So buffing the reward, and nerfing the marks is the answer to fixing the Hunts?

Well I don't know about you guys but am happy about the changes since this weekly hunt I have had since 2.3 I can now finish!
Ok bit strange they just totally ripped marks from B rank so even I don't want them now, But at least when there my weekly I can get it done!
I really have limited time to play so hunts was a no go for me since there zergs on my server just tuck out everything.
Now I can actually get marks!

Your logic is completely flawed, those who spammed hunts are the ones saying "meh, I got my seals who cares".
Those of us who did other things and occasionally hunted now can only do so if we're lucky enough to be on when enough A's are up, basically.
You didn't bother with B ranks, but we did. Instead of hunting, I was doing ST/roulettes/etc, now I find out I should have been spamming hunts instead because SE decided to reward those who have been spamming hunts and punish those who were doing other content instead.

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Originally Posted by Khyra

It (not continuous hunts) is another thing that favors those with excessive playtime.

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Sorry, no. Now that you can earn 274 seals every week without being trampled by the Horde, it gives reward to people with little playtime each day.
Exactly like daily roulette, daily quests, weekly challenge log, etc...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sorry, no. Now that you can earn 274 seals every week without being trampled by the Horde, it gives reward to people with little playtime each day.
Exactly like daily roulette, daily quests, weekly challenge log, etc...

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Only if you log on and do your dailies every day. Those of us who can mostly play on weekend for example got nerfed. Reward is to those who play a lot in 2 ways:
1) If you play every day, you get more from dailies (of course)
2) If you are on more hours, you will have greater chance of getting A marks.

Before, B marks were basically always spawning, so you could hunt Bs and get seals anytime. Now thats not an option. Those who play all the time will do A's and S's when up, the rest of us have to hope maybe something pops when we're on. Got at least half my seals from Bs before, now I can do weekly and 1 or 2 dailies a week, thats nowhere near 274 seals.

And those who were "spamming" or "abusing" the system that others like to complain about? Not affected at all. Because they already got their reward. Square is rewarding them even further by only hurting those who did other content and/or had less playtime.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sorry, no. Now that you can earn 274 seals every week without being trampled by the Horde, it gives reward to people with little playtime each day.
Exactly like daily roulette, daily quests, weekly challenge log, etc...

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Maybe your server is different to mine but the original way was Hugely rewarding for those with limited playtime. I could log in, get into our main Hunt LS in minutes, hunt for an hour or two then log (quitting the LS on exit). Anytime.

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Originally Posted by Raze_Krauser

Good job SE..

...continue to negate any reason for doing group content....

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I actually think this was a good way to fix it. B rank are just for weekly hunts. There are still A and S rank for group content.

Only people really complaining are people who were using this as their fast track to 110 weapons.

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Originally Posted by Khyra

And those who were "spamming" or "abusing" the system that others like to complain about? Not affected at all. Because they already got their reward. Square is rewarding them even further by only hurting those who did other content and/or had less playtime.

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This, however, is the not-fair part. But there's not really anything SE can do.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Only people really complaining are people who were using this as their fast track to 110 weapons.

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This is not true. I mean, you can say that all you want, but I'm complaining and was not doing that.

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This, however, is the not-fair part. But there's not really anything SE can do.

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They could have left it as-is to give everyone the same options, instead of giving a big first-mover/spammer advantage. They chose the latter.

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Originally Posted by Khyra

This is not true. I mean, you can say that all you want, but I'm complaining and was not doing that.



They could have left it as-is to give everyone the same options, instead of giving a big first-mover/spammer advantage. They chose the latter.

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It always amuses me that people seem to think that a MMO that services hundreds of thousands of people (millions even) should cater specifically to their personal timeframe for getting things done. I'm pretty sure the change wasn't made to inconvenience you, personally. And yet here you are, acting like the devs thought "oh hey, lets piss off that Khyra Katze today".

The dailies with fates are still not worth the 10 seals. With the changes today I was determined to start doing these every day now. Did the easy ones then got to my 2 fates. Barometz and jackanapes. Took 30 minutes for Barometz and I'm still standing around waiting for jackanapes to spawn. Over and hour now. Who knows when it'll spawn. So I'm going to get 20 seals for an hour and a half or more of standing around. Ya no thanks. Will be the last day I do these again.

This was a great change and will get people back into the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Alx789

Do you play 4hours/day or more? What to do if less? I think that player should have a possibility to start hunting at any time.

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you can. At the top of the week you do the mad rush of synchronized marks, in the lulls do your daily ones, etc. Later in the week respawns are fully randomized so it is simple to remain in the same group jumping A to A.

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This was a great change and will get people back into the roulette.

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Will it?

Thanks to hunts, I already have my Novus. I do need more soldiery, but more seals wouldn't hurt either, so I'll probably just do A ranks as windows come up. Also still need ST, so I'll get some tomes there, too.

Only time I should need to do roulette is at the end of the week, if I need to top off... and I'm guessing others who've been doing hunts for awhile may be in the same boat.

EDIT: I will probably queue up for WP for SBing.

I am actually doing a facepalm right now. I feel like they are missing the entire point of hunts. As the current system is right now, by doing only marks, I would be search for an actually NM once a week and spending the rest of the time doing a pseudo Animus grind.

B rank changes good, but have those marks as dailies not weeklies. Weeklies should be Rank A and add something else for Rank S. I guess my point is I want to get a bill and hunt a NM mark, not grind normal monsters and FATEs.

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joy...0/facepalm.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I am actually doing a facepalm right now. I feel like they are missing the entire point of hunts. As the current system is right now, by doing only marks, I would be search for an actually NM once a week and spending the rest of the time doing a pseudo Animus grind.

B rank changes good, but have those marks as dailies not weeklies. Weeklies should be Rank A and add something else for Rank S. I guess my point is I want to get a bill and hunt a NM mark, not grind normal monsters and FATEs.

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How exactly is SE "missing the point" of Hunts when they designed them? It's the players who seem to have completely misconstrued their intent.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

How exactly is SE "missing the point" of Hunts when they designed them? It's the players who seem to have completely misconstrued their intent.

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Can't believe I need to post this stuff when people know why Hunts are in Eorzea but fine.

The Hunt, a new initiative started by the Eorzean Alliance, will have adventurers tracking down and defeating notorious monsters roaming the land referred to as "elite marks." But hey, if a dev says I"m wrong I would gladly apology to the entire development team.

As it stands I'm hunting normal mobs and FATEs on a daily basis with one Elite mark a week. This is boring and a contrition to what Yoshi-P said Hunt were. I'm at a lose to why B was changed at all if the end result once to only find them once a week. I actually enjoy the concept of running around the zone, hunting for my Elite Mark. Today I finished my first and last daily/weekly 2.35 hunt because frankly, it's just not fun to me.

http://odinwatch.com/wp-content/uplo...el-817x320.jpg

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

ha, i actually laughed at that. i dont do B ranks, and with 20-30 minute total hunting, with crafting between the As, i made enough seal to buy a log, for 250, not to mention i got half the soldiery cap, then got kicked off for maintenance. there are a lot of people that dont even bother with B ranks. in a few hours of hunts, i was able to cap on myth, soldiery, and have almost 1k seals, that was just hunting As on my first day

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somehow this doesn't add up. you have 17 a ranks at 20 seals a piece. you only have 340 seals every 3-4 hours. then add in your weekly and you are at 390. then add in your dailies and you are 420 seals. so unless you hunted through 3 a cycles today you did not get 1k seals. you would have had to be hunting close to 10 hours and not miss a single a rank mobs to get such.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Will it?

Thanks to hunts, I already have my Novus. I do need more soldiery, but more seals wouldn't hurt either, so I'll probably just do A ranks as windows come up. Also still need ST, so I'll get some tomes there, too.

Only time I should need to do roulette is at the end of the week, if I need to top off... and I'm guessing others who've been doing hunts for awhile may be in the same boat.

EDIT: I will probably queue up for WP for SBing.

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And here is an example as to why hunts were broken in the first place.

The community broke hunts :)

I think the system was designed to provide some nice, somewhat interesting, casual open-world content. Casual in the sense that the encounters were intended to provide a bit of flavor and be something done on the side as encounters were found. Instead, the whole system is being meta-gamed by the "hardcore" crowd who think hunting for 5-6-7-8hrs is somehow fun and engaging. This type of meta-gaming is considered "hardcore" because sitting around for 5-6-7-8hrs doing this thing is "challenging". :)

Once 2.4 releases, i110 will be outdated. Rogue/Ninja will be out. Everything would have mellowed out without these changes while still allowing new players (and new Ninjas!) an opportunity to catch up and experience 2.4 and 2.5 content. Not anymore.

All these changes do are punish new players who wanted to catch up to raid with their friends and those that looked to i110 as a little confidence booster to be able to clear current and even old content. It was a refreshing change coming away from seeing people run the first two bosses of Brayflox HM a thousand times. Hunting also brought entire server communities together where people got to know each other from daily hunting groups. On Leviathan, be you new or old all you had to do was ask to be in our hunting groups even if you only had an hour to play. All of this is now gone to appease people who want the game to be lifeless. To never have to communicate or speak to anyone. It saddens me that people wish that to become the norm.

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Originally Posted by Miakisaki

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What changes? They didn't change A or S rank so you can still go zerging with your huntshells for unbalanced rewards. They changed B rank to how it was meant to be done originally, solo or light party, not by a horde of rampaging elephants. Most hunters don't go for B rank mobs so I think the weekly change should be a welcome addition. Or are you upset about solo and small group players now able to get decent rewards because their playstyle is different from what you envision it should be >_>.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

What changes? They didn't change A or S rank so you can still go zerging with your huntshells for unbalanced rewards. They changed B rank to how it was meant to be done originally, solo or light party, not by a horde of rampaging elephants. Most hunters don't go for B rank mobs so I think the weekly change should be a welcome addition. Or are you upset about solo and small group players now able to get decent rewards because their playstyle is different from what you envision it should be >_>.

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yeah, they originally intended to put in 17 mobs that only 1 of the 17 has any usage in game at all to a player per week....... if that was their intention then the making of the other 16 mobs and putting them on timers and making spawn points for them was very much severely wasted development time.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

go zerging with your huntshells for unbalanced rewards. horde of rampaging elephants.

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In 2.4, these "unbalanced rewards" are outdated. So that point is irrelevant. All the gear does is help those who couldn't clear content before have a slight edge. Most fights are still largely skill based.

It's easy from the outside looking in to say any LS was what you mentioned above. All players were welcomed when they asked for an invite, B Ranks were generally pulled 2-4 minutes after being found to allow time for the every group to have all their members there, and rules were in place to make sure everyone received full credit. Let me repeat that. ALL players were welcomed to join the main LS on Leviathan. No one was excluded. We had no problem respecting those who found and pulled A or B Ranks before we did. This is gone for us and the community now.

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Originally Posted by Miakisaki

In 2.4, these "unbalanced rewards" are outdated. So that point is irrelevant. All the gear does is help those who couldn't clear content before have a slight edge. Most fights are still largely skill based.

It's easy from the outside looking in to say any LS was what you mentioned above. All players were welcomed when they asked for an invite, B Ranks were generally pulled 2-4 minutes after being found to allow time for the every group to have all their members there, and rules were in place to make sure everyone received full credit. Let me repeat that. ALL players were welcomed to join the main LS on Leviathan. No one was excluded. We had no problem respecting those who found and pulled A or B Ranks before we did. This is gone for us and the community now.

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Maybe it was like that on your server. In Balmung, we have early pullers and name calling like it was going out of style, regardless of rank.

Nothing's perfect, but this particular change is RIDICULOUSLY positive.
Go ahead and whine though, I have plenty of cheese.

-Can't constantly grind scrub marks anymore.
-Better start crying.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yeah, they originally intended to put in 17 mobs that only 1 of the 17 has any usage in game at all to a player per week....... if that was their intention then the making of the other 16 mobs and putting them on timers and making spawn points for them was very much severely wasted development time.

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No that wasn't there intention I'm sure. However it also wasn't there intention to have 40+ people camping B mobs all day long either, and if you can't understand that I don't know what to tell you. B's were designed for solo and light party not 40 people. The constant camping of them put SE in a position where they had to alter what they designed the system to be. Does that mean its right? No, but to SE it is (at the moment) the lesser of two evils.

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

No that wasn't there intention I'm sure. However it also wasn't there intention to have 40+ people camping B mobs all day long either, and if you can't understand that I don't know what to tell you. B's were designed for solo and light party not 40 people. The constant camping of them put SE in a position where they had to alter what they designed the system to be. Does that mean its right? No, but to SE it is (at the moment) the lesser of two evils.

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no, that i completely agree with.

what i was doing was pointing out the flaw in the statement "this is what they intended originally". no, neither what came out of the original hunt nor the changes as they are now are anything near what was intended. a 5 year old could have told them what was going to happen with the original idea though with the current claiming system they use in the open world. the real question is where was their q&a team before this was originally released and are they really that clueless they didn't see the mob trains coming with the content with the way it was originally released?

I usually play an hour, maybe two, each night, and then several on Fridays and Saturdays.

With the change, and the increase of seals for the daily hits, I can do a roulette as a tank, then while que'd for two more roulettes as a DPS, I can go and kill 3 different bills and get 12 seals. And if I have time, a 4th mark. So doing roulettes que times, I can go out and get more seals than I could if I wanted to try and find B marks and hope (a) they didn't get pulled early, (b) enough people are there so majority are happy about it being pulled and (c) I'm there late enough so I don't have to sit around for 5 seals. Now I could potentially earn 12-16 seals on my own time, and even more (double that potentially) if the FATEs needed happen to be up.

All in an hour, maybe two: two to three roullettes, 12-20+ seals.

I think it's excellent. Though I'm not a super hunter. Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

.....the real question is where was their q&a team before this was originally released and are they really that clueless they didn't see the mob trains coming with the content with the way it was originally released?

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If you look at the last interview with Yoshi he did say something like this ".........rewards are individual, so be kind to each other..."

He saw the Train Zerg coming a mile away.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yeah, they originally intended to put in 17 mobs that only 1 of the 17 has any usage in game at all to a player per week....... if that was their intention then the making of the other 16 mobs and putting them on timers and making spawn points for them was very much severely wasted development time.

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Having 1-8 players killing a hunt mob when they are out questing/gathering/fishing and stumbling across them is different from it being untouched for an entire week. It is perfectly plausible that B ranks were not meant to be camped and killed the minute they spawned.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

no, that i completely agree with.

what i was doing was pointing out the flaw in the statement "this is what they intended originally". no, neither what came out of the original hunt nor the changes as they are now are anything near what was intended. a 5 year old could have told them what was going to happen with the original idea though with the current claiming system they use in the open world. the real question is where was their q&a team before this was originally released and are they really that clueless they didn't see the mob trains coming with the content with the way it was originally released?

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No, that WAS what they intended. Here, look:

This was from the first patch that they raised the mobs hp:

the following adjustments have been made to “The Hunt”:

Elite marks maximum HP has been increased.
Rank B maximum HP has been raised from solo to light party level, Rank A maximum HP has been raised from light party to full party level.
Although the Rank S maximum HP level was already intended for multiple parties, we have further raised the necessary number to require even more parties.


Second, this was from Yoshi's interview at Gamescom:

-The Hunt adjustments are focused on B ranks.

We need to make adjustments on the whole for Monster Hunt content, but I'd like to wait for making any more announcements until a later date. We're aware that there's a problem today with the way people are fighting elites being quite different from our intent when we implemented it where people are killing all of S, A, and B rank monsters in groups.

S ranks were intended to be monsters which people would find and then shout to other people in the area to try to gather up people to defeat them. B rank monsters were intended to be more for people who aren't hunting in large groups, but rather something people could do every now and then without help on their own time. A ranks were supposed to be somewhere in the middle.

Not sure why you're denying it when it came straight from the horse's mouth, unless you are insinuating that Yoshi was lying.

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Originally Posted by Miakisaki

In 2.4, these "unbalanced rewards" are outdated. So that point is irrelevant. All the gear does is help those who couldn't clear content before have a slight edge. Most fights are still largely skill based.

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Hunts were released in 2.3. Each full patch cycle is 6 months. So you are saying its ok for it to be unbalanced half of the time?

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Originally Posted by Miakisaki

It's easy from the outside looking in to say any LS was what you mentioned above. All players were welcomed when they asked for an invite, B Ranks were generally pulled 2-4 minutes after being found to allow time for the every group to have all their members there, and rules were in place to make sure everyone received full credit. Let me repeat that. ALL players were welcomed to join the main LS on Leviathan. No one was excluded. We had no problem respecting those who found and pulled A or B Ranks before we did. This is gone for us and the community now.

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The problem with this statement is that in an ideal system, your "dream" setup would capitulate bad. Considering that Excalibur is the "best calibur", you are telling me that your main LS isn't full? On my server, the 4 main LS and 6 subsidiaries are all full and we have to reject people all the time. Also, imagine for a second that every single player on your server somehow magically joins your LS. The system would simply collapse because the hunts aren't meant to support that many people with rendering issues and lag. I bet some people in your LS would start being selfish and pull early. The only reason it is not happening is that there are still many people not participating in hunts, either because they want to avoid drama, got a bad experience with them or just find it downright boring. And anyone can say "Everyone is welcome to join", but do you actively go around recruiting people and helping the community as you claim? Do you have people stationed in every zone to announce when a mark spawns so most of the hunters can get there in time? Do you actively do recruitment in PF, in MD and zones where hunts are? It's easy to say "We're donating 1 dollar to charity for every one dollar that you donate" when the advertisement is limited to 5 miles around your neighbourhood and not your entire state and claiming that you are doing a good deed.

If you truly cared for the community, you would support ideas like leve for hunts or pop items for NM in ff11 so that everyone has an equal fair shot at it. As of the last month, I had to force myself for the most part to do hunts because there were simple no other alternatives to get gear, I personally know 2 people who quit due to hunts and 2 others who are waiting for it to die down before coming back. But instead, hunts seem to get more popular every day. I am waiting to see how they further screw up hunts in 2.4. Maybe they will give coil equivalent gear without a lockout. Maybe then its time to cancel my sub.

It's supposed to be a hunt, parking your butt in zones doing nothing else isnt hunting. Nor throwing fits because some other group found a mark first and "pulled early" is hunting. <Face palm> <shake head> .