Ninja: Walk in shadow.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I think the only 3 possibilities it will use for cross-classing are PGL, ARC and MRD; some combination of them.

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They're gonna need some way to manage TP. Either Invigorate or some other source of damage to weave in with reduced or no TP cost. Right now the only TP-based classes that don't have Invigorate are the tanks, who both have alternate ways to manage TP.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

They're gonna need some way to manage TP. Either Invigorate or some other source of damage to weave in with reduced or no TP cost. Right now the only TP-based classes that don't have Invigorate are the tanks, who both have alternate ways to manage TP.

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Well if the datamined traits are anything to go by they have an inherently higher TP regeneration.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Roughly translated for people (they are traits):

ＤＥＸアップ (Lv8) - DEX up.
-> ＤＥＸを2上昇する - Increases DEX by 2.

落下ダメージ軽減 (Lv14) - Fall damage reduction.
-> 落下による被ダメージを軽減する - Reduces the damage caused by falling.

ＤＥＸアップII (Lv16) - DEX up II.
-> ＤＥＸを4上昇する - Increases DEX by 4.

ステルス効果アップ (LV20) - Stealth effect up.
-> ステルス中の移動速度低下を軽減する - Reduces the movement speed reduction when in stealth.

ＤＥＸアップIII (Lv24) - DEX up III.
-> ＤＥＸを6上昇する - Increases DEX by 6.

移動速度アップ (Lv28) - Movement speed up.
-> 自身の移動速度を上昇させる - Increases personal movement speed.

単体特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv32)- Single specialized poison buff effect up.
-> 単体特化毒Buff（猛毒）の与ダメージ上昇効果を20％に上昇する - Single specialized poison buff (Highly Toxic) increases physical damage by 20%.

TPリジェネ付与効果アップ (Lv36)- TP Regen effect up.
-> TPリジェネ付与によるＴＰ回復効果の効果量を上昇する。 - Grants increased effective recovery amount of TP regen.

複数特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv40) - Multiple specialized poison Buff effect up.
-> 複数特化毒Buffの与物理ダメージ上昇効果を10％に上昇する - Multiple specialized poison buff increases physical damage by 10%.

コンボB-1効果アップ (Lv44) - Combo B-1 effect up
-> コンボB-1の継続ダメージの威力を45に上昇する - Combo B-1 DoT increased to 45.

ナイフ投げPBAE効果アップ (Lv48) - Knife throwing PBAE (Player-based Area of Effect?) effect up.
-> ナイフ投げPBAEの威力を80に上昇する - Knife Throw PBAE power rises to 80.

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They obviously could change any of the traits as they're in development but as of now it's all we have to go on.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Well if the datamined traits are anything to go by they have an inherently higher TP regeneration.

They obviously could change any of the traits as they're in development but as of now it's all we have to go on.

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I'll tentatively take that. :p

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Originally Posted by dday3six

Classes/Jobs have varying INT stats, Ninja could have a higher INT stat. Cross-class skills are rarely as potent when not used by there originating disciple. Normally skills are modified by traits, but just overall less damage could function similarly. Furthermore, we don't rightly know if Ninja wouldn't be a step toward hybrid jobs which draw their damage output from not only attack power but also magic attack power. Going only from how the game works currently is thinking in a rather limited scope, and assumes no evolution down the line.

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Ninja would have to have an extremely high base INT for it to be worth it. And, cross-class skills only lack potency compared to the original class when the original class is high enough level for a modifying trait, but that's also primarily for buffs, not spells/skills. Aero is just as strong on Scholar as it is on White Mage. Blizzard is the same strength dps-wise on all mage classes. It just lacks the Umbral Ice buff on anything other than thm/blm.


Fracture is weaker on cross-class than on Warrior, but is also a dps loss for pretty much any melee DPS class that can use it (definitely is for dragoons, likely is for monks).

I'm not going to comment on the primary stat issue again, suffice to say, my opening post contains a source link to an official retraction from SE that says that they weren't ready to discuss the Rogue/Ninja primary stats, but Yoshida did mention strength originally.

As for the cross-class, secondary class to unlock Ninja, my assumption is either lancer or archer. And then both of them for as the cross-class skills. The reason? Ninjutsu magic looks somewhat lengthy to cast and prep and I think there may be a bit of overlap on puglist skills. Raging Strikes and Blood for Blood both have lengthier up times over Internal Release, so I feel that these abilities will end up being more valued for the ninja.


Now I want to go into some combat analysis and looking back at previous ninjas, in particular, I want to look at Hawkeye's ninja class from Seiken Densetsu 3. For some of you, you may know this game and for others, this particular game belongs to the Mana series as the third sequel game that has never been remade nor reached US or European shores. In Seiken Densetsu 3, there's a playable character named Hawkeye who starts off as a thief or member of the Navarre's Desert Bandits/Rogues. Eventually, Hawkeye can change his class to Ninja, Ranger and others. Focusing specifically on the ninja class, Hawkeye picked up key ninja spells like Fire, Water, Earth, and Lightning ninjutsu along with a shuriken spell. All of these spells, including the shuriken acted as debuffs as well as dealing damage. The debuffs themselves, are pretty interesting, as each one lowered a specific stat or passive stats like Evade and Hit rate, defense, attack, magic power and more. I speculate that FFXIV's Ninja's ninjutsu could follow the same sort of idea in that the spells cast - in addition to dealing damage - lower the enemy's ability in same way that Hawkeye's ninjutsu did. To be more specific, I'm guessing that the ninjutsu spells will lower secondary stats like Accuracy, Critical Hit Rate, Determination, etc. rather than primary stats like Virus does. This prevents overlap and allows the ninja to carve its own niche into the battle party, but I think that there may be limiting factors to this (either debuff timers are too short to cast multiple ninjutsu, or you're only allowed to have one ninjutsu debuff).

With that said, there are other factors to consider, such as the poisons in the rogue skills and what sort of role will they have? It's a pretty good guess to assume at least two damage over time abilities (Pug, Arc, Lnc all have at least two DOTs), but poisons may not be limited to damage over time and could provide other debuffs such as slow, or heavy. Something to think about.

Finally, in the most recent video showcasing ninja skills, we saw the ninja stealth up to a Ziz and land a backstab on the monster. The effect, post-backstab, is pretty interesting. Although it looks like a stun there's some small orange arcs of lightning that appear on the Ziz during the ninja's attack, I don't think this is a stun, but a temporary paralysis. As I recall, stun attacks have no graphical effects on the monsters, but paralysis does, and I think that's what we're seeing here. What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

ナイフ投げPBAE効果アップ (Lv48) - Knife throwing PBAE (Player-based Area of Effect?) effect up.
-> ナイフ投げPBAEの威力を80に上昇する - Knife Throw PBAE power rises to 80.

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Point-blank AoE

I see in that list a lot of DEX bonuses. I see Hawk's eye and a must have for CC skill here, maybe even Raging Strikes. If we were led to believe STR was the asset to focus on, looks like the above translation has proven that wrong.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

I see in that list a lot of DEX bonuses. I see Hawk's eye and a must have for CC skill here, maybe even Raging Strikes. If we were led to believe STR was the asset to focus on, looks like the above translation has proven that wrong.

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It hasn't "proven" anything other than that there are *developer traits* that boost DEX. Everything is subject to change until whatever deadline the developers set for getting data into patch 2.4.

Yeah to date all we know on STR/DEX is the following (I believe in this order):

Yoshi tells us to hold onto our melee (STR) DPS gear.
Patch includes a full suite of Rogue traits which have DEX on them (but are still in development).
Yoshi tells us he cannot say if they will use STR/DEX.
Yoshi tells us they may still change their mind last minute if it uses STR or DEX.

So it's entirely a 50/50 chance. Gear for both if you have the means and you want to prepare ahead of time.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

I see in that list a lot of DEX bonuses. I see Hawk's eye and a must have for CC skill here, maybe even Raging Strikes. If we were led to believe STR was the asset to focus on, looks like the above translation has proven that wrong.

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It's not even known for certain that all of those traits are actually for rogue, and because it's all still in development, it could end up being that none of those traits make it through (with the exception of the falling damage reduction, since that's the only one that's already been confirmed by Yoshi).

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Originally Posted by YanderePrincess

since that's the only one that's already been confirmed by Yoshi.

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Movement speed has also been confirmed as have poison effects being generated by combos I believe.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Movement speed has also been confirmed as have poison effects being generated by combos I believe.

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Poison effects =/= traits for poison. And I didn't see any movement speed traits except the one reducing the penalty while stealthed, but I might have missed something.

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Originally Posted by YanderePrincess

Poison effects =/= traits for poison. And I didn't see any movement speed traits except the one reducing the penalty while stealthed, but I might have missed something.

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移動速度アップ (Lv28) - Movement speed up.
-> 自身の移動速度を上昇させる - Increases personal movement speed.

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And:

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コンボB-1効果アップ (Lv44) - Combo B-1 effect up
-> コンボB-1の継続ダメージの威力を45に上昇する - Combo B-1 DoT increased to 45.

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Just shows that the class action that leads to the combo has plans on being increased via traits. That hints that the class action could be cross-classable.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

And:

Just shows that the class action that leads to the combo has plans on being increased via traits. That hints that the class action could be cross-classable.

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Having a trait enhancing it really tells you nothing about whether or not it can be cross-classed. Lots of things that can't be cross-classed still have traits enhancing them, such as Fire I/Fire III with the Firestarter trait, or Thunder I/II/III and the Thundercloud trait.

And okay, I had missed the movespeed one, so there's two traits that have been specifically confirmed by Yoshi. While it's reasonable to believe there will be traits affecting poison, we only know they'll -have- poisons, not that there will be any actual traits affecting the poisons.

My point still stands.

I'd really like a confirmation on what gear/stats they use. If its DEX then so be it but i think NIN picking up BRD gear sounds silly. Imagine NIN wearing the Amon gear. A lot of the DEX gear is flamboyant as to wear it make more since if NIN was wearing more along the MNK line.

I personally believe that the starting class will have the be Thamaturge for all the elemental attacks

I'm so ready! Got stuff for a relic, zenith, Novus ready. Getting Atma still, I just wish they would say what stats ninja will use so I can buy some Sol gear w/ sands from hunts. Anything else I should do in preparation?

Gamescom begins today and that means that we'll undoubtedly see and hear more about the ninja and maybe even the release date of patch 2.4. There should be quite a bit of new information coming in the next few days so stay tuned to this thread and I'll post as soon I hear some information (or someone can beat me to it).

The one argument against a whole new gear set for Ninja for me is that, where does it stop? Our gear sets right now are Fending, Healing, Striking, Maiming, Aiming, and Casting. All which serve a purpose for a different type of role/look. Maiming for heavy armored DPS and Striking for light armored DPS. If SE is making a new gear set for many jobs, then imagine in the future where we will have double the amount of class/jobs and just more gear sets clogging up the treasure chests, creating an even lesser chance the item you are seeking will drop. With how it is set up now, you have a 1/5 chance that one of the two chests will drop something in your job's favor.

I can't say I am right or wrong till we get an official answer, but I am going on a gamble that Striking gear will be what Ninjas use. Like someone in here said, if DEX was added and no new armor pieces to cater to this one job, then they are put into the sets that BRD right now where that well...don't really match. Compare the type of gear you see come from Aiming and Striking. Most gear Ninja fits more into Striking. I'd be mad if I had to wear the BRD armor from CT1 and not the cool Fuma set that MNK wear. Not to mention, we already have jobs that share the same loot (PLD/WAR = Fending, BLM/SMN = Casting). Just from how it is set up currently, it just makes more sense to throw jobs into a category. Lets say Dark Knight gets released and it is a DPS. Well it is heavily armored and uses a slow, two-handed weapon. It would likely be placed next to DRG in Maiming gear. Lets not forget that Musketeer isn't too far either and it would make a lot of sense for it to be DEX based alongside BRD since both are ranged DPS. If DEX is on NIN, you expect three jobs to be placed in one? Sorry I am not buying it.

Ninjas may use poisons and mudra, but they do use a melee weapon at close range and strike. Everything to me says STR based solely on how the descriptions of the stats are explained. Sure it can be switched, but I ask, why does it need to be changed? Why put more effort to change how things are just to make Ninja more comparable to other MMO's that use DEX? Its nice and simple, STR for close range weapons, and DEX for ranged weapons. Changing things around because of one job can be confusing and can get needlessly complex in the future.

Like I said, my guess is only good as anyone else's. The way Yoshi-P has been saying things then retracting them, then saying its possible again is sketchy and can be interpreted in many ways.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

*snip*

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The main issue I see with Strength for Rogue and Ninja is that then 3 jobs share accessories. In the case of Soldiery, Gloam now holds more value being able to be used across 3 jobs. With Slaying/Maiming/Striking now 3 jobs are competing for gear.

From a visual prospective I easily see Ninja having more in common with Monk then Bard. Particularly the Fuma set. However that can easily be remedied by just using some of the existing Art assets as Ninja gear, but with Dex as the main stat. Also the Aiming accessories could easily be renamed to something like Agility while Aiming could remain on the armor to denote being used by ranged dps.

While in the future as more jobs are added I can readily see how the current gear setup and distribution would need to be altered. However at present, Ninja using Dex balances gear layout.

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Originally Posted by dday3six

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It doesn't matter. More than likely the most you will be competing with is two people, unless your parties consist of nothing but DRG, MNK, and NIN. You can have 100 jobs that use those accessories, but doesn't matter when you have four DPS in your party (normal setup). Can have 2 BRD and 2 NIN all lotting against each other also if they were on DEX.

Ninja will benefit from str and dex allowing. Str for physical and dex for magic/ranged.

DEX is for physical attacks doesn't effect magic.

Not to mention I doubt they will make a job focus on two stats when everyone else only has to focus on one primary stat.

Ninja will be STR its pretty easy to see the assumptions of why, the second class they have already developed, Musketeer will be DEX, which makes much more sense than ninja.

I would say STR but didnt recent translation reflect DEX?

We get any news on 2.4 release yet?

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

Ninja will be STR its pretty easy to see the assumptions of why, the second class they have already developed, Musketeer will be DEX, which makes much more sense than ninja.

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Musketeer is already developed?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Snip.

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Everything in this post is 100% correct in every single way.

So anyone find out at Gamescom if Ninja is using STR gear, specifically Monk STR gear?

I believe a lot of people may have seen this already, for those who didn't:
http://i.imgur.com/BuI12aH.png

Currently DPS are:

INT x2 [BLM and SMN]
STR x2 [DRG and MNK]
DEX x1 [BRD]

Ninja being DEX we would have 2 DPS on each Stat, which would make sense, sadly like said it's subjected to DEV changes.

Description of DEX:

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Affects physical ranged damage, as well as parry and block rates.

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Description can always be adjusted, despite some Ninja skills that seem to be ranged, not all of them are.

any idea when they planing to get this update rolling?

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Originally Posted by Jediman

any idea when they planing to get this update rolling?

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2.3 was last month,so in october maybe? As all big patches are more or less 4 months apart from each other.

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Originally Posted by Anteriss

2.3 was last month,so in october maybe? As all big patches are more or less 4 months apart from each other.

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didn't they say ninja and rogue class coming on patch 2.3 tho?

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Originally Posted by Jediman

didn't they say ninja and rogue class coming on patch 2.3 tho?

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no they said they would be in 2.4

Even though Ninja will use shuriken in some of their actions, I'm thinking that even some of the katana actions will be "ranged." From what it looks like there are a lot of jumping type attacks. Maybe they are still seeing it as ranged because you are launching yourself.

Rogue/Ninja seems to have features in style of play of both Pugilist/Monk and Lancer/Dragoon. Nevertheless Rogues/Ninjas won't rely that much on position in battlefield as the latter two but more in how do they manage to use the proper commands for the Ninjitsu techniques in terms of time and order of execution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATv5-Wg7tGE

Ninja skills seem to include 3 signs that are quick off-GCD, and an execution skill that changes icon depending on signs weaved and has ~30s CD.

Enjoy.

3 Mudra as of this video and an activate button to press after you finish entering mudra that will then go on CD, pass or fail you, failing having some interesting effects.(lol)

Mudra + Activate = Separate GCD after pass or fail.
Mudra is OGCD (of course) and have a very very short CD about as long as the animation before you hit the activate button.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I believe a lot of people may have seen this already, for those who didn't:
http://i.imgur.com/BuI12aH.png

Currently DPS are:

INT x2 [BLM and SMN]
STR x2 [DRG and MNK]
DEX x1 [BRD]

Ninja being DEX we would have 2 DPS on each Stat, which would make sense, sadly like said it's subjected to DEV changes.

Description of DEX:



Description can always be adjusted, despite some Ninja skills that seem to be ranged, not all of them are.

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Then Musketeer comes around who is an actual ranged DPS that would use DEX and break this so called balance again. I highly doubt SE is making NIN a DEX based class simply because it doesn't make things even across the board at this moment. Not to mention you cannot take those traits seriously because even the developers said themselves after this was released that they were testing many things out.