game overall, so it's not something i can support.

This entire game's philosophy is about having being an amusement park of sorts where you can dabble in anything you want either casually or more. But nobody is going to suffer wait times beyond a certain point, and as the days pass these lines only keep getting longer. People think 1 hour is bad? It's nothing compared to WD and with the way this awkwardly designed event is, it will continue approaching WD's wait times until people start giving up in huge droves. I know many who already have.

The initial popularity of FL wasn't ever going to be sustainable. But that's not the point; it's supposed to be about having a solid foundation to work with. But this GC vs GC thing has fundamental flaws that were only masked by the number of people playing. Now that less are, everyone can really see how damaging it is.

Not speaking to anyone in particular, but the big picture is really all that matters. If you guys like any particular aspect of the game, try to really examine it from a health-of-the-game perspective so we can better define what's good and what we need to push the devs on. You like something or think it's fun? Great. It's not gonna be so fun when nobody plays it with you though. And the disparity in design philosophy is happening so much so that it's like the game is taking its MO from tanaka all over again.

Rather than tossing out GC affiliation entirely, what about a proposal that would focus on balancing population between GCs so that people don't feel tempted to jump to the winning side so often? Why not offer veteran rewards packages for maintaining membership in a GC? Or if a GC is on a horrible losing streak in a given DC and their population is low, why not have a (small) recruitment event to bring people to that side? Why not offer faction bonuses like when you chose between Aldors and Scryers in WoW? Why not give free teleports to Limsa if you're in the Maelstrom, Ul'dah if you're a Flame, and Gridania if you're an Adder? There's a lot of creative ideas to promote GC loyalty so that bandwagon hopping doesn't happen as frequently. Not only would it help alleviate queue issues, but it would add another layer of depth and meaning to choosing a GC in the first place.

Of course, I'm prepared for most of you to disagree here. Go ahead and rip me to shreds lol :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

I actually like the GC aspect of Frontlines. Bad for the queues? Sure, but I really like seeing the same allies and enemies over and over, and actually fighting for something, rather than fight for a randomly assigned colour with randomly assigned people who could well have been people I was fighting last round. I find it far more interesting this way, even if the queues do suffer (which seems to be an issue based on data center, more than anything).

---

I like it as well. However, like in most MMO's that feature Faction vs. Faction ( vs. Faction! ) PvP, it's often imbalanced number-wise. Whether it's instanced or not. In a game that's marketed as a PvE game, keeping things simple would be the best option. So in my opinion, GC affiliation needs to go unless they plan on dangling more carrots in front of players faces to get them to PvP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shake0615

Of course, I'm prepared for most of you to disagree here.

---

Completely agree. They shouldn't abolish GCs in Frontlines, they should just do something to give them more reason and benefits than lore.

Just abolishing GCs is the laziest solution, and I'd probably do Frontlines less if they did that, so it's hardly the ideal solution. Probably the best solution is the same one we've had since Wolves' Den queues were awful (huh, non-faction based PvP with awful queues...); merge the data centers for PvP only. Did they ever give us a reason that wasn't possible?

I'd also really like to see a tallying system for GCs on individual servers. Not specifically a PvP thing (could also be tied to GC Leves and Supply/Provisioning Missions), but just something like XI had. Lets say you come back from Frontlines, your GC gains points based on your place. Tally them up at the end of the week and give bonuses based on the GCs position. First place could have some awesome gear (not specifically PvP gear), while third place could provide something to help the underdog. That could bring more people into Frontlines, as well as creating more of a sense of national pride in the game. Would actually make Frontlines into a competitive scene as well, their biggest mistake was making faction based PvP with no faction competition.

How many more threads do we need on this obvious flaw before we get even a comment? Wonder if we'll ever get one...

We complained about this before it was released, months in its getting more and more obvious how much better random teams(or at the very least a "mercenary" option) would be... just do it.. please..

Faction based PvP in this game = bad idea.

I don't understand arbitrary factions separating players into groups when all it takes is a simple switch to change said groups. They could make it lore based and just separate players into a "faction team" that just uses their logo, ala red team blue team yellow team. It wouldn't affect the lore and it would fix all the problems. Look how easy that was.

I would like to abolish GC in Frontlines in favour better balanced parties and reduced queue times.